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mac gaming dead
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Caesar2099
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Oct 9, 2005, 12:59 PM
 
i haven't been to these forums in a while, but will someone tell me why mac gaming is dead?
     
Wiskedjak
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Oct 9, 2005, 01:26 PM
 
I don't think something that never lived can be dead ...
     
Flip500
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Oct 9, 2005, 03:04 PM
 
well it's probally going to be born when mactels come out.
     
swamibooba
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Oct 9, 2005, 03:26 PM
 
I'm usually into the more indie games, and there seems to be decent, though not spactacular choice of games. I still haven't found an interesting adventure game that isn't text-based or requires Classic to run.

As for the "Mac is dead?" question, it's a matter of marketshare. The few original games we have, though, are pretty cool
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Oct 9, 2005, 05:03 PM
 
[QUOTE=swamibooba]I'm usually into the more indie games, and there seems to be decent, though not spactacular choice of games. I still haven't found an interesting adventure game that isn't text-based or requires Classic to run./QUOT!!!E

What I miss about gaming non macs is the lack of Sports games!! I love sports games above all others - man would I kill for even a mac version of NHL or Madden NFL 2002!!!!
     
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Oct 9, 2005, 05:04 PM
 
What I miss about gaming non macs is the lack of Sports games!! I love sports games above all others - man would I kill for even a mac version of NHL or Madden NFL 2002!!!![/QUOTE]
     
jaydon34
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Oct 9, 2005, 06:34 PM
 
yup i have that same feeling also. Once mactels are released many games will be ported if not released at the same time for mac/windows
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James L
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Oct 9, 2005, 07:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by jaydon34
yup i have that same feeling also. Once mactels are released many games will be ported if not released at the same time for mac/windows

What makes you say that? Unless Apple is somehow going to start using DirectX and other Windows code it is still going to be a LOT of extra work to code for both platforms.
     
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Oct 9, 2005, 07:54 PM
 
uh... because with a mactel you can install windows on a 2nd partition or drive and boot directly into windows.
     
brokenjago
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Oct 9, 2005, 09:11 PM
 
He said ported to the Mac, as in Mac OS X, not dual booting into Windows.
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Oct 9, 2005, 09:15 PM
 
Well it's going to be really easy to code for both platforms, because both chips and all the hardware will use the SAME INSTRUCTIONS. Right now we have completely differnet chips and hardware than PCs, basically. That's why emulation is so painfully slow.
     
brokenjago
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Oct 9, 2005, 09:20 PM
 
DirectX != OpenGL

Porting the code will be easier, but it's not going to be easy. Unless the windows version uses OpenGL. Then it shouldn't be too hard, I'd imagine.
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Flip500
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Oct 9, 2005, 10:01 PM
 
yeah... i've said this a thousand times when ever the subject comes up... do you think there will be ANY way to mod/ change my 2003 1.07 iBook G4 so i can do something like run windows or play CS? No right..... ?
     
Chuckit
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Oct 9, 2005, 10:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by bad_quote
Well it's going to be really easy to code for both platforms, because both chips and all the hardware will use the SAME INSTRUCTIONS.
I don't see how that will make it easy. That has never been the biggest challenge. Cross-compilers have existed for a really long time.
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brokenjago
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Oct 9, 2005, 10:37 PM
 
yeah... i've said this a thousand times when ever the subject comes up... do you think there will be ANY way to mod/ change my 2003 1.07 iBook G4 so i can do something like run windows or play CS? No right..... ?
Nope.
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goMac
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Oct 9, 2005, 10:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Flip500
yeah... i've said this a thousand times when ever the subject comes up... do you think there will be ANY way to mod/ change my 2003 1.07 iBook G4 so i can do something like run windows or play CS? No right..... ?
Yes. Sell your iBook. Buy a PC.

Seriously. Windows can't run on a Mac Processor. It's not going to happen.

When the Intel iBooks come out buy one of those. Then you can dual boot.
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James L
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Oct 10, 2005, 12:27 AM
 
Yup, he did say ported. That does not mean dual booting Windows, it means a native app in OSX.

