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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Hardware Hacking > Let's Figure Out GeForce Ti 4600 !!!!

Let's Figure Out GeForce Ti 4600 !!!!
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Amacapart
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Sep 15, 2004, 06:10 PM
 
OK,

I have been trying to come up with more video card options for Macs.Cube Users in particular are left with embarassing choices. The Radeon 9800 that works in Cubes is a difficult install and definetely not for everyone. Sadly, very few Mac cards fit in the Cube. this has left Cube Users squabbling over GF2's at $150 each. PC users use GF2's to wedge the door open when they carry in groceries.

I discovered from PC sites that a Ti 4200 can be flashed with a PC Ti 4600 ROM. This got me thinking....

If we could figure out how to get a Ti 4600 flashed, we may be able to get 4200's working as well. Would make a nice card for Cubes.

here is what I have tried:

1. Got a Ti 4600 with DVI and VGA. Flashed with Mac ROM. Nada.

2. Noticed that there was a dual DVI version which more closely matched the Mac 4600. Got one, flashed it. More Nada.

3. Tried a 4200, same deal.

Oddly, the cards show up in ASP when they are PC cards. Once flashed they disappear. Almost as if someone anticipated this might be tried and wrote something to check for....

there was also speculation that the ROM's were written with a data & resource forks. Since PC's only support one and not both, perhaps flashing on a PC is what screws it up. I am certain we as a community can figure this out.

A guy named "Red eclipse turbo" once claimed he had succsessfully flashed a Ti 4600. He then vanished. Either he was lying or Apple & Nvidia had him "disappeared". Does anyone know this guy or a way to contact him?

I have 1 good example of each and several dead "Parts boards" to play with. But I need some help.

1. I need hi-res scans of Apple 4600 with Fan off.

2. Someone needs to figure out how to adapt NVFlash terminal App so we can flash PC cards with it. It currently checks to see if Mac cards are in system and doesn't load if it doesn't see one. I have been working on this but still no luck.

I discovered some time ago that the Ti series of GF3's was flashable after moving a resistor which brought the dev id to "200". That is not the case here as dev id is already correct on 4600. So it is something else.

This would be a great card for many Macs if we could figure it out. A better card than 8500 or 9000.

I have a website where I will be posting pix and instruction for doing the Ti Gf3's. I have also figured out flashing the 9800 XT and the original Radeon 7200 AGP. In the failures category I have many more cards. But posting pix and history of these could allow future flashers to concentrate on more useful cards. ( i just need to figure out how to put a website together)

So, are we going to figure this out?
     
TommyLeeRoth
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Sep 16, 2004, 12:00 PM
 
I'll be able to get you some photos of my mac ti4600 with the heatsink off some time next week when my nv 1 silencer arrives. No scanner though, only digicam, but I'll try. Damn stock fan is too noisy.
     
Amacapart  (op)
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Sep 17, 2004, 12:38 PM
 
Excellent !!

Hopefully resolution will be sufficient to see components.

I am surprised that no one else has posted their attempts at this.

Even failures can be learned from.

Who else has tried this?

dp
     
macgfx
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Sep 18, 2004, 05:36 PM
 
I've tried the GF5200 and GF4MX to no avail. All I get is a Default Catch! in Open Firmware.

I do however know how to fix the fact that the card is not "seen" by the mac after flashing.

Email me the GF4ti rom :

macgfx---------@--------earthlink----dot--------net!
Joy!peffpwpc
     
Buck_Naked
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Sep 21, 2004, 04:16 PM
 
Originally posted by macgfx:
I've tried the GF5200 and GF4MX to no avail. All I get is a Default Catch! in Open Firmware.

I do however know how to fix the fact that the card is not "seen" by the mac after flashing.

Email me the GF4ti rom :

macgfx---------@--------earthlink----dot--------net!


How would I go about getting the rom to send to you?
     
TommyLeeRoth
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Sep 22, 2004, 07:56 AM
 
Ok I took some photos. They're terrible. Anyone who wants 'em just let me know.
     
baakre
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Sep 22, 2004, 07:49 PM
 
I do have access to a programmer at work and a spare PC Gainward Geforce4 4200. Does anyone have a *good* ROM image from a Mac card? Also, can anyone provide me with exactly which EEPROM chip is used on the Mac version?

