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mac freak · Jun 6, 2005, 05:21 PM

Anyone know the full specs of Apple's $999 Intel machine?

Randman · Jun 6, 2005, 05:25 PM

WTF are you talking about? Come back in a year.

turtle777 · Jun 6, 2005, 05:26 PM

Only that you have to return it to Apple end of 2006.

-t

sideus · Jun 6, 2005, 05:27 PM

He means the developer machine.

Randman · Jun 6, 2005, 05:28 PM

Ahh. So.

turtle777 · Jun 6, 2005, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

WTF are you talking about? Come back in a year.

He is talking about the Developer machine

Should have paid attention !

-t

edit: well, should have refreshed the thread before posting...

mitchell_pgh · Jun 6, 2005, 05:41 PM

I'm guessing a 3.6GHz P4.

Superchicken · Jun 6, 2005, 05:42 PM

You have to return it? Why the heck would they expect you to return it?

mac freak · Jun 6, 2005, 05:44 PM

We know it has a 3.64 GHz Pentium 4, but we don't know anything else -- RAM, GPU, dual-core or not, HD, PCI Express (could have it!), etc.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 6, 2005, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

You have to return it? Why the heck would they expect you to return it?

Because they don't want a version of OS X running around that could be installed on Dell/HP computers. I'm sure Apple isn't going to freak out about it, but at the same time, you are violating the software agreement if you do anything with it after you have agreed to return it.

Ghoser777 · Jun 6, 2005, 06:04 PM

Well that's lame-o. Why can't we just keep the box? What are they going to do with the hardware, refurbish it? Doesn't sound like its worth my $1000.

:dragonflypro: · Jun 6, 2005, 06:07 PM

These boxes are, in a weird sorta way, like the G5s MS is issuing for the Xbox 360.

No where near final design, workable for development.

You bet Apple with Intel boxes will utilize at least a proprietary chipset and will not in anyway be like the current Wintel boxes.

Don't count on the socket even being compatible.

T

Zimmerman · Jun 6, 2005, 06:07 PM

Well, DUH. It's for DEVELOPERS. Not end users, ya dummy. $1000 business expense is nothing for a biggish software developer.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 6, 2005, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Well that's lame-o. Why can't we just keep the box? What are they going to do with the hardware, refurbish it? Doesn't sound like its worth my $1000.

Good thing you aren't a developer!

This is for the people that make their livleyhood writing code. Any smaller shop should be able to spend $1000. I'm sure there is also an educational edition out there.

RonnieoftheRose · Jun 6, 2005, 06:17 PM

My guess: 3.6Ghz, 512 RAM, 250GB SATA, ATI 9600.

JoshuaZ · Jun 6, 2005, 06:18 PM

It would be interesting to know the specs. Though I'm very interested to see whats going to happen with the mini this summer. I can already imagine a TiVo like mini for home entertainment. It appears if Apple is trying real hard to take over the consumer entertainment sector.

Ghoser777 · Jun 6, 2005, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Good thing you aren't a developer!

This is for the people that make their livleyhood writing code. Any smaller shop should be able to spend $1000. I'm sure there is also an educational edition out there.

I am a developer... but I don't do it for my livelihood, so this investment won't be worth it, especially because I get to pay $999 to rent a machine.

Partisan01 · Jun 6, 2005, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Well that's lame-o. Why can't we just keep the box? What are they going to do with the hardware, refurbish it? Doesn't sound like its worth my $1000.

I'm guessing you've never done demos like this before. Where I work we get this all the time, a vendor sends us a product we write our code against it and when we're done we sent the device back. Most of the time the product is worth thousands of dollars, but it's never a big deal. If you don't send the device back within a specified time limit they'll bill you and call it end of story. Since companies don't want to be saddled with hardware they no longer have a use for it gets sent back without a problem.

I'm guessing for Apple the $999 is a barrier to entry. They want to price it so everyone and their brother won't buy one hoping they'll get the latest and greatest. Since you have to return it the box only makes sense from a business perspective.

Spliffdaddy · Jun 6, 2005, 06:33 PM

The 'developer machine' is a virtual clone of one of the new ASUS retail motherboards. I can't say which one. It utilizes darn near all the latest chipset features - along with an Apple proprietary boot ROM. Windows (and other OSes) will, in fact, run on the platform - but the MacOS will not run on any x86 platform without the proprietary boot ROM.

you're welcome.

olePigeon · Jun 6, 2005, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The 'developer machine' is a virtual clone of one of the new ASUS retail motherboards. I can't say which one. It utilizes darn near all the latest chipset features - along with an Apple proprietary boot ROM. Windows (and other OSes) will, in fact, run on the platform - but the MacOS will not run on any x86 platform without the proprietary boot ROM.

you're welcome.

You can install Windows out-of-the-box onto it?! I thought Windows needed BIOS, or is BIOS only for booting the hardware?

Link · Jun 6, 2005, 08:22 PM

The Intel Mac board does use BIOS, it does not use Openfirmware.

Zimphire · Jun 6, 2005, 08:25 PM

If this just runs on ANY PC, then it WILL BE leaked, and PC users will know what it feels like to use OS X first hand.

And wont be able to look back.

Spliffdaddy · 08:43 PM

BIOS (binary input/output system) stores information about the motherboard hardware - like a mini OS. The state of the motherboard hardware features can be accessed/changed by the 'real' OS. After booting, there is no need for the BIOS.

