[darcybaston]

This article mentions Steve Jobs, but that's not the impressive part of it. I can't describe this 'mystery' device, just read and comment on what you think 'IT' aka Ginger is?!
http://www.msnbc.com/news/513749.asp?cp1=1

Darcy

[machappy]

its a scooter that floats.

[artman]

They've found IT and are going to expoit IT until IT is not IT anymore.

------------------
The Artman @_@
http://www.artshack.com

[elzinat]

the only article I have ever read which contained less information was an article explaining everything shrub knows.
how useless.
why do we have to wait a whole year?

------------------
be happy!
-mac freak

[AlbertWu]

Originally posted by elzinat:
the only article I have ever read which contained less information was an article explaining everything shrub knows.
how useless.
why do we have to wait a whole year?

For what??? An IT. (IT Managers. Information Technoloy? Or Compaq's Inspiration Technology?)

Whatever... Good night.

[AlbertWu]

What does a shrub know?

------------------
Albert Wu <- No life.
http://web.harker.org/

24/7 Cell phone use can not kill you. I am half-consious proof. (It's not because of the cell phone.)

Caffine is not a mind-altering drug.
It is a life-altering drug!

[Archangel]

Sounds like a lot of hooey to me. . .anybody remember what it was like before The Phantom Menace came out?

You know what I bet it is? Somebody "discovered" the Mac. . .<sigh> I really doubt this "Ginger" thing will "change the world." Hey, I hope I'm proven wrong, but I still don't think it will happen. Bummer I have to wait until 2002 to find out. . oh wait! That's next year!

------------------
"Elvis has left the building!"

[Cipher13]

I'm sure it would be awesome talking to a shrub!
I mean really - they see all sorts of stuff, cause people think they're alone when they're with a shrub - but oh no!
Never trust a shrub
They know everything about everything, cause no one suspects them, and therefore no one hides anything from them...
I for one will never let a shrub get the better of me though!
Eh, IT's probably nothing.
I know, ask a shrub!!!
Just gotta find the right one... hm, everyone ask around!
I'm sure the WWSN (World Wide Shrub Network) has at least SOME info on IT...

Cipher13

[Cipher13]

Hey, like my new signature?
Now... how do I get the "show signature" thing checked by default?

Cipher13

------------------
Ask the shrubs...

[druber]

It does seem pretty lame to be writing a book about a product that you think will change the whole world. I mean, full marks for arrogance there, but really.. If this is a bid at building some hype, he can go for a swim. We're so swamped with prostitute excitement, baiting people with no information won't get very far.
On the other hand, this guy really has created some amazing stuff. Was reading about him in Wired a month or two ago. I'll be interested to see what it is. $250k to write a book about an unknown subject shows pretty high regard for the guy.


------------------------------------
the shrubs are listening...

[suprz]

cipher, would the address be www.wwsn.com? i cant find it............

------------------
" I think,
therefore....IMAC

[scottiB]

It's a fembot that resembles Tina Louise.

[jholmes]

Heck with that. I'm waiting for the Dawn Wells version then.
I'm hoping for it's a flying car.

[Scott_H]

It's all bull **** .


BTW Gore invented it.

[This message has been edited by Scott_H (edited 01-11-2001).]

[Archangel]

Britney Speares fembot. . .?

------------------
"Elvis has left the building!"

[Cipher13]

Anna Kournikova fembot

BTW Suprz, they don't have a webpage - thats exactly where they'd expect you to go first!!
Smart, these shrubs are...

Cipher13

------------------
Ask the shrubs...

[yoyo52]

Superconductivity at room temperature?

Fusion in a test tube?

What else could it be?

[MacAgent]

Well, I've come up with 4 possible solutions for you to think about:

The inventor likes to use acronyms, so that goes on to number one:

1. A power source fueled by gravity.

Gravity
Induced (or Influenced)
Naturally
Generated
Energy
Reactor

This would somehow be run by gravity and would generate power for use by everyone, solving the world's energy problems.

I. Is this greater than the internet or the PC? Maybe. Since it solves the energy crisis and
does so without any harmful pollution or exposure.

II. Does this fit with Steve Jobs' statement about building cities around them? It can. If we consider
that there could be two models. One that is at the core of a city and powers everything in that city. Then
there could be a smaller model that is portable and can power places with no power. This could replace
solar since it has a much bigger output.

