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thesuperfly · 01:12 AM

Apple's newest upgrades are pathetic to say the least. With Apple's continued dwingling market share, these lack luster attempts to capture market share are failures.

The Mac community was far better off when their was COMPETITION - especially from PowerComputing who really pushed the engineering and development envelopes. The only problem was that Apple didn't seem able to keep pace so they killed the clone program. Motorola lost a lot of money. It's nice to see that they are supplying Apple with such fine processors to make their money back. Not.

Apple likes to boast that they have the same market share as BMW. The only problem is that Apple is NOT BMW.

Now we're wondering about the new G5, or whatever they will call it. Apple needs a 3.5-4ghz chip, be it the G4 or whatever or they can forget about enticing a meanigful number of people to switch. If they plan on a supposed "G5" with a 1.8 figure that's being kicked around, it won't cut it - even if it's a 64-bit. It would be great for the upscale market, but is meaningless for the general consumer who buy in a large enough quantity that will inspire software development to support the Mac platform.

Another problem is the fact that the Mac OS will soon slip to the third spot, behind Linux. On top of that, Windows is really advancing their software to challange Mac. The question then begs: Is it really worth an extra $1,000. to pay for an OS? Consumers are responding with a resounding no. In total, the line between Windows and Mac is becoming blured with each update.

Education. You can kiss this one goodbye. Why did Apple feel the need to kill the 3.5" floppy drive? Walk into ANY University and you'll see students downloading documents onto these disks. Apple should have at least kept the 3.5" for the education market or made it optional. For those who think the 3.5" is worthless, you'll find that all of BMW's desktop models use 3.5" disk drives too. Yes, Apple is no BMW.

What does Apple need? Competition within the market to push engineering and design to its fullest. The lack of competition produces results we're seeing now - stagnation - the 50% reduction is MAC tower sales speaks for itself.

A bitter pill to swallow.

Superchicken · Jan 30, 2003, 01:22 AM

I do my you are a troll dance for you

By the way Apple can't really come out with a better chip themselves chips cost money to create. And who says apple will market the 1.8Ghz number? Why not comparable to a 3Ghz P4? That's what AMD does. And it works fine for them.

1.8Ghz with a PPC 970 is GOOD and it'll get better revision after revision, apple doesn't need a 4Ghz Chip, if they had a 333Mhz chip that could beat a 3Ghz chip I'd go with the 333Mhz one.

Cipher13 · Jan 30, 2003, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
I do my you are a troll dance for you

By the way Apple can't really come out with a better chip themselves chips cost money to create. And who says apple will market the 1.8Ghz number? Why not comparable to a 3Ghz P4? That's what AMD does. And it works fine for them.

1.8Ghz with a PPC 970 is GOOD and it'll get better revision after revision, apple doesn't need a 4Ghz Chip, if they had a 333Mhz chip that could beat a 3Ghz chip I'd go with the 333Mhz one.

You have no idea what the 970 will be like.

We need a marketable number.

Yeah, Apple may take the AMD strategy, but that may not help.

He isn't trolling... it's a sad truth.

Superchicken · Jan 30, 2003, 01:49 AM

marketable number... what do you think the gigaflop was supposed to be... unfortunately the gigaflop was a flop... hehe

Yeah uhh... acctually consumers now adays rarely know what Mhz their machine has.

Thinine · Jan 30, 2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by thesuperfly:
The Mac community was far better off when their was COMPETITION - especially from PowerComputing who really pushed the engineering and development envelopes. The only problem was that Apple didn't seem able to keep pace so they killed the clone program. Motorola lost a lot of money. It's nice to see that they are supplying Apple with such fine processors to make their money back. Not.

No one, not PowerComputer, not UMAX, can make Motorola produce faster chips. You think Apple likes producing towers with lower clock chips? Of course not, it costs them money. The fact of the matter is that Moto just doesn't care about the desktop processor market enough to develop for it. Apple's declining sales are 100% Moto's fault and the only one who can fix it is Moto.

Originally posted by thesuperfly:
Now we're wondering about the new G5, or whatever they will call it. Apple needs a 3.5-4ghz chip, be it the G4 or whatever or they can forget about enticing a meanigful number of people to switch. If they plan on a supposed "G5" with a 1.8 figure that's being kicked around, it won't cut it - even if it's a 64-bit. It would be great for the upscale market, but is meaningless for the general consumer who buy in a large enough quantity that will inspire software development to support the Mac platform.

A 1.8 GHz PPC970 is only the beginning. IBM knows how to squeeze performance out of their chips, especially when they'll be using them in their own products. Also, it's likely that Apple will ship dual processor 970 systems, so a 1.8GHz chip will at least even the playing field. Also, Mac software production is at an all time high, thanks to OS X. We have more apps now than we've had in a long while.