If we can't get the software to work, there is always the brute force method!

Thanks

Email -

baakre at mac dot com
     
dualboy
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Sep 23, 2004, 02:52 AM
 
I hope this gets figured out...I for one would love to have this card in my g4...

here is a link to new cards....109.00 BFG no less!!

http://store.yahoo.com/shentech/bfgteasti12d.html

here is a link on the same site for a ti4200-8x

http://store.yahoo.com/shentech/bfgasti128xa.html
( Last edited by dualboy; Sep 23, 2004 at 03:00 AM. )
     
baakre
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Sep 23, 2004, 08:56 PM
 
Can anyone post a screenshot of the Apple System Profile data for the Geforce4 TI? I'd like to verify the device ID.

Thanks,
Blair
     
TommyLeeRoth
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Sep 23, 2004, 10:59 PM
 
GeForce4 Ti 4600:

Type: display
Bus: AGP
Display Type: LCD
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 128 MB
Vendor: nVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0250
Revision ID: 0x00a3
ROM Revision: 1105
     
dualboy
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Sep 24, 2004, 12:22 PM
 
here is a link to a genuine apple gf4 ti....if anyone can afford to buy! $419.99
maybe for testing purposes?

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...&CusaNe=200454
     
Weezer
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Sep 24, 2004, 06:34 PM
 
Originally posted by dualboy:
here is a link to a genuine apple gf4 ti....if anyone can afford to buy! $419.99
maybe for testing purposes?

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...&CusaNe=200454
Ive got one...what do you need?

Imac Core Duo 1.83/1.5 GB/20 inch cinema, ibook G4 1 ghz
     
dualboy
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Sep 24, 2004, 07:05 PM
 
Originally posted by Weezer:
Ive got one...what do you need?
I'll bet Amacapart could use a hi-res scan of the card and a copy of the firmware to help him out....
     
macgfx
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Sep 27, 2004, 01:42 PM
 
I'm starting to think that Apple Modded the GF4 Ti/MX Roms to look at the Cards PCI Configuration Registers for the Subsystem Vender ID and Sub Device ID. On the Cards I have these are zero. Now you can't hack the Roms Sub vender ID(SVI)/Sub Device ID(SDI) as I think the Mac Roms use it to build the NAME property in the Open FirmWare(OF) Device Tree. The result of hacking the SVI/SDI to 0000,0000 is a Default Catch! when OF tries to execute the Fcode in the Rom.

If some one can figure out what resistors need to be moved on the PCB of the cards we may be able to Flash them to Mac. The GF4MX would need a SVI of 10DE(0208? I think) and SDI of 0008.

I think the GF4 Ti is 10DE(0208?)/000A.
Joy!peffpwpc
     
Amacapart  (op)
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Sep 27, 2004, 09:21 PM
 
In the past I thought that subsystem id was flashed with the ROM, as I always added "-5 -6" at end of command sequence to ignore these.

The "name" field you speak of is in ioreg dump. Perhaps someone with a Ti 4600 could open terminal and run:

ioreg -c IOPCIDevice -l > ~/dump.txt

In your home folder, a text dump will appear with all the ioregisters. Dig through and you will find 2 or 3 sections from the ti4600. Look for vendor "10de" and device id "250". The name field is usually "NVMac" or something like that. Would be good to get a look at the portions related to the Ti.

I have been trying to get NVFlasher to work to flash PC cards in OS X. Have found place in kext to change the "names" which are recognized but now it hangs elsewhere.

In a few days an OS X ATI flasher is going to be released to an eager flashing crowd. Why is it so much harder to get Nvidia one to work?

I got to come home again for a few days and my well-meaning family has boxed up most of my flashing "lab". They say they are trying to help me get things in order but I can't help but feel they are getting my apartment ready to be rented out to someone else. Unfortunately my PC flashing station is boxed and buried. In the time I have left, I have to work on Mac only. Will be very difficult to figure out if I can't get NVFlash to work. Could use help.
     
littlegreenspud
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Sep 28, 2004, 10:03 AM
 
Hope this helps, if you need more - let me know.