III. Would Jeff Bezos laugh at something like this? Not that I can think of, unless he thinks it's so
brilliant that it's funny.

IIII. Would this device be illegal at first, as mentioned by Steve and Jeff? I don't see why. A generator
that produces unlimited amounts of power with no pollution? If anything, they'd BEG for you to use it.
Except for one thing: it would put the energy companies out of business. Your houses and cars and
EVERYTHING could be powered by these things. Therefore, energy companies may sue.

The verdict: It's possible, very possible, but since two of the facts don't seem to add up, it's possible but
not too likely unless used in conjunction with the second possibility.


2. A hoverboard/scooter.

I currently have no acronym for this, if you can come up with one, let me know.

This could be powered by number one and use some type of anti-gravity to hover. This would stop a lot of pollution as well.

I. Is this greater than the internet or the PC? Maybe. It's a transportation device that would probably be
quite fun to ride in and would also cause no pollution.

II. Does this fit with Steve Jobs' statement about building cities around them? I'm not sure how. Since
they could hover, they could go virtually anywhere.

III. Would Jeff Bezos laugh at something like this? Yes! Imagine seeing someone flying around on an
object a few feet off the ground. That would be very unusual and funny at first.

IIII. Would this device be illegal at first, as mentioned by Steve and Jeff? Very possibly. It may go
superfast, so they would probably have speed limits. Also, if it can go over a certain height it classifies as
an aircraft and you would have to have a pilots license to go on it.

The verdict: Probably the most likely, especially when used in conjunction with Number one. It would rock.


3. A type of holographic projector.

I currently have no acronym for this either.

This could either be like the holodeck in Star Trek or could be some new type of holograph that has substance. Imagine working at home with your holograph at work while you stay at home. You could be at work while actually in Hawaii or somewhere.

I. Is this greater than the internet or the PC? Yes. Work without commuting.

II. Does this fit with Steve Jobs' statement about building cities around them? Absolutely. They could
build holographic projectors all over the city so your holograph could shop for you or something.

III. Would Jeff Bezos laugh at something like this? Very possible. "Jeff, meet your holograph." and the
holograph does exactly what Jeff does.

IIII. Would this device be illegal at first, as mentioned by Steve and Jeff? It could be. Someone could murder people with a holograph and then the holograph just disappears. It could be dangerous.

The verdict: The 2nd least likely, but possible and very cool.


4. Personal robots/droids.

I currently have no acronym for this either.

Imagine having a droid that looks just like you. You could send it to work, the store, etc. It does everything for you.

I. Is this greater than the internet or the PC? Yes and no. The good part is that you get to be lazy and
the bad part is that you get to be lazy (that's not a typo).

II. Does this fit with Steve Jobs' statement about building cities around them? Not that I can think of.

III. Would Jeff Bezos laugh at something like this? Yes, same reason as number 3, pretty much.

IIII. Would this device be illegal at first, as mentioned by Steve and Jeff? It could also be dangerous since someone could send a droid to murder people.

The verdict: Less likely than number 3, but interesting.


Well, whadaya think? Let me know, I gotta get going to bed, it's 1:00 in the morning.


------------------
d

[Cipher13]

What about teleportation???
They've made progress in that area.
And it wouldn't be that power generator - the oil companies etc. would NEVER let that happen. Just like with those water engines, and even the orbital engine. Bastards... deserve to die.
But that could be why its being kept a secret?
I say its some power source. Micro cold fusion? Could power a laptop
A fuel cell of some sort?
Woudln't build cities around...
I don't think its a scooter - thats not a big enough deal. Although the pricniples are - anti gravity and whatnot.
And the droid thing is just not that possible yet...
And its not a breakthrough that make it possible - its a gradual thing.
Something regarding genetic engineering? Cloning?
Who knows...

Cipher13

[Cipher13]

Ohh! I got it! I got it!
Ok, check this:
Its a virtual world!
Full immersion!
Cities will be built around it - FIGURATIVELY!!!!
Virtual cities!
Oh this is so friggin' cool, think about it - all the pieces fit!!!!!!!!!!
I can't *&^%$#@ wait!!!
Read the book "Net Force" by... um, Clancy I think, to get the full idea - part 1 of the book, the original.
Great book - if you understand the concepts

Oh well, I'm outta here... catchya'll in a week or so.

