[Brass]

It sure ain't the intended market, but if I wanted to buy a new computer for a server, I'd sure consider the Mac Mini. Most systems administrators have no need for Mac OS X Server, when Mac OS X (client) comes bundled with the machine, and is just as powerful for serving. You just miss out of some of the admin utilities, which are unnecessary, and most of which are easily replaceable with free alternatives, anyhow.

For a server, I don't need a monitor, keyboard or mouse (so long as I can borrow one occasionally from elsewhere for there rare occasions that some setup/maintenance can't be done over SSH/VNC/etc).

And it's about a 5th of the price of the XServe. In fact, you could build a cluster of 5 Mac Minis for the cost of 1 low-end XServe.

It sure has enough grunt to do a lot of small to mid-range serving.

Looks like a good cheap server to me, and I could probably fit about 9 of them on one shelf in a rack!

I wonder about overheating it. Surely such a small machine is not built to withstand constant disk access and CPU usage. I wouldn't use it for heavy serving.

If it's just for your home network, it should be ok. Might want to check with Apple though.

[Steve Bosell]

I would like at least RAID 1 though, I guess you could add a firewire drive and back it up every night to the other drive.....

[Brass]

Originally posted by Steve Bosell:
I would like at least RAID 1 though, I guess you could add a firewire drive and back it up every night to the other drive.....

Or connect it to an XServe-RAID array.

[Steve Bosell]

don't you need fiber for xserve raid? plus a $500 computer and a $5000 raid? LOL!!!

[Brass]

Originally posted by Steve Bosell:
don't you need fiber for xserve raid? plus a $500 computer and a $5000 raid? LOL!!!

That's true

[historylme]

Shouldn't this thread now, officially be in the troubleshoot section, aka, Imac Emac and Mac Mini forum?

I think it might be moved, per .
Tooki

[Brass]

Originally posted by history1me:
Shouldn't this thread now, officially be in the troubleshoot section, aka, Imac Emac and Mac Mini forum?

I think it might be moved, per .
Tooki

heheh... trouble shooting? as in, "How do I connect my Mac Mini to my XServe RAID - the cable doesn't seem to match the socket"?

[historylme]

What, am I expected to spell correctly? NOPE, it's the lounge for god's sake.

[Mac Write]

Late this year (Rev. B) I will be getting one to replace my Beige G3 as my development web server. Apache/PHP/MySQL. FTP/SSH/AFP for admin and VNC for monitor. I will still use my MDD for my main file server though, when I do an upgrade in 2-3 years. My Beige is not working as well as I thought it would. can't even install the OS anymore. Glad I had the opportunity to get a new Mac when I did back in August/September 2003.

[Luca Rescigno]

I would just be concerned that the maximum BTO hard drive size is only 80 GB, and it uses laptop drives so the most you can possibly put in a mini is only 100 GB. And 100 GB laptop drives are really expensive. Then again, if you don't need to serve a ton of files I guess it would be okay.

[Mac Write]

80GB for be plenty for me. It's a Development server, so only for personal use, and client access. All mine would store wold be web files. Now what partition size (for dedicated OS partition. Would only need Apache/PHP/MySQL (including storing MySQL DB, since I don't know how do move them to a separate partition).

Anyone else going to buy one as a dedicated development server or testing machine?

[velodev]

I plan on officially retiring the G4 Cube to just a mantle piece and connecting my USB printer and FW800/400 Miglia Mediabank RAID 1 to it. This is what my Cube does now and I am afraid continuing to run it will eventually make it non-functional.

So, enter the $500 replacement.

[Agasthya]

It has a 4200 rpm drive. Maybe a slow webserver but definitely not anything major.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
It has a 4200 rpm drive. Maybe a slow webserver but definitely not anything major.

Where did you find that spec ??