+-o NVDA,Parent@10 <class IOAGPDevice, registered, matched, active, $
| | | {
| | | "vendor-id" = <000010de>
| | | "device-id" = <00000250>
| | | "NVDA,BMP" = <55aa06eb4b37343030e94c1977cc564944454f200d0000000 $
| | | "#address-cells" = <00000001>
| | | "#size-cells" = <00000000>
| | | "AGP_AllowOverlap" = <00000001>
| | | "AAPL,phandle" = <ff99b388>
| | | "NVDA,Features" = <00000003>
| | | "reg" = <0000800000000000000000000000000000000000020080100 00000$
| | | "min-grant" = <00000005>
| | | "AGP_Address_Range" = <00000000ffffffff>
| | | "IOInterruptSpecifiers" = (<0000003000000001>)
| | | "AAPL,slot-name" = <"SLOT-1">
| | | "IOPMIsPowerManaged" = Yes
| | | "AAPL,gray-value" = <00648cc3>
| | | "IOAGPCommandValue" = <07000104>
| | | "max-latency" = <00000001>
| | | "AGP_Address_Block" = <10000000>
| | | "AAPL,ndrv-dev" = Yes
| | | "AAPL,ndrv-interrupt-set" = "IONDRVInterruptSet is not serializ$
| | | "AGP_Alignment" = <10000000>
| | | "subsystem-vendor-id" = <000010de>
| | | "fcode-rom-offset" = <00000000>
| | | "AAPL,interrupts" = <0000003000000001>
| | | "driver-ist" = <01e9b6c00000000101e9b6c00000000201e9b6c00000000 $
| | | "AAPL,address" = <2ffa900037fa900038fa9000>
| | | "class-code" = <00030000>
| | | "devsel-speed" = <00000001>
| | | "rom-revision" = <"1105">
| | | "IOAGPFlags" = 65541
| | | "revision-id" = <000000a3>
| | | "AAPL,gray-page" = <00000001>
| | | "AGP_Master" = <>
| | | "fast-back-to-back" = <>
| | | "AAPL,maps" = ("_IOMemoryMap is not serializable","_IOMemoryMap$
| | | "Power Management private data" = "{ this object = 01bbf200, in$
| | | "compatible" = <"pci10de,a","pci10de,250","pciclass,030000">
| | | "twinView-driver" = <07f67800>
| | | "name" = <"NVDA,Parent">
| | | "IOInterruptControllers" = ("IOInterruptControllerFF952818")
| | | "Power Management protected data" = "{ theNumberOfPowerStates =$
| | | "interrupts" = <00000001>
| | | "device_type" = <"NVDA,GeForce4Ti">
| | | "model" = <"GeForce4 Ti 4600">
| | | "subsystem-id" = <0000000a>
| | | "IODeviceMemory" = (({"address"=18446744071964721152,"length"=1$
| | | "assigned-addresses" = <c20080140000000098000000000000000800000$
| | | }
| | |
| | +-o NVKernel <class NVKernel, registered, matched, active, busy 0,$
| | | | {
| | | | "IOGLBundleName" = "GeForce3GLDriver"
| | | | "IOSourceVersion" = "1.3.28.6"
| | | | "IOClass" = "NVKernel"
| | | | "IOProbeScore" = 100
| | | | "PerformanceStatistics" = {"freeContextBufferDVDWaitTime"=0,"$
| | | | "IOMatchCategory" = "IOAccelerator"
| | | | "IOPCIMatch" = "0x000010de&0x0000ffff"
| | | | "IODVDBundleName" = "AppleAltiVecDVDDriver"
| | | | "CFBundleIdentifier" = "com.apple.GeForce"
| | | | "IOCFPlugInTypes" = {"ACCF0000-0000-0000-0000-000a2789904e"="$
| | | | "IOProviderClass" = "IOPCIDevice"
| | | | "IOAccelRevision" = 2
| | | | }
| | | |
| | | +-o NV2DContext <class NV2DContext, !registered, !matched, activ$
| | | | {
| | | | }
| | | |
| | | +-o NVGLContext <class NVGLContext, !registered, !matched, activ$
| | | | {
| | | | }
| | | |
| | | +-o NVGLContext <class NVGLContext, !registered, !matched, activ$
| | | | {
| | | | }
| | | |
| | | +-o NVSurface <class NVSurface, !registered, !matched, active, b$
| | | {
| | | }
| | |
| | +-o NVDA,Display-A@0 <class IONDRVDevice, registered, matched, act$
| | | {
| | | "nativeNDRV" = <"nvda">
| | | "NVPR" = <8625040e000e050004000598030f0426040a0001000023a01 9f$
| | | "AAPL,phandle" = <ff9b11f8>
| | | "reg" = <00000000>
| | | "connector-type" = <00000000>
| | | "AAPL,gray-value" = <00648cc3>
| | | "AAPL,boot-display" = <>
| | | "AAPL,ndrv-dev" = Yes
| | | "com-dcpp" = <006f014c>
| | | "EDID" = <00ffffffffffff0019f2128000000100180b010280221b502 e6$
| | | "fboffset" = <00004000>
| | | "AAPL,ndrv-interrupt-set" = "IONDRVInterruptSet is not serial$
| | | "VRAM,memsize" = <0800000008000000>
| | | "refresh" = <0000003c>
| | | "AAPL,RegEntryID" = <01f2fe00fe0d01ff53696d6552756c7a>