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 01-12-2001).]

[simonjames]

easy peasy now that I have read it - my opinion? a crock! it was written like a story out of 'National Inquirer' or some such 'highly regarded' source that has headlines like "every third person is from Andromeda"

a SF author (R A Heinlein I think) had a book where power (electricity) was obtained not via wires but through a devices that taped generated energy from 'the atmosphere' (or anywhere) to power whatever device(s) they required - whether it be an inter-city shuttle, trans-continental pod or luna lander - that way you could have a engine or device of any type that was powered from this "ether power source" without having to have the bulky energy source waiting to be consumed - that would be the best thing since the airport - not only wireless networking but just 'wireless' everything

Also - look at the links "inside dope"? I don't recall this link in the 'Lancet' or 'Scientist Monthly' - total and utter bulldust

[This message has been edited by simonjames (edited 01-12-2001).]

[jholmes]

I agree with simon - it sounds like a bunch of bullfeathers. But Nikoli Tesla who was one of the most inventive ee's in history was convinced you could transmit electrically power wirelessly. Maybe this guy has firgured it out.

[Archangel]

I agree that this is probably a lot of made up junk, but it is still fun to speculate what is could be (besides a figment of an imagination).

It occurred to me, why was this invention shown only to Jobs, Doerr, and Bezos? I think it has something to do with computers, internet, or some other computer related field. It wouldn't make any sense to build a personal transportation device or phenomenal energy source and show it to Jobs and Bezos. Why would they care? They are computer and internet retailers. And Doerr is an investor in tech companies, not automobile or power.

This Kamen guy has been compared to Henry Ford and Thomas Edison, so maybe we can draw some conclusions from that bit. Remember, although Ford is often thought to be the inventor of the automobile, he was just one of several men who were working on the same thing. Ford's exclusive invention was the assembly line. Edison invented tons of stuff. I think this may only be a reference to Kamen's diversity of inventions (medical and handicapped travel), so I guess it would make sense if Kamen branched off into tech stuff.

So here is my guess right now: it may be some type of superbroadband access device or something like that. But it would require some restructuring of cities in order to access it's full potential. The one major flaw I see with this is that as far as I know, Kamen doesn't have any experience in this area of EE. My idea would be more likely to come out of some place like AT&T or GE, not some lone inventor.

And that brings up a good point. I dug this little tidbit from an old Wired article: "Kamen, 49, is a self-taught physicist and multimillionaire entrepreneur." Okay, so the guy has money, but he doesn't have a formal education (he didn't graduate from college). I don't care how much of a genius somebody is, if he don't have the proper training in a field, I have trouble believing he could come up with something that thousands of other better trained physicists couldn't.

Here is another interesting snipet from the same Wired article, which was published in Sept. 2000:

Lately, Kamen has broadened his work beyond health care. He believes technology and ingenuity can solve all kinds of social ills - like pollution, limited access to electricity, and contaminated water in many third-world countries, where bacteria from human feces in drinking water is a leading cause of cholera. To help ameliorate the water problem, Deka's team of 170 engineers is working on a nonpolluting engine - funded by several million dollars of Kamen's own money - based on a concept first floated in the early 1800s but never realized.

The device is called the Stirling engine; Kamen hopes it can be developed into an affordable, portable machine that will run a water purifier/power generator that could zap contaminated H20 with a UV laser to make it safe for drinking. "It can burn any fuel, and you can do all kinds of things with it," he says. "It might be very valuable in emerging economies, giving them access to electricity, even the Net."

Another project, to be unveiled in the next year, will necessitate building "the largest company in New Hampshire," Kamen says with characteristic bravura. He's shy about details, except to say it involves a consumer device unrelated to health care and will require $100 million in financing. Among the investors: Kleiner Perkins.

Huh, well, that's all I've thought of so far. Here's the link to the article. It's a good read: http://www.wirednews.com/wired/archi.../kamen_pr.html

Personally, I feel really stupid after reading what this guy has done, but I still refused to get my hopes up about what he has invented.

Oh yeah, one more thought, if both Bezos and Jobs know what this "world-changing" invention is, then we should keep a close eye on where they direct their companies and what the invest in personally. I think that will give us more cluse.

Okay, now I'm done.

------------------
"Elvis has left the building!"

[Scott_H]

If it were some kinda internet device or something like that why would the model names be "metro" and "pro"?

