[bkb]

Thanks buddy.

The part about not needing to uninstall programs sounds great. it's all coming back to me

if i remember correctly, when i go into my hard drive, i used to be able to move the files around as much as i wanted, without affecting the program. unlike in Windoze of course, where if you move something around you get the 'searching for target' pop-up. what a pain in the ass. is this still how it works?. oh and since you're talking - please tell me more about the file storage system. that is, how does it compare to windows. are there folders which i shouldn't tinker with? etc...

another thing is maintainance? does apple provide good programs to maintain your computer or should i invest in norton systemworks as i do with my pc (which is going out the window). if so, how should i use them. tell all!

Thanks.

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
No no you can put the CD in before you only need to put it in right away if the machine is shut down. Furthermore you could simmly hold down the option key too and let the machine search for all avaiable startup disks.

No need to complicate things for a "new-again" Mac user...I explained it step-by-step above and that should suit him just fine to re-install OS X w/o Classic...for furture reference however, if you want to boot from a FireWire drive or whatnot, holding the "Option" key as stated will allow you to select which disk to boot from.

[AssassyN]

bkb, yeah man, you can move docs., pics. programs, etc. basically anywhere you want w/o worrying about the pop-up that's common w/ Windows.

And for files you should just leave alone, the "System" folder, the "Library" folder (for the most part...there may be some rare occasion you wanna go in here, such as installing a screen saver or removing an iTunes playlist, but the screen savers typically give guides to installation). And also, it's a tad confusing at first how your Macintosh HD and your "Home" are seperate...there's a folder labeled "Documents" in each, and it can be sligtly confusing, but after you doubleclick your Mac HD icon, there's a icon always right there that says "Home"...you'll see when it arrives

Maintaining your Mac shouldn't be an issue. Apple provides "Disk Utility" that can repair any weird issues w/ your HD and repair permissions if somehow your admin status gets screwy w/ the protected folders you may have. I don't use ANY 3rd party software on my Mac like SystemWorks...everything just works man, no need to defrag nightly, run system checks, virus scans, etc...you'll see what I mean, everything just happens. Macs don't tend to built up useless files that eat up cache & resources like Windows do either.

[LfGrdMike]

AssasyN, I wasnt complicating things.

Would It not be easier if the computer is on like I said to slip the CD in. Then you dont need to worry about complicating things. If the machine is shut down then do what you say an dput it in on startup. I was simply giving him less worries if the comptuer was on before doing this.

So it is not making things more difficult in anyway.

Allow me to reccomend OnyX from www.versiontracker.com

BUT
Don't use this for anything but running cron scripts and cleaning up caches once a month.

Laptops aren't on 24/7 so they don't run the cron jobs when they are supposed to. This will allow you to run these very important tasks. Its very easy.

[AssassyN]

Usually, yes, but you're forgetting one thing. It'll be the FIRST bootup ever. Thus, it'll try to go to that splash intro screen asking him to register and such, which he doesn't want to do yet if he's gonna turn right around and re-install the OS, as he'd have to do that all over again...it's much simpler to catch it BEFORE the first bootup, reinstall w/o Classic, then bootup, complete registration, etc.

[bkb]

It all makes sense. i'm sure i'll have questions in a couple days when my 12" superdrive arrives. looking forward to it even more now, that you mentioned that the heat issue has beent taken care of. that was my biggest concern. looks like you answered my question on the file system (before i asked it). if you need a referal to work for mac, you konw where to get it.

thanks for your info. i wish FedEX had GPS tracking. i could pinpoint it's location across the pacific. now that would be something.

[AssassyN]

Sounds good man, glad I could help...just post any other Q's you may have here when it arrives.

And yeah, you can never get enough tracking info...I probably almost crashed FedEx.com's server from refreshing it so much when my first Mac was on it's way.

[LfGrdMike]

Thats ridiculiouus just delete the system folder and it will work. Thats what my friend did. And delete Applications mac os 9

Why reinstall now thats stupid when Panther is around the corner. As long as you plan on getting panther its a waste of time for you to remove classic at this point in time. Just use your machine. Then when you install panther dont install those BS languages you dont need and stuff. Then dont install the system folder. You cant uninstall classic but you can uninstall the system folder. I wouldnt reccomend using terminal either to remove the classic pane in system prefs. It takes up little to know space on todays HDs, hell even the system folder itself doesnt take up a lot of space. 300mb i think but eh just wait for panther.

