Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

MOTHERWELL · May 3, 2007, 03:58 PM

I was wondering if the apps out there are able to take advantage of the 8 cores in the new Mac Pros.

I have the opportunity to get a good deal on a new Mac, so I would like to upgrade to the best possible computer, but if those extra cores are going to sit idle the entire time it might be better to stick with a quad.

I'd like to hear some real world opinions from those of you that have the 8 core. What apps are you using? FCP , After Effects, and Photoshop are my main apps. I am assuming that Final Cut Studio 2 will take advantage of these cores, but I don't know about Adobe.

Also, what graphics card did you go with? I would like to get a 30" along with my mac, and I want to have some powerful graphics capabilities.

Thanks.

sosumi1981 · May 3, 2007, 05:08 PM

I've had my OctoPro for about a week now, and so far I love it. I transitioned from an AGP G4 (500MHz) however, so this is my first real experience with a Multi-core machine. In answer to your graphics card question, I went with the ATI x1900xt. You could go with the Nvidia QuadroPro 4500 card, but you'll be dishing out some serious coin for that mother. I would suggest going with the ATI for now, and maybe upgrading when Nvidia comes out with a Mac version of their newer cards. There is no application out there that takes advantage of 8 cores, and little that take advantage of 4. Unfortunatley, there is so much that goes into multi-processing, not just applications, but the OS as well, etc. Hopefully Leopard will be able to handle multi-core systems and threading at a higher, more sophisticated level than Tiger. If you read some posts by others, either on MacNN, Appleinsider, MacWorld, etc. you'll see that there are some problems with the current OctoPro (such as a memory bottleneck), which in some ways limits its 8 core capabilities. So, I guess it depends on how bad you want the biggest, baddest boy around, and if you get a good enough deal on it, then you might as well, if not you'd be more than fine sticking with the Quad core.

mduell · May 3, 2007, 05:14 PM

Compressor 3 (in FCS2) takes advantage of them.

Oversoul · May 3, 2007, 07:19 PM

Bare Feats did some speed tests between the quad-core and octo-core recently: CPU Crunch Tests of the 8-Core Mac Pro vs 4-Core

Looks like you won't see much benefit with Photoshop (even still, upgrade to Creative Suite 3 to take advantage of the speed boosts under Universal Binary), but you should see gains on the octo with FCP and QT.

MOTHERWELL · 07:54 PM

Thanks for the links.

I never really believed that the apps were taking advantage of the quad cores on my G5, so that is why I am skeptical about stepping up to 8 cores

I may be better off getting another quad and getting more RAM and disk space.

EDIT: wow...after reading about the benchmarks it seems like AE CS3 can really scream. This is what I was hoping.....oh what a dilemma! EIGHT CORES TO THE MAXXXXXXXX.

Westfoto · May 3, 2007, 10:21 PM

Adobe was one of the first ones to take advantage of the multiprocessor Macs. There are reports out there that the new CS3 Photoshop with a 8 core Mac is one heck of a pair. Very Fast.

rehoot · May 6, 2007, 11:24 AM

I have a Mac Pro Quad, and each application is different with respect to use of multiple cores. I don't have CS3, but it looks like other people gave you some info on that. If you are working with gigantic image files or HD Video, you'll want multiple drives arranged in a RAID configuration, and you should also consider a good uninterruptible power supply (UPS), and a good backup system is essential. Lots of RAM is also a big speed increase. I have 4GB and a login script to create a RAM drive for one app that is otherwise slow. If you have a precise idea of how much scratch space you need, you could point to the RAM drive as scratch and really scream!

Your options for internal RAID would be
1) 4 internal drives striped into one logical drive (very fast, but if one drive fails you loose everything). If you do this, you need a good backup system with external drives and you need to make incremental backups during the day.
2) Four drives arranged into two RAID 0 arrays. You could divide each of those into two volumes and maintain a clone your boot volume so that if one array fails, you can boot from the other. That boot volume could be relatively small. Depending how you use your drives, two RAID 0 arrays might be almost as fast as option 0.
3) Four drives with one RAID 0 and one RAID 1 (two drives in each array). The RAID 1 has redundancy so that if one drive fails you just keep running. Depending how much space you use, you could use the RAID 1 as a place for an internal backup of your other array. I use this option.
4) Two-drive RAID 0 with external backup plan.

MOTHERWELL · May 7, 2007, 09:57 PM

Well after looking into it I don't think it is necessary to upgrade yet. My G5 Quad still has plenty of power and is capable to work with HD projects.

Nucleo gives me the ability to use all four cores for rendering in After Effects. CS3 has this feature built in, but is not due to be released until the end of the year.

cgc · May 7, 2007, 10:24 PM

When I first read your subject I thought going from 4-core G5 to 8-core XEON was a waste of money and in most cases it seems like it is. The BareFeats tests showed very little performance increase in PS CS3. I'd hold out with your G5 a while longer.

QuadG5Man · May 8, 2007, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Compressor 3 (in FCS2) takes advantage of them.

links? Barefeats doesn't have any Final Cut/Compressor benchmarks, I demand an update.

mduell · May 8, 2007, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by QuadG5Man

links? Barefeats doesn't have any Final Cut/Compressor benchmarks, I demand an update.

CatOne · May 8, 2007, 12:51 PM

I recently upgraded from the Quad G5 to an 8-core Mac Pro. It is definitely faster in Aperture.

I don't do much work with Final Cut, so I can't say there. But I'd expect over time the speed difference between the two will grow. There's a lot more cache in the Xeons, and I feel in general latency is a lot better.

