[iAdmin]

I just picked up the wifey a Toshiba 15" 2.0 celeron, 30 gig, DVD-CDRW combo drive (and free printer) for $699 after rebate at Best Buys. I had extra 2100DDR ram sticks from work (where we upgrade all our powerbooks) and upped her laptop to a full 1 gig of ram..

I will say this, that machine is sure sweeet. Its 2 times faster than my 12" powerbook in unix stuff like rendering and it is 40% faster encoding video for DVD (I use a firewire card and external firewire dvd-r)...

Compared to my 12"/640MB/60Gig/SuperDrive/3 year applecare, I can get about 4 of these machines for what I got the 12" for.

Well, what I should be saying is apple needs something to compete in this price-point.

But it still doesn't run OSX.. I will probably install FreeBSD on it in addition to XP. Right now,I mainly run CYGWIN and a X-window client so I don't deal with XP much. Heck, I control my PB from it using cygwin and I run FINK gnome-sessions from it.

-iadmin

[Eug]

We got the P4 version of that machine. It's quite large and heavy, has integrated graphics, and has no Firewire. Plus I'm told it has crappy battery life. But hey it was cheap. It's for one of the secretaries and she's happy with it.

I'll stick with my (much more expensive) TiBook.

As for the pricepoint thing... What competes against it is the iBook. And I prefer the iBook, even though I hate G3s. The iBook will definitely be slower, but overall it's a much better and well-thought out machine.

[Riemann Zeta]

In raw GHz, any PC will kick the sh*t out of a Mac. However, the downfall of most PC laptops is that they are really not laptops per se, they are mobile desktops. Most PC laptops (especially budget laptops) use desktop CPUs, etc... Hence, they are huge (5+ kg) and have short battery life (my old Dell had a Pentium 3-M 1 GHz chip and the battery life still sucked). Also, most PC laptops have--shudder--integrated video RAM. There are some notable exceptions, however. For example, the Centrino chip (Pentium-M) is a fabulous CPU, architecturally it is far superior to the Pentium 4 and is relatively current thrifty, giving machines decent battery life.

[Eug]

Hence, they are huge (5+ kg)

11 lbs? Uh no.

I believe the Toshiba he's talking about is under 7 lbs, although it's mostly plastic.

[Uisce]

I'm bored.

[Mastrap]

You're comparing a sub notebook to a desktop replacement. What do you expect?

[Appleman]

Originally posted by Uisce:
I'm bored.

Me 2

[iWrite]

Just wait until it starts picking up viruses.

Trust me, I know. I rid myself of my two Titaniums in anticipation of the never-forthcoming-for-some-reason "NEW" 15-inch Powerbook and I'm using the spouse's Sony VAIO.

Two weeks into it and all of the flaws of Windows, along with the inherent ugliness, are grating on my nerves.

Plus, I'm bombarded with a zillion emails that have viruses, including the "SoBigF" virus, and it's a pain the *ss to have to worry about virus problems again.

I truly despise it at this point.

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by iWrite:
Just wait until it starts picking up viruses.

Trust me, I know. I rid myself of my two Titaniums in anticipation of the never-forthcoming-for-some-reason "NEW" 15-inch Powerbook and I'm using the spouse's Sony VAIO.

Two weeks into it and all of the flaws of Windows, along with the inherent ugliness, are grating on my nerves.

Plus, I'm bombarded with a zillion emails that have viruses, including the "SoBigF" virus, and it's a pain the *ss to have to worry about virus problems again.

I truly despise it at this point.

YAY!!!!!

I was hoping you'd see the light eventually iWrite

Hardware "inferiority" aside... once you deal with some of those WONDERFUL Windows issues (the new worms wreaked a small amount of havoc here at the office for a couple days until we were able to completely contain/patch everyone).

I remember not too long ago you were hating on Apple pretty hard Good to see you've come back to realize that there are GreaterEvils (tm) in the world.

[clf8]

Originally posted by iWrite:
I truly despise it at this point.

I'm not pickin on you iWrite, just a little

You seemed to be espousing your wife's laptop a couple of weeks back. Did the Windows world finally get the best of you and piss you off?

To be more than just a , if you threw on a Linux distro, do you think it would be a comparable box? Would you still get decent battery life, sleep, and be able to do what you need to box for?

[Eug Wanker]

You seemed to be espousing your wife's laptop a couple of weeks back.

iWrite and another woman. Hmm....

iWrite, it sounds like you're not running a proper firewall and virus checker, and/or maybe opening emails you should not be. True?

[s0litude]

What's up everyone? Well, I love my Powerbook 15 and its my baby, but since we're talking about PC's check this one out:

http://www.alienware.com/system_page...1m_sentia.aspx

It uses the centrino... The ads in magazines show they will incorporate DVD R and all that but the website doesn't provide it...other than that its got a lot of the stylings of a powerbook. Hey, imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

[Sandbaggins]

Innards aside, that Alienware laptop is the ugliest I've seen from that company. Doesn't come close to the Als .

[buddy1065]

Wow. Even has a little alien head on it. X files Moulder would be proud, yes?

