[Cody Dawg]

Link.

Am I the only one that thinks that there is something VERY wrong with this picture? MILLIONS (estimates are 40 million) of Americans cannot afford health insurance or do not have health care and now U.S. taxpayers are going to be footing the bill for illegal aliens to have access to FREE health care.

This is just another example of Bush caring more about people south of the border than our own countrymen.

First he opens up the borders between ourselves and Mexico and says that they are welcome to come here and work and now they get free health care.

What is WRONG with this picture?

[Randman]

You should join the minutemen.

[BlueSky]

You voted for the idiot. Now suck it up and LIKE it. You are not qualified to complain.

[typoon]

Yes this is VERY WRONG!!! Paying hospitals to give healthcare to ILLEGAL immagrants. WTF!!!!! GRRRRR

[typoon]

Originally Posted by Bluesky

You voted for the idiot. Now suck it up and LIKE it. You are not qualified to complain.

Are we not allowed to complain about the stupid things our leaders do? Doesn't matter what party they are from.

[SVass]

Everyone who buys a foreign car, shops at Walmart, or buys a computer buys through companies that pay taxes to other governments who pay for health care for their citizens. Only US companies like General Motors directly charge their customers for the employee health care. It was $1500 a car for GM retirees, last I read. So if you don't want to pay for the health care of others, buy american. sam

[PacHead]

The undesirable criminals need to go.

Give them the boot, and send the illegals back to their wonderful points of origin, wherever that may be.

Send the minutemen to New York, where they could probably round up thousands of undesirables in a mere few minutes. As a matter of fact, every state should have their own minutemen, as the illegals have spread to everywhere like a cancer. The authorities obviously do not care to do their jobs.

Bush should never have spoken out against the minutemen. Those people need to be kicked out. We don't need any more criminals, not to mention terrorists and other filth that are sneaking in.

Give them free health care ? The only care they should get is a holding cell, a one way ticket and a swift kick in the butt.

[RIRedinPA]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Link.

Am I the only one that thinks that there is something VERY wrong with this picture? MILLIONS (estimates are 40 million) of Americans cannot afford health insurance or do not have health care and now U.S. taxpayers are going to be footing the bill for illegal aliens to have access to FREE health care.

This is just another example of Bush caring more about people south of the border than our own countrymen.

First he opens up the borders between ourselves and Mexico and says that they are welcome to come here and work and now they get free health care.

What is WRONG with this picture?

I've always wondered why businesses or the government should pay for healthcare. I would rather my company give me the money it spends on my health benefits and let me (and say the other 80 million or so working Americans) purchase our own. I would imagine market forces would take control and prices would drop. Purchasing groups would form and they would act as middle men between HMOs and the individual - I mean my company leverages its healthcare negotiation on 400 employees and the fact that they don't want to pay a dime more than they have to for minimum coverage. I'd rather be in a group that can negotiate with 100s of thousands of members and getting the lowest price on the best coverage. Plus it is portable, I quit my job or worse get laid off the health care follows me regardless.

These are just random thoughts and you can poke a million holes in the argument as it but I think Bush et al are fighting the wrong fight. Personalize health care, company's would save a ton of money allowing for investments in the company, better pay, other perks, what not. Those that are greedy and keep the savings for themselves will soon find their best and brightest migrating to those who don't. The government saves a ton of cash which can be diverted to shoring up medicare/caid, the real financial burden on our government and the one in danger of collapsing and maybe use some of those savings to help out the folks without health care.

You can even give a tax break for it.

As for the migrant workers, hola guest worker, you want health care, join a purchasing group.

As for the original topic, yeah, it makes little sense to burden us with paying for foreign workers health bennies when so many Americans go without. Isn't that some weird form of socialism?

[SVass]

The Bush administration announced on Monday that it would start paying hospitals and doctors for providing emergency care to illegal immigrants.

I guess that you would prefer when they bring you to the emergency room unconscious from an auto wreck or a heart attack, they insist that you fill out all of the forms and show your insurance card before they do anything. Emergency treatment centers complain that they must bear the cost and asked for federal aid for treatment of undocumented aliens. sam

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by SVass

The Bush administration announced on Monday that it would start paying hospitals and doctors for providing emergency care to illegal immigrants.