Oh, and one thing which is fantastically better is the noise level. The Quad G5 was a very, VERY loud machine -- it had an ambient noise level of say 60 dB. Maybe it was because I had the 7800 GT graphics card, but there was a constant drone, which would rev up when the GPU fan kicked in to high gear. The Mac Pro is positively SILENT by comparison. Amazing how much nicer it is. I have the X1900XT graphics card -- if you're going to be using FCS 2 with Motion, you'll want that card as it's a LOT faster than the 7300GT for 3D stuff.

Should you upgrade now? Maybe. Depends on how much you can sell the old G5 for. It cost me about $1300 to upgrade.

MOTHERWELL · May 8, 2007, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

The Quad G5 was a very, VERY loud machine

True. The intels are silent compared to the G5s.

However, my G5 is 'silent' compared to my MDD G4 which sounded like a vacuum.

peeb · May 8, 2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by MOTHERWELL

True. The intels are silent compared to the G5s.

However, my G5 is 'silent' compared to my MDD G4 which sounded like a vacuum.

The only time you get sound in a vacuum is in sci-fi.

ninahagen · May 8, 2007, 03:28 PM

My vote is to wait for the new MP form factor. I was red hot to upgrade too, but after significant time researching it, I changed my mind.

I have a G5 Quad 2.5 running CS2, and I am at 55+ seconds on the Photoshop Speed Test (when I do all the history state, RAM and restart requirements. another thread in this forum). The fastest machines on that thread (both 4 and 8 cores come in just under 30 seconds given at least 3-4GB of RAM), so only twice as quick. Yes that is a significant difference, but not mind bending.The new form factor should be here soon, and with Leopard should scream. If you buy the current 8-core now, it won't be appreciable faster in PS and you will kick yourself in a couple months when the new one is out... how much RAM do you use in your G5 now, and how much do you multi-task?

JimReid · May 8, 2007, 09:14 PM

ninahagan has written:

"The new form factor should be here soon, and with Leopard should scream. If you buy the current 8-core now, it won't be appreciable faster in PS and you will kick yourself in a couple months when the new one is out."

I am close to ordering a new Mac Pro, loaded; principal only application I will use is Hauptwerk, a pipe organ recreating program with excellent results, for info if interested, see:

Crumhorn Labs - Makers of the Hauptwerk Virtual Pipe Organ

and in particular Martin Dyde's comments about why use a Mac Pro with this program here(the correct URL will come up, in spite of the name below):

Crumhorn Labs - Makers of the Hauptwerk Virtual Pipe Organ

and, for specific Mac Pro specs, see:

Crumhorn Labs - Makers of the Hauptwerk Virtual Pipe Organ

Obviously the platform will be even better come OS X 5, or "Leopard".
I already have both the MOTU 24 I/O and the MOTU Express midi interface.

So, I was about to place an order for the suggested system configuration,
then I read the quote above!?

I know about the coming of Leopard in October or November, but
WHAT is the "new form factor"? Seems it might be along by August or so.
Maybe I should wait for my order until then?

Thanks for comments.

mac128k-1984 · May 9, 2007, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by ninahagen

The new form factor should be here soon, and with Leopard should scream.

New formfactor - do you mean a new enclosure or new CPUs? Since they just came out with the 8 core option, I'm not so sure an update is going to happen so soon.

If you buy the current 8-core now, it won't be appreciable faster in PS and you will kick yourself in a couple months when the new one is out.

There always a newer faster model coming around the bend whether that bend is 6 months or 18 months. No matter what you buy, it will be surpassed. If you have a need now or if a faster machine allows you to finish work sooner,i.e., time is money. Then there's little reason to wait IMHO.

ninahagen · May 9, 2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

New formfactor - do you mean a new enclosure or new CPUs?

Both. I cannot believe that the Leopard launch won't include an update for the Mac Pro. Also I have heard from many places an enclosure redesign is in the works, one with cooling vents on top.

Either way, he already has a machine that is fine for his needs, and until Leopard with superior threading to the cores, he wouldn't get much extra juice, so he might as well wait for the next OS anyway.

mduell · May 9, 2007, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

New formfactor - do you mean a new enclosure or new CPUs? Since they just came out with the 8 core option, I'm not so sure an update is going to happen so soon.

Formfactor usually means exterior shape.
Next CPU update for the Mac Pro should be in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Intel was demoing some 3.33Ghz quads last month based on the new core/process (Penryn @ 45nm).

JimReid · May 9, 2007, 10:40 PM

Ok, have decided to wait for whatever Mac Pro Apple brings out later on;
after the release of Leopard and maybe even the 45nm CPU.
Thanks for the info.........

analogika · May 10, 2007, 04:53 AM

Don't hold your breath. ninahagen's posts are just hopeful speculation, but just that.

SierraDragon · May 10, 2007, 08:52 PM

Personally I expect internal changes soon. I could care less about external changes anyway. Current MP graphics are lame for an alleged highest end graphics workstation, so a multi-card solution is overdue. Case changes and/or a CPU speed bump could happen, but IMO multicard modern graphics support is what is badly needed.

-Allen Wicks

cgc · May 10, 2007, 10:37 PM

I'd like to see hardware RAID implementation and a better base graphics card.

rehoot · May 11, 2007, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by cgc

I'd like to see hardware RAID implementation and a better base graphics card.

Do you mean that you would like to see them included at the current list price? You could easily see them if you cough up many hundreds of dollars!