| | | "driver-ist" = <01bca4800000000101bca4800000000201bca48000000$
| | | "AAPL,ndrvInst" = "IOPEFNDRV is not serializable"
| | | "com-dspp" = <006f0904>
| | | "AAPL,address" = <2ffa900037fa900038fa9000>
| | | "driver,AAPL,MacOS,PowerPC" = <4a6f79217065666670777063000000$
| | | "AAPL,gray-page" = <00000001>
| | | "IOFBDependentIndex" = 0
| | | "NVDA,memsize" = <0800000008000000>
| | | "depth" = <00000020>
| | | "display-type" = <"LCD">
| | | "linebytes" = <00001400>
| | | "i2c-mapping" = <00ffffff>
| | | "AAPL,maps" = ("_IOMemoryMap is not serializable","_IOMemoryM$
| | | "compatible" = <"NVDA,NVMac","NVDA,MultiDisplay">
| | | "character-set" = <"ISO8859-1">
| | | "IOFBDependentID" = 29094400
| | | "name" = <"NVDA,Display-A">
| | | "com-varp" = <11c15000>
| | | "display-cfg" = <003e0103>
| | | "device_type" = <"display">
| | | "height" = <00000400>
| | | "IONVRAMProperty" = Yes
| | | "NVMT" = <0302242019f21280050004000698053005a00000042a04010 40$
| | | "AAPL,iokit-ndrv" = <004ecf40>
| | | "IODeviceMemory" = (({"address"=18446744071964721152,"length"$
| | | "width" = <00000500>
| | | "address" = <98004000>
| | | }
| | |
| | +-o .Display_NV-00048000 <class NVDA, registered, matched, activ$
| | | {
| | | "IOFBWaitCursorPeriod" = 33333333
| | | "IOClass" = "NVDA"
| | | "IOFBGammaWidth" = 10
| | | "IOFBScalerInfo" = <000000300000000000000000000000000000000$
| | | "IOAccelRevision" = 2
| | | "IOFBMemorySize" = 134217728
| | | "IOFBWaitCursorFrames" = 15
| | | "IOProbeScore" = 60000
| | | "IOMatchCategory" = "IOFramebuffer"
| | | "IONameMatched" = "NVDA,NVMac"
| | | "IONameMatch" = ("MNCA,GeForce2MX","NVDA,NVMac")
| | | "IOFBGammaCount" = 1024
| | | "IOFBConfig" = {"dims"=<ffffffffffffffff0000020000000007>,"$
| | | "IOFBProbeOptions" = 1
| | | "IOFBCursorInfo" = (<00010000000000400000004000000002000000$
| | | "CFBundleIdentifier" = "com.apple.NVDAResman"
| | | "IOFBTimingRange" = <000000f0000000000000000000000000000000$
| | | "IONDRVFramebufferGeneration" = <0000000100000001>
| | | "IOFBDependentIndex" = 0
| | | "IODisplayParameters" = "IOFramebufferParameterHandler is n$
| | | "IOFBI2CInterfaceIDs" = (128251434310303744)
| | | "IOFBDetailedTimings" = (<000000000000000000000000000000000$
| | | "IOProviderClass" = "IONDRVDevice"
| | | "IOFBCLUTDefer" = Yes
| | | "Power Management private data" = "{ this object = 01c7a400$
| | | "IOFBDependentID" = 29094400
| | | "IOAccelIndex" = 0
| | | "Power Management protected data" = "{ theNumberOfPowerStat$
| | | "IOCFPlugInTypes" = {"ACCF0000-0000-0000-0000-000a2789904e"$
| | | "IOAccelTypes" = "IOService:/MacRISC2PE/pci@f0000000/AppleM$
| | | "IOFBGammaHeaderSize" = 12
| | | "IOFBI2CInterfaceInfo" = ({"IOI2CSupportedCommFlags"=3,"IOI$
| | | "IOGeneralInterest" = ("_IOServiceInterestNotifier is not s$
| | | "graphic-options" = 0
| | | }
| | |
| | +-o IOFramebufferI2CInterface <class IOFramebufferI2CInterface$
| | | {
| | | "IOI2CSupportedCommFlags" = 3
| | | "IOI2CBusType" = 1
| | | "IOI2CInterfaceID" = 128251434310303744
| | | "IOI2CTransactionTypes" = 15
| | | }
| | |
| | +-o display0 <class IODisplayConnect, registered, matched, act$
| | | | {
| | | | }
| | | |
| | | +-o AppleDisplay <class AppleDisplay, registered, matched, a$
| | | {
| | | "AppleSense" = 1854
| | | "IOClass" = "AppleDisplay"
| | | "AppleDisplayType" = 2
| | | "Power Management protected data" = "{ theNumberOfPower$
| | | "IODisplayConnectFlags" = <00004184>
| | | "IOProbeScore" = 2000
| | | "DisplayProductID" = 32786
| | | "IOMatchCategory" = "IODefaultMatchCategory"
| | | "Power Management private data" = "{ this object = 0213$
| | | "IODisplayParameters" = {}
| | | "CFBundleIdentifier" = "com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamil$
| | | "IODisplayEDID" = <00ffffffffffff0019f2128000000100180b$
| | | "IOProviderClass" = "IODisplayConnect"
| | | "DisplayVendorID" = 6642
| | | }
| | |
| | +-o IOFramebufferUserClient <class IOFramebufferUserClient, !r$
| | {
| | }
| |
     