It's thick, its vibrant, putrid green, it weighs over 9 Lbs...the Area 51-M Extreme. Get yours before they are all gone.

http://www.alienware.com/Configurato...de=SKU-EXTREME

Which of you would not be ashamed to carry that thing in public?

[jsnyder]

Originally posted by Sandbaggins:
Innards aside, that Alienware laptop is the ugliest I've seen from that company. Doesn't come close to the Als .

Yeah, in one sense there's a "cool" factor to it. Like a lan party/case mod "cool" factor. But on the other hand theres the i-wouldn't-want-to-be-seen-in-public-with-it factor. I'd be embarrassed to whip that out on campus in one of the WiFi hotspots. Apple hardware has a much more simple and elegant appearance.

I guess alienware has its market pretty much nailed with their current stylings.

[Shaddim]

Does it have to be... green? Damn, that's ugly. Plus, it's almost 10lbs! That's hardly a "portable".

Nice specs, though. Would make a good Debian machine.

[slider]

Originally posted by iWrite:
Just wait until it starts picking up viruses.

Trust me, I know. I rid myself of my two Titaniums in anticipation of the never-forthcoming-for-some-reason "NEW" 15-inch Powerbook and I'm using the spouse's Sony VAIO.

Two weeks into it and all of the flaws of Windows, along with the inherent ugliness, are grating on my nerves.

Plus, I'm bombarded with a zillion emails that have viruses, including the "SoBigF" virus, and it's a pain the *ss to have to worry about virus problems again.

I truly despise it at this point.

Wow, iWrite, I read that post. Two weeks, huh, that says a lot right there. It really is all about the OS in the end.

[j0nkatz]

Yeah, I'd much rather have my 17" PB and yes the Alien ware machines do come in multiple colors.

Alienware caters to the gaming crowd and for this they excel.

Did I say I'd still rather have my 17" PB?

[buffalolee]

I have used Windows for a long time, and the two things are I hate the most are:

1. Viruses. I have to constantly worry about them.

2. Adware / Spyware. Wait a few weeks and you will notice Gator or some other form of spyware hiddenly installed on your computer.

There is a reason why Mac's do not have anti-spyware software. I have been trouble free with my Mac for 6+ months, and I am so happy about computing. Never had to fix a darn problem.

[chabig]

Compared to my 12"/640MB/60Gig/SuperDrive/3 year applecare, I can get about 4 of these machines for what I got the 12" for.

Not a fair comparison. You're comparing a special price (with rebates) on the Toshiba against the original full retail price of a machine you probably bought 7-8 months ago. Do this comparison again in a few weeks after the 12" Powerbooks get revved. The 867 model will probably get cheaper. Heck, you can buy a new 12" Powerbook with Superdrive for $1599 even today--that's barely more than twice the price of the Toshiba, not four times.

Chris

[PoisonTooth]

Originally posted by Riemann Zeta:
In raw GHz, any PC will kick the sh*t out of a Mac. However, the downfall of most PC laptops is that they are really not laptops per se, they are mobile desktops. Most PC laptops (especially budget laptops) use desktop CPUs, etc... Hence, they are huge (5+ kg) and have short battery life (my old Dell had a Pentium 3-M 1 GHz chip and the battery life still sucked). Also, most PC laptops have--shudder--integrated video RAM. There are some notable exceptions, however. For example, the Centrino chip (Pentium-M) is a fabulous CPU, architecturally it is far superior to the Pentium 4 and is relatively current thrifty, giving machines decent battery life.

Man, get a clue. Educate yourself some more about Centrino-based notebooks, then come and talk to me.

[PoisonTooth]

Originally posted by buffalolee:
I have used Windows for a long time, and the two things are I hate the most are:

1. Viruses. I have to constantly worry about them.

2. Adware / Spyware. Wait a few weeks and you will notice Gator or some other form of spyware hiddenly installed on your computer.

There is a reason why Mac's do not have anti-spyware software. I have been trouble free with my Mac for 6+ months, and I am so happy about computing. Never had to fix a darn problem.

Huh. Must be a user knowledge thing, because I've used Windows for nearly all of my professional computing life (I had various PowerBooks for about 8 months as well), and never once -- not a single time -- was I ever hit by a virus or my machine overrun with spyware.

If you're at least *minimally* diligent about such things, the upkeep is nowhere near as arduous as you make it out to be.

[AssassyN]

To address the Alienware comments above, first off, NO Alienware uses a Centrino; they ALL use DESKTOP Pentium4 chips for the fastest performance and highest battery drain.

Second, they styling is perfectly described above by jsnyder...I own an Alienware Area 51m (picked it up barely used from a guy for like 75% off retail) and use it for gaming/LAN parties at college, that's really it's only use aside from the occasional Windows-only app. and using it as a music jukebox. But for LAN parites, it's a sweet machine that fits right in, however, at a hotspot on campus, I'd ALWAYS take my 12" PB over the Alienware. The Alienware is one amazingly fast notebook, but it's not for everything.

[stevesnj]

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:

If you're at least *minimally* diligent about such things, the upkeep is nowhere near as arduous as you make it out to be.