Originally posted by thesuperfly:
Another problem is the fact that the Mac OS will soon slip to the third spot, behind Linux. On top of that, Windows is really advancing their software to challange Mac. The question then begs: Is it really worth an extra $1,000. to pay for an OS? Consumers are responding with a resounding no. In total, the line between Windows and Mac is becoming blured with each update.

Linux is absolutely no challenge to Apple's market share. It has no where near the UI of OS X or the number of consumer apps. And you must not use Windows much if you think its real Mac like.

Originally posted by thesuperfly:
Education. You can kiss this one goodbye. Why did Apple feel the need to kill the 3.5" floppy drive? Walk into ANY University and you'll see students downloading documents onto these disks. Apple should have at least kept the 3.5" for the education market or made it optional. For those who think the 3.5" is worthless, you'll find that all of BMW's desktop models use 3.5" disk drives too. Yes, Apple is no BMW.

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What university did you see this at? I go to ISU and no one uses floppies! We can transfer 1.4 MBs in about 2 secs on our internal network. The only thing Apple needs to gain market share in the education arena is lower prices. If they can get their mainstream sales up higher, they'll be able to offer better discounts.

That post wasn't the truth, merely an idiots take on Apple's position. I mean, he even capitalized Mac.

Mac Zealot · Jan 30, 2003, 02:43 AM

lol yeah. MAC! o_O

Floppies are dead. Face it. I have 5 PCs dude, and my network is soooo much faster than a damn floppy drive.

I can send a piece of data TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS PLANET faster than I can send it to a floppy, and I'm not kidding here.

Face the damn facts. Oh yeah, for reference I ripped the floppy drives outta my laptops so they could be lighter and not a single one of my PCs has one anymore.

DavisH · Jan 30, 2003, 02:55 AM

The whole G4 sucks and where is the G5 argument will never end but as for software. They can�t fix the hardware issue its moto�s fault (I wont go into that) So what do they do they design the BEST operating system G5 comes they have the best Hardware and the best software. 6 months people (I hope)

�Another problem is the fact that the Mac OS will soon slip to the third spot, behind Linux. On top of that, Windows is really advancing their software to challenge Mac.�

I don�t know much about linux. I have Red Hat 8.0 partitioned on an old PIII but I can assure you it doesn�t even come close to OSX or Windows. Like it�s useless it has no media apps its office products are a joke. I installed it played with it for like 10 minutes and haven�t touched it since now maybe I missed something but I highly bought it. I see Linux to be more of server software and that kinda thing (reliability and such)

Windows advancing there software. Where??????????With the annoying resource pack�s that I have to download once a week. Apple�s got the media side in the bag Windows media player is just plane annoying (Wow I can download skins and make my music player look all pretty). Explorer ya it was great then this is now. I love safari finally a search engine that doesn�t have all that crap around it, like I want my search bar my favorites like what do I need all this other crap for. Windows MovieMaker that is a disgrace to the industry like really. It is the lamest thing ever (The cheapest nock off of iMovie) Window�s Office products they are so old like really yes they were revolutionary 5 years ago (Or when ever they daubed) but I want something better. All windows has done to there office products is fix bugs add a little color here and call it an upgrade (charging you $400 to upgrade). I haven�t tried keynote yet but I am sure it will make power point look old (which it is).

People are going to be looking for an alternative for Windows. People are going to get fed up with downloading resource packs (I know I am). People are going to get sick of buying useless upgrades. Windows is going with what has worked in the PAST cause it�s made then a lot of MONEYYYYYYYYY. But there is a time when going with what works in the PAST becomes the PAST. (Past key word) And knowing Microsoft and their stubbornness as a whole (Bill) they will get burned. The market is changing people are no longer thrilled that it�s easy to type reports and crap on the computer. People are buying digital cameras, Video cameras, and Mp3 players, which are becoming very affordable. And people are going to be looking for the tools that make is easy to get the most out of their digital toys. What will they do one word APPLE?

Steve must peeing himself with these forums. Are G4 is slower then the new P4 by 10 seconds they have finally caught up (after how many years��.2) We are 10 seconds slower are operating system sucks now.

Come on you guys like really (your going to look really bad in 6-10 months when the 970 just kills everything)

DavisH · Jan 30, 2003, 03:01 AM

Thinine

Mac Zealot

You said it guys I forgot about the floppy comment in there. Like really I think that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Floppy right 1.44mb of storage that�s what they forgot in the eMac. I was trying to think of something? What did Apple forget?? Floppy that�s it!!!!!!

I Bent My Wookiee · Jan 30, 2003, 03:35 AM

So "thesuperfly" what do you use your computer for and why are you still using Mac's?

D'Espice · Jan 30, 2003, 03:37 AM

Yo SuperMan... err, SuperFly: TROLL!

