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RIM: What Happened? (Page 2)
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freudling  (op)
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Jun 18, 2011, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Back in 2006 I told people I could not understand why Blackberry was still successful, as I thought their hardware and OS were garbage even back then, before the iPhone. I guess it's taken this long for the masses this long to figure that out.

As for the iPad, I'm considering getting rid of mine. We just don't use it. For the iPhone, I do use it all the time, but the one thing it is the worst at is being an actual phone. It's a PITA to actually phone somebody using the iPhone.
Ya, even before 2006 I thought their stuff was junk. Good for business back in the day, but that day is long gone. People see them as still having so much revenues but as many have pointed out, the drop in sales can and has happened so quickly it can kill a business in just a few months.

RIM is at a major risk of going out of business.

As for you not using your iPad, why don't you?
     
nonhuman
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Jun 18, 2011, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
As for the iPad, I'm considering getting rid of mine. We just don't use it. For the iPhone, I do use it all the time, but the one thing it is the worst at is being an actual phone. It's a PITA to actually phone somebody using the iPhone.
I almost never make phone calls anymore. I actually just paid my bill today, so I can tell you that I used the phone for less than 100 minutes last month. It was actually a heavy month for me (previous month was ~75 minutes).

I do, however, use my iPad all the time. Email is probably the biggest single use (as my only other viable option is Lotus Notes and I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a Bondi Blue hockey puck mouse), next is probably taking notes in Evernote (I don't even own a paper notebook anymore). The next major uses are probably entertainment, specifically HBO Go, Netflix, and MLB At Bat. I also use it for browsing when I'm not at a desk as I just find it more convenient than pulling out a laptop (though I will most likely be purchasing a MacBook Air within the next 45 days, so that could conceivably change the equation there).

In landscape mode, I find text entry on the iPad to be just fine. Not perfect, but acceptable. Most of our meeting rooms at work have Minis with bluetooth keyboards so, when possible, I hijack those as well.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 18, 2011, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
I almost never make phone calls anymore. I actually just paid my bill today, so I can tell you that I used the phone for less than 100 minutes last month. It was actually a heavy month for me (previous month was ~75 minutes).

I do, however, use my iPad all the time. Email is probably the biggest single use (as my only other viable option is Lotus Notes and I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a Bondi Blue hockey puck mouse), next is probably taking notes in Evernote (I don't even own a paper notebook anymore). The next major uses are probably entertainment, specifically HBO Go, Netflix, and MLB At Bat. I also use it for browsing when I'm not at a desk as I just find it more convenient than pulling out a laptop (though I will most likely be purchasing a MacBook Air within the next 45 days, so that could conceivably change the equation there).

In landscape mode, I find text entry on the iPad to be just fine. Not perfect, but acceptable. Most of our meeting rooms at work have Minis with bluetooth keyboards so, when possible, I hijack those as well.
Sick!
     
driven
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Jun 18, 2011, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Back in 2006 I told people I could not understand why Blackberry was still successful, as I thought their hardware and OS were garbage even back then, before the iPhone. I guess it's taken this long for the masses this long to figure that out.

As for the iPad, I'm considering getting rid of mine. We just don't use it. For the iPhone, I do use it all the time, but the one thing it is the worst at is being an actual phone. It's a PITA to actually phone somebody using the iPhone.
I'm finding for *many* daily tasks, I'm using my iPad more and more and the laptop less. I sincerely believe that the tablet is the computing platform of the future. The de-tethering that was just announced is a MAJOR step in this direction. I feel that "Big" machines will probably be left only to us development types.
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imitchellg5
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Jun 18, 2011, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
Yes, the Playbook *is* doing bad. I hate to say it, but Windows Phone 7 has sold more.
What kind of comparison is that?
     
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Jun 18, 2011, 06:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
What kind of comparison is that?
From what I understand, even Hyundai is outselling the PlayBook.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jun 18, 2011, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
The worst thing is, RIM does have a few things really well. You can call someone quicker on a BlackBerry than you can on an iPhone, just type the first few letters of their name and BOOM. iPhone, you gotta find it in a list and it takes longer. That said, how often do you call someone? I wish they'd put that much thought into other things because if you're gonna keep a keyboard all the time, make it worth something. The rest of their apps don't have that much thought.
You can do that on your iPhone without even typing. It's called voice command and it works very well.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 18, 2011, 07:07 PM
 
Balls silly said that 500,000 PlayBooks have been shipped... the oldest trick in the book. Nobody cares how many you shipped, we care how many you've sold to customers.

