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Kerrigan · 04:53 PM

German opera house cancels provocative Mohammed staging

Berlin's Deutsche Oper has removed the provocative staging of a Mozart opera from its schedule for fear of enraging Muslims, the opera house said in a statement.

One of three opera houses in the German capital, it cancelled director Hans Neuenfels's production of "Idomeneo", a 1781 drama set in ancient Crete, because authorities warned it could present an "incalculable security risk".

In the staging, which sparked audience protests during its premiere in December 2003, King Idomeneo presents the lopped-off heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and the Prophet Mohammed and displays them on four chairs.

Is irony the correct word to describe this? Because we basically know what the outcome of this would be if the opera was shown to audiences: Muslims would start killing people and rioting, just like they did after the Pope's comment, or the Danish cartoons.

Nevertheless it is ironic that an 18th century "radical" depiction of the effects of religious violence is being sidelined in the 21st century for fear that it will cause religious violence (amongst third world peoples no less).

Also, it is interesting how timid Westerners are when it comes to offending fundamentalist Islam, but European audiences have generally received Madonna's mock crucifixion with enthusiasm.

Millennium · Sep 25, 2006, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Also, it is interesting how timid Westerners are when it comes to offending fundamentalist Islam, but European audiences have generally received Madonna's mock crucifixion with enthusiasm.

I wouldn't exactly call it "enthusiasm"; there's actually a fair bit of controversy. But no one is making death threats or rioting over it.

Yet in this, perhaps, the terrorists truly have won: people now fear Muslim reaction to things which shouldn't be of any real consequence, to the point where they actually cancel cultural events because a few people don't have a mature outlook on their own faith.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 25, 2006, 07:55 PM

Why don't the Germans just round up all the Muslims and...

Kerrigan · Sep 25, 2006, 09:19 PM

Knowing the Germans, they will (if this nonsense keeps up).

Spliffdaddy · Sep 25, 2006, 09:31 PM

damn. That means we'll have to give them a nation somewhere in the middle east.

voodoo · Sep 25, 2006, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Why don't the Germans just round up all the Muslims and...

that's what the Muslims really don't realize. I'm sure it could happen if they keep this up. Fortunately there are a lot of countries for them in the Middle East.

Push far enough and the dam bursts. It seemed such a solid and indestructable dam. Then it burst and drowned everything below.

V

CollinG3G4 · Sep 25, 2006, 11:36 PM

That is a bad ass opera by the way.

TETENAL · Sep 26, 2006, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by voodoo

Push far enough and the dam bursts.

Most muslims are not pushing anything though.

Politicians are the ones who are pushing. The poor manager of the opera has been called a coward.

Fear of Muslim Backlash: Fury as Berlin Opera Cancels Performance - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Kerrigan · Sep 26, 2006, 04:50 PM

Oh dear, fasten your seatbelts.

Dakar · Sep 26, 2006, 04:51 PM

I'm curious to see whether a mod censors that.

Kerrigan · Sep 26, 2006, 05:02 PM

If religious fanatics are going to cut off people heads in the name of religion, then it is a good thing to symbolically decapitate the source of that violence through artistic expression.

voodoo · Sep 26, 2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Most muslims are not pushing anything though.

Most muslims are. Mostly by standing silent while the extremists among them push. Inaction is condonement.

Simple as that. They are pushing, and my observation is simply that they can push too far. The European machine has never ever been quick on its feet, but when it has started it does not stop.

The World Wars were long in the making, but when they happened, they happened. The French revolution took some time before it happened but when it happened.. oh boy. The Spanish reconquista took 700 years.. but in the end.. all non-europeans were wiped out.

Historically we are very very patient and historically that has always been abused. When the abuse has reached a certain degree, something snaps and.. well. Destruction of those who oppose us. All of them. That's the usual goal.

For better or worse. All the moors of Spain, all the nobles of France, all the jews of Germany.. still waters run deep. Even though most Germans have been neutered, those who stood as conquerors after the WWII are far from impotent.

V

BRussell · Sep 26, 2006, 07:17 PM

It's actually the perfect experiment: Several major religions are "insulted" in exactly the same way. Which religion is likely to take offense?

voodoo · Sep 26, 2006, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

It's actually the perfect experiment: Several major religions are "insulted" in exactly the same way. Which religion is likely to take offense?

You're a psychologist?

V

itai195 · Sep 26, 2006, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by voodoo

For better or worse. All the moors of Spain, all the nobles of France, all the jews of Germany.. still waters run deep. Even though most Germans have been neutered, those who stood as conquerors after the WWII are far from impotent.