As has been mentioned above, having different chips was not the biggest problem, it was that most games rely very heavily on DirectX, which obviously does not run in OSX. The reason there are lengthy porting times are due to the conversion of games from DirectX to OpenGL. This is NOT going to change under Intel.
     
brokenjago
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Oct 10, 2005, 01:07 AM
 
Unless they're already OpenGL, like Doom 3!

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The iMac Man
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Oct 10, 2005, 10:45 AM
 
Mac gaming isn't dead... this forum is dead. Well, unless you like WoW... plenty of that to read here, that's for sure.
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Turias
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Oct 10, 2005, 12:29 PM
 
Here's an interesting New York Times article that actually discusses how WoW might be hurting the entire gaming industry since so many people are now only playing World of Warcraft and are no longer funneling their money into multiple games each month.

And yeah, I'm one of those people helping Blizzard take over...
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 10, 2005, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Turias
Here's an interesting New York Times article that actually discusses how WoW might be hurting the entire gaming industry since so many people are now only playing World of Warcraft and are no longer funneling their money into multiple games each month.

And yeah, I'm one of those people helping Blizzard take over...
It's a good thing too...recent games are awful. In fact, the downward trend started when 3D-acceleration vid cards hit the market. And shitload of terrible, terrible originals and remakes poured out from a bunch of unknown companies. On rare occasions, a good game came out (which, often enough, made it to Mac).

Anyways...

Gaming on Mac isn't dead. Gaming, period, is dead. A couple dozen good games came out in the last 3 years...most of them are console exclusives (and I'm thinking Nintendo here.)

I have no pity for the game developers that force fed the new generation of gamers the quantity over quality we've seen in the last 7 years. I'm glad Blizzard is driving them out of business. Good riddance. Let's go back to the golden era of gaming, circa early to mid-90s and apply the technology we have today to drive games with actual plots...

...oh, and hopefully developers will stop being scared of 2D gaming.
     
Chuckit
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Oct 10, 2005, 01:58 PM
 
I think the reason devs are "afraid" of 2D gaming is that, frankly, those games don't sell.
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Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 10, 2005, 02:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
I think the reason devs are "afraid" of 2D gaming is that, frankly, those games don't sell.
Better tell that to the Nintendo DS developers.
     
Chuckit
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Oct 10, 2005, 02:13 PM
 
First of all, handheld games don't reflect the needs of the general gaming community — remember the LCD-based handheld games of 15 years ago? Also, the PSP, whose games are primarily 3D, was doing a lot better last time I checked.
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The iMac Man
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Oct 10, 2005, 02:37 PM
 
Nintendo is for kids, which is why they make childish 2D side scrollers.

I was tired of that crap 10 years ago. When I need a 2D fix, I fire up an emulator on my PSP. Otherwise, I didn't pay $300 to play something that looks like it came from the early 90's.

Gaming isn't dead by a long shot... making a comment like that is purely ignorant. But, I can see already that you are a Nintendo fan, and yes, Nintendo is dead, so I can see why you think all gaming is all dead.
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Chuckit
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Oct 10, 2005, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by The iMac Man
Nintendo is for kids, which is why they make childish 2D side scrollers.

I was tired of that crap 10 years ago. When I need a 2D fix, I fire up an emulator on my PSP. Otherwise, I didn't pay $300 to play something that looks like it came from the early 90's.
See what I mean? Unfortunately, a lot of people share this attitude. Personally, I think many of those 2D games from the early '90s are a hell of a lot better than most games now, but games like that are no longer viable for making money, unfortunately (unless you have them already developed and just need to repackage them like Nintendo and Sega).
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Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 11, 2005, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by The iMac Man
Nintendo is for kids, which is why they make childish 2D side scrollers.

I was tired of that crap 10 years ago. When I need a 2D fix, I fire up an emulator on my PSP. Otherwise, I didn't pay $300 to play something that looks like it came from the early 90's.

Gaming isn't dead by a long shot... making a comment like that is purely ignorant. But, I can see already that you are a Nintendo fan, and yes, Nintendo is dead, so I can see why you think all gaming is all dead.
If you say so.
     