From what I've seen and suspect, most of these would be collecting dust in stores.

The big problem here is if the PlayBook fails, which it seems to be, QNX is a bust because their strategy was to break consumers into it before they port it over to their phones.

Get some development action on it, get it out there, and then, 1.5-2 years from now: Bang! It's on their new phones.

The fact that they're going to allow Android Apps to be emulated on it should be a huge concern to any investor or consumer looking to buy into RIM. It speaks of the total and utter waywardness of RIM as a company. They have no unified vision and strategy. They're just copying others and responding to the market, rather than leading.

Sooner rather than later, they're going to be relegated to the status of "Android Tablet Maker #5000 Releases a Tablet Computer and Sells 1000, Folds Up Shop".
     
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Jun 18, 2011, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
As for you not using your iPad, why don't you?
Even though it's much improved as compared to 2010, it's still quite common for me to hit a site that just doesn't work right on the iPad 2. Their solution? "Download our free app!" Uh, no thanks.

For email it currently has my GF's email info on it, but she rarely uses it so I was considering entering mine. However, since the machine has no security for multi-user functionality, I don't want to enter my info on it. Thus, that means I need to use the web interface, which is kind of annoying on the iPad. I also don't like typing on the thing, the fact I have underscores in my email address, just makes it even more annoying.

I have some bookmarked sites in my Safari toolbar, but I'm constantly hitting the add-bookmark button just above it for example. I don't like scrolling down to a bottom of a page, because if it's a long page it takes forever. Or sometimes I might hit the top of the screen by accident and it scrolls all the way to the top.

I don't like having to hold the thing either. I usually prefer having a laptop in my lap.

Some pages slow the iPad to a crawl. Just try viewing that animated GIFs thread.

And finally, there are some WiFi compatibility issues with it. I don't have these issues with my MacBook Pro and iBook, Windows machines, or iMac. Actually, I did see some issues with Lion Developer Preview 2 on the MBP, but Snow Leopard works perfectly, as does Leopard on the iBook.

Right now my order of usage: Windows 7 desktop or iMac > 13" MacBook Pro or Windows 7 11.6" laptop > iPad 2. I think I may eventually get a Thunderbolt 11.6" MacBook Air and sell the iPad 2. Yeah, I know iOS 5 may solve several of these problems, but I'm not sure, and I don't know when iOS 5 will be out.
( Last edited by Eug; Jun 18, 2011 at 08:33 PM. )
     
driven
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Jun 18, 2011, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
What kind of comparison is that?
The comparison is that Windows Phone 7 is widely considered to be a flop [so far].
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Eug
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Jun 18, 2011, 08:52 PM
 
Interesting you should mention that. Android looks cool, but when you actually use it you discover it's a little rough around the edges.

However, Windows Phone 7 just looks crappy to me. I have never used one though. I wonder if just the look of Windows Phone 7 is part of what's holding it back, or if it's mainly the reputation that Windows has always sucked on phones in the past, or the less than stellar reviews now.
     
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Jun 18, 2011, 09:42 PM
 
We've taken a couple of days off, gone wine sampling in Prince Edward County. The fact that I didn't need to schlep my laptop with me to stay in touch with my business pleases me no end. 3G is fast and available, Dropbox app on my iPad means I got access to all documents I might need to take a look at while we're away.

For me, this is as close to perfection as it gets.
     
driven
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Jun 18, 2011, 09:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Interesting you should mention that. Android looks cool, but when you actually use it you discover it's a little rough around the edges.

However, Windows Phone 7 just looks crappy to me. I have never used one though. I wonder if just the look of Windows Phone 7 is part of what's holding it back, or if it's mainly the reputation that Windows has always sucked on phones in the past, or the less than stellar reviews now.
I've used/deployed/provisioned quite a few Android devices for work. The more exposure I get to Android, the less I like it, especially the inconsistent experience between devices.

