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icruise · Nov 5, 2007, 04:11 AM

I added a poll to this thread to gauge how many people have what format. I believe I accidentally made multiple selections possible, but since there's a "both" category, obviously you should only choose one item.

jokell82 · 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

$399.99? What model HD DVD player? It's impossible to tell from that pixelated picture.

That's the A30.

shabbasuraj · Nov 5, 2007, 01:22 PM

I so want Toshiba to win... I think.......?

powerbook867 · Nov 5, 2007, 01:45 PM

I don't really care who wins...I just want to watch my favorite movies in HD goodness...

If Sony releases a player for 199 w/ 9 movies, I'd probably buy one of those as well...I still have one HDMI connection all alone and looking for some company!

Eug · Nov 5, 2007, 05:25 PM

Warner reiterates its neutrality.

Originally Posted by Jim Noonan, SVP, Strategic Promotion & Communication, Warner Home Entertainment Group

I can tell you that Warner's position has not changed, and I know that Dan did not intend to suggest that wasn't the case. We support both formats and we have made no decision to alter that policy, nor are there any such announcements coming, or being planned.

olePigeon · Nov 5, 2007, 05:28 PM

New poll option: Neither.

Also, if it's multiple selection option, why bother with the "both" option?

Dakarʒ · Nov 5, 2007, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Also, if it's multiple selection option, why bother with the "both" option?

believe I accidentally made multiple selections possible, but since there's a "both" category, obviously you should only choose one item.

Reading is your friend.

icruise · 06:17 PM

Believe me, I tried changing from multiple to single choice. It won't let me. I can add "neither" though.

voodoo · Nov 5, 2007, 06:44 PM

I would like to second the suggestion of adding a "neither" option.

At the same time the poll could be fixed from being a multiple choice to single choice.

V

analogue SPRINKLES · Nov 5, 2007, 09:59 PM

Format War: Every $99 HD DVD Player Losing $500?

Wow. they must be losing more than a PS3.

voodoo · Nov 5, 2007, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Format War: Every $99 HD DVD Player Losing $500?

Wow. they must be losing more than a PS3.

PS3 is losing $300 per unit, so no. They're bleeding even more.

V

analogue SPRINKLES · Nov 5, 2007, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by voodoo

PS3 is losing $300 per unit, so no. They're bleeding even more.

V

Right but they make money from game sales not just movies.

jokell82 · Nov 5, 2007, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Right but they make money from game sales not just movies.

There are games for the PS3?

jokell82 · Nov 5, 2007, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Format War: Every $99 HD DVD Player Losing $500?

Wow. they must be losing more than a PS3.

Woah woah woah. So they're saying that since the HD-A1 cost $674 in parts when it was released that Toshiba is losing $500 for every HD-A2 sold for $99 now? If that isn't faulty logic I'm not sure what is.

voodoo · Nov 5, 2007, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Right but they make money from game sales not just movies.

OK yes. Let's pretend I didn't know that.

When I wrote 'they', I was obviously referring to Toshiba.

V

icruise · Nov 5, 2007, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by voodoo

OK yes. Let's pretend I didn't know that.

When I wrote 'they', I was obviously referring to Toshiba.

V

Huh? If that were the case, why would you have said:

PS3 is losing $300 per unit, so no. They're bleeding even more.

Eug Wanker · 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Format War: Every $99 HD DVD Player Losing $500?

Wow. they must be losing more than a PS3.

That's got to be dumbest article I've ever read about the format war, and I've read some really, really bad ones. You should be embarrassed you even posted that, as it seems you didn't post it in jest.

There have been two articles/interviews I've read/heard lately from insiders that are actually half decent:

1) Bill Sheppard, Director, Blu-ray Disc Association, & Chief Digital Media Officer, Sun Microsystems

2) Kevin Collins, Director, Microsoft Consumer Media Technology Group

voodoo · Nov 6, 2007, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by icruise

Huh? If that were the case, why would you have said:

Because he was talking about toshiba. PS3 is not a 'they'. It's an 'it.

V

icruise · Nov 6, 2007, 03:52 AM

Yes, I understand that. I just found your comment to be confusingly worded.

goMac · Nov 6, 2007, 04:13 AM

I'm not sure the PS3 is really going to matter much longer. As has been shown over the last week, the format war is really moving into the standalones.