baakre
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Sep 28, 2004, 06:58 PM
 
Can someone please grab a detailed picture of the small surface mount resistors between the flash chip and the GPU? I believe that is where the device ID resistors are located.

Thanks!
     
baakre
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Sep 28, 2004, 07:11 PM
 
Specifically, are there resistors mounted in locations R956, R957, R958, and/or R981?

Originally posted by baakre:
Can someone please grab a detailed picture of the small surface mount resistors between the flash chip and the GPU? I believe that is where the device ID resistors are located.

Thanks!
     
macgfx
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Sep 29, 2004, 01:59 PM
 
Let me try to explain this once more,

PCI Vendor ID Device ID Subsystem ID SubVendor ID are all set by resistors on the Printed Circuit Board. The Fcode PCI Header in the Mac Rom for the Video card also contains this info as it is called for in the PCI Standards and also the Open Firmware to PCI Bus Bindings.

One of the First things that Open Firmware does after Probing the PCI Bus/es is look for an Fcode Rom image. In this case finding the Rom of the GF4 and the Fcode @ offset 00000000, Next it looks to see if the card/device has Boot Support, in this case yes. Now it looks to see if it can build the card in the Device Tree by NAME and here in lies the trouble:

If you look at the GF2/3 roms you will find that they use only the "NAME Property" for the card that the Rom was for. However the GF4 roms use MANY Names in the Name Property.

I surmise that Apple used(for whatever reason) a bit different method in the Naming Property.