I actually really like the look/feel of the WinPhone7 devices. That said: For whatever reason they have gotten absolutely NO traction in the market. I won't write them off yet though, not until Nokia gets a good crack at making it successful.

Likewise, I also won't write off WebOS until HP gets their college try, but thus far I've been underwhelmed at what I see as HPs execution strategy (or lack thereof).
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driven
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Jun 18, 2011, 09:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
We've taken a couple of days off, gone wine sampling in Prince Edward County. The fact that I didn't need to schlep my laptop with me to stay in touch with my business pleases me no end. 3G is fast and available, Dropbox app on my iPad means I got access to all documents I might need to take a look at while we're away.

For me, this is as close to perfection as it gets.
I'm going to Hawaii tomorrow. No laptop. Just my iPad. :-) (oh, and a bluetooth keyboard for when I'm in the hotel room.)

If this is my future, I'm *really* going to like traveling a lot more.
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imitchellg5
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Jun 18, 2011, 10:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
The comparison is that Windows Phone 7 is widely considered to be a flop [so far].
Windows Phone 7 is a mobile smartphone OS, the BlackBerry PlayBook is a piece of tablet hardware.
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 18, 2011, 10:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
I actually really like the look/feel of the WinPhone7 devices. That said: For whatever reason they have gotten absolutely NO traction in the market. I won't write them off yet though, not until Nokia gets a good crack at making it successful.
Same here, they all feel very high-end, and Windows Phone 7 is very well polished for being so new.
     
Eug
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Jun 18, 2011, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
I'm going to Hawaii tomorrow. No laptop. Just my iPad. :-) (oh, and a bluetooth keyboard for when I'm in the hotel room.)

If this is my future, I'm *really* going to like traveling a lot more.
So a keyboard and an iPad. And a phone too?

For me, I take my iPhone, plus an 11.6" laptop. I leave the iPad at home. I have noticed my colleagues do the same. Well, some take the iPhone plus MacBook. Others take the iPhone plus MacBook AND iPad. I don't know anyone who takes just the iPhone and iPad, because it's hard to do real work on the iPad, but then again, in Hawaii that's probably a good thing.

Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
We've taken a couple of days off, gone wine sampling in Prince Edward County. The fact that I didn't need to schlep my laptop with me to stay in touch with my business pleases me no end. 3G is fast and available, Dropbox app on my iPad means I got access to all documents I might need to take a look at while we're away.

For me, this is as close to perfection as it gets.
I tried surfing on my iPhone 4 in Prince Edward County and it was a problem. A lot of sites just didn't work properly on iOS Safari, and some sites still used flash. However, that was a while ago. Perhaps they've changed their sites now.

A tethered laptop works great though.

EDIT:

Not quite there yet, but getting better.

eg. We stayed at the Waring House in Picton: www.waringhouse.com

The site links don't all work properly on the iPad, but you can still navigate around mostly.
( Last edited by Eug; Jun 18, 2011 at 10:17 PM. )
     
Phileas
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Jun 18, 2011, 10:32 PM
 
I use iCab Mobile as my main browser, which IMO is superior in every way to Safari. Hardly any problems ever.

The built in 3G, I am so glad I got this, means no fussing about with tethering, no worrying about charging multiple devices and schleping multiple chargers, no crappy battery life from a netbook or drained iPhone battery, no worries. Stuff just works, the way it should. Having my magazine subscriptions, my Kindle library and a bunch of movies with me is just an added bonus.

We've rented a cottage down by the sandbanks. Even out here in the bookies the connection is fast and stable.

I also still don't get your definition of "real work". I work on my iPad every single day. The work I do might not be the kind of work you do, which I believe involves heavy use of MS Office, but that doesn't make it in anynway less real.
( Last edited by Phileas; Jun 19, 2011 at 07:29 AM. )
     
Eug
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Jun 18, 2011, 10:41 PM
 
Perhaps, but MS Office is extremely common.

How much do you pay for 3G? I just tether my iPhone because tethering included in my 1 GB data contract, which is good for anywhere in Canada. It used to be USB only, but now it's USB and WiFi. I only use USB though.
     
Phileas
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Jun 18, 2011, 10:55 PM
 
I can open, edit and save Office docs with no problem. And again, just because in your world Office is a necessity doesn't mean the same is true for all others.