Dakarʒ · Nov 6, 2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

There are games for the PS3?

Too funny not to quote.

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm not sure the PS3 is really going to matter much longer. As has been shown over the last week, the format war is really moving into the standalones.

Well, one side is moving more standalones, at least.

pman68 · Nov 6, 2007, 09:35 AM

Where can one get the latest numbers?

Eug · Nov 6, 2007, 10:43 AM

Take it for what it's worth, but according to MS, NPD says the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on has outsold all standalone Blu-ray players combined by a significant margin.

Also, if you look at the standalone market and exclude Xbox 360 add-ons, HD DVD is ahead of Blu-ray there too, with Toshiba holding 55% of standalone player market share as of September, and all Blu-ray standalone players combined holding 42%. (The remaining 3% were dual-format players.) Since the date is early September, it doesn't any recent HD DVD deals such as the Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Crutchfield, and CC deals recently.

starman · Nov 6, 2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm not sure the PS3 is really going to matter much longer. As has been shown over the last week, the format war is really moving into the standalones.

Right. You're the person we want to hear talk about the PS3

Kevin · Nov 6, 2007, 11:16 AM

Well he has been a bit more realistic than most of the Sony fanboys in here.

Eug · Nov 6, 2007, 12:14 PM

Speaking of fanboys:

Spent 3 hours at Wal-Mart today. I stoped 11 out of 12 people from getting HD-DVD players. I will be spending a lot of time down thier the rest of this year. It is the best I can do to help the less tech savy not get screwed on this half-step format. One couple I talked too went straight over to the games section and picked up a 40GB PS3. The wife said about HD-DVD "We have purchased Toshiba products for over 10 years and we have never been disipointed in them. I can not believe that they would sell a product that is not of the upmost quality." Two other's went ahead and picked up the 80GB which really shocked me , because that is a lot more than they came in expecting to spend. One of these people was an older man about mid 50's he said "It would really be nice if they posted the differances between these products more. Seeing 30 of those GB things compared to 50 really gives you more of a idea about these products than price and names." The only one I could not stop from buying it was this 27 year old guy that said he already had the 360 HD-DVD drive for his 360 in the living room, and he wanted to get this one for his bedroom.

Overall I think the day went well. I was surprised to see so much traffic towards HDM. It seems this year will see a lot of sales in this spectrum of the market. I am going to do my best to try and make sure that these Walmart shoppers in my area make an informed decision before purchaseing into HDM. Hopefully it will help Blu win and put us on track to a medium that will last for a solid 15 to 20 years.

I have also got my wife doing the same thing at the Walmart in the next city over. If anyone else has time to dedicate to helping the consumers find their way I encourage it. I have seen plenty of threads of illigal things like unplugging HD-DVD and cases. This is a perfectly legal way to support Blu-ray, and it is probably the most effective. If you do this at all this year I would suggest Walmarts 99 HD-DVD day and black friday at any store. It is going way out of our way to do this, but both me and my wife know that in 5 years from now when we are watching movies on 200GB BD's it will all be worth it.

Now, this could all be bull, cuz the guy only has 2 posts, but I love some of the responses:

Good work man, hats off to you

-----

sounds similar to something i would do and welcome to the forum

-----

Too bad so many people attack you for informing people. Who cares what the liars on other boards think. What
really pisses them off is knowing your right. Kudos. Education is the last thing they want to see.

-----

Do you really care what a bunch of people who lurk on a messageboard think. Having surveyed the HD market in its entirety (I jest), I really could care what the AVS crowd thinks and I don't think a reasonable person can justify doing so. If AVS mocks us, let them do so.

With this said, I do have a bias and think that the majority of HD-DVD purchasers fall into the following categories:

(1) Teenage pock-marked trolls (360 add-on users);

(2) People who look for cheap goods rather than good value (your average A-2 guy who just needs "good enough" - nothing wrong with these guys); and

(3) Finally, libertarian conspiracy theorists who will always go against the grain. They do so more out of being isolated as a unique individual than conviction or reason. This is the AVS crowd. Geriatric bed-shitters that recall the Beta/VHS format war like it was yesterday, claim that Sony is out to control their minds and cite DRM, and argue that porn is a decisive factor (as such individuals likely go to backalley adult stores instead of pirating like any individual without greybeard at the time the Internet went P2P).