Well your one of the few that may keep up-to-date on all patches and viruses...but it gets tireing after a while...the once a month security update from Apple is fine with me but once a day almost from MS is too much.

But Microsoft seems to be enabling Automatic updates which will not be an option at all which means MS will apply patches if you want them or not...hmm...seems I thought the year is 2003 not 1984....maybe this is another reason to buy a Mac???

http://news.com.com/2100-1009_3-5066612.html?tag=cd_mh

[nekura]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
To address the Alienware comments above, first off, NO Alienware uses a Centrino; they ALL use DESKTOP Pentium4 chips for the fastest performance and highest battery drain.

But all of the laptops on this page claim to have Intel� Centrino Technology and Intel� Pentium-M Processors.

[JasonQG]

Originally posted by nekura:
But all of the laptops on this page claim to have Intel� Centrino Technology and Intel� Pentium-M Processors.

That's because despite lower clock speeds, the Centrino actually outperforms the Pentium 4. It's quite a chip. If they had become affordable sooner, I probably would have passed on the PB.

[iWrite]

Huge Eug Wanker (Like that, did ya? )

You made me laugh with your little emoticon!

clf8

Think the opposite sex and you've got it right.

Anyway, I'm just waiting for a Powerbook update (whistles aimlessly) so that I can blow off this piece of crap notebook.

I HATE IT.

It doesn't matter if it runs Linux or not -- I'd still hate it.

Anyway, have a good one, all!

[Alpha-sphere]

Just admit it. Apple is lagging behind on raw MHz power. There are PC laptops just as light as a 15" powerbook with much more power.

Even if the powerbooks get a 1,4 MHz G4 it's still no competition for the Centrino (Pentium-M) CPU.

[chabig]

Apple is lagging behind on raw MHz power.

Is this a real unit of measurement, like foot-pounds? If so, Apple has really lost the battle, because Intel chips usually run at high MHz and consume lots of power, the product of the two will exceed anything Apple can offer...

Seriously, though. There is no such thing as MHz power. I used to have a four cylinder Toyata Camry that was faster in overdrive than a Corvette in first gear. Using RPM as an measure of speed, the Corvette should have been much faster. There's more to speed than RPM or MHz alone.

Chris

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by Alpha-sphere:
Just admit it. Apple is lagging behind on raw MHz power. There are PC laptops just as light as a 15" powerbook with much more power.

Even if the powerbooks get a 1,4 MHz G4 it's still no competition for the Centrino (Pentium-M) CPU.

This is true, but not nearly as bleak as you describe.

First, there is maybe one (Thinkpad T40) PC laptop that is AS LIGHT OR LIGHTER than a 15" 1Ghz with "much" more power... and it's not even that much more.

I've put my powerbook right next to an Inspiron 8500 w/ a 2.3Ghz P4-M and guess what? The Inspiron IS faster... but not THAT much. The difference is, I would compare, about the same as between my machine and a 12" PB... noticeable but marginal.

I tested a few things, no "numbers" but subjective impressions (I was just kind of playing with it)...

The Inspiron handled disk intensive stuff (copying large files, etc) MUCH better... it also had a 5400rpm hitachi drive.

My PB smoked it in photoshop (of course) even with the largest files... and yes, the Inspiron was upgraded to a full 1Gb of RAM (matched my Ti).

Gaming they were about even on everything except Sim City 4 (which is notoriously poor porting work) and MOH:AA (good port, but just a little sluggish on the Ti) where the Inspiron gained an edge.

This machine probably wasn't as fast as the newest Centrinos... but I can't imagine they're THAT much faster.

So subjectively, in the laptop price/performance/features market (the Inspiron lacked a DVD-R and was only $100 less than my Ti) Apple is still doing REALLY well. Quite a few friends of mine in the CoC @ Georgia Tech agree, as they've been buying the Ti's (and now the 12" Little Al) like it's going out of style ever since Jaguar was released.

[SEkker]

I thought the advantages of the centrino was chip cost and energy consumption. The P4 @ 2.4 GHz is about the same as the 1.6GHz centrino.

The biggest issue is the future -- even if G4 chips are not behind intel (which they are, IMHO), I cannot see the G4 going beyond 2 GHz. While the Centrino is brand new, presumably with lots of headroom ahead.

Apple needs to get the G5 into their notebooks or in 2 years the laptops will be experiencing the same large gap in speed the desktops just went thru.

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by SEkker:
I thought the advantages of the centrino was chip cost and energy consumption. The P4 @ 2.4 GHz is about the same as the 1.6GHz centrino.

The biggest issue is the future -- even if G4 chips are not behind intel (which they are, IMHO), I cannot see the G4 going beyond 2 GHz. While the Centrino is brand new, presumably with lots of headroom ahead.

Apple needs to get the G5 into their notebooks or in 2 years the laptops will be experiencing the same large gap in speed the desktops just went thru.

I agree wholeheartedly...

My point was aimed at the poster above me who stated that there were "just as thin/light PC notebooks that were much, much more powerful" and that's simply not true.

I agree, the sooner w/ the g5 in laptops the better just to keep up with emerging PC tech. But RIGHT NOW Apple isn't in too bad a spot.