[Xyphoid Process]

Looking at the Mini, it reminded me of the good old days of the Toaster Macs (+, SE etc...) where you could buy ZFP (zero footprint) hard drives that were the same LxW as the Mac. The idea was that you could place it under the Mac as a stand.

This got me thinking - what about a box for the Mac Mini that you could stack over/under the Mini? It would be pretty trivial to design something with a USB2 connection (usb would be more useful than FW). The box could feature lots of items:

- connection for an internally-mounted laptop/full-size HD
- front/rear USB2 hub
- front-mounted digital/analog audio in-out
- cf/sd/etc... card readers
- 5.25" optical drive
- wifi
- bluetooth
- etc...

This would bump up the total system price a bit, but could make for an upgrade path down the road. Does anyone know if vendors are planning to come up with something along these lines?

[ajprice]

There was a similar kind of thing for the G3 iMac, a kind of dock base with extra ports, I think it worked as a tilt and swivel monitor stand for it too.

Found it, the iDOCK. It gives 3 extra USB ports, serial and parallel ports ( ) and is a swivel stand.

http://www.welovemacs.com/idock.html

[tooki]

You couldn't fit a full-size optical drive in the footprint of the Mac mini.

Why even bother with USB-based WiFi? The darned thing already accepts an AirPort Extreme card.

Card readers, audio, hub, after-market Bluetooth? Sounds good to me!

tooki

[banninated68]

External video card that isn't outdated?

I will always hope, and always be disapointed.

>sigh<

I hate Jobs. if he'd only realize that large number of people that would like to play games on a mac... but don't want a tower....

[Amorya]

Originally posted by banninated68:
External video card that isn't outdated?

I will always hope, and always be disapointed.

>sigh<

I hate Jobs. if he'd only realize that large number of people that would like to play games on a mac... but don't want a tower....

You can't have it both ways! If you want to play games, you need a kickass system. And such a system wants the latest video card... complete with power supply killing wattage draw, and multiple fans and plenty of heat.

If you want a small system, how on earth can you reasonably expect to fit in such a card? It doesn't happen in the PC world - gamers have towers. What magic tech do we have to make that any different?


Amorya

[turtle777]

Originally posted by banninated68:
External video card that isn't outdated?

I will always hope, and always be disapointed.

I hate Jobs. if he'd only realize that large number of people that would like to play games on a mac... but don't want a tower....

*sigh*

There we go AGAIN.
C'mon Cash, start yelling, kickin' and screaming !

-t

[Xyphoid Process]

Originally posted by tooki:
You couldn't fit a full-size optical drive in the footprint of the Mac mini.

Why even bother with USB-based WiFi? The darned thing already accepts an AirPort Extreme card.

Card readers, audio, hub, after-market Bluetooth? Sounds good to me!

tooki

Except for the fact that the Mini itself has a full-width optical drive (height might be another matter). Prob. make more sense to include a 3.5" hd mount.

[banninated68]

Originally posted by Amorya:
You can't have it both ways! If you want to play games, you need a kickass system. And such a system wants the latest video card... complete with power supply killing wattage draw, and multiple fans and plenty of heat.

If you want a small system, how on earth can you reasonably expect to fit in such a card? It doesn't happen in the PC world - gamers have towers. What magic tech do we have to make that any different?


Amorya

Yes, you can have it both way. My friend built a 2.4 ghz p4 in a tiny PC case hte size of a cube. It takes standard hard drives, and one standard video card, your choice. Desktop memory, and only one hard drive slot avaiable.

I don't necessarily need something as small as hte iMac Mini, I'd take something twice as big if it had a PCI slot. But it doesn't. I don't want a huge ****ing tower. I just want:

1. Decent processor (not the best, but decent)
2. PCI slot for latest vid card
3. Standard hd
4. Standard ram
5. Not a tower. They're too noisy and huge and ugly.

[banninated68]

There are tons of PC systems out there about the size of 2 mac mini's stuck together... they have standard HDs, Standard ram, Standard optical drives, and they have a PCI slot.

If they ran OSX I'd have one already with a phat ass video card so I could play some games.

- Ca$h

[mitchell_pgh]

Interesting idea... I could see iPod bases that let you "dock your pod". Same thing for many other devices...

[:dragonflypro:]

Combo iPod Dock, 2.5/3.5 FW HDD slot and a USB / FW Hub. You can buy them all now for less than $150 total.

Get a slick package together that sits right on top or underneath (subtle bulge out for ipod?) and market it as Super Sizing your Mac mini.