JoshuaZ
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Oct 12, 2005, 01:18 AM
 
Blah, I agree. If you want a ton of bad games, get a PC. Do you really need 30 HALO clones to say that `gaming is alive on the Mac`?
     
Flip500
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Oct 12, 2005, 06:36 AM
 
Well, I partly agree with the iMac and, and Partly with everone else... I think Mac gaming is a 6 year old, and windows is a 20 year old, we just need to "mature". And I do think this will happen over time.
     
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:11 AM
 
Have any of you guys tried "GOOBALL"? It's a pretty sweet game with a very original concept. It's the first game I've purchased in years.
     
andreadeca
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
I don't see how that will make it easy. That has never been the biggest challenge. Cross-compilers have existed for a really long time.
Chuck,
there is NO association between the chip an operating system runs on and the way you code APPLICATIONS for the operating system

In order to make it easy to write/port code both for Windoze and Mac, they would have to use the same libraries, and I don't see MAC moving to directx anytime soon, and not all games use OpenGL.

So no, moving to intel will not make it easier to port games, sorry.

...but you wil be able to dualboot which will be cool.

andrea
     
Chuckit
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:55 AM
 
Why was that addressed to me? Didn't you basically say what I said except using three more paragraphs?
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sieb
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Oct 13, 2005, 03:00 AM
 
Gaming is dead? Hardly.. Half-life2, WoW, EQ2, Doom3, Quake4, Sims2, Star Wars, FEAR, City of Heros, Civ, CoD, AoE, Flightsims.. on and on.. Console games are the ones that are usually burried under constant rehashes of the same style over and over.. How many fighting games do we need? But in general, both markets are the same, a few winners, a whole lotta loosers. Same goes for software. Games require as much development work and money as most movies nowadays.

On PCs at the moment, the games are trying to catch up to the hardware, so until then, we wont see much thats "revolutionary" in terms of visuals or dynamics. Its just too costly to build a game for a selected few with the latest hardware. Most games are still made to run on P2s.. And most devs won't bother porting a game to a Mac when they can get more return from porting to a console. Its just the nature of the market.
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rhombus
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Oct 13, 2005, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Caesar2099
i haven't been to these forums in a while, but will someone tell me why mac gaming is dead?
Because of this
     
The iMac Man
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Oct 13, 2005, 10:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by sieb
Gaming is dead? Hardly.. Half-life2, WoW, EQ2, Doom3, Quake4, Sims2, Star Wars, FEAR, City of Heros, Civ, CoD, AoE, Flightsims.. on and on.. Console games are the ones that are usually burried under constant rehashes of the same style over and over.. How many fighting games do we need? But in general, both markets are the same, a few winners, a whole lotta loosers. Same goes for software. Games require as much development work and money as most movies nowadays.

On PCs at the moment, the games are trying to catch up to the hardware, so until then, we wont see much thats "revolutionary" in terms of visuals or dynamics. Its just too costly to build a game for a selected few with the latest hardware. Most games are still made to run on P2s.. And most devs won't bother porting a game to a Mac when they can get more return from porting to a console. Its just the nature of the market.

Read the subject again dude.... he said MAC gaming is dead....
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noreturn
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Oct 15, 2005, 07:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Why was that addressed to me? Didn't you basically say what I said except using three more paragraphs?
Nice.

Mac gaming is dead, because in order for you to play a game to PC standards, you need at least a G5. People are better off just getting a PC, seeing as you'd get better selection, anyways.
     
Taipan
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Oct 15, 2005, 11:13 AM
 
Hi!

I remember having read something about Microsoft dropping OpenGL support in Windows completely, but I'm not sure where. Might have been an article about Vista.
     
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Oct 15, 2005, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by sieb
Gaming is dead? Hardly.. Half-life2, WoW, EQ2, Doom3, Quake4, Sims2, Star Wars, FEAR, City of Heros, Civ, CoD, AoE, Flightsims.. on and on.. Console games are the ones that are usually burried under constant rehashes of the same style over and over.. How many fighting games do we need? But in general, both markets are the same, a few winners, a whole lotta loosers. Same goes for software. Games require as much development work and money as most movies nowadays.

On PCs at the moment, the games are trying to catch up to the hardware, so until then, we wont see much thats "revolutionary" in terms of visuals or dynamics.