Panther has a new file system and it would be a good idea to wipe and install. This lessen the probablility of getting problems in the first place.

[dreamBweaver]

Assasyn, I found your review interesting. Too bad my school didn't have a price mistake too. I am proud to say that I think the PB12" is the best machine I could conceive of using at college. I'm enjoying mine immensely. Good luck with the upgrade.

[AssassyN]

Wow, that last post by LfGrdMike is so hard to comprehend I can't tell if you're right or wrong in your own logic...at any rate, to bkb, I'd just recommend keeping Classic installed. When OS X 10.3 "Panther" is released this winter, you'll be deleting your "Jaguar" anyways, and replacing w/ Panther most likely. And as stated, Classic takes up hardly no room. A simpler way to go about it is to just boot the computer up as normal, go into Macintosh HD, and Delete the folders "OS 9" and "Applications (OS 9)" that you'll find there. This will do the trick (forgot about this earlier).

[AssassyN]

dreamBweaver, definitely man! The 12" PB seems to have been designed for college, 'cause it's the perfect machine to have here where mobility and lightweight are vital.

[LfGrdMike]

Ok AssassyN, thats exactly what I said! Sure I had to type it fast, but it wasnt hard to figure out despite the mistakes. Its not like i'm writing a term paper dude.


Whatever... it doesn't matter. Funny though you didn't say this before. You were originally telling him to wipe his HD then you side with me.


Their also is no folder named OS9
The folders he needs to delete are the following three.

/System Folder
/Applications (Mac OS 9)
/Documents (NOTE this holds OS9 documents you will likely have nothing in their just delete this.)

[AssassyN]

Hehe, just kiddin' with ya man...welp, off to Calculus class 'til 8:50pm...dang night courses!

BTW, notice my last line up there in parentheses (forgot about this earlier). I picked up one what you said, but just restated it simpler. Granted, wiping his HD does the exact same thing, and it's not a bad practice for future reference.

[bkb]

LfGrdMike - seems you're looking for a fight

AssassyN - Thanks.

Both of you - Thanks for clarifying my concern of having Classic on there (since it is no use to me). Clearly, since I will need to wipe the whole thing to install Panther (in 30 days? when winter comes? who know...) the best thing is to use it as is, and then wipe it. Somehow I doubt that Mac will force users upgrading from Jaguar to Panther to wipe. there must be a simple way to upgrade w/o lossing info on your computer, correct? if yes, what is the advantage of wiping first?

Another thing is, in my experience of using Windows, the Upgrade CD doesn't have as much on it as the Full Version. Do you think Panther's upgrade version will be stripped down? And if so - will a wipe & install be viable?

Last point, the guy at the mac store told me to wait 2-4 months before going for Panther. He says he always does this as new OSs can be unstable/bugged. What is your experience?

Thanks.

[LfGrdMike]

I know im bad on forums. I really am not a bad writer, but I dont take the time to look over what I write.

Sorry for flaming you

Ok so what you will want to do is the following. Start up your new pet and go through the setup assistant process.

Once you are guided through do the following.

Note "/" what is in quotes is a file path name for the window you c when you open your HD. In technical terms this means the root directory.

Delete the following folders in the Macintosh HD window.

/System Folder
/Documents
/Applications (Mac OS 9)

Empty the trash no need to restart because well it doesn't matter lol.

Removing classic is possible, but it take up maybe 20mb or less. Not a lot on todays HD's also if you remove these components i can assure you the following. When you patch OSX you will have problems. You see the patcher wont see the classic components, and the outcome will be; crash, or a hosed system.

Though you can delete OS9 then classic wont find a system folder, and therefore can't work without a system folder.

[LfGrdMike]

Up above are the easy instructions. You will save 500MB so its 1/2 a gig.