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by Krusty:
Where did you find that spec ??

http://www.macworld.com/2005/01/news...src=mcrss-0105

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
http://www.macworld.com/2005/01/news...src=mcrss-0105

Ahhh .... thanks. Its been like a weird shell game the last coupla days. All circumstantial evidence led to the mini using a laptop hard drive, but this fact is notably absent from all official specs from Apple. Glad to finally have that cleared up.

[Mac Write]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
It has a 4200 rpm drive. Maybe a slow webserver but definitely not anything major.

Would that be enough as a Developement Web-server? at most 15 hits/second? I will be running Apache/PHP along with MySQL (which is HD heavy). Would MySQL fair ok with that? maybe 50 queries/second.

It would also suite nicely as a personal mail server as well. How would people use multiple Mini's as servers in your home? I would rather use a MDD (4 drive bays) or other tower as a file server, since they can hold TB's of data without requiring external drives sure bigger but still, compared to the Mini at 100GB Max (with current drives. I think 100GB is the max size). It could also make a great personal DNS server for a home network as well. It seems the possibilities are endless. dedicate a particular task to each mini. One for Web server, another for Mail, and one for DNS and so forth.

What is everyone going to use their mini(s) for? I don't think they would make good beta machines though (testing beta software or OS's) due to the limit graphics (no CoreImage or CoreVideo, which means no full testing of applications and the OS) or machine for doing reviews of software/hardwae for articles (I would want the low end DP G5).

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Mac Write:
Would that be enough as a Developement Web-server? at most 15 hits/second? I will be running Apache/PHP along with MySQL (which is HD heavy). Would MySQL fair ok with that? maybe 50 queries/second.

It would also suite nicely as a personal mail server as well. How would people use multiple Mini's as servers in your home? I would rather use a MDD (4 drive bays) or other tower as a file server, since they can hold TB's of data without requiring external drives sure bigger but still, compared to the Mini at 100GB Max (with current drives. I think 100GB is the max size). It could also make a great personal DNS server for a home network as well. It seems the possibilities are endless. dedicate a particular task to each mini. One for Web server, another for Mail, and one for DNS and so forth.

What is everyone going to use their mini(s) for? I don't think they would make good beta machines though (testing beta software or OS's) due to the limit graphics (no CoreImage or CoreVideo, which means no full testing of applications and the OS) or machine for doing reviews of software/hardwae for articles (I would want the low end DP G5).

It will be fine for any kind of serving that doesn't need thousands of hits a second. Basically, if you are using to to host Apple.com, slashdot, or even MacNN, you're asking too much. But for 99% of the websites out there, this thing will be fine.

[OreoCookie]

It will be plenty, like any current CPU is plenty for most servers' tasks.

It has a 2.5" notebook hd, apparently, but you can easily remedy that with an external hd. another limitation might be that you only have one ethernet interface. But for most things, it'll be plenty. I wouldn't worry about overheating, too.

So for home/soho/small office use, it would be fine.

Ditto for the AMP (Apache MySQL PHP) projects you had in mind. The slowest part of the whole equation will probably be your internet connection, anyway.

Some people modded an original iMac to be a small server and the CPU is a lot slower. Depending on your database, you might put in more memory �_databases are usually sensitive to that.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Mac Write:
...

What is everyone going to use their mini(s) for? I don't think they would make good beta machines though (testing beta software or OS's) due to the limit graphics (no CoreImage or CoreVideo, which means no full testing of applications and the OS) or machine for doing reviews of software/hardwae for articles (I would want the low end DP G5).

The majority of testing is done on this kind of machines, everything from CRT iMacs, iBooks, iMac G4s, older PowerBoosk, etc. Unless, you need specific hardware for a test.

And because OS X gets faster with each release, you can do easy stuff even on a 500 MHz machine. The speed is fully acceptable on an iBook G4 with 1 GHz, granted that you have enough RAM.

Your suggestion that tasks like DNS should be spread across several (!) Mac minis is a bit strange: a simple Pentium 133 MHz suffices if you use Unix to serve as a firewall, router and DNS as well as DHCP server. One Mac mini is plenty for all that.