[Don Pickett]

It's a money tree. First prototypes produced on Confederate currency. Not very useful. Now they've got the thing up to tens. Hoping for twentys in about six months.

Don

[MacAgent]

True, Scott_H, true.

LOL, Don Pickett.


Anyway, the only things that fit with the clues to me are the hoverboard and/or a fuelless generator.

Power companies have no right to stop him from making this. Sadly, Gore didn't win, so we probably won't see a stop to their monopoly any time soon.

But parts of these two fit together, therefore I think that GINGER is a hoverboard/scooter RUN on an infinite engine.

------------------
d

[artman]

IT'S OFFICIAL HERE'S GINGER!



LOL Just kidding.

------------------
The Artman @_@
http://www.artshack.com

[druber]

yikes, take her back.

teleport would be cool, but i think it's way too technical to be hand-assembled on site. instantaneously mapping every particle, replicating it perfectly, then destroying the original. whew, that's a lot of work.

here's hoping someone spills the beans on the concept. Just as long as it still makes it to market. if this is a new energy device that could be inexpensively produced, and people can see that it works, big oil etc. would have a hard time taking it diving in concrete.

[Joshua]

Well, if you've read the latest Clive Cussler novel the first thing that probably comes to mind: an inexpensive easily built desalinization device.

Turning salt water into fresh, clean, healthy drinking water could solve a lot of the worlds problems.

[Kozmik]

Ginger is a motorized Razor Scooter, essentially. IT has footholds and stabilizing dealies, so you can go over many types of terrain and not slip or fall. As for cities being architected around IT, that makes perfect sense. Same for college campuses and cities being retrofitted for IT. IT will be very significant in the amount of money IT will bring in. Who wouldn't want one of these? I certainly do! The interesting thing is, I had a dream about these very things last summer, before I knew an idea was in the works. Too bad I didn't have the foresight to come up with how one might work.

By the way, some of you might want proof that I know what I'm talking about. So, I invite you to take a look at this patent application: http://www.delphion.com/fcgi-bin/any...E=1&SCALE=0.35

[Scott_H]

What do you do with IT when you get to where you're going? What if IT starts to rain? How do you hold an umbrella when riding IT? If IT cannot go 30 MPH then I can see anyone using IT to get around Chicago. IT will fail if that's what IT is.

[Scott_H]

What if you fall off of IT? What if you have two bags of groceries while riding IT? What if you have heals on (for my wife not me ) and try to ride IT. What if there's 10 inches of snow around IT?

I hope it's not the scooter thing. We already have good scooters and not many people ride them now. I think IT will be a fun toy and nothing more.

[Demonhood]

I tend to agree. I find it hard to believe that there is all this fuss over a motorized scooter. Perhaps the scooter is powered using some unique energy source or it goes 50mph safely (unlikely). I'm hoping that IT is Inertial Transportation. I mean, we've gotta have those hoverboards before 2015 or Back to the Future 2 will turn out to be a complete sham.

[This message has been edited by Demonhood (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Kozmik]

Who says it won't be a hoverscooter?

[Archangel]

In response to why would a superbroadband internet thingie be labeled Metro and Pro. The metro relies on a hardwired infrastructure like in a metropolitan area. The pro can be portable which is ideal for professional use.

Okay, if it's a motorized scooter than why would it be shown only to Jobs, Bezos, and Doerr? That doesn't make much sense unless you look at it like this:

1. It is a motorized scooter that depends on microchips to correct balance like in the IBOT--which I really want to see! It sounds incredible!
2. He showed it to Jobs because Jobs has access to some wonderful chips (G4, G4e, etc.) that could very well be utilized in building it.
3. He showed it to Bezos because he is one of the most revolutionary salesman to come along in awhile, so Kamen will utilize Bezos and his commerical empire to sell Ginger.
4. He showed it to Doerr because he needs money. . .yeah, but why a tech investor?

I really doubt it's some type of superclean, high volume energy source. I can not see how that could come out of a comparatively lone inventor. I mean, you would expect something like that to come out of the labs down in Las Alamos, NM, where the US gov is pumping in BILLIONS of dollars in research money, investing in the very very best of equipment, and the very very best of scientists.

------------------
"Elvis has left the building!"