PacHead · Jan 30, 2003, 05:12 AM

You know, I was just about to order a DUAL 1.4, but when I realized there was no 3.5" Floppy Drive, I became enraged that such a highly esteemed company such as Apple, would choose to neglect such a vital piece of equipment, neccesary and much needed for todays savvy mac user !

Oh, the humanity !

DrBoar · Jan 30, 2003, 06:06 AM

Both places I worked at have used ZIP disk the last 6 years or so. The last time I ever saw a floppy in sporadic use was in the 90s.

email for floppy sized files
USB pen drive up to 128 MB or so
CDRW for the bigger files.
I see no need for eitehr floppies or ZIP disk now.

There is a gem in the upgrades.
I was about to order a dual 867 and 17" to use at work. The same amount of moeny now will get me a dual 1.25 and a 17" and 128 MB USB pendrive and a 512 MB DDR RAM and still have some spare change.

Not only is the CPU speed bosted allmost 50% the graphcial card is better and the HD is 40 GB bigger. That is the good deal in the curent line up.

The single 1GHz is to little even at that price point. A 1.25 would have been less bad.

The 1.42 is only a very marginal 13.6% speed boost. The only nice thing is the faster SuperDrives and the (BTO) Radeon 9700.

So one in the row of acceptable but hardly very exciting variants of G4 towers, wake me upp when the IBM 970 comes

Skypat · Jan 30, 2003, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by DavisH:
I don�t know much about linux. I have Red Hat 8.0 partitioned on an old PIII but I can assure you it doesn�t even come close to OSX or Windows.

-> Yes but in terms of market share, the danger for Mac OS is to slip from the little #2 to the even more litlle #3. Even if Linux has no immediate future for consumers, it's gonna rock in the business market.

People are going to be looking for an alternative for Windows. People are going to get fed up with downloading resource packs (I know I am). People are going to get sick of buying useless upgrades. Windows is going with what has worked in the PAST cause it�s made then a lot of MONEYYYYYYYYY. But there is a time when going with what works in the PAST becomes the PAST. (Past key word) And knowing Microsoft and their stubbornness as a whole (Bill) they will get burned. The market is changing people are no longer thrilled that it�s easy to type reports and crap on the computer. People are buying digital cameras, Video cameras, and Mp3 players, which are becoming very affordable. And people are going to be looking for the tools that make is easy to get the most out of their digital toys. What will they do one word APPLE?

-> I am always very surprised when I speak to people about computers ... and Apple. Most of those people don't know anything about what's the difference between a PC or a Mac. All they know is an Apple is nice, expensive and not compatible. They see Windows XP as THE multimedia OS. And for them I guess Windows Movie Maker is the reference. They have no point of comparison. They don't care about megahertz (they don't even know what it is).

Apple NEVER advertise their software. Have you ever seen a commercial on TV about iMovie ? iDVD ? About Jaguar ? No. Never. All you see is commercials about hardware. Always hardware. Microsoft says "do amazing things with Windows XP". Apple should have run that commercial "Do amazing things with your Mac".

And the sadest thing is when people remember a Mac they used a few years ago (college ...). They still remember the computer that crashed all the time (Mac OS 7) or even "with the black and white interface".

Apple needs another ad agency, more than anything else

Patrick

chris v · Jan 30, 2003, 09:14 AM

For those who think the 3.5" is worthless, you'll find that all of BMW's desktop models use 3.5" disk drives too.

[/B]

Huh?

BMW's desktop models? Can you provide a link? I'd like to see on of those!

CV

dencamp · Jan 30, 2003, 09:45 AM

Skypat-

I agree they need to put more muscle behind hyping the software if for no other reason than to extend the reality distortion field that obscures moto's lackluster performance, but they have done a few ads for imovie, iphoto and itunes.

Apple Pro Underwear · Jan 30, 2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by chris v:
Huh?

BMW's desktop models? Can you provide a link? I'd like to see on of those!

CV

IBM's marketing dept is smiling a little bit right now

solitere · Jan 30, 2003, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by thesuperfly:
Another problem is the fact that the Mac OS will soon slip to the third spot, behind Linux. On top of that, Windows is really advancing their software to challange Mac. The question then begs: Is it really worth an extra $1,000. to pay for an OS? Consumers are responding with a resounding no. In total, the line between Windows and Mac is becoming blured with each update.

You have no idea how pathetic your view are on Apple hardware and OS.

What are Windows advancing too.... OK have not the time or interest to comment your post no more...

I only wish you good luck with your floppydrive and your PC with windows and a mailprogram that thinks that PDF-files are viruses!