I guess that you would prefer when they bring you to the emergency room unconscious from an auto wreck or a heart attack, they insist that you fill out all of the forms and show your insurance card before they do anything. Emergency treatment centers complain that they must bear the cost and asked for federal aid for treatment of undocumented aliens. sam

That is why they should be deported. If there are no illegals, nobody would have to worry about emergency care for them or any of the other ridiculous benefits they receive.

If an illegal is in the country and they seek emergency care, that is their problem.

[RAILhead]

Say it with me, everyone:
EMERGENCY CARE
EMERGENCY CARE
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E - M - E - R - G - E - N - C - Y

As much as I dislike illegals and such -- and I'm from South Texas so I actually know something about this, thanks -- I wouldn't want any of them to be denied EMERGENCY care in a hospital.

Maury
(EMERGENCY CARE)

[PacHead]

What exactly is defined as emergency care ?

Is giving birth emergency care ?

In that case great, now the illegal person has spawned another cost for US taxpayers, by giving birth, and adding somebody else to our population that we must pay for. Freeloaders are what they are.

[sideus]

United States of Mexicano.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Say it with me, everyone:
EMERGENCY CARE
EMERGENCY CARE
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E - M - E - R - G - E - N - C - Y

EMERGENCYCARE.

That was fun. Can we do another word now?

[typoon]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Say it with me, everyone:
EMERGENCY CARE
EMERGENCY CARE
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E-M-E-R-G-E-N-C-Y C-A-R-E
E - M - E - R - G - E - N - C - Y

As much as I dislike illegals and such -- and I'm from South Texas so I actually know something about this, thanks -- I wouldn't want any of them to be denied EMERGENCY care in a hospital.

Maury
(EMERGENCY CARE)

That's all well and good but why should we have to pay for this?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Wow! I don't often find myself in agreement with both SVass and RailHead, but yes, emergency care isn't quite the same thing as providing free health care to illegals.

For one thing, it was already illegal for emergency rooms to turn patients in need away. That includes illegal immigrants. That means their health care was already being paid for by someone. The only question here was whether that cost should be borne by the unlucky hospital and passed on to other users of that particular hospital, or whether it could be passed on to Medicare so the risk could be spread wider. Given that immigration is a national issue under the Constitution, it makes sense to me to treat this as a national issue, not just one affecting mostly border states.

As long as this doesn't become an incentive to illegally emigrate (unlikely, given that this is emergency care), then I don't see a particular problem. It is just being realistic given that illegal immigration is a problem that can't be wished away with a wave of a wand. And similarly, I wouldn't expect Mexican hospitals to let travelling Americans die if any show up without insurance in their hospitals' emergency rooms.

And notice the thread title is misleading. Nothing is being given to illegals that doesn't also go to similarly-situated citizens. If you show up in an emergency room, you get treated by law whether or not you can pay. This is purely an accounting issue between the hospitals who have to provide that service and the government.

[alphasubzero949]

Great. Now to just give them all driver licenses. Oh wait...

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Bluesky

EMERGENCYCARE.

That was fun. Can we do another word now?

Let's do "IWANTTOGOHOMEBECAUSEIHAVEAMIGRAINEANDIDONTFEELLIK ESTAYINGATWORKANYWAY"

I'll start....

IWANTTOGOHOMEBECAUSEIHAVEAMIGRAINEANDIDONTFEELLIKE STAYINGATWORKANYWAY
IWANTTOGOHOMEBECAUSEIHAVEAMIGRAINEANDIDONTFEELLIKE STAYINGATWORKANYWAY
IWANTTOGOHOMEBECAUSEIHAVEAMIGRAINEANDIDONTFEELLIKE STAYINGATWORKANYWAY
IWANTTOGOHOMEBECAUSEIHAVEAMIGRAINEANDIDONTFEELLIKE STAYINGATWORKANYWAY
IWANTTOGOHOMEBECAUSEIHAVEAMIGRAINEANDIDONTFEELLIKE STAYINGATWORKANYWAY
IWANTTOGOHOMEBECAUSEIHAVEAMIGRAINEANDIDONTFEELLIKE STAYINGATWORKANYWAY



Maury

[SVass]

Let me suggest that another way to save the money would be to give Texas and Arizona back to Mexico. Senator Kyl proposed the payments. (We could then recount the remaining electoral votes.)