-----

Dakarʒ · Nov 6, 2007, 12:16 PM

Assuming this is true, I don't know what's sadder, the fact that he did this, or that it worked 11 out of 12 times (or at all, really).

analogue SPRINKLES · Nov 6, 2007, 12:18 PM

Here is a really good deal.

40 gig PS3 for $399 which includes:

Ratchet and Clank (the best game for PS3 yet)
6 foot HDMI cable
5 BR movies
Spiderman 3

Home & Home Office: PS3 Playstation 3 40GB Console Bundle with Spiderman 3 Movie, Ratchet and Clank TOD and HDMI Cable

Eug · Nov 6, 2007, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Here is a really good deal.

40 gig PS3 for $399 which includes:

Ratchet and Clank (the best game for PS3 yet)
6 foot HDMI cable
5 BR movies
Spiderman 3

Home & Home Office: PS3 Playstation 3 40GB Console Bundle with Spiderman 3 Movie, Ratchet and Clank TOD and HDMI Cable

Heh. Still no remote (and no IR support either).

pman68 · Nov 6, 2007, 01:04 PM

Anymore confirmation on how many A2's were sold this past week? There was a 40,000 number people were quoting, but not sure how accurate this is.

Eug · Nov 6, 2007, 01:15 PM

Two different people claiming to have Toshiba (low level) contacts were both told 40000 for Wal-Mart. One other person claims 5000 for Best Buy.

So that would make it about 50000 units combined over a few days for a few of the big US retailers, but those numbers should be considered unsubstantiated rumours for now.

Kenneth · Nov 6, 2007, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Heh. Still no remote (and no IR support either).

Besides you want to use your own universal remote (possible?), the $20 PS3 bluetooth remote is just fine.

I think the 40GB PS3 is a good buy although I need the card reader, which my 60GB model has it. However, I feel like $299 to $349 would be nice.

analogue SPRINKLES · Nov 6, 2007, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Heh. Still no remote (and no IR support either).

It is pretty sad if anyone holds out on that because of IR which for the 1000th time YOU CAN ADD!

starman · Nov 6, 2007, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well he has been a bit more realistic than most of the Sony fanboys in here.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!

What?

Eug · Nov 6, 2007, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kenneth

Besides you want to use your own universal remote (possible?), the $20 PS3 bluetooth remote is just fine.

Yes, I use Logitech Harmony IR remotes exclusively.

I think the 40GB PS3 is a good buy although I need the card reader, which my 60GB model has it. However, I feel like $299 to $349 would be nice.

I think the 40 GB PS3 is a good buy... for a combination game console and Blu-ray player. However, as a hi-def movie player alone, the price sucks.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

It is pretty sad if anyone holds out on that because of IR which for the 1000th time YOU CAN ADD!

Not really, unless you like hacks that don't completely work. Not my idea of a good centrepiece for a home theatre system.

The PS3IRX1 and its brethren can't actually turn the PS3 on or off, for example. What's the point of a remote that can't turn on the machine?!?

icruise · Nov 6, 2007, 01:59 PM

I think most people would be more than satisfied with the Bluetooth remote. If you absolutely must use an IR remote, it is possible as I have said in the past. If you want to turn the machine on remotely you can do it with the game controller quite easily. It's slightly clunky, but I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as people have been making of it.

sek929 · Nov 6, 2007, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Ratchet and Clank (the best game for PS3 yet)

Wow, it's a wonder the PS3 isn't selling well.

Eug · Nov 6, 2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

It's slightly clunky

It's very clunky.

BTW, I think this just illustrates Sony's problem. Their main push for Blu-ray is a game machine. OK fine, but then they clunkify the game machine's functionality as a Blu-ray device.

So what about standalones? Oops, the cheapest one costs the same, which means it's grossly overpriced for a basic hi-def player... just like the PS3.

P.S. Even though I have one, I would never recommend the Xbox 360 HD DVD for anyone who didn't want a game console. It is also clunky (although it actually has full IR support), and it's way too expensive for a basic hi-def player.

exca1ibur · Nov 6, 2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I think most people would be more than satisfied with the Bluetooth remote. If you absolutely must use an IR remote, it is possible as I have said in the past. If you want to turn the machine on remotely you can do it with the game controller quite easily. It's slightly clunky, but I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as people have been making of it.