The 3G costs me 35 for 5GB - pay as you go, with no contract. Yes, that's an expense but it's a business expense so I don't mind.
     
Eug
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Jun 18, 2011, 11:05 PM
 
No, Office is not used by all, but it's probably one of the most common software packages used in the world, which was my point.

$35 for 5 GB PAYG is pretty good. With whom?

I pay $20 for 1 GB per month. It would have been $30 for 6 GB per month, but I didn't really need that much. That seems like paying a lot but it's a contract. I only paid $1xx for the iPhone, because it's being subsidized by my contract.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jun 18, 2011, 11:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
I'm going to Hawaii tomorrow. No laptop. Just my iPad. :-) (oh, and a bluetooth keyboard for when I'm in the hotel room.)

If this is my future, I'm *really* going to like traveling a lot more.
I'm calling the Governor of Hawaii and telling him to shut off all the wifi hotspots over there. Even in the hotel. Just for you, buddy.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 18, 2011, 11:14 PM
 
Huge Eug:

Fair enough. You seem to be more of the exception. Loving the iPad, and with Studiometry on there full access to business database anywhere in the world. It just works.

Using laptop less and less.
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 02:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
I use iCab Mobile as my main browser, which IMO is superior in every way to Safari. Hardly any problems ever.
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Phileas
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Jun 19, 2011, 07:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post

$35 for 5 GB PAYG is pretty good. With whom?
Rogers. Fast and reliable, really happy with it. And as I've said, I open, edit and save Office docs frequently with no problems.
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 09:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Rogers. Fast and reliable, really happy with it. And as I've said, I open, edit and save Office docs frequently with no problems.
Bell has the same pricing as well. I've even swapped my Bell iPad sim into my iPhone (something which Rogers blocks).
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 12:15 PM
 
How does that work? Does that turn the iPhone into an iPod Touch? Because the iPad sim comes without a phone number, right?
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 12:27 PM
 
My iPad has a phone number associated with it. I've never put it in my iPhone though. I'd like to know what happens too.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 19, 2011, 01:29 PM
 
I've swapped Telus, AT&T and Bell iPad SIMs into my iPhone. You need to apply an APN profile to the phone (easy, no jailbreak required). AT&T and Rogers will both block iPhones on their iPad plans now. Telus is pay-per-use and kept on over charging me by $100-150 (CSRs would just wipe out the difference for me). Bell, so far, just works.

The only difference from a regular iPhone plan is that there is no voice service, rendering the Phone and Messages apps useless. On Telus, phone service was still active (I accidentally dialed out a few times due to how easy iPhone makes it ... I suspect that's where the overcharges came from, even though their system and CSRs didn't seem to understand). Bell is completely pre-paid, so there's no chance of overages.

Given how little I make actual phone calls (most communication is email and text), this is perfect for me. Google Voice and Skype for calling out (quality over 3g is sometimes great, sometimes crap). Google Voice for text messaging. I keep a tiny Nokia in my bag with $25 prepaid from SpeakOut for the few times that I need reliable voice. My monthly mobile bill is only $35.

Concerns:
- FaceTime on iPhone requires a phone number with text messaging (unlike iPod, iPad and OSX). So, it doesn't work for me.
- it's possible that Bell will start blocking devices other than iPads from using their iPad plans.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 19, 2011, 03:38 PM
 
Officially off topic now. LOL.

I've been checking the media and man is RIM getting lambasted. Actually, there're reports that the trouble could just be getting started, and things could get a lot worse not just from a falling revenues perspective.

Back in 2009, apparently both of RIM's CEOs paid fines for backdating stocks. Now, digging up statements from the past few months from the CEOs, there's speculation that they knew the outlook was poor months ago but said contrary publicly/to shareholders.

Now that a major investor is essentially jumping ship, there's the threat of legal action against Balls Silly and Fat Head for lying about the company's outlook. That Emails and other correspondence are going to be demanded to be handed over to shareholders/investigators to determine whether they in fact knew the outlook was poor.

Balls Silly, when asked about whether new leadership should step in or about why 2 CEOs are needed, he said he didn't think the company could be taken as far as it was through trying times without 2 CEOs working together. This almost implies that while on paper things may have seemed ok for RIM, there's been a lot of uncertainty that they've known about for a long time. Accounting backflips?