T

[tooki]

Originally posted by Xyphoid Process:
Except for the fact that the Mini itself has a full-width optical drive (height might be another matter). Prob. make more sense to include a 3.5" hd mount.

I guess you haven't worked with drive mechanisms much.

The Mac mini clearly uses a notebook drive, just like the iMac does. Yes, these do of course accept normal-size discs. But these drives aren't just thinner than desktop drives: they're smaller in EVERY dimension. A full-size desktop optical drive is not only about 1.5" tall, it's also 7-8" long. No desktop size drive would fit in a Mac mini even if nothing else had to go in the case.

tooki

[busterhide]

Well, the rumors were flying about this for a while and looks like they paned out this time. Reading the info on the apple site, looks like this is geared for all those windoz folks that are hooked on the iPod and want to go Mac but are on a Dell budget. Get ready to greet a lot of new Mac users to this forum.
I guess we will see a lot of "I'm new to the Mac where do I install the drivers for my camera?"

[Amorya]

Originally posted by banninated68:
Yes, you can have it both way. My friend built a 2.4 ghz p4 in a tiny PC case hte size of a cube. It takes standard hard drives, and one standard video card, your choice. Desktop memory, and only one hard drive slot avaiable.

D'you mean a Shuttle case (or equivalent)? Because they're bigger than a cube. As far as I know, there isn't a standard motherboard size that could fit in a cube, and definitely not in a Mac Mini.

The other point, though, you've failed to address - a gaming system is one of the most powerful needed, besides high-end 3D and the like. It requires more power than your average designer, and much more power than a home user needs. Apple make a powerful system - they call it the G5 tower. And they make it so that it appeals most to as many users of powerful systems as possible. A large computer might offend your aesthetic senses. But a small one would make people in the music industry, for example, unable to use the devices within it that they want to. I side with Apple on this one.

Amorya

[misc]

Originally posted by tooki:
Why even bother with USB-based WiFi? The darned thing already accepts an AirPort Extreme card.

I think this is a great idea. The APX card is not user installable.

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm a little upset Apple sacrificed size for normal desktop hardware. Oh well... I realize they didn't want to compete with the iMac/eMac

[Dog Like Nature]

Originally posted by misc:
I think this is a great idea. The APX card is not user installable.

True, but it is installable after-the-fact. You just need a certified Apple tech to do it.

[Link]

JUst void the damn warranty. Applecare is useless anyway.

[JMII]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Interesting idea... I could see iPod bases that let you "dock your pod". Same thing for many other devices...

I kind of surprized that it did come with an iPod dock right on the top already from Apple, but I guess the iPod mini and regular iPods have different size docks so would not really work.

[banninated68]

Originally posted by Amorya:
I side with Apple on this one.

Amorya

Do you have any idea how much $ my friends spend on PC gaming? It's a GIGANTIC market, and frankly, the G5 is totally out the price range for most gamers.... you don't NEED a g5 to play a recent game well, you need A GOOD VIDEO CARD.

The problem is that all of apple's 'CONSUMER' machines play new games like absolute ass, and the ONLY computer in their entire lineup that has the ability to put in your own video card is the G5, which, as I stated, is HUGE, expensive, and overkill. I don't need 8 drive bays and a billion watt power supply. I don't need a fancy aluminum case.

What I'd want is a G4 mac with ONE pci slot for a video card, room for ONE drive (superdrive) and the ability to use standard ram and a HD. It'd sell like hotcakes because it could be amde cheaply and lots of younger people would lust after one.

- Ca$h

[banninated68]

Why are all of you bitching and moaning about the user installable part? It's a freaking computer. Give it to me and I'll get it apart in 10 minutes, install your crap, and reassemble. It's really not at all difficult to take apart any of apple's products... Ican take apart a 1st gen iMac in like 2 minutes, powerbooks, pfft... as for the 'non user installable' ram slot on the flat panel imacs.. wtf ... I opened it up in about 8 minutes and POOF installed the ram.

Are you guys just all mechanically retarded or what?

[yikes600]

Originally posted by banninated68:
And you're an idiot because of it. Do you have any idea how much $ my friends spend on PC gaming? It's a GIGANTIC market, and frankly, the G5 is totally out the price range for most gamers.... you don't NEED a g5 to play a recent game well, you need A GOOD VIDEO CARD.