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by SVass

Let me suggest that another way to save the money would be to give Texas and Arizona back to Mexico. Senator Kyl proposed the payments. (We could then recount the remaining electoral votes.)

Here's another suggestion. Kick the illegal mexicans (and anybody else for that matter) out of those places. Mexico has no right to those places, and we'll kick their ass again, if they ever get any ideas.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Here's another suggestion. Kick the illegal mexicans (and anybody else for that matter) out of those places. Mexico has no right to those places, and we'll kick their ass again, if they ever get any ideas.

Did the US ever have a right to those places as well? I mean, didn't we take them from Mexico at one point?

I am not necessarily disagreeing with your point about removing illegals, I am just just curious about the logic you use to justify your point.

[sideus]

Instead of the hospitals billing the government, how about they bill the congressmen for these costs since congress refuses to do anything about the borders.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Did the US ever have a right to those places as well? I mean, didn't we take them from Mexico at one point?

We bought it. We own it.

1848

The Guadalupe-Hidalgo Treaty is signed, marking the end of the Mexican War. For $15,000, the Republic of Mexico agrees to give the United States 525,000 square miles of land. Included in the purchase are most of Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, California, Colorado, Utah and Nevada. Through this treaty, approximately 78,000 residents of the purchased land become U.S. citizens.
1853

The United States and Mexico reach an agreement known as the Gadsden Purchase. Desperate for land that would help the government build a transcontinental railroad, the U.S. persuades Mexico to sell approximately 30,000 square miles for a price of $10 million. Included in the deal is Arizona and New Mexico south of the Gila River. The Gadsden Purchase would become very unpopular in Mexico, whose citizens were not eager to give up this land.

[Cody Dawg]

Are we not allowed to complain about the stupid things our leaders do? Doesn't matter what party they are from.

GREAT comment, as usual, from typhoon.



I don't care if it is "emergency care" or not! IF THEY GO TO AN EMERGENCY ROOM THEN IT IS EMERGENCY CARE...let me tell you something: THEY GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM FOR *EVERYTHING*! That means a common cold with coughing and fever to appendicitis.

Yes, that's right. They don't HAVE doctors so they go to the hospital. They go for everything.

Now, here's the thing: I am a compassionate person and I don't want to deprive anyone of medical care, BUT...

WHY DOESN'T OUR OWN GOVERNMENT DO THE SAME FOR ***UNITED STATES CITIZENS?***



Our own citizens are suffering and don't have that kind of help! So, the average uninsured Joe is going to the emergency room and being turned away from help and care and told to go see his own family doctor while the ILLEGAL ALIEN will be brought in for care because the hospital knows they'll get paid.

That's disgusting.

[Cody Dawg]

Also, I want to hear what Millenium and ThinkInsane have to say about this.

[Cody Dawg]

Oh, and one other thing?

American citizens are being threatened with the prospect of no social security when they become old and infirm and want the money back that they have paid into a system all of their lives...

All while the United States government is GIVING A BILLION DOLLARS AWAY TO ILLEGAL ALIENS - MANY OF THEM CRIMINALS - ALL OF THEM HERE ILLEGALLY.

DISGUSTING.

It really is sickening.

[Secret__Police]

Originally Posted by typoon

That's all well and good but why should we have to pay for this?

I'm with you buddy. Let'em die in the streets

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, and one other thing?

American citizens are being threatened with the prospect of no social security when they become old and infirm and want the money back that they have paid into a system all of their lives...

All while the United States government is GIVING A BILLION DOLLARS AWAY TO ILLEGAL ALIENS - MANY OF THEM CRIMINALS - ALL OF THEM HERE ILLEGALLY.

DISGUSTING.

It really is sickening.

George Bush(Texas) and the Republicans in Congress are claiming that Social Security will have no money. (PS Bush wants to give seniors 80 cents on the dollar instead of the 70 cents they would get if it becomes "bankrupt" per his projections.) Senator Kyl (Repulican-Arizona) added the emergency room payments to the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill.