Oh shit...you gotta be kidding me. You embody everything that's wrong with gaming today.

Claiming consoles only have rehashes and PC games are original is absolutely wrong (well, wrong if you've been playing Nintendo titles and realize the exclusive titles on the Gamecube are original compared to the **** out on PS2 and xbox.) There's nothing original about PC games these days. The original games come out on the Gamecube and the DS and even more original games will come out on Revolution. PS2, xbox, PS3 and xbox 360 will have the same problem PC games have...ports, rehashes, and visuals over actual plots of game simplicity.

The reason why old games and 2D gaming was so great was because back then you couldn't do fancy visual effects. Developers back then focused on storylines and gameplay. Games today are a developer's pissing contest. Who can make the game with the most visual effects and the worst plot and gameplay.

Of course, I'm overgeneralizing...there are some excellent games today...just not as many as there were 10-15 years ago.
     
lamewing
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Oct 17, 2005, 12:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by Flip500
well it's probally going to be born when mactels come out.
deleted by lamewing
( Last edited by lamewing; Oct 17, 2005 at 12:10 AM. )
     
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Oct 17, 2005, 12:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
See what I mean? Unfortunately, a lot of people share this attitude. Personally, I think many of those 2D games from the early '90s are a hell of a lot better than most games now, but games like that are no longer viable for making money, unfortunately (unless you have them already developed and just need to repackage them like Nintendo and Sega).
Wow, and I thought that gaming was making more money now than the movie business.
     
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Oct 17, 2005, 06:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing
Wow, and I thought that gaming was making more money now than the movie business.

I wouldn't doubt it...most game developers complete forget about the 'story' part of the game. That's gotta be a cost saver.
     
The iMac Man
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Oct 17, 2005, 11:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing
Wow, and I thought that gaming was making more money now than the movie business.
That's not even close to true.
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Oct 18, 2005, 06:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by LameWing
Wow, and I thought that gaming was making more money now than the movie business.
Originally Posted by The iMac Man
That's not even close to true.
Originally Posted by SlashDot Dec 19, '04
This SF Gate story says stacks of new releases for hungry video game enthusiasts mean it's boom time for an industry now even bigger than Hollywood. The $10 billion video game industry, which generates more revenue than Hollywood, has never released so many highly anticipated blockbuster titles in a single season. It started in August with the game title Doom 3, followed by The Sims 2 in September, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas in October, then Halo 2, Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Half-Life 2 last month. In November, sales of video games rose to $849 million, an 11 percent increase from the same month last year and up 77 percent from October, according to the industry research firm NPD Funworld. The industry set a milestone last month when Microsoft's Halo 2 -- a sequel to a futuristic game with an elaborate plot that pits humans against invading aliens -- surpassed Hollywood's opening-weekend movie box office record in just one day of sales.

It appears to be a fact that revenue wise games are as big as Hollywood now, but games are not movies. The average movie ticket costs about $10 (at the most) but the average game costs $50. One million people watch a movie and that's $10 million in the bank, one million people buy a game and it equals to $50 million. On top of that, games have a different budget and cost structure compared to Hollywood films. All of these unknowns makes it hard to judge but I think everyone can be certain that the games industry has a turnover in the same ballpark as the movie business if not bigger.

Now which makes more profits.... as we all know that is a different kettle of fish
     
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Nov 15, 2005, 06:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by swamibooba
I'm usually into the more indie games, and there seems to be decent, though not spactacular choice of games. I still haven't found an interesting adventure game that isn't text-based or requires Classic to run.

As for the "Mac is dead?" question, it's a matter of marketshare. The few original games we have, though, are pretty cool
I have also been looking for interesting adventrure game that isn't text-based or requires Classic to run
     
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Nov 15, 2005, 12:16 PM
 
Well what the situation seems to be is that the Mac is marketed more as a media machine and not a gaming machine. Not to say that it's not capable, because they have the hardware. I'm sorry you don't need a 128MB video card to run any media app that Apple has come up with(correct me if I'm wrong). That's the kind of hardware you put into a gaming machine. As to my assumption about the future of Mac gaming, they may see the new Mactel machines as a way to circumvent this whole gaming controversy. But frankly dual-booting is a royal pain in the arse. I did it when I ran linux, and eventually I just switched over to open source games exclusively. What they need to do is get developers to write for Mac alongside Windows if they want to get anywhere in gaming. But for now they have just enough titles to keep us occupied, and prevent a total uproar because I don't think gaming will be one of their focuses any time soon. And if Mac starts heading downhill I'd atribute it to gaming, or lack thereof.