Anyway... with all of RIM's famous Astroturfers, I don't put anything past these guys anymore. They're arrogant, misguided twits and RIM needs new leadership now and even if it gets it it's going to be a miracle if they make it out alive.

The world has changed, just like that RIM.

Yes, I am a bit upset because RIM's downfall will be a major blow to Canada. It's too bad such poor leadership has kept them there. Why are Boards of Directors such useless lightweights? Somebody get in there and save these guys.

RIM astroturfing:

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...-astroturfing/
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 04:05 PM
 
The trouble is that the world (read: market) has changed, but RIM hasn't noticed.

Gruber noted quite aptly:

They had a huge hit when "smartphones" were defined as always-on mobile messaging devices. That was something they were really good at.

The iPhone completely redefined the "smartphones" as a mobile computing devices, and RIM simply never quite grokked what that meant.
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 04:08 PM
 
I'd love to see the two CEOs get ousted. They're like the Anti-Jobs. They have no clue what consumers want, all they know is what they hope to sell.

Frankly I think RIM's best path would be to get bought by MS.
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 04:37 PM
 
^Which is phenomenally unlikely now that Microsoft has essentially gobbled up Nokia while calling it a partnership.

I'm not counting out RIM yet. They're still profitable, and even if that changes soon (which I doubt) they're still sitting on over $2bn in cash.
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Salty
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Jun 19, 2011, 04:48 PM
 
True, I imagine Microsoft wants to go it their own with Windows Phone 7. But I remember a few years ago there was chatter of Microsoft buying RIM. Back then I said it was a bad idea because I couldn't imagine RIM keeping their heads that far up their own holes. Turns out they really love the smell of butt holes ... probably explains the current phones.

I imagine Microsoft would have driven them further into the ground ... but seriously, this company is being horribly mismanaged.

At one point they had an end to end solution. What they should have been doing is pouring their money into software. They should have been selling businesses on low powered desktops that could handle more business centric applications, etc. RIM was probably the one company that had a real chance at toppling Microsoft Office ... but they completely blew that chance.
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
^Which is phenomenally unlikely now that Microsoft has essentially gobbled up Nokia while calling it a partnership.

I'm not counting out RIM yet. They're still profitable, and even if that changes soon (which I doubt) they're still sitting on over $2bn in cash.
Nobody really knows, but it's more likely that RIM is dead. That they won't recover because this has been brewing for some time. Even though their revenues are up 16% year-over-year, their profits are down year-over-year and sales are slipping. The increased revenues you're seeing are from global expansion, but it's made them less profitable.

RIM is $700 million short this quarter on their sales estimates, and they are laying off people.

You have to realize their BB OS is dead, and QNX/PlayBook are failing. A lot of people have seen this coming for some years now.

They have massive competition from Apple and Google with their hundreds of thousands of Apps. QNX has basically nothing, and developers have been critical of it.

More competition: Nokia and WP7 and webOS. You may think WP7 is going to be a flop, but to be honest, I think it's got a much better chance on the market than the cheap webOS rip off QNX does, and WP7 has a jump on QNX with a much stronger developer community. Nokia is also capable of making some nice smartphones and has huge clout in Europe.

webOS: Come back here in a few months. I guarantee you the TouchPad is going to whipe the floor with the PlayBook. And this is the problem: if the PlayBook fails which it is, RIM's strategy of getting QNX out in the world will have failed. And that means their entire business will have failed moving forward because QNX is their next smartphone OS. They don't have enough blood to bleed for 2 or 3 years to try their damnedest to get QNX flowing on their smartphones.

Meanwhile, everybody keeps buying Android phones and iPhones. RIM's at 12.9% smartphone marketshare worldwide and continues to slide. Their new product line up for the rest of this year is a complete joke. Nothing good at all. They use a few generations old processors in some of their phones for christ's sake.

Take a look at RIM from the inside: employee tells all:

http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-rim-employee-2011-6

That fat head CEO said no way to a foosball table!!! What a 2 dimensional dork.
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 05:37 PM
 
Breaking news!