One other thing

When you install panther make sure to install it with one language, or any other launguages you want. The install will be quicker, and you will save a lot of space. If you don't know spanish why install it. Get my drift. I don't know how customizeable (dont feel like spell checking that word right now.) the new OS will be in the installer. I imagine it will be able to do a slightly more than what the current OSX installer allows you to do. Although you really shouldnt bother with anything else. Just disable those languages in the installer. Bottom line they aren't needed.

I love solving problems, and I am good at it. I know the OS like the back of my hand. So when AssassyN seemed like he was taking credit for what I said, I felt like I got burned. Sorry man didn't realise you were joking.

Im sensitive in this area of the mac lol. I guess its because I know it very well.

Do you want to delete your invisible files that relate to OS9 too. I can help you with that.

basically all give you the commands and youtype then into terminal. keep in mind they take up little space and if your wiping your HD anyway its not needed.

[chrisutley]

Look in the battery compartment, I think the SN might be in there.

Originally posted by videian28:
once again very nice info from AssassyN, I to am very happy with my rev b 12"... almost more so than I was with my rev a 17"

one thing of note that is almost comical is that I work in a secure environment for the governement, and they require a serial number check on all incoming and outgoing laptops.. well the apple is so clean that there are no serial numbers to be seen on the outside (or anything for that matter)

wake it up and go into system profile is the only wy to check it

oh well, I prefer it that way....now to get pounded on by all the network weenies in thier windows world

[LfGrdMike]

A life guard fight, Why I am supposed to be calm and solve the situationin a peaceful manner. Of course I am allowed to pounce like a panther if I am punched.

This panther may not pounce but Apples Panther will. ROAR.

LOL It may be corny but you know that was funny.

[LfGrdMike]

The serial number is on the box, in Apple System Profiler, and where that other guy said, Under the batter compartment. Apple System Profiler is located in,
/Applications/Utilities

Scratch that look in about this mac for the serial and it under the apple menu my bad, Still apple system profiler is an important thing to know about.

[fisherKing]

assassyN, thanx for all the grea..
wait a minute. you've posted 3142 times since january 2003??

what are you studying at school,
forum posting??

[AssassyN]

Heh, yeah, I post a lot...I do loads of homework on my computer, thus I have MacNN in the background, so it's easy to rack up posts w/ all these great threads that start.

[fisherKing]

me too (altho i post a lot less);
with safari, i keep a dozen things open at once, and, since i work on my powerbook (and work 10-15 hours a day), i am constantly putzing about online...

& love it.

[rgl]

Hey AssassyN,

I see you're from NC and got a great deal on your PB through your university. Would you happen to be a student at UNC-Chapel Hill? I work there and got the great deal on the 12-inch PB, too, and am loving it! It replaces my 800 mhz/640 MB iBook which, truth be told, is a great machine in its own right and was perfectly sufficient for my needs -- but the lure of the PB deal was too much! What's cool is that I sold the iBook to a neighbor -- a UNC prof and former Windows user.

Thanks much for your detailed review -- even though I never used a rev A 12-incher, it's good to know that rev B makes a great machine even greater.

[DekuDekuplex]

Thorough review, AssassyN.

Why don't you post it on epinions.com? If you keep posting there, you can eventually get paid! I myself posted a review on the Rev. A 17-inch PowerBook there a few months ago.

DekuDekuplex

[Lizard7]

Great report! How's the airport range? I read a post somewhere claiming it was worse than the Rev. A. I certainly hope that's not the case...

[LeeG]

Thanks for the great review. I decided to get a 12" in July, my first powerbook - mac user since IIsi, 1992. But I decided, I didn't need the machine immediately, so I'd hold off until rev B. Well they made me wait, and I finally ordered 9/16. Now I am delayed again - sounds like the 80GB BTO is the prob - but it's killing me! I want my new book.

btw - why WOULDN'T you get the 80 Gb BTO? Seems like a no brainer to me - $113 edu, for double the drive space?

I have the 512 ram stick from crucial on my desk, and I plan to order from sfbags.com, just need the book...

anxiously waiting-

Lee

[schk]

Originally posted by LeeG:

btw - why WOULDN'T you get the 80 Gb BTO? Seems like a no brainer to me - $113 edu, for double the drive space?