The problem is that all of apple's 'CONSUMER' machines play new games like absolute ass, and the ONLY computer in their entire lineup that has the ability to put in your own video card is the G5, which, as I stated, is HUGE, expensive, and overkill. I don't need 8 drive bays and a billion watt power supply. I don't need a fancy aluminum case.

What I'd want is a G4 mac with ONE pci slot for a video card, room for ONE drive (superdrive) and the ability to use standard ram and a HD. It'd sell like ****ing hotcakes because it could be amde cheaply and lots of younger people would lust after one.

- Ca$h

Agreed! Why is it that to get a decent video card (5200 does NOT qualify) you need a $1500 mac?

[Drakino]

Originally posted by banninated68:
What I'd want is a G4 mac with ONE pci slot for a video card, room for ONE drive (superdrive) and the ability to use standard ram and a HD. It'd sell like ****ing hotcakes because it could be amde cheaply and lots of younger people would lust after one.

With one PCI slot, your not going to get much better then what the Mac mini includes for graphics. AGP is the only solution for last or current generation graphics. Next gen will be PCI-e only. And thus far, Apple has yet to show a product with a PCI-e capable chipset.

And the product you are talking about (if kept small) was called the PowerMac G4 Cube. It sold like crap.

Even if Apple did make a micro tower basicially, it wouldn't sell well. Computer gaming is a small market compared to console gaming. Then in the computer gaming market, you have what percentage of games that actually make it to the Mac? Not a huge number there either.

Just get used to the fact that Apple will never make a cheep as in crappy system and also cheep cost wise. It goes against everything the company stand for since Jobs came back. And so far, Jobs seems to be right, as the company was doomed to failure the path it was on before he took things back over. Also just face the hard fact that if you want a computer for games as the primary use, it is not going to be a Mac.

[monkpea]

Where does a Radeon 9200 fit into the whole scheme of things?

I have an original radeon mac edition pci with 32mb from 2000... How much faster is a 9200? How does it compare to a geforce 2 and 4?

[mbryda]

Originally posted by banninated68:
Do you have any idea how much $ my friends spend on PC gaming? It's a GIGANTIC market, and frankly, the G5 is totally out the price range for most gamers....

Is it? While the market for PC gaming may be large, it's nowhere near the PS2/Xbox/whatever market. Most that play games buy the consoles after getting frustrated with the PC's.

And then there's those of us who NEVER game on our PC's... We are probably the larger majority of PC users.

[banninated68]

Originally posted by Drakino:
With one PCI slot, your not going to get much better then what the Mac mini includes for graphics. AGP is the only solution for last or current generation graphics. Next gen will be PCI-e only. And thus far, Apple has yet to show a product with a PCI-e capable chipset.

WHATEVER. I don't even keep up on current technologies anymore... know why? NONE OF MY MACS CAN PLAY GAMES NOR CAN THEY BE UPGRADED!!!!!!!

And the product you are talking about (if kept small) was called the PowerMac G4 Cube. It sold like crap.

It was also extremely over priced. The mac mini uses laptop components that ARE NOT CHEAP and it's under 500. This means they could create something a little bigger with room for ONE video card for WELL UNDER 500 DOLLARS.

Even if Apple did make a micro tower basicially, it wouldn't sell well. Computer gaming is a small market compared to console gaming. Then in the computer gaming market, you have what percentage of games that actually make it to the Mac? Not a huge number there either.

KNOW WHY!?!? BECUASE THERE ARE NOT ANY ****ING MAC USERS UNDER THE AGE OF 30 WHO HAVE THE BREAD TO BUY A GOD DAMN G5 TOWER! SO KNOW WHAT?! WE BUY OTHER APPLE PRODUCTS INSTEAD, IMACS, IBOOKS, POWERBOOKS, AND WE CAN"T PLAY THE GOD DAMN GAMES WELL ON THEM THANKS TO THE **** VIDEO CARD SO WE DON"T BUY THE GAMES AND DEVELOPERS DONT PORT THEM MORON!!!!!!!!!!

THINK! USE THAT BRAIN OF YOURS! Think of the sheer # of imacs sold vs powermacs! Think of how many macs there are out there, and what TINY percentage of them can actually play games! Now realize of that percentage, the type of person who owns the g5 tower! PROBABLY NOT A YOUNG PERSON WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN A GAME! This is why we don't GET any games, because the entire lineup sucks it up so nobody bothers purchasing games because the ONLY freakin' games today's macs can play decently are OLDER GAMES.

- Ca$h

[banninated68]

Originally posted by monkpea:
Where does a Radeon 9200 fit into the whole scheme of things?