By the way, this argument has gone on before. Virtually, everyone here is a descendant of an illegal alien as we took this land away from its original owners by force. Contracts to legalize illegal actions signed under threat of force are normally not enforceable in a court of law.

I agree with Simey in that our government, either federal or local, should pay for emergency care. sam

[Cody Dawg]

Yeah? Fine. Then you and Simey and all the others should voluntarily offer to help YOUR FELLOW UNINSURED AMERICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS.



I have insurance. I pay $600 a month out of pocket for it - which is matched by the company for a total of $1240 PER MONTH.

My deductible is $100 for a hospital ER visit - up to $1500 per year.

An overnight stay is $500 co-pay up to $1500.

Office visit is $25. Specialty visit is $50. Out-patient procedure is $250 co-pay.

Our insurance company is United Healthcare. I am very grateful for health insurance, let me tell you. There was a time when I did not have it because I was between jobs (college years) and I didn't use the COBRA option because I couldn't afford it.

But, I hear over and over again about how parents cannot bring their children in for routine medical exams and health help because they are uninsured and guess what? The hospitals sock it to the uninsured - it's been proven over and over again. Why? Because they can.

This bit about inviting illegals in from the south by just letting them come in across the border without a hassle, then locking out everyone else in the world or subjecting them to retina scans and background checks (think what you'll go through if you're a Palestinian?) and then, not only saying to the Mexicans, "Come on in! Uncle Sam wants you to move on in here! Heck, we're even going to give you free health care in our country," is a load of crap.



Like I said, if you think that illegals should get free health care then you should pony up the money and pay for health care for the rest of the people in this country who are uninsured: LAW-ABIDING AMERICANS.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yeah? Fine. Then you and Simey and all the others should voluntarily offer to help YOUR FELLOW UNINSURED AMERICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

Like I said, if you think that illegals should get free health care then you should pony up the money and pay for health care for the rest of the people in this country who are uninsured: LAW-ABIDING AMERICANS.

I have ALWAYS supported universal health care! Guess which REPUBLICANS are opposed! ALL of them. 30% of health insurance money goes for the "paper work". Probably most of that goes for management salaries and the rest for contributions to Bush, inc. Don't complain about benefits to some in need. Ask why not me! sam

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yeah? Fine. Then you and Simey and all the others should voluntarily offer to help YOUR FELLOW UNINSURED AMERICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

I do. Medicare (which is what this is part of) is paid for out of federal taxes, which I assure you I pay. Medicade is a federal/state compact paid out of state and federal taxes. I pay those too.

Did you actually bother reading any post other than the ones you agree with? This isn't providing free health care to illegals as a category. They already get the care provided for here, as do all Americans. It is simply reimbursing private hospitals for the health care they are already required to provide to anyone, whether citizens, legal immigrants, tourists, or illegals. If you show up at an emergency room and require urgent treatment, they cannot under federal law deny you that treatment. But it still has to be paid for somehow. So what would you do? Would you:

A. Require Americans who happen to live in areas with a lot of illegal immigrants to pay more for their health care services through costs passed on by their hospitals. Or

B. Allow hospitals an exception to the law mandating emergency care so that they could turn away illegals in need of urgent care (i.e. allow illegals to die).

It's either A or B. This is simply option C: reimburse the hospitals at a national level for the care that hospitals are required by federal law to provide. It's a sensible minor adjustment that will relieve localities of a chronic problem.

Option D: universal health care is a nice wave-the-wand solution. But there isn't much practical interest in that, and it would be vastly more radical than this minor tweak. And note, even with universal health care you still have the same problem of paying for the health care of illegal immigrants. Only then you probably couldn't limit it to urgent care.

I'll make you really upset: did you know that the children of illegal immigrants have a constitutional right to free public school education?

[Cody Dawg]

OPTION E: DON'T LET THEM INTO THE COUNTRY. DEPORT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. MAKE COMPANIES APPLY FOR THE RIGHT TO BRING THEM HERE THROUGH WORK VISAS LIKE EVERY OTHER COMPANY IN THE UNITED STATES. THIS COUNTRY IS BANKRUPT AND WE CANNOT AFFORD IT.

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, and one other thing?