He bought it at his campus store, so stock machines only.

[StayWhatYouAre]

Great review mate,

much appreciated from everyone.

I'm really considering selling my ibook for the 12' when panther is announced.

Ads.

[bih]

I just got my 12inch PB today in the mail. It's perfect.

[sghms]

AssassyN

Cheers for anwering my question earlier regarding gaming perfomance vis a vis the new 12" and rev A 17"

One final question before I decide to take the plunge. Since you have had both the 17" and the new 12", do you find their performance to be similar ? Or is one def faster than the other ?

Reason I ask, is becuase I can trade in the 17" for the 12" (with superdrive,768 RAM, AE and 80Gb) for virtually free, as I would appreciate the portability around college etc, however only if performance is roughly similar. I don't want a huge performance hit trading to the 12"

Can you help o wise one

[AssassyN]

rgl, welcome to the MacNN Forums! And actually, I am a student at the university that made you guys 0-4 in football last Saturday, hahaha, your arch rival, NC State. But it's quite possible both of our university's had this insane deal, so nice job on grabbing it!

DekuDekuplex, I just may do that, thanks for the tip!

Lizard7, welp, as a matter of fact I'm sitting in Psychology right now typing this over my college's WiFi network, and the range is tremendous. It's exactly like my Rev. A...3-4 bars all over my campus, basically regardless of location, it's astounding...any rumors you heard are definitely untrue, the range is amazing.

LeeG, best of luck waiting! I actually didn't get the 80GB drive because I knew it'd delay things, and I have no need for 80GB on a mobile machine...I use my desktop for large storage...as simple as it is to FireWire info. from machine to machine, I just opted for the 40GB, which is plenty for my mobile machine.

schk, correction...I ordered it through my Campus Store, not purchased an in-stock model. I actually ordered mine BTO w/ an AirPort card...the only diff. was my university placed the order, not myself.

StayWhatYouAre, thanks man! If you trade your iBook in, definitely do it for a Rev. B 12" PB...you won't regret the upgrade!

bih, congrats, and enjoy!

sghms, no problem! I was actually VERY surprised to notice that this Rev. B 12" PB performs exactly like my Rev. A 17" PB, if not a tiny bit faster in launching apps. and such thanks to double the L2 cache. If you get 768MB RAM in it, you won't notice a performance hit at all in changing from a Rev. A 17" PB to a Rev. B 12" PB. The *only* area in which the 12" PB will show slightly weaker is gaming; rather than being able to play at 1024 w/ max details, you'll probably only get to use medium details, but honestly, that's no big deal, the games still run great and look just fine also. If you're on campus and need mobility, get this! The trade-off will definitely make itself worth it w/ how mobile this machine is, and as I said, the performance here is right on par w/ the Rev. A 17" PB.

...Phew, all caught up...now I gotta pay attention to this lecture

[AssassyN]

And just an update on a more in-depth review of battery life...one word: "WOW"!!!!

I opened up my PB from sleep at 7:55am here in Psychology, *max* brightness, opened up Word for typing notes, turned AirPort on, opened Safari, and have been typing/working nonstop. As of 8:55am (exactly one hour) it went from 98% to 76%, a mere 22% drop in an hour! At this exact rate, the machine could last 3 more hours and have been on & used for 4 hours straight and still have 12% left...absolutely amazing!

[Sakino]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
And just an update on a more in-depth review of battery life...one word: "WOW"!!!!

I opened up my PB from sleep at 7:55am here in Psychology, *max* brightness, opened up Word for typing notes, turned AirPort on, opened Safari, and have been typing/working nonstop. As of 8:55am (exactly one hour) it went from 98% to 76%, a mere 22% drop in an hour! At this exact rate, the machine could last 3 more hours and have been on & used for 4 hours straight and still have 12% left...absolutely amazing!

You are getting over 4 houra of battery life with your 12 inch pb. How is that possible when teh 15 inch pbs cannot even get 2. What about 17 inch pbs, whats their battery life?