V

Well, okay, but the Jews in Germany did nothing to provoke such a reaction, I might point out.

voodoo · Sep 26, 2006, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

Well, okay, but the Jews in Germany did nothing to provoke such a reaction, I might point out.

For better or for worse, I wrote. My point was, that if the machinations are started, they won't stop. Try to forget I mentioned the Jews in Germany, because it is not relevant to the point I was making and not to this thread.

V

Spliffdaddy · Sep 26, 2006, 11:21 PM

I just noticed that Germany purchased 1,100 railway cattle cars.

hmm...

Kevin · Sep 27, 2006, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Knowing the Germans, they will (if this nonsense keeps up).

Yeah I always thought Germans had more gonads than this

Kevin · Sep 27, 2006, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

I'm curious to see whether a mod censors that.

I wouldn't know why.

Dakar · Sep 27, 2006, 12:39 AM

Tis an image of Muhammad is it not? Isn't that a religious no-no?

DLQ2006 · Sep 27, 2006, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

I wouldn't exactly call it "enthusiasm"; there's actually a fair bit of controversy. But no one is making death threats or rioting over it.

Yet in this, perhaps, the terrorists truly have won: people now fear Muslim reaction to things which shouldn't be of any real consequence, to the point where they actually cancel cultural events because a few people don't have a mature outlook on their own faith.

I think Islam needs to start embracing positive, fun-filled social activtities and recreation and maybe they won't get so offended all the time. Maybe less rioting, throat-cutting, and men beating themselves with chains and more plays, snow-skiing, motorcycle riding, et cetera. I wonder how many Muslim women have lived the life I have as a Western woman where I have spent my life riding horses, riding dirt-bikes, snow-skiing, water-skiing, and going on trips with my family. How many of them truly live happy, fullfilling lives? I don't see too many women dressed in bed sheets on the ski slopes or on wakeboards. Maybe when they learn how to enjoy things like sports and watching a good football or soccer game while drinking beer they'll be less uptight and offended all the time.

Kerrigan · Sep 27, 2006, 11:31 AM

Exactly. Going out, having fun, conversing with people (about things *other than* religion or politics), and living your life is what more Muslims need to do.

Fanaticism is caused partly by people who sit around alone and brood, cooking up strange beliefs, and who only share those beliefs with other like-minded people. They are mentally stagnant.

TETENAL · Sep 27, 2006, 12:23 PM

Was this preemptive surrender?

Opinion: Afraid of the Fear of Terror - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

marden · Sep 27, 2006, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Was this preemptive surrender?

Opinion: Afraid of the Fear of Terror - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

That is VERY funny. And I think, true.

shmerek · Sep 27, 2006, 03:39 PM

Totally lame put the opera on and tell all the religious nutters to get stuffed. Funny how only the muslims are reacted, the heads of Jesus and Budda are there too...

The Godfather · Sep 27, 2006, 05:34 PM

How would you guys feel if Ballmer and Gates started parading Job's head in the next MS developers conference? Would you stuff it too?

BRussell · Sep 27, 2006, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

How would you guys feel if Ballmer and Gates started parading Job's head in the next MS developers conference? Would you stuff it too?

I'd ululate in the streets.

Unless Mozart wrote it, in which case I'd attend the developer's conference and try to get the best seats.

DBursey · Sep 27, 2006, 06:20 PM

/ mental imagery of BRussell's ululations imparts shivers down spine

shmerek · Sep 28, 2006, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

How would you guys feel if Ballmer and Gates started parading Job's head in the next MS developers conference? Would you stuff it too?

Hmmm... if it was his actual head I would be upset but if was an "artistic representation" of his head I wouldn't give a ****.

dcolton2 · Sep 28, 2006, 02:07 AM

What doesn't offend muslims? Seriously, they can declare their jihads and fatwahs, saw off heads, blow up planes, burn flags, chant death to America and Isreal, and just be plane dicks, but god forbid the western world experience culture.

I am suprised at how quickly the Germans have rolled over for the killer muslims. I wonder if this has anything to do with a kindred hatred for the jews or if the Germans have just surrendered to the allah crowd.

ink · Sep 28, 2006, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by BRussell

It's actually the perfect experiment: Several major religions are "insulted" in exactly the same way. Which religion is likely to take offense?

Yep. It's interesting that Christ and Bhuda are also decapitated; there was no mention of canceling the opera because of the possible Christain/Bhudist backlash.

