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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > What date will the iPod classic be killed off?

View Poll Results: When will Apple kill the iPod classic?
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The iPod is on death's door already. Apple will kill it sometime in 2007. 0 votes (0%)
Soon - first half of 2008 4 votes (16.67%)
Within a year - second half of 2008 5 votes (20.83%)
Some time in 2009 5 votes (20.83%)
2010 or later 6 votes (25.00%)
It's going to be with us forever! 4 votes (16.67%)
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll
What date will the iPod classic be killed off?
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passmaster16
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Sep 6, 2007, 12:50 AM
 
Somebody mentioned in an earlier thread that perhaps one of the reasons for giving the original iPod the "classic" designation was due to the fact that Apple will eventually phase out the click wheel interface in the flagship iPod and move to touch screen instead. Obviously I think there will be a few more iterations of the classic version until Apple either: a.) manages to integrate standard hard disks into the touch models or b.) solid state flash becomes available in capacities and at prices that are on par with standard hard disks. But the "classic" designation would appear to make it easier to eliminate the product from the lineup when the time comes.

With that being said, do you view the iPod Classic as nothing more than an interim solution for people that need a high capacity device? Obviously its value at this point is that it offers space that some people demand, but would it really be here if there wasn't such a space disparity between it and the iPod touch? Personally, while I do expect the iPod touch capacities to increase within the next year, I think that it will still be some time before the flash memory makes it into the iPod touch in substantial capacities.

Do you feel like you have to choose between old technology (click wheel) vs new technology (touch screen) simply due to the fact that capacity just isn't there? Don't get me wrong, the classic is still a great device. In many ways it may even be better since it is a refined design. And of course we know that it has the disk space. But for me, I'll probably be looking to buy an iPod within the next few months, and while I would like to have the extra space that the classic delivers, I don't really need it. More importantly, I don't know how keen I am on the idea of buying an "interim" product knowing that the replacement, which is already available, will most likely move to the touch screen technology. I'm not blaming Apple for the current situation. They had their reasons as to why they took this approach, but it doesn't make it an easy decision for somebody who is preparing to purchase a new device determine the tradeoffs that must be made.
     
Nodnarb
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Sep 6, 2007, 01:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by passmaster16 View Post

With that being said, do you view the iPod Classic as nothing more than an interim solution for people that need a high capacity device?
I think this is exactly what it is. They won't move the iPod touch to hard disks, but when flash memory is available in greater storage capacities, as you said, they will eventually bring the iPod touch into the regular iPod model, and classic will be gone.

People have been itching for an iPod with large enough storage to hold everything they need. Today they got it.

People have wanted an iPhone minus the phone: today they got it.

They are satisfying everybody with this product line (except for early iPhone adopters!!! ), as they have literally every $50 increment covered from $99-$399.

The "touch" name is just like "photo" used to be, except I think it will be around for a little while longer than the photo was because it will be a good while before flash storage is capable of what this situation requires.
     
Big Mac
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Sep 6, 2007, 02:53 AM
 
I think you guys are both largely (but not completely) correct. I wouldn't call iPod classic an interim product for the reasons stated, however, but that designation does imply that Apple would like to get rid of it eventually. I just don't see flash memory getting cheap enough any time soon to serve as high capacity iPod storage rivaling hard drive technology, but one can imagine that it eventually will years down the line. I personally think they gave it the name classic so that there would be naming symmetry with the rest of the line, and I don't think the name is meant to indicate to buyers that it's depreciated in any way. I don't think anyone should feel awkward about buying an iPod classic because of the concern tat it will eventually get replaced. After all, the 5/5.5G models were around for nearly two years; no matter what, all computer technology is bound to be replaced eventually.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Sep 6, 2007 at 03:00 AM. )

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Brien
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Sep 6, 2007, 03:34 AM
 
The problem with the notion of flash memory catching up to HD capacity and replacing it is a bit far-fetched though, no?

You'd have to assume that HD capacity will stay at a standstill, which we know isn't going to happen. Because hey, once we can do 100GB+ with flash memory, I'm sure we can stick a couple TB in an iPod formfactor.
     
Eug
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Sep 6, 2007, 03:54 AM
 
The iPod classic is living on borrowed time. I think the iPod classic will be history by the second half of 2008. What about you?

It's just a matter of time. Quite frankly, I think the 160 GB iPod classic is overkill. Some people think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but in its current configuration, there is a bit of a disconnect between its feature set and the storage space. Flash is where its at, and when the flash amounts are sufficient, Apple will delete the iPod classic. The question is when the flash amounts are sufficient.