On a sidenote M$ is keeping their stake in the gaming by making sure Virtual PC is effectively useless (namely when it comes to 3D), because just about the only thing you can do with it is basic tasks that you can easily do from the Mac.
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Nov 15, 2005, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by triskele
Well what the situation seems to be is that the Mac is marketed more as a media machine and not a gaming machine. Not to say that it's not capable, because they have the hardware. I'm sorry you don't need a 128MB video card to run any media app that Apple has come up with(correct me if I'm wrong).
You are right 128MB as far as I know is not the minimum spec on any Apple software although I would not want to run motion on anything with less than a 128MB card in it (preferably even higher).

Originally Posted by triskele
On a sidenote M$ is keeping their stake in the gaming by making sure Virtual PC is effectively useless (namely when it comes to 3D), because just about the only thing you can do with it is basic tasks that you can easily do from the Mac.
This is not M$ being slow rather a technical issue, Windows takes direct control of hardware like graphics cards, on the Mac you cannot do this. This means you cannot get hardware accelerated graphics without overcoming a long list of problems. To name a few..
  1. Direct hardware access denied on OS X v.s. XP
  2. If you do access the hardware directly you need PC graphics drivers for Mac cards. (not impossible but many ATi cards have a different layout and setup)
  3. It will always be slow on PPC as it is emulating a x86 chip. When a game needs a 3GHz P4 you will never be able to emulate this on a 2.0GHz G5.
  4. Sound you have to do all this in the CPU as Mac's don't have sound cards. (Even if they did you would have the hardware access issue.) For example most games on the Mac use at least 20% CPU on sound!
  5. Emulation will never be as fast as running on native hardware, as games are normally "on the limit" emulation for new games on another platform will never be fast.

When Apple have x86 is might get easier for *some* things but making a fast emulator is not 1,2,3 done! Imagine the amount of effort porting a game now times it by a factor of about 100 you have the problem M$ have.
     
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Nov 17, 2005, 12:23 PM
 
The thing that really sucks about having a Mac is the fact that you CANT play great games like Half Life 2 or Quake on a Mac. I've got this Mac and a PC I built and I definetely prefer the PC for high powered games, but I play poker on my Mac.
     
The iMac Man
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Nov 17, 2005, 02:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by frankie tot
The thing that really sucks about having a Mac is the fact that you CANT play great games like Half Life 2 or Quake on a Mac. I've got this Mac and a PC I built and I definetely prefer the PC for high powered games, but I play poker on my Mac.

Uhm, you can play Quake on a Mac....
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Nov 17, 2005, 08:18 PM
 
Well, I'd hardly call Half-Life or Quake "great games". For me that type of games have mostly killed any originality we could have before in the gaming world. Today every other game is an First Person Shooter, and they're the only ones that companies bother porting. Every franchise that is bought turns into an FPS game.

Look at some shareware or less known commercial games for some excellent entertainment. Find info on "Gish" for one fantastic physics/platform game, and there are many less known but excellent shooter, arcade, platform games from companies that make the effort to develop great playability for the Mac. Go have a look on Versiontracker and equivalent sites. So I guess it's more about which type of gaming you are into.

But what's the deal with having so much difficulty simply connecting a gamepad to a Mac?

As far as game ports, I'd love for some companies to port games such as Silent Storm and sequel, and other soon to be released, less known games with fantastic gameplay, and why not port some sports? There are plenty of tennis game to be ported.

Get those FPS out of my sight.
     
SuvsareRetarded
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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Nov 17, 2005, 09:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Delabio
I have also been looking for interesting adventrure game that isn't text-based or requires Classic to run
Check into that indiana jones game.
     
 
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