[AssassyN]

Sakino, notice, I didn't say I *got* 4 hours, I just said it only drained 22% in an hour of hard usage, and if it could continue at that rate, it'd surpass 4 hours on a single charge. Plus, the new 15" AlBooks are constantly showing horrible battery life...many users here are complaining w/ under 2 hours of life from a single charge. As for the 17" PB, my Rev. A lasted around 2-2.5 hours, depending on usage, but you must realize, it has a much larger screen to keep lit up.

[Sakino]

AssassyN - Would you suggest the 12 inch powerbook over the 15 inch with the current problems? I currently have a 15 inch al powerbook with all the problems, as i posted in my other thread. I might be calling apple today and just asking them to replace it with a different model.
I cannot stand having under 2 hours of battery life on a laptop, thats why I got a fricken apple.

[AssassyN]

I couldn't bear a notebook w/ less than 2 hours of battery life either. However, I doubt Apple will switch you out...they'll probably want you to send it in for repair. The 15" vs. 12" PB is debateable, however it's very safe to say the 12" PB has superior battery life and is definitely the most mobile PowerBook.

[drotsap]

Assasyn,

I too wanna thank you for ur *awesome* review. Mine is coming tomorrow (hopefully).

One question about the mini DVI: can u attach it to Apple ADC monitor with the lid closed? Just wondering if I could make it like a desktop with the lid closed and BT keyboard and mouse.

Thanks heaps from Down Under,


dan

[AssassyN]

drotsap, Hey there mate! Welcome to the MacNN Boards! Yep, you most certainly can do that...just plug the mini-DVI adapter into the PowerBook, shut the lid, plug the end of the DVI-to-ADC adapter into your mini-DVI adapter, hit the Space bar on your keyboard (once you've plugged your mouse/keyboard in after closing the lid) and it'll work like a desktop! As for using Bluetooth, you may need to close the lid AFTER attaching the display. Congrats on getting your PB, hope it makes it to ya by tomorrow!

[LfGrdMike]

Hey AssassyN perhaps the bug in the latest builds of Jaguar that were released .7 and .8 does not effect the 12. Im sure your aware of this, and what version did you stick with. This probably is a dumb question sense .8 was pulled still I am curious to know if perhaps you still had the combo updater for .8 saved when you got it for that matter.

[sghms]

Originally posted by AssassyN:

sghms, no problem! I was actually VERY surprised to notice that this Rev. B 12" PB performs exactly like my Rev. A 17" PB, if not a tiny bit faster in launching apps. and such thanks to double the L2 cache. If you get 768MB RAM in it, you won't notice a performance hit at all in changing from a Rev. A 17" PB to a Rev. B 12" PB. The *only* area in which the 12" PB will show slightly weaker is gaming; rather than being able to play at 1024 w/ max details, you'll probably only get to use medium details, but honestly, that's no big deal, the games still run great and look just fine also. If you're on campus and need mobility, get this! The trade-off will definitely make itself worth it w/ how mobile this machine is, and as I said, the performance here is right on par w/ the Rev. A 17" PB.

Cheers for the quick and detailed reply. Its good to know there isn't a performance hit Now to do some wheeling and dealing to get hold of this machine Thanks for your help

[madhu]

AssassyN: Thanks a tonn for all the info buddy.

Let me give you a brief about my profile...
I am from INDIA, and have been dabbling around buying a Mac for over a while.
Mac is not amongst the popular laptops because of all the Windows Freaks. It took me a lote more than regular time to convince my dad to go for a powerbook.
Anyways, I have decided to pick up a powerboox 12" at the earliest.
But, because of the scaring population of the Wintel Users, I was concerned about the softwares. Those are not as easily available as Windows applications, but a friend of mine told me that he would help me out with that...

But could you please provide me with some light as to the benifits of a powerbook compared to other laptops .
I'll have to tell you that the price is equally expensive as IBM/Dell/Compaq/Sony laptops down here...
But, I am sure that it is a mark ahead than the rest.

I have been looking for quite some time to have my questinos answered from someone knowledgible about Mac, and I understand I could not reach a better place than your inbox... *:-)*

I intent to purchase a 12" PB Combo. I have a AMD 1800+ PC.
I am working, and would have to slog extra hours at office to get the work down, and thats the main reason i wanna buy a notebook for myself...

