Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Adobe/Macromedia need competition

Adobe/Macromedia need competition
Thread Tools
Superchicken
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 12:12 AM
 
OK, seriously both used to be some of my fave ISVs. Fireworks 3 was awesome, and Photoshop around version 5 was amazing. That said Adobe has been pulling some dumb stunts lately, IE not really adding anything useful to Photoshop in forever (OK the liquify filter is cool... and... oh wait... what else has there been?)

Fireworks version 4 was good, and then came MX... the crap version, MX 2004 hasn't worked with new Wacom drivers in FOREVER. And now with this announcement that they're merging with Adobe I doubt it'll ever get fixed.

Dreamweaver while it has some great stuff about it, the interface is slow... soo... slow last time I looked.

Flash, I demoed it again recently and to be honest... I do know they've added a lot to Action script, and all that... but seriously they haven't improved the (dubious at best) interface since version 5!

Add to this the frustration of Adobe recently deciding that they won't do anything with their video/sound whatever products on the Mac for some reason (Oh.. wait right Apple kicked their butts!).

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Apple take some of their advanced tech (CoreImage etc) and give the new Adobe/Macromedia a run for their money. I mean it doesn't have to be Apple really... it could be anyone (not sure exactly who could really make an attempt though).

To be honest though... I'd just like to see someone else come in and build a product that you know in five years or so could actually rival Photoshop and Ilustrator as well as In Design, and work well with something that could take on Dreamweaver.

Sigh... is it too much to hope for that professional level software would actually get better over the years? Some days it seems hopeless that anyone but Apple will make a product that is really worth using that isn't entirely new? I mean I know we have great titles by people like the Omni Group, and a lot of Open Source developments fill in for stuff (Adium and Cyberduck are great apps) and all that.

It's really too bad Apple didn't buy Macromedia... and fire most of the current decision makers.
     
CreepingDeth
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Interstellar Overdrive
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 12:16 AM
 
When's the last time you've used PS? PS is dominant because it is the Swiss army knife of editing. It is absolutely essential. There is not another program with the widespread support and familiarity of Photoshop.

Did someone at Adobe show lewd pictures to your or something?
     
Superchicken  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 12:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by CreepingDeth
When's the last time you've used PS? PS is dominant because it is the Swiss army knife of editing. It is absolutely essential. There is not another program with the widespread support and familiarity of Photoshop.

Did someone at Adobe show lewd pictures to your or something?
Bout two hours ago...

And I know that Photoshop is incredibly capable it was that at 5.5! We're on to version 9! What has changed since then that actually REALLY improves the way you work? And has it been worth the price of four upgrades?
     
Ghoser777
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 12:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by CreepingDeth
Did someone at Adobe show lewd pictures to your or something?
Lewd pictures and Photoshop? Nah.
     
spatterson
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 12:33 AM
 
you have the magnetic lasso, and art history brushes... also the liquify tool...

Not to mention the file browser, and other automated features have been made much better.

I have Photoshop CS... can't say I've played with CS2, but I like Adobe...

I can aggree that they need some competition to inspire creativity... but its still pretty good.
     
Superchicken  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 12:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by spatterson
you have the magnetic lasso, and art history brushes... also the liquify tool...

Not to mention the file browser, and other automated features have been made much better.

I have Photoshop CS... can't say I've played with CS2, but I like Adobe...

I can aggree that they need some competition to inspire creativity... but its still pretty good.
I'm not saying Photoshop hasn't gotten ANY Better (though I imagine if there were a native port of 5.5 it might be faster than CS2) I'm just saying now with Macromedia being brought into the fold... I can see development getting even worse. Cause they don't have to worry that people will use Fireworks instead of Photoshop. I imagine sadly they'll kill fireworks (Which aside from being useless with a tablet is a good program).

I just... see this whole area of software brutally sucking in the future... sadly I don't think GIMP is going to help much either
     
waxcrash
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 12:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
Bout two hours ago...

And I know that Photoshop is incredibly capable it was that at 5.5! We're on to version 9! What has changed since then that actually REALLY improves the way you work? And has it been worth the price of four upgrades?
Since version 7, the biggest change that improves the way I work is that it is OS X native.
     
Warung
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the streets have no names...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 01:07 AM
 
I just saw the CS 2 demo'd at a Mac Expo, and I have to say I'm very impressed. I like the idea of seemless editing (Picture Bridge) and the new "Correction Tool" (I don't know the English term for it, but it will pretty much make the "Stamp Tool" obsolete). Also the automation, in terms of color correction in DNGs and the RAW format is very useful - especially when shooting in difficult lighting conditions.