Open Firmware looks First at the Sub Vendor ID, Sub System ID if these Bits are Zero ffffffff,ffffffff then it looks to the Device ID, Vendor ID. It MUST MATCH THE Fcode PCI Header Info for these to the PCI configuration registers.

In the case of the GF2/3 it did not matter if the Sub ID's of the card were Zero as when it defaulted to the Device ID/Vendor ID only one Name was present to find in the Fcode for that Match. In simple terms:

GF2:
if device = pci10de.0110
then Name Property = NVDA,NVMac

However in the GF4 rom with it's many Name Properties in Fcode it's more like this:

GF4MX:
if device = pci10de,0008
then probe Device ID
if Device ID = 0170
then Name Property = NVDA,NV17

GF4Ti

If device = pci10de,000a
then probe Device ID
if Device ID = 0250
then Name Property = MVDA,NVxx

So here is what needs to be done:

1 Take a GF4 MX Mac card(these are cheap these days) Backup the Rom.
2 Put it in a PC and erase the Rom
3 REBOOT THE PC( YOU MUST DO THIS STEP)
4 Run: NVFlash -a
5 write down the Subsystem ID and Subvendor ID it reports( they may be in the form of ffff)
6 now take a PC GF4MX and do 1-5 on it.
7 Now the Hard Part: Find out the resistors that set the PCI Subsystem ID and Sub Vendor ID. Mix and match them until NVFlash -a reports the same Sub ID's for it as the Mac card.
8 Flash it with the Mac Rom
9 Install it in your Mac
10 Enjoy your New NVMac Card.
Joy!peffpwpc
     
baakre
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Sep 29, 2004, 11:02 PM
 
Does anyone have a GF4 TI ROM image they can email me to play with?

baakre at mac.com
     
ascarter
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Oct 1, 2004, 04:45 PM
 
Originally posted by dualboy:
here is a link to a genuine apple gf4 ti....if anyone can afford to buy! $419.99
maybe for testing purposes?

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...&CusaNe=200454
Apple sells OEM GF4 Ti 4600 as a $193 replacement part. I have one on order right now to replace my currently dying GF4 in my PowerMac. So I will have a somewhat dead OEM GF4 that might be useful for a test bed. The VRAM is failing (at least that's what the HW test cd says) but it does still work.

I should have my replacement card in about a week or so then the old one will be available. I don't know what else I would do with it - I don't have the time to work on this. But it would be cool if people didn't have to spend $200 when they could spend less than $100 for the card...
     
baakre
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Oct 1, 2004, 05:46 PM
 
Hey, if you wouldn't mind loaning out your flakey card I could sure use it for testing!

Originally posted by ascarter:
Apple sells OEM GF4 Ti 4600 as a $193 replacement part. I have one on order right now to replace my currently dying GF4 in my PowerMac. So I will have a somewhat dead OEM GF4 that might be useful for a test bed. The VRAM is failing (at least that's what the HW test cd says) but it does still work.

I should have my replacement card in about a week or so then the old one will be available. I don't know what else I would do with it - I don't have the time to work on this. But it would be cool if people didn't have to spend $200 when they could spend less than $100 for the card...
     
Amacapart  (op)
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Oct 1, 2004, 08:35 PM
 
Here are pix of the two Ti 4600's I have ready for flashing:

http://www.amacapart.com/images/4600red.jpg

Note that red one on top is the hard to find dual digital variety. Has more in common with Mac version so I am hopeful.

I have included hi-res pics of the resistors someone asked about.

Someone at Apple forums I was trying to help said he might send me a Ti 4600 Mac to work on.

If someone with a Mac 4600 can do similar hi-res pix of board, I would be happy to host on my site.

Still needed:

1. Someone to hack OS X ROM updater from Apple/Nvidia so it will flash PC cards

2. Someone to help figure out where clock speeds are in ROM so we can change.

This is exciting, I feel we may crack the egg. GF3 Titanium were long said "unflashable" yet I figured them out. They are now selling on Ebay for as little as $35 as a result. Figuring this out will help ALL Mac users. There is a good chance that we could do 4200 too if we figure this out, good Cube option.
     
ascarter
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Oct 4, 2004, 04:01 PM
 
Originally posted by baakre:
Hey, if you wouldn't mind loaning out your flakey card I could sure use it for testing!
Well, it turns out Apple doesn't want defective cards floating around so I have to send it back in or pay a $300 fee for not returning the defective card. I suppose it might be to stifle an effort such as this one.