IMO, Apple will deem it "sufficient" when it hits 32 GB. Sooo....

2008 H1: 24 GB WiPod (or they'll just stay at 16 GB)
2008 H2: 32 GB WiPod --> And they kill off the iPod classic.
2009: 64 GB WiPod
     
Nodnarb
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Sep 6, 2007, 03:58 AM
 
Ill give it a year and a half, 2 years... 2009

People aren't gonna like having all that storage taken away from them so quickly...
     
Eug
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Sep 6, 2007, 04:11 AM
 
Yes, maybe 2009 H1. However, regardless, it's gonna mean a big drop in storage space for the iPods... and Apple will still laugh all the way to the bank. 160 GB is nice, but the market opened up by that hard drive vs. 80 GB likely isn't huge on a percentage basis.

It's gonna be really nice to have an all solid state iPod (like the nanos). The hard drive makes the iPod bulky, power hungry, heavy, and more delicate too.
     
butterfly0fdoom
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Sep 6, 2007, 04:13 AM
 
I think the iPod classic will live on. It's the iconic iPod design. Doesn't matter if the touch costs more, the classic is still the flagship. Besides, it's the capacity king.

That said, I am thinking of replacing my 80GB iPod with a 160GB classic in the future. Why? So I can make my entire collection of anime and TV shows portable. High capacity will forever have a place. That said, I'm sure they'll keep the classic design when flash drives reach the high capacities of at least the 5G at a low enough price. and change the whole iPod line to all SSD.
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JonoMarshall
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Sep 6, 2007, 04:40 AM
 
iPod Classic could change function somehow? Park one next to your TV and stream your content to it? Oh wait...
     
Big Mac
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Sep 6, 2007, 08:36 AM
 
I'm not saying it will ever catch up with hard drive capacity, but it may eventually rival it for use in iPods.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
JonoMarshall
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Sep 6, 2007, 08:57 AM
 
It already rivals it in terms of speed, heat, power consumption and bulk.

(Apple just need to convince us to stop carrying such a bag of music everywhere we go and I'm sure they will. In the meantime, I'll be getting my head around smart playlists.)
     
iREZ
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Sep 6, 2007, 11:30 AM
 
i prefer the click wheel (one handed use) over the touch feature (two handed use) because i'm usually doing something when listening to my music on my ipod and the last thing i wanna do is stop and dedicate two hands to change a song.
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mrwilly123
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Sep 6, 2007, 11:57 AM
 
....until solid state flash becomes available in capacities and at prices that are on par with standard hard disks
Hard drive capacities are increasing, and prices are dropping just as they are for flash drives. So it seems unlikely that flash will ever be "on par" with hard drives. But at a certain point, most people aren't going to need more than a 32 GB iPod touch (assuming that happens eventually).

Let's try and look at the bigger picture here. Just a few years ago, a 10 GB HD-based iPod was enough for most people, and the 20 GB ($500! and huge!) seemed extravagant. And now we have a nearly 20 GB iPod touch.

So I think that the iPod classic is going to take a back seat to the iPod touch as the main iPod that people buy. And I think once people get used to the idea of the iPod touch, they will phase out the classic and introduce larger, HD-based iPod touch.
     
anthology123
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Sep 6, 2007, 12:23 PM
 
It's just marketing. they will continue to release the iPod classic with bigger hard drives until sales drop to a point. It may either become a niche device for people who want large storage, or it will fade out. With the success of the nano, it is showing that people want the form factor more so than the size of storage, but with video on the horizon, storage space may become popular again.
     
Simon
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Sep 6, 2007, 01:44 PM
 
Once Apple can buy 128 GB flash memory for ~$150 the classic will fade away. Not a day earlier. It's Apple's revenue driver.
     
-Q-
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Sep 6, 2007, 02:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrwilly123 View Post
But at a certain point, most people aren't going to need more than a 32 GB iPod touch (assuming that happens eventually).
I'm not sure that's necessarily true. There will always be that group of people that want most, if not all, their music collection with them along with some videos and podcasts. I know I'd rather have a choice of iPods and storage sizes rather than be limited to what someone else perceives as what I 'need' or 'can make do with.'
     
giggs11
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Sep 6, 2007, 02:13 PM
 
That's what makes this an interesting decision. In theory, the Touch is the one for watching videos, which take up more memory, yet it has less. The Classic, though video-capable, isn't nearly as nice for watching movies, but it has the larger hard drive.