Somebody just got some video of Jim Balsillie flipping out while driving. It was noted that all that anger was directed at Steve Jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8Y4iFrWk8
     
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Jun 19, 2011, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
I'd love to see the two CEOs get ousted. They're like the Anti-Jobs. They have no clue what consumers want, all they know is what they hope to sell.
What's funny is that both CEOs seem to have completely different visions, and they are both incredibly wrong. However, when you listen to RIM's engineers speak, they're very, very bright people, and they know where RIM needs to be. There seems to be some sort of internal disconnect, very similar to what we saw at Palm before HP bought them. Rubinstien walked around lambasting the iPhone and saying he'd never use one, while Palm's engineers for webOS would get on stage and call the iPhone the benchmark of the industry and that they need to be ahead of it.
     
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Jun 20, 2011, 12:39 AM
 
^That's why I'm not writing RIM off. The writing may be on the wall, but the company is still stocked with great talent. RIM is lacking only in leadership, but leadership can be changed quickly and I've no doubt that a change of some sort of is already being worked at.

RIM is a large, profitable company with nearly unparalleled name/brand recognition... not to mention a disproportionately good number of talented employees, along with a plenty sufficient pile of cash to fall back on.

RIM isn't dead yet, but it is doing damage to itself nevertheless.
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Jun 20, 2011, 03:47 AM
 
One thing RIM devices still do very well is allow their users to browse *internal* corporate Intranet sites without using a VPN. (The BES does the redirection as a cache server.)

I have not witnessed such functionality on iPhones, Windows Phones, or Androids. For some folks, this is a great feature! (It's also one of the hardest things that I've had to address when I convert a client from RIM to something other than RIM.)
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Jun 20, 2011, 04:20 AM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jun 20, 2011, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
RIM isn't dead yet, but it is doing damage to itself nevertheless.
Sure, but it's kinda fun watching Apple fans predict the demise of *other* companies.
     
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Jun 20, 2011, 09:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Haha.

However, even years ago, before the introduction of the iPhone, I thought their new products back then were clunky and felt old despite being brand new. That's why I was floored they were so popular.

I guess corporate support can get you some traction, but also it can only take you so far. Sony Ericsson OTOH had nice phones, but their phones had absolutely no consistency whatsoever, their software was completely useless, and they weren't corporate friendly either so they failed even quicker.
     
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Jun 20, 2011, 09:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
^That's why I'm not writing RIM off. The writing may be on the wall, but the company is still stocked with great talent. RIM is lacking only in leadership, but leadership can be changed quickly and I've no doubt that a change of some sort of is already being worked at.
But isn't the same true for many big tech companies, Microsoft in particular comes to mind: great engineers, but sucky management that fails to see/read/comprehend the writing on the wall.

@freudling
There is no inherent problem with QNX, they have a robust real-time POSIX-compliant (*nix) operating system. The problem is what is on top of QNX, i. e. APIs to make apps. Also, the other big, big problem of the PlayBook (beyond the name) is the missing built-in applications: for a company that has built its reputation on secure enterprise-class messaging to ship a product without native built-in e-mail client, for instance, is just ridiculous. Why not leave it in the oven for a few more months and ship a proper product?
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Jun 20, 2011, 10:18 AM
 
The PlayBook is the ultimate example of a panicked release.

A tablet without a mail client is just plain dumb. Almost based on that alone, many of my Blackberry loving colleagues just completely wrote off the PlayBook. The other ones didn't write it off entirely... but still didn't buy it.
     
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Jun 20, 2011, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
But isn't the same true for many big tech companies, Microsoft in particular comes to mind: great engineers, but sucky management that fails to see/read/comprehend the writing on the wall.
Right, and Microsoft isn't exactly a sinking ship... if anything, they're going through a renaissance at the moment.
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Jun 20, 2011, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
Right, and Microsoft isn't exactly a sinking ship... if anything, they're going through a renaissance at the moment.
How so?

They're not a sinking ship, but I'm not sure how they're rejuvenated either. It seems rather slow and steady to me.
     
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Jun 20, 2011, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
But isn't the same true for many big tech companies, Microsoft in particular comes to mind: great engineers, but sucky management that fails to see/read/comprehend the writing on the wall.