Love to help but not at $300.
     
baakre
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Oct 4, 2004, 04:34 PM
 
Originally posted by ascarter:
Well, it turns out Apple doesn't want defective cards floating around so I have to send it back in or pay a $300 fee for not returning the defective card. I suppose it might be to stifle an effort such as this one.

Love to help but not at $300.
Perhaps you could take some pictures of it before you shipped it off? It would be nice if someone could take some high resolution pictures of the layout.
     
Amacapart  (op)
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Oct 4, 2004, 07:58 PM
 
Especially of resistors on front.

Or just compare to the pix I have posted above and let us know what resistors are different.

I read all over that "GF3 Ti cards are not flashable"

Turns out just 1 tiny resistor stood in our way.

Imagine if this is the same? The dual digital card I have would be IDEAL for a G4 with 2 new screens.

I can email even higher res pix if you want. Or send me hi-res pix and I will post them on my site.
     
tobyglyn
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Oct 11, 2004, 08:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Amacapart:
[Turns out just 1 tiny resistor stood in our way....
Hi David, I'm only going a little off topic here but I thought I'd just try again to find out from you when you will be sending me the Mac Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB that I bought from you via eBay on the 8th of August.

As you know, you don't answer my emails or phone calls (other than to send me that phoney tracking number) and I'm getting pretty tired of your lack of response.

Could you please refund my money or send me the item I purchased?

ebay item number:5114161549
( Last edited by tobyglyn; Oct 12, 2004 at 01:23 AM. )
     
MacInTime
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Oct 22, 2004, 02:15 AM
 
I've been following this topic hoping that someone with a Mac card can come up with the positions of the resistors between the flash memory and the fan. If removing the fan is causing heartburm it should be possible to get the information without taking the fan off. All that needs to be done is to hold the card with the video connectors facing you, look just under the front, left corner of the fan, just over the flash chip (most likely it has an SST printed on it). You can easily see what locations have resistors for R964, R965, R976, R951 and R952. If you are looking at the card from the front (video connectors facing you) you should be able to see under the heatsink/fan and tell what locations have resistors. On my VisionTek card the are in the following locations (from left to right, i.e. R964 is on the left):

X | X | X X | | X

where X's are where the resistors are and |'s are empty locations.

If anyone with a Mac card would be willing to check this out it would be appreciated.

Also, I've seen several people looking for a way to modify the clock speeds in the ROMs for nVidia cards. There are manual ways to do it using a Hex editor. I think Eric at techseekers.net has documented the process. However, MBToolKit lets you very easily do this and it supports all the released nVidia cards for the Mac so far. Much easier than messing with the Hex in so many locations. The manual method is much more complicated with the nVidia ROMs than the ATI ones. Check out MBToolKit here: http://www.mrspyonline.com/overclock/overclock.html

Thanks for all the work you guys have done. Hopefully I'll be able to start helping out going forward. I'm going to post a separate post about the success I had with my eVGA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra that I flashed this evening. Check the 5200 thread if you are interested.
     
Amacapart  (op)
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Oct 23, 2004, 01:26 AM
 
MBToolkit is perfect except that it doesn't actually work.

Your described resistor positions exactly match the ones on the two PC cards in the image I linked above.

I think a change occured in ROM's with last update. If you mod a ROM with Eric's method and then check in MBToolkit, it numerically appears to have worked. This is actually bad as it implies that his method DOESN'T work, as it is being confirmed by something which also doesn't work.

We are still trying to figure out.

I have posts for pix in a couple forums, in US, and Europe. So far, no one has found time to pop their card out, remove fan, and take a few good digital pix. Hopefully with holidays coming up, we may get yet.

Reality is, most folks who have a scanner and a 4600, probably need the 4600 IN to run scanner.