Just to give you some idea: with Linux, you'll have a 30 % CPU load if you saturate 100 MBit ethernet on a P3 450 MHz (!), so 1.33 GHz will really be enough for any server task mentioned here.

[Mac Write]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
The majority of testing is done on this kind of machines, everything from CRT iMacs, iBooks, iMac G4s, older PowerBoosk, etc. Unless, you need specific hardware for a test.

And because OS X gets faster with each release, you can do easy stuff even on a 500 MHz machine. The speed is fully acceptable on an iBook G4 with 1 GHz, granted that you have enough RAM.

Your suggestion that tasks like DNS should be spread across several (!) Mac minis is a bit strange: a simple Pentium 133 MHz suffices if you use Unix to serve as a firewall, router and DNS as well as DHCP server. One Mac mini is plenty for all that.

Just to give you some idea: with Linux, you'll have a 30 % CPU load if you saturate 100 MBit ethernet on a P3 450 MHz (!), so 1.33 GHz will really be enough for any server task mentioned here.

I am working to get into doing software/hardware reviews for MacWrite.com and to give the software justice etc, a G5 with loads of RAM I thought would be better. Maybe when I do get one as a machine I can just trash/reinstall as needed (to keep my DP 1.25GHZ clean from as my workstation) then maybe it will work. but I think testing software on a faster HD would help with talking about preformace, but ya it maybe it will work.

As for MySQL etc. I would get it the higher end one with 512MB RAM best bang for the buck. As for separate service on each machine, by seperating tasks to different machines, if one goes down, everything doesn't go down. Also as for DHCP/router I would want to use a Mini PC with 2-3 ethernet cards (Public/private network) for being DHCP, Firewire and router (to a gigabit switches).

It is the cheapest way to have a system if performance, and using CoreImage/Video isn't important to you, to have a system you can do all your software testing on, making sure it's what you want before you risk your production workstation.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Mac Write:
Anyone else going to buy one as a dedicated development server or testing machine?

Nope. I'm gonna get two of 'em for that very same purpose.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Mac Write:
Would that be enough as a Developement Web-server? at most 15 hits/second? I will be running Apache/PHP along with MySQL (which is HD heavy). Would MySQL fair ok with that? maybe 50 queries/second.

It would also suite nicely as a personal mail server as well. How would people use multiple Mini's as servers in your home? I would rather use a MDD (4 drive bays) or other tower as a file server, since they can hold TB's of data without requiring external drives sure bigger but still, compared to the Mini at 100GB Max (with current drives. I think 100GB is the max size). It could also make a great personal DNS server for a home network as well. It seems the possibilities are endless. dedicate a particular task to each mini. One for Web server, another for Mail, and one for DNS and so forth.

What is everyone going to use their mini(s) for? I don't think they would make good beta machines though (testing beta software or OS's) due to the limit graphics (no CoreImage or CoreVideo, which means no full testing of applications and the OS) or machine for doing reviews of software/hardwae for articles (I would want the low end DP G5).

I'm going to use it to host a couple of websites I currently have. One for my boyscout troop and just a couple of friends' websites. other than that not too much else. It would work well for that. I would losve to cluster them though so when I do get a second or third I can add it to the cluster.

[starman]

Here's my take on it.

I have a G5 at home as a file server. You might think it's a little overkill, but it's a single 1.6 that I got rather cheap.

Obviously, the Mini will take up less space, but there are drawbacks.

1) No Gigabit port. Everything in the house is Gigabit that can be. Using a Mini would be a step backwards.

2) Forced to use an external case for hard drive space.

3) More wires and plug(s) if you're using external devices.

4) Slow internal hard drive.

5) No Firewire 800.

6) Using external cases for RAID could bring the total price to that of a used G4 with internal solutions.

This is NOT to say that the Mini wouldn't be a kickass personal server for small tasks, but personally I think the lack of Gigabit and FW 800 are going to keep me from buying it.