American citizens are being threatened with the prospect of no social security when they become old and infirm and want the money back that they have paid into a system all of their lives...

All while the United States government is GIVING A BILLION DOLLARS AWAY TO ILLEGAL ALIENS - MANY OF THEM CRIMINALS - ALL OF THEM HERE ILLEGALLY.

DISGUSTING.

It really is sickening.

"Unplug them all I say!"

[PacHead]

Deportation is the only acceptable and legal solution. Anything else is criminal.

[Cody Dawg]

PacHead.

[Mithras]

As is so often the case, Simey is right. This is not a `giveaway to the illegals!' matter. THis is a fairness to hospitals issue.

And as is so often the case, some other people's value system makes me retch. The xenophobia on display here is just lovely.
I'm opposed to illegal immigration, but that doesn't mean I'm "opposed to illegals" as people. Hate the sin, love the sinner and all that. We need a more rational immigration policy that makes it easier to immigrate legally, and harder to immigrate illegally.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

OPTION E: DON'T LET THEM INTO THE COUNTRY.

Another wave-the-wand solution. I have no problem with tightening border controls, increasing penalties for employers who hire illegals, tightening I-9 requirements, streamlining deportation procedures, and I do not favor blanket regularization through such things as giving driving licenses to people here illegally. But none of those postions can ever reduce illegal immigration to zero. Not even East Germany was able to completely close its borders, and I don't think we want to go the route they used. I don't want to see guards with shoot-on-sight orders, mines, and automatic shotguns. We are more civilized than that.

Ultimately, the cause is the fact that we share a border with a developing country. If you put a first world country up against a third world one, you will get illegal immigration. It is inevitable that they will be attracted by the same prosperity that attracts legal immigrants. They come here to work, which is more unfortunately than can be said for many native born Americans.

The solution is to develop trade with Mexico and the other countries in the Americas to help them build better and more viable economies. When the disparity of wealth and opportunity is less, the flow of economic refugees will be less. But in the mean time, let's be a little less hysterical and xenophobic. We are the richest country on Earth and the dirty little secret is that cheap illegal labor profits us.

[Mithras]

Cody, have you noted Simey's careful explanation that the BILLION DOLLARS ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IS ALREADY BEING SPENT. But now it's being absorbed by hospitals and passed on to their local communities. This bill simply changes how that cost is absorbed, spreading around to more Americans.

The question of what to be done with illegal immigrants or immigrant policy is not addressed in this bill. If we never made any changes to anything, because we hoped for some AMAZING SOLUTION THAT WILL FIX IT ALL, well, we wouldn't get much done.

[Cody Dawg]

That's right, Mithras. They should be allowed to immigrate into this country through proper channels.

I'm all for that.

I think that people coming into this country illegally is wrong, illegal, and just insane. If our country's attitude is, "Well, if they're coming in from Mexico that's okay," then sooner or later someone is going to come in from the South via Mexico and leave us a dirty little bomb someplace.

Just letting them come in is wrong - and spreading the message that now all hospitals will welcome them with open arms because our government is going to pay their medical bills is incentive.

[Cody Dawg]

And here is an example of the American dream eroding because of jobs disappearing - partly due to illegals displacing Americans, I'm sure:

Real wages fall at fastest rate in 14 years
By Christopher Swann in Washington
Published: May 10 2005 17:59 | Last updated: May 10 2005 17:59

Real wages in the US are falling at their fastest rate in 14 years, according to data surveyed by the Financial Times.

Inflation rose 3.1 per cent in the year to March but salaries climbed just 2.4 per cent, according to the Employment Cost Index. In the final three months of 2004, real wages fell by 0.9 per cent.

The last time salaries fell this steeply was at the start of 1991, when real wages declined by 1.1 per cent.

Stingy pay rises mean many Americans will have to work longer hours to keep up with the cost of living, and they could ultimately undermine consumer spending and economic growth.

Many economists believe that in spite of the unexpectedly large rise in job creation of 274,000 in April, the uneven revival in the labour market since the 2001 recession has made it hard for workers to negotiate real improvements in living standards.