I have an original radeon mac edition pci with 32mb from 2000... How much faster is a 9200? How does it compare to a geforce 2 and 4?

The Radeon 7500 is a better card. Check out hte specs and you'll find the 7500 can move mroe data than the 9200, despite hte 9200's higher clock speed. One step forward, 2 steps back.

[banninated68]

Originally posted by mbryda:
Is it? While the market for PC gaming may be large, it's nowhere near the PS2/Xbox/whatever market.

Hey your right. In fact, we should not have imovie, since that market is smaller than PS2/Xbox users. We should have expensive macs that can ONLY do word processing, email, and web surfing, since that's what the majority of people do. That's it. There should be no other apps or hardware available.

Most that play games buy the consoles after getting frustrated with the PC's.

Or they're annoyed with their mac's pathetic performance in a game like halo and call of duty so they don't play with them again.

And then there's those of us who NEVER game on our PC's... We are probably the larger majority of PC users.

And guess what? You're old. You're going to die out. Apple is completely ignoring the younger generation of mac users. COMPLETELY.

[turtle777]

One more thread derailed by Cash....

-t

[yikes600]

I agree with banninated once again. Games are for the consumer market, NOT the professional market, yet Apple's newest consumer models can barely run games from 2 years ago. Until Apple adds a better GPU option to the iMac/eMac/Mini the mac game market will continue to suck. I'm a student wants to play an occassional game, but CANNOT afford a $1600 G5 tower just to play Unreal 2003. I'm not saying Apple should put a Radeon 9800 in every iMac, but how about something half-decent like the 9600? If they would just add a BTO option or something, we'd actually get decent performance out of new games like WoW without being told "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN GET A PC".

[Skip Breakfast]

The Mac mini clearly uses a notebook drive, just like the iMac does

Correction. The iMac uses a 3.5" SATA drive.


And I agree about what the others have said regarding gaming, but to a limited extent. Most PCs under $600 do not have an AGP slot and have shared video.

I would be happy if Apple included the slot, but not the card. That way we can add whatever card we wanted at a later time.

Additionally, aftermarket video cards for the Mac are not a good value for the money.

Right now if you are an avid gamer and dislike consoles, you MUST get a Windows computer. Period.

[Drakino]

Originally posted by banninated68:
It was also extremely over priced. The mac mini uses laptop components that ARE NOT CHEAP and it's under 500. This means they could create something a little bigger with room for ONE video card for WELL UNDER 500 DOLLARS.

Laptop components are much cheeper then several custom parts that the Cube had. Lets see:

PCI to AGP weird riser board for the graphics card
PPM for the processor only usable in the Cube
Massive metal heatsink that has to be carefully machined
Cube core case with tons of assembly steps for manufacturing
Seperate ethernet module on the mainboard custom to the Cube
Specific logic board for the cube
Acrylic case for the core to fit in, including more metalwork there too

Where as the mini only has this for propritary components:
One simple bottom of the case
one simple snap on top for the case. No screws, no assembly beyond plopping it down
one logic board with all the components
One riser board for the hard drive and slot load drive

The laptop components are industry standard and Apple simply has to buy the drives. They don't have to contract out nearly as much custom work on the Mini, and assembly costs are much lower. Odds are, the logic boards are just a hair away from the iBook or 12 inch Powerbook designs, thus they could be made on the same manufacturing line with very little retooling needed.

I won't bother responding to the rest as it has no huge relevance on the rest of the posters to this thread. Oh, except for quotes off the MWSF show floor seem to stick to a 2.5 inch drive in the Mini. I don't think that one will be put to bed until someone gets one and opens it, or the service manals come out.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by banninated68:
Why are all of you bitching and moaning about the user installable part?

Are you guys just all mechanically retarded or what?

Installing non-user installable parts invalidates the warranty. You're the retard.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
Installing non-user installable parts invalidates the warranty. You're the retard.

No.

It has become known that you CAN change the RAM without voiding the warranty, as long as you don't cause any damage to the Mac mini
Apple just does not recommend it doing it yourself.

-t

[osxisfun]

[Simon]

So, now that we know we can put in the 1GB DIMM ourselves w/o having to pay Apple an insane $425 - how do we do it? Are their disassembly guides already floating around? Haven't found any. Seeing all those clamps around the bottom of the mini's case, I'm wondering if Apple's service technicians will get a nice little tool that helps to open the box. And if so, how do we get that tool? Or, better, what do we use instead?