@freudling
There is no inherent problem with QNX, they have a robust real-time POSIX-compliant (*nix) operating system. The problem is what is on top of QNX, i. e. APIs to make apps. Also, the other big, big problem of the PlayBook (beyond the name) is the missing built-in applications: for a company that has built its reputation on secure enterprise-class messaging to ship a product without native built-in e-mail client, for instance, is just ridiculous. Why not leave it in the oven for a few more months and ship a proper product?
Some good points. In my opinion, QNX sucks. I spent some more time with the PlayBook yesterday and the performance was terrible. There is NO inertial scrolling for instance: choppy as hell. Look and feel? Cheap Chinese knock off of webOS and iOS. Browsing was terrible. Rendered pages looked all off. On and on.

Geek talk is one thing. End user experience is all that matters and RIM has blown it.

TouchPad is kicking around Vancouver and believe me, it's sick. QNX is like webOS's evil imposter brother.
     
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Jun 20, 2011, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Some good points. In my opinion, QNX sucks. I spent some more time with the PlayBook yesterday and the performance was terrible. There is NO inertial scrolling for instance: choppy as hell. Look and feel? Cheap Chinese knock off of webOS and iOS. Browsing was terrible. Rendered pages looked all off. On and on.

Geek talk is one thing. End user experience is all that matters and RIM has blown it.

TouchPad is kicking around Vancouver and believe me, it's sick. QNX is like webOS's evil imposter brother.
I still think the lack of a hold button hurts the Playbook as well. Yes, a geek can easily figure out that sliding your finger upward works, but only after it's explained to them. It's simply not intuitive for the general user. (and worse, when you are in a web-browser it's hard to get it to stop scrolling up for the gesture to work properly.) A really basic UI element becomes complicated. They failed to copy the one item they SHOULD have copied from Apple.
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Jun 20, 2011, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Some good points. In my opinion, QNX sucks.
I just wanted to point out that one should distinguish between QNX (which is a very good and proven real-time OS) and what BlackBerry apparently calls BlackBerry Tablet OS. Although QNX is much more succinct and easy to remember
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
Right, and Microsoft isn't exactly a sinking ship... if anything, they're going through a renaissance at the moment.
Beyond their two cash cows, Windows and Office, they don't have any other sources of significant revenue. The XBox business wasn't profitable until recently and even now, the revenue generated by it pales in comparison to Windows and Office.

I admit that these are very good legs to stand on now, but Microsoft is nowhere to be found in newer IT technologies, be it cloud computing, smart phones or tablets. They are trying to enter the smart phone market, but so far, they've failed to take the market by storm. In fact, their mobile OS share has shrunk. Microsoft won't have a touch-based tablet OS until fall 2012. They have all the necessary technologies, but so far, they haven't put them together (be it Versions, iCloud, Dropbox).

Although I have to agree, I see lights at the end of the tunnel for MS. Let's hope it's not a train
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Jun 20, 2011, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I just wanted to point out that one should distinguish between QNX (which is a very good and proven real-time OS) and what BlackBerry apparently calls BlackBerry Tablet OS. Although QNX is much more succinct and easy to remember

Beyond their two cash cows, Windows and Office, they don't have any other sources of significant revenue. The XBox business wasn't profitable until recently and even now, the revenue generated by it pales in comparison to Windows and Office.

I admit that these are very good legs to stand on now, but Microsoft is nowhere to be found in newer IT technologies, be it cloud computing, smart phones or tablets. They are trying to enter the smart phone market, but so far, they've failed to take the market by storm. In fact, their mobile OS share has shrunk. Microsoft won't have a touch-based tablet OS until fall 2012. They have all the necessary technologies, but so far, they haven't put them together (be it Versions, iCloud, Dropbox).

Although I have to agree, I see lights at the end of the tunnel for MS. Let's hope it's not a train
Microsoft had a many year headstart into Mobile. Windows Mobile 6.x *was* the defacto mobile-OS for lots of companies (and is still the main OS for most scanners.) The UI and maintenance experience sucked. When something better came along the installed base hit the door faster than anything I've ever seen.

MS also had a 10 year+ head start into tablets. They *still* haven't figured out that a full-blown desktop PC with a touch UI isn't what is going to sell. Once again from MS: Right idea (visionary) with horrible execution.
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