So, for people who can't image their 4600, check the described resistor positions, or go here:

http://www.amacapart.com/images/4600red.jpg

And compare Mac Ti 4600 to pix, see if the pictured resistors are same.

Easier than scanning or photo & photoshopping.

NO ONE has credibly flashed a Ti4600. Someone with one who helps out here could be key to unlocking another nice upgrade for LOTS of G4 owners.
     
Weezer
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Oct 24, 2004, 12:04 AM
 
Originally posted by Amacapart:

NO ONE has credibly flashed a Ti4600. Someone with one who helps out here could be key to unlocking another nice upgrade for LOTS of G4 owners.
as well as significantly hurting the resale value of my 4600 which I paid a pretty penny for. ..however, why doesn't MB toolkit work?

Imac Core Duo 1.83/1.5 GB/20 inch cinema, ibook G4 1 ghz
     
yukon
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Oct 24, 2004, 01:49 AM
 
Well, if anyone can get the GeForce 4 MX 440 SE (mine's by AOpen), I'd be truly indebted. I have access to my mac and multiple PCs, I have two other old AGP cards I can use, I could certainly find a PCI one somewhere. The other cards to flash are too expensive for me right now, and the ATI Rage128 is terrible.
[img]broken link[/img]
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Amacapart  (op)
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Oct 24, 2004, 02:06 PM
 
"as well as significantly hurting the resale value of my 4600 which I paid a pretty penny for. ..however, why doesn't MB toolkit work?"

Try it and see. It doesn't work on GF3 and 5200. Would be good to hear whether it worked on 4600 or not.

So, you're not going to help our effort so that you can get a few more dollars for your card down the road?

Come on, a quick scan or viewing of those pix would help a LOT of folks.

Nobody has gotten an MX 440 going either as far as I know.

Same deal, once flashed it disappears. Probably a similar thing to why we are having trouble with Ti4600. You could post for scans of original to try to get it working. But perhaps their owners will be watching out for their own wallets too.....
     
MacInTime
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Oct 24, 2004, 04:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Weezer:
as well as significantly hurting the resale value of my 4600 which I paid a pretty penny for. ..however, why doesn't MB toolkit work?
First off, check eBay. Original Apple cards ALWAYS go for significantly more than the flashed PC versions. I would even wonder if the flashed cards made the authentic versions go for higher, since they stand out more. Since the Apple version has an ADC on it, you will never have to worrry about proving the authenticity of your card, unlike the Radeon 8500, which can't be differentiated once flashed.

Second, I would be a lot more concerned about the newer video cards coming out than having flashed 4600s around to hurt your resale. If someone is looking for a new card, a flashed Radeon 9800 Pro on eBay will go for less than an authentic 4600Ti, which has already cut into your resale value. As newer cards are released, this problem will only get worse, since the 4600Ti is not optimized to run the current versions of OpenGL so will not perform as well as the mid-level cards that will be coming out.

As for MBToolKit, it appears that it does not work because it is either not changing the correct values in the ROM, or because the values in the ROM are overwritten by the nVidia drivers once they load. At Amacapart's suggestion, I benchmarked my flashed 5200 Ultra with different speeds in the ROM and no difference was made in performance, so it really does appear that the tool doesn't work. I'm going to do some digging to see if I can find more details on why it doesn't work.
     
littlegreenspud
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Oct 26, 2004, 06:35 AM
 
Amacapart

I have sent you some pics of my Ti4600.
     
Amacapart  (op)
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Oct 30, 2004, 08:50 PM
 
Update:

2 people have been kind enough to risk their future financial security and have sent 4600 pix.

As promised, I am posting them here to keep this an "open-source" project.

http://www.amacapart.com/images/4600-2.jpg

So, the resistors to right of EEPROM are identical.

I am now focusing on other areas. To left of GPU there are what looks like a pair numbered either "970 & 971" or "972 & 973", hard to tell as first has a hole through final digit. Perhaps someone could look for us? Also, verify that resistor is on first position, ie 970 or 972?

Anyhow, on PC there are a pair in same place #'ered "973 & 972" with the reistor being in position 973.

Also interested in some positions on back of card. Will edit a link in shortly to spots I mean.
     
   
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