Even after last month's bumper gain in employment, there are 22,000 fewer private sector jobs than when the recession began in March 2001, a 0.02 per cent fall. At the same point in the recovery from the recession of the early 1990s, private sector employment was up 4.7 per cent.

Stagnant salaries push more families towards the breadline

A surfeit of workers and the threat of off-shoring are allowing companies to call the shots on wages.

�There is still little evidence that workers are gaining much traction in their negotiations,� said Paul Ashworth, US analyst at Capital Economics, the consultancy. �If this does not pick up, it raises the prospect of a sharper slowdown in consumer spending than we have been expecting.�

Economists are divided over the best source for measuring pay increases in the US, since the government releases three main measures. A gauge of average hourly earnings is released with the employment report. This rose by 0.3 per cent in both March and April and 0.1 per cent in February. Even with a slight rise in the hours employees are working, from 33.7 to 33.9, this suggests wages are struggling to keep pace with inflation. The gauge covers non-supervisory workers, about 80 per cent of the workforce.

The Bureau of Economic Analysis figures for personal income showed wages rising at close to 6 per cent in 2004 but slowing down since. This measure also showed wages rising by just 0.3 per cent in each of the past 2 months. This is a broader gauge and includes small businesses and professional partnerships, but it measures total corporate wage bill rather than wages per person.

From this link, BTW.

And, remember, 40 million Americans CANNOT AFFORD health care.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

And here is an example of the American dream eroding because of jobs disappearing - partly due to illegals displacing Americans, I'm sure:



From this link, BTW.

And, remember, 40 million Americans CANNOT AFFORD health care.

"The American Dream ending" what hysterical claptrap. The American Dream has nothing to do with government freebies. The American Dream is about opportunity and work. Frankly, illegal immigrants seem to be more in touch with what the American Dream is than you are. That's why they are here.

As for your Washington Post article, those employment trends are completely unrelated to illegal immigration because illegals are paid off the books, typically at rates well below those of legal workers. Legal and illegal workers generally are not in competition with one another because illegal workers tend to work for wages and conditions that legal workers either cannot legally endure, or wouldn't endure for the same price.

The economic effect is a net benefit. Their cheap labor in industries like agriculture has the effect of subsidizing the rest of the economy by reducing the costs of the goods and food we consume. Economically, they are a net plus. The downside is that it isn't particularly good to run a large black economy for reasons unrelated to the economic reasons. In particular, it encourages unsafe and inhumane working conditions that we outlawed decades ago and creates an underclass. But neither of those things are related to this anti-immigrant economically-illiterate popularism.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by PacHead

What exactly is defined as emergency care ?

Is giving birth emergency care ?

In that case great, now the illegal person has spawned another cost for US taxpayers, by giving birth, and adding somebody else to our population that we must pay for. Freeloaders are what they are.

It is if it happens in an emergency room.

ANYTHING that happens in an emergency room will be covered. OR the rates the rest of us will pay have to go up to cover it. OR some of us are denied the best coverage to afford to subsidize the moochers' coverages.

Free health care isn't free. Here's another example.

Before we do anything else in this country, we need to close the freaking borders. No racism, just reciprocity. Adopt the immigration laws of everyone else for a change.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by SVass

Senator Kyl proposed the payments.

Because there are border hospitals going out of business from unpaid fees. Everywhere, not just in two states.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

"The American Dream ending" what hysterical claptrap. The American Dream has nothing to do with government freebies. The American Dream is about opportunity and work. Frankly, illegal immigrants seem to be more in touch with what the American Dream is than you are. That's why they are here.

As for your Washington Post article, those employment trends are completely unrelated to illegal immigration because illegals are paid off the books, typically at rates well below those of legal workers. Legal and illegal workers generally are not in competition with one another because illegal workers tend to work for wages and conditions that legal workers either cannot legally endure, or wouldn't endure for the same price.

The economic effect is a net benefit. Their cheap labor in industries like agriculture has the effect of subsidizing the rest of the economy by reducing the costs of the goods and food we consume. Economically, they are a net plus. The downside is that it isn't particularly good to run a large black economy for reasons unrelated to the economic reasons. In particular, it encourages unsafe and inhumane working conditions that we outlawed decades ago and creates an underclass. But neither of those things are related to this anti-immigrant economically-illiterate popularism.