Un-Inferior · Jan 30, 2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Thinine:

That post wasn't the truth, merely an idiots take on Apple's position. I mean, he even capitalized Mac.

when you insult others, either you have nothing to say, or the truth is just hurting you. and what the hell is ISU? i went to UCLA (obviously you've heard of that) and currently work there and all the students keep their email prefs on floppies. all the macs have 3rd party floppy drives.

kupan787 · Jan 30, 2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Un-Inferior:
when you insult others, either you have nothing to say, or the truth is just hurting you. and what the hell is ISU? i went to UCLA (obviously you've heard of that) and currently work there and all the students keep their email prefs on floppies. all the macs have 3rd party floppy drives.

ISU, I am guessing, is Iowa State university?

At any rate, I have been to 3 college campuses (UCSC, San Jose State, OIT), mainly touring but I got to sit in on some lab classes to see how things went. Yes there were floppy drives on the PCs (yea Dell!). However, 90% of the students in the labs didn't use them. Most would either email files around, or use there own laptop plugged into the campus network.

I personally haven't used a floppy in years. When at home, we just bounce files around are network, burn a CD (if it is big), or just print on the USB shared printer.

dr. zoidberg · Jan 30, 2003, 03:34 PM

haha... i can�t stop laughing my butt off about that floppy statement.

uh no, now i get it. that�s just one of us, having nasty fun with the community, eh? ok, ok, now step out of the dark buddy, who are you really?

eddiecatflap · Jan 30, 2003, 03:50 PM

..proaudio mk 2 ?

..motorola are the problem here , not apple.

eddiecatflap · Jan 30, 2003, 03:52 PM

..he got one thing rite.. apple are no bmw , no , they're better than that.

..they're a mercedes.

HA!

highfalutintodd · Jan 30, 2003, 04:58 PM

Apple NEVER advertise their software. Have you ever seen a commercial on TV about iMovie ? iDVD ? About Jaguar ? No. Never. All you see is commercials about hardware. Always hardware. [/B]

While I agree that Apple never seems to advertise enough (I can't blink or turn around twice without running into a freaking Dell ad assaulting me), they have advertised their software before. I remember commercials for iTunes (well, basically it was for the iPod, but iTunes got some good screen time - ad where the fellow pulls the music from his Mac onto his iPod and then starts jamming out to it; there was also the ad with all of the musicians up on stage while the kid directed what songs he wanted) and iDVD (the bohemian couple getting married on the beach and then sending the DVD of the ceremony off to mom and dad). I could have sworn I remember an ad about iPhoto, too, but I could be hallucinating.

My biggest complaint about advertising is the complete lack of thereof that Apple does for their retail stores. I know the idea is to get them into high traffic area where people will just walk past them, but you have no idea how many people I talked to in the Dallas area who were interested in Macs, but had no idea there was an Apple store there. The stores are a great idea. ADVERTISE THEM.

And while I don't want to validate the trolling of the original poster, I will say that I'm patiently waiting for teh PPC970. If it doesn't rock the house when it arrives...

Mac Zealot · Jan 30, 2003, 04:59 PM

I've always thought more like bently

*shrug*

Look, it's better than it was before, and if the upgrades come every 3 months, we're fine.

clarkgoble · Jan 30, 2003, 05:41 PM

A few thoughts.

I think Linux is a competitor to Apple. First off XServe is heading towards the same market area. Yes Apple, as a combination hardware and software manufactures isn't strictly competing with Linux. It is more competing with say a Dell running Linux. But it is competition nonetheless. Now they are going after a slightly different niche.

I think that they are going after the desktop for Unix market. And they are doing a much better job than say KDE. Right now the performance problems of the G4+ are limiting acceptance outside of the laptop market. But if you go to Slashdot you'll see just how many Linux "switchers" there are. (Actually most switchers have Linux boxes for servers and then Mac boxes for desktop or applications)

As for floppies - they really are dead. Even amongst students it is often just as easy to bring a USB or Firewire based hard drive and plug it in. I can't remember the last time I used a floppy. Further you can buy them for a very low price if you need them.

Norty · Jan 30, 2003, 06:28 PM

thesuperfly has got it all wrong. While mghz may be lacking in new Mac boxes, at least they work--consitstently. I teach computer art on lame Dell boxes (Photoshop, Painter, Illustrator). I'll trade older Mac computers for any one of them, any day. I can't remember the last time my Mac froze in Photoshop. On a Windows Dell, it's a daily occurance. What's my suggestion to students? Move to another computer and see if that one works! Macs print what they are supposed to print. Fonts print. The color is accurate. And, the Mac OS is more intuitive and graphical--it looks better; it feels better. You can't measure that in megahertz.

Scotttheking · Jan 30, 2003, 06:37 PM

Hmm, I guess no one learned the most important lesson a parent can teach.
"Don't feed the trolls"

So I consulted aikoball.

Scott: aikoball, should I lock the troll thread in powermac?
Scott: aiko, aikoball
* aiko the Magic 8-Ball says: I Believe So