As far as Illustrator goes, - this will be the most important upgrade for me in ages. Why? Direct pixel graphic to vector import (w00t!), featuring some pretty sweet settings- and coloring options. No more cutting paths etc. I have been looking for something like this since the days of Streamline.

As far as Macromedia goes,- I don't think Dreamweaver and GoLive will co-exist for any length of time (maybe a couple of years). AFAIC they will both be replaced by a more template oriented, CSS based content management system for wysiwyg and a basic text editor (what was that thing called "HomeSite"?) Fireworks will be swallowed by ImageReady and Freehand by Illustrator. - Flash will become a niche tool, for very limited use (the way it was meant to be, imho)

I just hope they do a good job of porting the CS 3 to the MacIntel platform (less resource hungry, more effecient), - they should give those people upgrading from the CS a fat discount, since they will be pretty much forced to when buying a new computer (I know, Rosetta and all...but I don't think that is a a viable "option").

Competition would be a good thing, but I can't really see anybody coming up with something comparable anytime time soon.

My 2 ۍ
( Last edited by Warung; Jun 24, 2005 at 01:29 AM. )

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
     
Randman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MacNN database error. Please refresh your browser.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 01:29 AM
 
Let's see how many posts superchicken has related to his feelings toward Adobe.


Eleventy billion?

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
Kevin
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 06:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
Bout two hours ago...

And I know that Photoshop is incredibly capable it was that at 5.5! We're on to version 9! What has changed since then that actually REALLY improves the way you work? And has it been worth the price of four upgrades?
Chicken I take it you don't use Photoshop professionally. If you did, you wouldn't have had to ask that question.

In other words, you are probably gonna be happy with Photoshop Elements .
     
:XI:
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 09:38 AM
 
OK, I'll compete. I'll even support the Hindus, the Buddhists and the Hare Krishnas but I'm not touching the Chirstians or the Jews.
     
Kevin
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 09:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by :XI:
OK, I'll compete. I'll even support the Hindus, the Buddhists and the Hare Krishnas but I'm not touching the Chirstians or the Jews.
We don't want you touching us.
     
chris v
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Sar Chasm
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 09:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
OK, seriously both used to be some of my fave ISVs. Fireworks 3 was awesome, and Photoshop around version 5 was amazing. That said Adobe has been pulling some dumb stunts lately, IE not really adding anything useful to Photoshop in forever (OK the liquify filter is cool... and... oh wait... what else has there been?)
RTFM

Since 5.5? Layer effects? Healing brush? Adjustment layers? Editable keyboard shortcuts? Raw Plugin? 4x larger file size (at least)? Text on a path? Vector shape tool? Totally revamped brushes palette? totally revamped filter gallery? Context-sensitive toolbar? Plus at least 100 others I can't think of because I don't have PS open and can't be bothered right now... you really don't use PS professionally at all, do you?

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
Kevin
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 10:03 AM
 
Good thing is, when I started Photoshop, it was actually easier than elements.

Photoshop 2.0 wasn't too pact with features.

I was able to learn each new feature.

I feel sorry for people that have to learn Photoshop from scratch now.

It can be quite intimidating.

I learned Illustrator about 6 years ago. that was bad enough.
( Last edited by KevinK; Jun 24, 2005 at 10:10 AM. )
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 10:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by chris v
Since 5.5? Layer effects? Healing brush? Adjustment layers? Editable keyboard shortcuts? Raw Plugin? 4x larger file size (at least)? Text on a path? Vector shape tool? Totally revamped brushes palette? totally revamped filter gallery? Context-sensitive toolbar? Plus at least 100 others I can't think of because I don't have PS open and can't be bothered right now... you really don't use PS professionally at all, do you?
I use Photoshop CS at one of my jobs and Photoshop 6 at the other, and using the old Photoshop drives me up the freaking wall. Just the lack of live editing for text is enough to make me want to try swallowing the mouse. There were also some really irritating bugs with selecting and cropping back then.

Oh well, I guess it's good for Superchicken that CoreImage has led to this glut of Photoshop killers that everyone was predicting.
( Last edited by Chuckit; Jun 24, 2005 at 10:17 AM. )
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
- - e r i k - -
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 10:14 AM
 
CS2 is the most significant upgrade for working with digital photography since forever. Chicken is just pissed that he couldn't get it for free.