Please advise...you could drop in at [email protected] please.

thanks.

[drotsap]

Assasyn,

Thanks for lightning fast reply :-D

One more question: would the memory in my white iBook work with the new 12" PB? If not, what kind of memory should I look for that would be compatible (trying to get a good deal from eBay or something). Do u recommend any particular brand or any brand will do? thanks.

[AssassyN]

LfGrdMike, I stuck w/ the included 10.2.7 and it's worked great.

sghms, good luck man! And let us know if you do land a new 12" PB!

madhu, unfortunately I'm being forced to run to class, but expect a reply either here or in your email around 3-3:30pm If you're not in my time zone, about 3 hours after this post.

drotsap, sadly, the iBook RAM won't work. The only RAM that works in these 12" PBs is DDR266 SODIMMs, and I'd *highly* recommend buying from www.18004memory.com as that's where I got the RAM in my 12" PB right now cheapest and it's worked flawlessly. Get the general stick too, not the "HyperSpeed"...no need in spending extra cash you don't have to. At that site you can select the PB (the new Rev. B 1Ghz 12" PB and the old Rev. A 867Mhz 12" PB both use IDENTICAL RAM) and so if they haven't updated their page yet, selecting the RAM for the 867Mhz 12" PB will send you the right kind.

[LfGrdMike]

Everyone go check my battery thread on the forums its very important everyone read this. This is very good news for people who have been getting migranes over this prb. It hasnt effected me too much despite i got it jumping all over the place, but this is good news.

[amazing]

Great review!

For those of us who are hesitating because of battery life, I'm hoping everyone who has a new 12" wouldn't mind installing X-Charge to really monitor battery life. The menubar times are notoriously inaccurate, and this little freeware will graph your battery life over time:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15982

It's a neat way to see how your energy saver options affect your battery life. And don't forget to post back here! (thanks in advance)

[amazing]

One other suggestion for those getting the 12" with the large HD: Erase it and install 2 partiitions. That way you can have Jaguar on one partition and Panther on the other. No worries about any possible instability with Panther, cause you'll always be able to startup off the jaguar partition.

I don't think I'd do it on a 40 GB HD, one partition would be too small?? Well, maybe I would anyway... The system you plan on using the most should be on the first partition, it's faster.

[madhu]

Hey, Thanks a tonn for that.
I work out of EST, I'll be around untill 1800 hrs EST.

I intend to purchase a standard Al 12" PB with Combo.

I could not find anyone knowledgible to answer my queries and concerns out here...(those windows users &*!@%^&*^!@#&*!@&#)

I could not find any good books and not sure where to find some e-books. I want to become a power user in Mac.

Here MS dominates, but I definitely want to break all barriers and start using Mac as my primary computer. Dig this, I am working for Dell, and though they would offer me a rebate/discount, i still want a Mac...

[iomatic]

Down with partitions! No partitions! ack...I HATE partitions; talk about inconvenience.

US$.02

Originally posted by amazing:
One other suggestion for those getting the 12" with the large HD: Erase it and install 2 partiitions. That way you can have Jaguar on one partition and Panther on the other. No worries about any possible instability with Panther, cause you'll always be able to startup off the jaguar partition.

I don't think I'd do it on a 40 GB HD, one partition would be too small?? Well, maybe I would anyway... The system you plan on using the most should be on the first partition, it's faster.

[LfGrdMike]

Well the battery soon wont be an issue as soon as apple patches jaguar. Also no dont partition because you cant reverse it once you want to get rid of jaguar. What I do is have an external HD with Jaguar and pantehr will be the main on the internal. The external has so many uses its really nice. then when panther seems good throw panther on teh external too. I wouldnt reccomend you partion HD. Although you can.

whats going to happen is your going to want more space on one of those partitions and will have to erase again. Just install panther it will be patched the day after its released to 10.3.1 caue their will bea few bugs especially when its released to the uesr base which is ver large.

[Jeff-Flowers]

Originally posted by iomatic:
Down with partitions! No partitions! ack...I HATE partitions; talk about inconvenience.

US$.02

No dude, it's all ABOUT convenience. All of my user files sit on their own parition. Backing up is a snap.