It's closer, but Apple hasn't quite hit that sweet spot yet.

Then again, by the time flash drives > 16 GB get cheaper, we'll all be demanding high-def video and the storage space for that.
     
CharlesS
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Sep 6, 2007, 02:35 PM
 
I think they just gave it that name so it could be more easily differentiated from the other iPod models, so you don't have this conversation anymore:

"I just got a new iPod!"

"Oh, which one?"

"I don't know, an iPod."

"Is it an iPod nano, and iPod shuffle, or the regular iPod?"

"I think it's the regular one - how do I tell? I think it just said 'iPod' on the box."

Probably caused a lot of headaches for the phone support people.

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butterfly0fdoom
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Sep 6, 2007, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Once Apple can buy 128 GB flash memory for ~$150 the classic will fade away. Not a day earlier. It's Apple's revenue driver.
No, then the classic will switch over to using flash memory and continue to focus on capacity over other features.
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Simon
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Sep 6, 2007, 04:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
No, then the classic will switch over to using flash memory and continue to focus on capacity over other features.
The classic will never switch to flash. That's the whole idea.

Once 128 GB flash becomes affordable, the touch will take over. How much do you wanna bet on that?
     
butterfly0fdoom
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Sep 6, 2007, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
The classic will never switch to flash. That's the whole idea.

Once 128 GB flash becomes affordable, the touch will take over. How much do you wanna bet on that?
If that happens, I will cry. I so badly want the touch to flop and die out. IMO, it's just so... UGLY. The classic has the beautiful "classic" look with the screen and the wheel in perfect proportion. The nano, while using the classic style, is oddly-proportioned. The touch caters to a niche market that wants the multi-touch but doesn't want a phone (or AT&T). It would be so disappointing (for me, at least) if the classic were phased out and replaced with the touch.
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Nodnarb
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Sep 6, 2007, 04:55 PM
 
Question: have you tried the "ugly" iPod touch? (well of course not, it's not out) How about the iPhone? Used it for more than a day?

it's soooooooo much better than the clickwheel format (which still works incredible compared to anything else out there.)

But I don't think they're getting rid of the clickwheel anytime soon, I can't see them ever really turning the nano into the "touch mini" or whatever, i think that will always have a clickwheel (or until something better comes along).
     
EndlessMac
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Sep 6, 2007, 05:16 PM
 
I don't know if Apple will discontinue the iPod classic but for me it fits my needs. The iPod Touch looks interesting and I would get it if it were cheaper and had more memory but the iPod classic seems like the better deal.

I also think it depends on what you will using your iPod for. The classic is more for audio files and can be used to watch video if needed but doesn't seem to excel at it. The touch seems to be more of a multimedia device which means that it can handle most forms of current media pretty well.

I do admit that I like the interface of the iPod touch and actually wanted an iPhone without the phone but I'll willing to wait until it becomes cheaper with more memory. Also I'll mostly use my iPod as an audio player because I never really cared about surfing the internet or watching videos when I'm out of the house so I don't know if I'll really need an iPod touch.

As nice as the interface for the iPod touch is it's not really needed for a device that is used primarily as an audio player so I really don't see this as being a problem for me. IMO they have now become two completely different devices for different needs. I think the mistake Apple made is naming it an iPod rather than something else.
     
Eug
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Sep 7, 2007, 02:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by JonoMarshall View Post
iPod Classic could change function somehow? Park one next to your TV and stream your content to it? Oh wait...
Heh. Exactly. The iPod classic (note the lower case "c") will be no more some time soon. A product could be introduced that utilizes a hard drive, but will have superior functionality, and at that time the iPod classic will be no more.

However, I don't think even that will happen. I think it will simply disappear. The iPod nano is the flash replacement for the iPod classic. As of next year, there will be no more hard drive iPods. The iPod touch (another flash-based product) is a the completely new product that takes over the top of the Apple iPod product line. (The iPhone is a different kettle of fish, and to a large extent it doesn't really compete directly against the iPod.)
     
BRussell
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Sep 7, 2007, 03:37 AM
 
I'll play devil's advocate here. The fact that they went to 160 makes it hard for me to believe the plan is to kill the classic soon. If that was their intention, they could have just stopped at 80. It's going to be a long time before they can put anywhere close to 160 in a flash ipod.

In fact, I can see hard drives being in iPods indefinitely: Hard drive tech will continue to improve and get smaller and faster at the same time as solid-state memory improves. Imagine a 1 TB iPod with an entire movie collection. There will be a market for that type of extra-large storage that flash can't achieve for many years.
     