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
chris v
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Sar Chasm
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
I use Photoshop CS at one of my jobs and Photoshop 6 at the other, and using the old Photoshop drives me up the freaking wall. Just the lack of live editing for text is enough to make me want to try swallowing the mouse. There were also some really irritating bugs with selecting and cropping back then.
I have to use PS 6 in Classic for my flatbed scanner, because I'm a cheap bastard. Tell me about it.

Oh well, I guess it's good for Superchicken that CoreImage has led to this glut of Photoshop killers that everyone was predicting.
Speaking of which, iMaginator pretty well rules.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
CreepingDeth
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Interstellar Overdrive
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by chris v
RTFM

Since 5.5? Layer effects? Healing brush? Adjustment layers? Editable keyboard shortcuts? Raw Plugin? 4x larger file size (at least)? Text on a path? Vector shape tool? Totally revamped brushes palette? totally revamped filter gallery? Context-sensitive toolbar? Plus at least 100 others I can't think of because I don't have PS open and can't be bothered right now... you really don't use PS professionally at all, do you?
I can't imagine using it without many of those features. Hell, I'd probably go nuts without the keyboard shortcuts. And don't forget CS 2's ability to transfer vector drawing from Illustrator and preserve them. *swoon*
     
davesimondotcom
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Landlockinated
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by chris v
RTFM

Since 5.5? Layer effects? Healing brush? Adjustment layers? Editable keyboard shortcuts? Raw Plugin? 4x larger file size (at least)? Text on a path? Vector shape tool? Totally revamped brushes palette? totally revamped filter gallery? Context-sensitive toolbar? Plus at least 100 others I can't think of because I don't have PS open and can't be bothered right now... you really don't use PS professionally at all, do you?
Layer comps. Non-destructive layer effects. OS X support. Perspective correction. Non-square pixel support.

Shall we continue?
[ sig removed - image host changed it to a big ad picture ]
     
CreepingDeth
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Interstellar Overdrive
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 03:21 PM
 
Yes.
     
budster101
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 03:42 PM
 
Adobe Owns Macromedia.
     
ReggieX
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 06:24 PM
 
I always skip the even-numbered versions of Photoshop (4, 6, 8) as they tend to be the ones what get crammed with new features that aren't exactly up to snuff. The only reason I even used 4 was that it 3 kept crashing on my machine at the time. 3 was great, 5.5 was really great, and 7 was excellent. No idea if CS2 is worth bothering with. Still have 5.5 in Classic to run all those insane filters dating back to the 3.0 era.
The Lord said 'Peter, I can see your house from here.'
     
budster101
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 06:45 PM
 
CS2 is definately worth it. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy.

5.5 was Awesome btw, 6 - sucked, and so on. We had the same conclusions you did about the even numbered versions of photoshop. Weird.
     
Superchicken  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 06:52 PM
 
Isn't CS even numbered though?
     
budster101
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 07:04 PM
 
Yikes! CS1. I meant CS1. The next version should be cool!! CS3...
     
Superchicken  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 07:10 PM
 
So wait... CS despite being PS 8 is cool as was 7... but CS2 won't be?
     
budster101
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois might be cold and flat, but at least it's ugly.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 24, 2005, 07:27 PM
 
I like it. I want it.
     
Kevin
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2005, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
Isn't CS even numbered though?
CS2's splashscreen says "Version 9"
     
:XI:
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2005, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by KevinK
We don't want you touching us.
Really? Are you sure? You might be missing out.

on the sig.

Heh, I just realised who you are. Sneaky bastard.
     
Kevin
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2005, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by :XI:
Heh, I just realised who you are. Sneaky bastard.
Yeah.. I even announced it before I did it.

I just passed mass hallucinogen gas out to make everyone forget.

I am that good.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2005, 01:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by KevinK
CS2's splashscreen says "Version 9"
And CS was version 8, so yep. But maybe the CS numbers count for the Creative Suite?

Who knows? I didn't come up with the rule.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
:XI:
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2005, 01:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by KevinK
Yeah.. I even announced it before I did it.

I just passed mass hallucinogen gas out to make everyone forget.

I am that good.
Like I said before, I have better things to do than stalk you. I don't read every post you make and I don't intend to try.
     
Kevin
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 25, 2005, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by :XI:
Like I said before, I have better things to do than stalk you. I don't read every post you make and I don't intend to try.
I was only making a joke. No need to get your panties in a twist.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:57 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,