Or you can get your lazy ass off the sofa for free.

goMac · Nov 6, 2007, 02:59 PM

I wouldn't mind the Bluetooth remote as much (heck, it's quite an upgrade over IR), if it was actually an open standard that people (like Logitech) could make remotes for, and could be implemented on other devices such as the Wii.

exca1ibur · Nov 6, 2007, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I wouldn't mind the Bluetooth remote as much (heck, it's quite an upgrade over IR), if it was actually an open standard that people (like Logitech) could make remotes for, and could be implemented on other devices such as the Wii.

I don't see why it wouldn't be open. It should be the same as any third party making a controller.

Kenneth · Nov 6, 2007, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

It's very clunky.

BTW, I think this just illustrates Sony's problem. Their main push for Blu-ray is a game machine. OK fine, but then they clunkify the game machine's functionality as a Blu-ray device.

So what about standalones? Oops, the cheapest one costs the same, which means it's grossly overpriced for a basic hi-def player... just like the PS3.

P.S. Even though I have one, I would never recommend the Xbox 360 HD DVD for anyone who didn't want a game console. It is also clunky (although it actually has full IR support), and it's way too expensive for a basic hi-def player.

I thought people want multi-purpose hardware these days. Some said a standalone device will do a better job, but I believe most people will gear more towards 'I want a device to do this and do that'.

I'm not a gamer to begin with, but the PS3 (or Xbox 360) gives me a chance to explore more about gaming other than just movie playback.

icruise · Nov 6, 2007, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I wouldn't mind the Bluetooth remote as much (heck, it's quite an upgrade over IR), if it was actually an open standard that people (like Logitech) could make remotes for, and could be implemented on other devices such as the Wii.

It is an open standard as far as I know. The problem is that people want to use the same remote as they use for all their other home theater equipment, and that all uses IR.

goMac · Nov 6, 2007, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

It is an open standard as far as I know. The problem is that people want to use the same remote as they use for all their other home theater equipment, and that all uses IR.

Which then begs the question as to why Sony couldn't have included an IR port for transitional purposes.

(I'm not sure it's an open standard. At the very least, I would bet that it's PS3 specific.)

jokell82 · Nov 6, 2007, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Speaking of fanboys:
...

Just proves to me that Blu-Ray.com is nothing but idiotic fanboys.

pooka · Nov 6, 2007, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

It is an open standard as far as I know. The problem is that people want to use the same remote as they use for all their other home theater equipment, and that all uses IR.

I don't see why Sony doesn't recognize this problem as well. Does their Bravia line of LCDs come with a bluetooth remote? Mine sure didn't. Having just spent $150 on a remote that controls everything in my entertainment center (mac mini & xbox included) I don't see why some find it puzzling that peeps are irritated with the PS3 lack of IR.

icruise · Nov 6, 2007, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Which then begs the question as to why Sony couldn't have included an IR port for transitional purposes.

(I'm not sure it's an open standard. At the very least, I would bet that it's PS3 specific.)

Of course it's PS3-specific, but the point is that other manufacturers are free to make remotes if they want to. In fact, it should be perfectly possible to make a comination IR/Bluetooth remote that would solve all of these problems. Maybe the demand just isn't there. I agree that it's kind of an odd choice for Sony to have made, and I chalk it up to the fact the Sony really isn't the monolithic organization people make it out to be. Sometime the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

Kevin · Nov 6, 2007, 03:50 PM

How many accounts do you think will be created to alter the voting in this thread?

Maybe that would be a better topic.

This is getting worse than the MS vs Apple thing. At least those are interesting.

jokell82 · Nov 6, 2007, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Of course it's PS3-specific, but the point is that other manufacturers are free to make remotes if they want to. In fact, it should be perfectly possible to make a comination IR/Bluetooth remote that would solve all of these problems. Maybe the demand just isn't there. I agree that it's kind of an odd choice for Sony to have made, and I chalk it up to the fact the Sony really isn't the monolithic organization people make it out to be. Sometime the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

My bet is that they just wanted to sell more Playstation Remotes. There really is no other explanation that makes sense.

jokell82 · Nov 6, 2007, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

How many accounts do you think will be created to alter the voting in this thread?

Maybe that would be a better topic.

This is getting worse than the MS vs Apple thing. At least those are interesting.

I would hope that people don't care THAT much. That would just be sad.