Simon
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Sep 7, 2007, 03:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
If that happens, I will cry. I so badly want the touch to flop and die out. IMO, it's just so... UGLY. The classic has the beautiful "classic" look with the screen and the wheel in perfect proportion. The nano, while using the classic style, is oddly-proportioned. The touch caters to a niche market that wants the multi-touch but doesn't want a phone (or AT&T). It would be so disappointing (for me, at least) if the classic were phased out and replaced with the touch.
If I were you I wouldn't worry too much. It will take quite a while until large amounts of flash (like for example 128 GB) reach the price levels Apple needs to replace the HDD based iPods with flash based models (the $150 I mentioned was [according to ISuppli] the max price Apple ever paid for flash in an iPod: it was the 8 GB in the $249 G2 nano). The classic will certainly stick around for quite a while. And even once it's been EOL'ed there's refurbs, independent dealerships, Ebay, etc. You'll get your classic.
     
Simon
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Sep 7, 2007, 04:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I'll play devil's advocate here. The fact that they went to 160 makes it hard for me to believe the plan is to kill the classic soon. If that was their intention, they could have just stopped at 80. It's going to be a long time before they can put anywhere close to 160 in a flash ipod.

In fact, I can see hard drives being in iPods indefinitely: Hard drive tech will continue to improve and get smaller and faster at the same time as solid-state memory improves. Imagine a 1 TB iPod with an entire movie collection. There will be a market for that type of extra-large storage that flash can't achieve for many years.
Well said. The classic covers a part of the market no other iPod covers. It means Apple can sell high margins products to people who'd otherwise be driven off to the competition. In this market Apple's in a very strong posiion. They have no reason to hand over high revenue sales to their competitiors. Once again, some people are confusing their own personal desires with what's good for Apple as a business. As a stock holder I don't want to see Apple push Zune sales. Fortunately they're smart enough not to do that. The classic will stick around for another while.

BTW, this thread is redundant. Another thread dealing with exactly this issue started off before this one.
( Last edited by Simon; Sep 7, 2007 at 04:34 AM. )
     
Simon
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Sep 7, 2007, 04:41 AM
 
It's also interesting to note that the iPod which is nicest to view movies on doesn't come with the necessary capacity, while the high capacity iPod doesn't come with the best screen. It's evident that Apple had to make decision based on component cost and not purely based on a model customer. As component costs come down the touch will be able to take over more of the classic's market. It will be another while till their BOM costs become comparable.
     
vmarks
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Sep 7, 2007, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by simon
BTW, this thread is redundant. Another thread dealing with exactly this issue started off before this one.
Threads merged.

Any weird re-ordering of posts is the hamster having a field day.
     
Simon
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Sep 7, 2007, 09:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks View Post
Threads merged.
Thanks!
     
bluedog
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Sep 7, 2007, 10:12 AM
 
Here's my take on the iPod classic with HD space vs. the Touch/iPhone and limited storage.

HD storage may become less important if you can Wifi stream from a local server. If you have a chunk of your stuff on the iPod Touch/iPhone and need to stream or grab it via wifi who cares if space is a little more limited.

For now I wanted the extra space because syncing required my access to my main computer and iTunes/iPhoto for getting the content. With Wifi enabled you can 'get your content' wirelessly and across the web.

Look for this option with Leopard (perhaps in Leopard server) to allow streaming or grabbing your shared content via the wifi on these devices. If that's the case, I'd go with less space in the actual device.
     
analogika
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Sep 7, 2007, 05:53 PM
 
They've not only not killed it off; they've even elevated it to its own defined category: shuffle - nano - classic - touch.

each of those categories has a definite appeal - the "classic" is the one with the highest possible capacity and the scroll wheel, just like it's always been.

It'll be around for a *long* time - this will become especially clear should we ever see "home on iPod" as a feature of OS X.
     
dbranham
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Sep 7, 2007, 11:39 PM
 
I have mixed emotions about watching the touchscreen interface take over the iPod landscape. On the one hand, i love my iPhone. But it unfortunately takes that hand AND the other hand to operate a touchscreen. Sometimes I miss the simplicity of the clickwheel. The nano will probably fill that need for me. Of course, i would have had a tough time typing this response on a nano.
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Eug
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Sep 8, 2007, 01:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
It'll be around for a *long* time - this will become especially clear should we ever see "home on iPod" as a feature of OS X.
I suspect Home on iPod is already dead.
     
   
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