[Luca Rescigno]

Well, you can bring in your own RAM that you purchased separately in to an Apple store and have them install it for you. But that still carries a price of $40 or something. I wonder if bringing in your own 5400 RPM hard drive and Airport Extreme card as well would cost the same to install? I know a lot of places have a certain minimum service charge, but I don't know how much Apple would charge to replace multiple components vs. only RAM. Probably a lot, seeing as how it's Apple we're talking about .

I predict it'll be less than a week from when the Mac mini starts actually shipping to when someone posts instructions for how to take it apart and upgrade the internal components yourself, without voiding the warranty.

[velodev]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:


I predict it'll be less than a week from when the Mac mini starts actually shipping to when someone posts instructions for how to take it apart and upgrade the internal components yourself, without voiding the warranty.

You'll be off by 6 days... I hope to receive mine on Day 1. Then plan on taking it apart and detailing it on my forum.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by velodev:
You'll be off by 6 days... I hope to receive mine on Day 1. Then plan on taking it apart and detailing it on my forum.

coolness. can't wait.

[B_2]

If you plug a 23" display into the Mini do you end up with having 2 external power bricks?

Or can the Display plug into the Mini power brick?

Thanks

[kenjayz]

Originally posted by velodev:
You'll be off by 6 days... I hope to receive mine on Day 1. Then plan on taking it apart and detailing it on my forum.

I checked out your forum - it will be very nice when it becomes populated.

I noticed that you have some pictures up.

FYI: The power brick which is seen next to the mini is for the Apple LCD display - not for the mini.

ATi had a mini at their booth [Macworld], and I could see the mini power brick there. It is white [of course] and it is about 2" wide - 1-1/2" high - and 6" long.

Good luck w/ your new forum!

[zerock]

well i think the mac mini was meant yeah for the pc folk, who would like to have a mac too, and a pc next to it, also.

[osxisfun]

I'm looking forward to the first hack that hooks up a 9in LCD to a mini so it looks like a big gameboy...(but still works if you plug it in...)

[velodev]

Originally posted by kenjayz:

I noticed that you have some pictures up.

FYI: The power brick which is seen next to the mini is for the Apple LCD display - not for the mini.

Good luck w/ your new forum!

Yep, some people got really confused with the Cinema display power supply and the mini power supply. You had to trace the wires with your eyes/fingers to figure it out. It's still amazingly tiny compared to my G4 Cube power supply which I can't mount under my desk and has to sit on top.

Thank you.

[all2ofme]

I think tooki meant the optical drive, though. You're both right in this case

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
Correction. The iMac uses a 3.5" SATA drive.

[velodev]

Originally posted by B_2:
If you plug a 23" display into the Mini do you end up with having 2 external power bricks?

Or can the Display plug into the Mini power brick?

Thanks

Two external power supplies. I have pictures if that will help:

Pics of Cinema and mini

[Kitschy]

I'm thinking someone can make a lot of money off of something like this for the Mac mini:



Imagine: You have your monitor, keyboard, mouse and whatever else plugged into the Mac mini dock at work. At home, you have the monitor, keyboard and mouse plugged in to another dock as well. You take your 2.9 pound Mac mini back and forth without having to unplug each individual cord. Just plug and play at work...then plug and play at home. If you had two separate "locations" set up in OS X, it would even feel like a different computer.

[osxisfun]

bookenz and others no doubt are thinking the same thing you are... i think this will be a very successful peripheral..

[Simon]

That's a nice idea. Basically it caters to those that like the portability of a PowerBook, but don't need to work while traveling. The PowerBooks are too expensive and the iMac is too big to carry around. So you get a mini and a dock like this and you're set. But, there is as always a catch. BookEndz's docks (which are hardly more than a piece of plastic with some cheap wires and standard ports) are very expensive. They have to become a lot less expensive if Mac mini buyers are supposed to buy them - especially, since mini users might want to buy two of them.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Simon:
So, now that we know we can put in the 1GB DIMM ourselves w/o having to pay Apple an insane $425 - how do we do it? Are their disassembly guides already floating around? Haven't found any. Seeing all those clamps around the bottom of the mini's case, I'm wondering if Apple's service technicians will get a nice little tool that helps to open the box. And if so, how do we get that tool? Or, better, what do we use instead?

Well Eug in posted in one of the other Mac mini htreads found a site where someone demonstrates how to take apart a mini. Looks pretty simple. http://www.smashsworld.com/2005/01/t...ini-how-to.php