You are arguing the economic side of things, and even if deportation would have a negative economic effect (something I'll believe when I see it), then I would still be in favor of getting rid of these kind of people.

I know plenty of people who have acquired visas in the normal, legal fashion. Sure, it took some time, especially post 9-11, but that's the way it is. If anybody objects to this, they do not have to visit or enter the USA, since these sorts of people are not welcome.

The Illegals should be rounded up in every single US city, and sent to deportation facilities, where they will be shipped back to their points of origin. The illegals are everywhere, not just in border states. They flock to major cities all across the country.

I could never see myself entering another country illegally, and I have zero respect for these illegals, and the economic aspects of the matter do not concern me. Security is more important.

[Cody Dawg]

Before we do anything else in this country, we need to close the freaking borders. No racism, just reciprocity. Adopt the immigration laws of everyone else for a change.

APPLAUSE.

Yes, PacHead, I agree: People can get VISAs the normal way or get out. I think we should give them 18 months to go in, register for work status to PAY TAXES LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, or they should be forced to leave.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Wow! I don't often find myself in agreement with both SVass and RailHead, but yes, emergency care isn't quite the same thing as providing free health care to illegals.

For one thing, it was already illegal for emergency rooms to turn patients in need away. That includes illegal immigrants. That means their health care was already being paid for by someone. The only question here was whether that cost should be borne by the unlucky hospital and passed on to other users of that particular hospital, or whether it could be passed on to Medicare so the risk could be spread wider. Given that immigration is a national issue under the Constitution, it makes sense to me to treat this as a national issue, not just one affecting mostly border states.

As long as this doesn't become an incentive to illegally emigrate (unlikely, given that this is emergency care), then I don't see a particular problem. It is just being realistic given that illegal immigration is a problem that can't be wished away with a wave of a wand. And similarly, I wouldn't expect Mexican hospitals to let travelling Americans die if any show up without insurance in their hospitals' emergency rooms.

And notice the thread title is misleading. Nothing is being given to illegals that doesn't also go to similarly-situated citizens. If you show up in an emergency room, you get treated by law whether or not you can pay. This is purely an accounting issue between the hospitals who have to provide that service and the government.

The only thing I would add is that this is to ensure an acceptable level of healthcare FOR US CITIZENS. This is NOT for illegals. Many, many hospitals and trauma centers have closed in Tucson, Phoenix, and many other places with large percentages of illegals. They could not afford to stay open due to uncovered costs. Cody Dawg, that means your countrymen might not have immediate access to emergency health services. Especially here, where illegals already need medical attention as soon as they get here just from crossing the desert.

Today, the hispanic community is trying to boycott AZ by staying home from work and not buying anything. They are trying to organize an anti-Arizona tourism campaign this summer as well. I am against illegal immigration as much as just about anyone here, but this bill is a good thing.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

APPLAUSE.

Yes, PacHead, I agree: People can get VISAs the normal way or get out. I think we should give them 18 months to go in, register for work status to PAY TAXES LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, or they should be forced to leave.

Republican contributors DON"T pay Medicare taxes. There is NO medicare tax on employer gifts of stock options to the CEOs. The undocumented aliens who work do pay taxes. So let us deport all those who don't pay medicare taxes instead! sam

[Cody Dawg]

I'm not against hispanics.

I'm against illegal aliens.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by SVass

Republican contributors DON"T pay Medicare taxes. There is NO medicare tax on employer gifts of stock options to the CEOs. The undocumented aliens who work do pay taxes. So let us deport all those who don't pay medicare taxes instead! sam

Wow! 52% of voters voted Republican in the last election, and they all live entirely off of stock dividends! How can I join this club? I hate working for a living.

No, no, wait. You must have been thinking of George Soros and John Kerry. They are the ones who live off of their investments (or in Kerry's case, his wife's ex-husband's family's investments).

[SVass]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

Wow! 52% of voters voted Republican in the last election, and they all live entirely off of stock dividends! How can I join this club? I hate working for a living.

Simey has forgotten how to read. I said, "Republican contributors DON"T pay Medicare taxes". I did NOT say Republican voters don't pay all taxes. Maybe he has studied the speeches of George. sam