Mike

[Mac Write]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Nope. I'm gonna get two of 'em for that very same purpose.

Two? What will each Mini be used for then?

[mitchell_pgh]

My Prediction We are going to start to see a slew of crazy hacks coming from this system.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Mac Write:
Two? What will each Mini be used for then?

I'm completely uninformed about PHP/MySQL but need to learn it for an upcoming project (I'm too cheap to employ a pet geek at the moment and hey if you want something doing right, do it yourself).
Reading the back of the GoLive manual (yep, I'm a total beginner) seems to indicate that having the http server on one machine and MySQL on the other is more secure than both on the same machine. Hence getting two, to learn on a smaller "mirror" of the intended production setup.

(note: I'm probably way off base with the two machines for better security thing, but that's the way it seems to me at the moment)

Originally posted by Sherwin:

(note: I'm probably way off base with the two machines for better security thing, but that's the way it seems to me at the moment)

Well, I can think of one example that says you are right. If there is a flaw in your PHP code that grants root access throught PHP, the hacker can get root access to *everything* rather than just PHP.

[Powerbook]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
My Prediction We are going to start to see a slew of crazy hacks coming from this system.

Hahaha! Indeed. Just wait for the japanese screwdriver freaks getting the first Minis in their hands!

PB.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by starman:
Here's my take on it.

...
4)
Slow internal hard drive.

5) No Firewire 800.

6) Using external cases for RAID could bring the total price to that of a used G4 with internal solutions.

This is NOT to say that the Mini wouldn't be a kickass personal server for small tasks, but personally I think the lack of Gigabit and FW 800 are going to keep me from buying it.

Mike

The hd is plenty to saturate 100 MBit ethernet. And that is plenty for movie streaming, etc.

[Xaositect]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
Hahaha! Indeed. Just wait for the japanese screwdriver freaks getting the first Minis in their hands!

PB.

I want the Apple on top to light up. No reason, I just want it lit. I figure a LED like they put in those lit USB and Firewire cables, attached internally to the USB port ought to do it. Maybe a blue or black case, just for that personal touch, but I'll have to see how much that will entail. I might just build a sheath the right color and slide it over the case. The sheath idea also lets me embed oter images, should I choose.

Yes, it will void the warranty. (well, maybe not the sheath, but the light for sure will)

And, for the record, I am not Japanese.

[ReggieX]

I used to host a company's web and database server on a 7200, the Mini is miles beyond that.

[11011001]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
The hd is plenty to saturate 100 MBit ethernet. And that is plenty for movie streaming, etc.

Besides, unless the website is huge, it will all be cached in memory anyways.

[sambeau]

My old G3 333 made a fine webserver. Seemed fast enough for most things.
I have a Dual 800 which wouldn't break a sweat even with 100+ hits a second.
The Mac Mini is 25% faster than my Dual 800.
It would make a fine little webserver for anyone other than a major site.
Get five and you could have a redundant load-balanced cluster :-)

[sambeau]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
My Prediction We are going to start to see a slew of crazy hacks coming from this system.

I totally agree!

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Nope. I'm gonna get two of 'em for that very same purpose.

Yup, never do testing on a production machine.

[MilkmanDan]

I bought a B&W G3 from a local Mac store for $150. I then stuck 4 hard drives in it. It has firewire, USB, and 10/100 Networking. It will also run 10.3 or 10.3 server.

Save some money. Buy a B&W G3 or even an early G4. Save a lot of money.

[velodev]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
My Prediction We are going to start to see a slew of crazy hacks coming from this system.

That's my prediction entirely.

[waffffffle]

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
I bought a B&W G3 from a local Mac store for $150. I then stuck 4 hard drives in it. It has firewire, USB, and 10/100 Networking. It will also run 10.3 or 10.3 server.

Save some money. Buy a B&W G3 or even an early G4. Save a lot of money.

Exactly, and you can easily add gigabit as well. I'm thinking about doing that.