Or the many followers of Poseidon.

(But Mohamed took care of those guys back in the day)

ink · Sep 28, 2006, 04:29 AM

Berlin talks resolve Mozart opera controversy - Financial Times - MSNBC.com

Badr Mohammed, head of Berlin's European Integration Centre and one of the Muslim delegates to the conference, said the forum was a "historic breakthrough – an opportunity that Muslims must now grasp".

Good show. I really hope that the community is up to the challenge and that we don't have any violent news stories about it.

Powerbook · Sep 28, 2006, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Knowing the Germans, they will (if this nonsense keeps up).

You have just proven easily that you don't know the Germans.

Powerbook · 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by dcolton2

I am suprised at how quickly the Germans have rolled over for the killer muslims. I wonder if this has anything to do with a kindred hatred for the jews or if the Germans have just surrendered to the allah crowd.

Uhm yeah, some opera director decides something and then "the Germans", do it too? This is a 83 million people, which in some constellation means 83 million different views.
And your nonsense about "hatred for the jews", yeah right.

edit: ahem.

Taliesin · Sep 28, 2006, 05:28 AM

I think a majority should not use the card of blasphemy against a minority. The tool of blasphemy should in my humble opinion only be used in regard to the own culture's symbols.

Taliesin

dcolton2 · Sep 28, 2006, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Powerbook

Uhm yeah, some opera director decides something and then "the Germans", do it too? This is a 83 million people, which in some constellation means 83 million different views.
And your bullshit about "hatred for the jews", yeah right.

Why do you deny the holocaust?

Spliffdaddy · Sep 28, 2006, 09:36 PM

Rush called this "pre-emptive capitulation" in the face of Islamofascists.

Funny. And true.

Kerrigan · Sep 28, 2006, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Rush called this "pre-emptive capitulation" in the face of Islamofascists.

Funny. And true.

He must have read that article in Spiegel.

Saddly it's true.

voodoo · Sep 28, 2006, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Rush called this "pre-emptive capitulation" in the face of Islamofascists.

Funny. And true.

What does that tell you of the power islamofascists hold over Europe?

V

Spliffdaddy · Sep 29, 2006, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by voodoo

What does that tell you of the power islamofascists hold over Europe?

V

Quite a lot.

Seems the terrorists have already won in Germany.

What's really odd to me is the fact that some Americans are concerned that we might make the enemy mad if we imprison them or kill them. They're worried about "world opinion", too.

Now, call me crazy, but world opinion is already against us - and the terrorists already want to kill us.

I'd say it's time to do what we did to win the last world wars. Stop caring about world opinion. Start levelling entire cities in order to kill the enemy. Sure, some people won't like us. The same ones that already don't like us. This is about preserving our country and as an added benefit it may even save lives in other countries.

Powerbook · Sep 29, 2006, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by dcolton2

Why do you deny the holocaust?

Are you on drugs??? Please seek counseling.

I just checked my filofax, no holocausts last week or the week before.

dcolton2 · Sep 29, 2006, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Powerbook

Are you on drugs??? Please seek counseling.

I just checked my filofax, no holocausts last week or the week before.

Ask yuor grandfather. You Germans killed so many jews, surely you couldn't have forgotten such a significant event...unless, of course, you think like Iran's President.

Powerbook · Sep 29, 2006, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by dcolton2

Ask yuor grandfather. You Germans killed so many jews, surely you couldn't have forgotten such a significant event...unless, of course, you think like Iran's President.

Err dude, I don't know how explizit to get, but we have our own share of family members sent to the chambers that we don't need to be lectured by you. Screw this pathetic history lesson attempt.

Oh and welcome to the 21st century.

Kevin · Sep 29, 2006, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Powerbook

Err dude, I don't know how explizit to get, but we have our own share of family members sent to the chambers that we don't need to be lectured by you. Screw this pathetic history lesson attempt.

Oh and welcome to the 21st century.

Those who forget the past, tend to repeat it. That is all.

Powerbook · Sep 29, 2006, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Those who forget the past, tend to repeat it. That is all.

Ex-Junkies should not mis-quote philosophers.

marden · Sep 29, 2006, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Powerbook

Ex-Junkies should not mis-quote philosophers.

I'd bet someone reported you.

That is the most astounding personal attack I've seen since I've been here except for the ones on Cody Dawg and vmarks.

TETENAL · Sep 29, 2006, 10:02 AM

We don't hate Jews any more.

Noel Martin's Final Struggle: Neo-Nazi Victim Battling to the Death - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News