[This message has been edited by Archangel (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Scott_H]

I don't know why those three saw it. Maybe they just happened to be in town? If you want PPC you goto IBM or Mot, not Apple.

Anything that hovers will float right down the first hill to comes too. In Chicago that may be okay but in San Fran you're dead.

I can't see bring someone like Bezos in this early just to market the thing.

It's got to be some kinda personal transport but I very much doubt it'll have any impact on anything at all.

[disectamac]

It IS a personal transport device!!! Holy camolies, it hovers!!

To close out the thinking that just because @home and other computer companies are investing must mean that it can't be a hover thingy:

can anyone here tell me what General Motors is all about? most comon answer: cars, right?

Absolutely correct, but did you know that General Motors has an investment in bread production also?


it's a personal hover craft!!! I can't wait

[disectamac]

Ok, just found out.....it might not hover at all but it's more than likely a personal transport device.....


would anyone care to see pictures of it from the Patent Office?....


Ginger Diagram and article - CNET NEWS.COM

[bizzare]

------------------

[MacAgent]

Holy crap!

I tell you, I'm positive it hovers!

Someone has done research where you can generate anti-gravity with some sort of ceramic disks. You see that disk in the middle? It hovers!

That's also what Good Morning America has been showing, but slightly different, it was more a scooter type thing, but had the same disk.

This could be huge. Cars, skateboards, trains, ships, scooters, EVERYTHING could have this!

------------------
d

[Scott_H]

Hum? I'm rather sure it doesn't hover. If it does it wont be very useful. You'll hover right down a hill and into a bus. Controlling a craft that has no connection to the ground is very hard.

Someone has done research where you can generate anti-gravity with some sort of ceramic disks. You see that disk in the middle? It hovers!

That's not anti gravity it's just magnetic repulsion. We used to do it in senior physics lab class. It takes a lot of energy even with super conductors.

[MacAgent]

But imagine if Kamen discovered a way to do this. Either that or teleportation or a fem-bot.

GINGER:

Gyroscopic
Individually
Navigated
Gravitational
Energy
Regenerator

------------------
d

[MacAgent]

Holy Crap!

Dean Kamen has issued a press release:
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/010112/02022032.html


------------------
d

[Archangel]

So, that's what it turned out to be after all. Just a bunch of hooey. Well, it was fun to speculate. . .<sigh> maybe some day we can all go down to Toshi station to pick up some power convertors for our hover-scooters.

HA!

------------------
"Elvis has left the building!"

[disectamac]

awwww.....dang...we scared him into a public statement

[MacAgent]

Well, what else could be "greater than the internet"? Since that was a quote that couldn't have been taken out of context. THE GUY SAID IT STRAIGHT TO THE CAMERA ON GOOD MORNING AMERICA, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

My guess is it's prolly just gonna be a lame-ass motorized scooter with self-righting technology. Not greater than the internet.

------------------
d

[The Dude]

Is it possible that he has lied to us to throw us off track? I would have to say yes.

And about Jeff Bezos laughing hysterically at "IT" when he saw it, Bezos laughs at everything.

[eep!]

let's see,
1. not medical
2. can be assembled in around 5 mins using a few tools.
3. it's fun
4. entry level less that $2000
5. environmentally clean
6. "likely to run afoul of existing regulations and or inspire new ones"
7. Kamen has already invented an all-terain wheelchair

so, i think it's a scooter/bike of some sort as already posted. But, and it's a big but, with regards the point six on the above list, i think it runs off either water or human waste.
If Jobs gets a say in it's naming my money's on 'iCommute'

[MacAgent]

The Dude: I saw a 60 Minutes interview with Bezos and he laughed like twice. Not hysterically either.

The guy ABC interviewed just said that to get around saying something that might tell what IT is.

I'm still going with either an energy source or a hovering device.

But...Kamen's iBot (Wheelchair that can climb stairs) was codenamed "Fred"
IT is codenamed "Ginger"

Anyone make a connection?

Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. Dance partners.

------------------
d

[elzinat]

cipher, I apologize in advance for needing to de-glorify your sig.

shrub = little bush, ie shrub = Bush Jr. aka Dubya, the stupid evil guy who stole the US prsidential election from that good man Al Gore whom the people elected.
the point being that an article explaining what dubya knows would contain no information b/c he's a moron who knows nothing. it was a joke.

sorry.

------------------
be happy!
-mac freak