The Apple proprietary boot ROM is an additional 'layer' that translates the BIOS information for the Mac OS. Many manufacturers include a 'boot ROM' - Compaq, for one. Usually, it's provided for feature setup and troubleshooting etc. outside of the OS - in case the OS won't boot properly.

The Mac OS requires the Mac boot ROM in order to boot - a standard BIOS isn't enough.

The Mac's boot ROM is proprietary - and cannot be legally duplicated. Which is to say, it CAN be copied - but cannot be distributed, sold, etc. I'm betting that Apple chooses to incorporate a unique identifying number into each boot ROM - linking it to the already-present unique identifying number included in every Intel CPU. In other words, every Mac will need to have the same CPU that shipped with the motherboard's boot ROM - else the Mac OS cannot be loaded.

sideus · Jun 6, 2005, 08:37 PM

Anyone have the OS X Intel torrent?

Spliffdaddy · Jun 6, 2005, 08:55 PM

The only thing that will change for Mac users is their ability to use the newest, best hardware - at the same time as peecee users.

Immediate hardware availability - assuming Apple can release drivers for it. Which they should be able to do.

Ghoser777 · Jun 6, 2005, 09:08 PM

So is this a $999 deposit or $999 rental? Just curious.

Kenneth · Jun 6, 2005, 09:17 PM

You need to be an existing ADC member (not Online or Student) too.

blackbird_1.0 · Jun 6, 2005, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

If this just runs on ANY PC, then it WILL BE leaked, and PC users will know what it feels like to use OS X first hand.

And wont be able to look back.

blackbird_1.0 · Jun 6, 2005, 09:21 PM

14th pic down on this page, after the photoshop demo pic:

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...spx?i=2438&p=3

Cadaver · Jun 6, 2005, 09:33 PM

Wonder if the developer system will ship in a G5-style case...?

Zimphire · Jun 6, 2005, 09:38 PM

I believe so.

sideus · Jun 6, 2005, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

Wonder if the developer system will ship in a G5-style case...?

TheSteve said it was.

Wiskedjak · Jun 6, 2005, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

If this just runs on ANY PC, then it WILL BE leaked, and PC users will know what it feels like to use OS X first hand.

And wont be able to look back.

Yes, but Apple makes most of it's money off hardware (Apple's weak side) and uses it's OS (Apple's strong side) to sell that hardware. The only result of a leaked MacOS that can run on any PC will be a bunch of Dell's running a pirated version of MacOS ... lose-lose for Apple.

My interest will be in a laptop that can dual boot into both MacOS and Windows

liquidtrance123 · Jun 6, 2005, 11:13 PM

So besides tying the boot rom identifier to the CPU identifier, i just wait till the boot rom is leaked, buy a supported board, and i could build my own apple with "supported hardware"? hmmmm

:dragonflypro: · Jun 6, 2005, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

Wonder if the developer system will ship in a G5-style case...?

You'd think for a monumental move like this it would be a redesign. The G5 (sic) will be ready for one by then anyway.

T

chrisutley · Jun 7, 2005, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Yes, but Apple makes most of it's money off hardware (Apple's weak side) and uses it's OS (Apple's strong side) to sell that hardware. The only result of a leaked MacOS that can run on any PC will be a bunch of Dell's running a pirated version of MacOS ... lose-lose for Apple.

My interest will be in a laptop that can dual boot into both MacOS and Windows

Screw dual boot... on Intel you will be able to boot OS X and run something like Vmware. Because you are native hardware for Windows, it's going to run WAY WAY WAY faster than Virtual PC. I am looking forward to my dual core PowerBook with 4GB of RAM running OS X, Windows, and Fedora all at the same time. I can do that now of course, but it's so slow that real work is a pain in the ass.

Person Man · Jun 7, 2005, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by liquidtrance123

So besides tying the boot rom identifier to the CPU identifier, i just wait till the boot rom is leaked, buy a supported board, and i could build my own apple with "supported hardware"? hmmmm

It will not just be the boot rom. Apple will NEVER use off-the-shelf, "ready-made" motherboards. They will design their own, with plenty of custom chips. In order to run OS X for Intel on an off-the-shelf motherboard, not only will you have to get the boot ROMs, but you will also have to write drivers for the motherboards, etc... or emulate Apple Hardware like Pear PC does now.

ryarber · Jun 7, 2005, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by chrisutley

Screw dual boot... on Intel you will be able to boot OS X and run something like Vmware. Because you are native hardware for Windows, it's going to run WAY WAY WAY faster than Virtual PC. I am looking forward to my dual core PowerBook with 4GB of RAM running OS X, Windows, and Fedora all at the same time. I can do that now of course, but it's so slow that real work is a pain in the ass.

Aren't they moving back to 32 bit chips with the move to intel? If so, doesn't that put the RAM limit back to 2GB like we were with the G4? Is there a 64 bit version of the P4 out there? I think AMD has a 64 bit chip, but I'm not familiar with an intel version. Maybe that is in the pipeline and we'll see it with the 1st powermac. Maybe that is why we'll have to wait until 2007 to see the first intel chip in a powermac.

gururafiki · Jun 7, 2005, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by chrisutley

I am looking forward to my dual core PowerBook with 4GB of RAM running OS X, Windows, and Fedora all at the same time. I can do that now of course, but it's so slow that real work is a pain in the ass.

sounds fun!

mac freak · Jun 7, 2005, 02:03 AM

So no one knows the specs? Does it not say on the page where you order it? I can't get there, since I'm not a select/premier ADC member...

Athens · Jun 7, 2005, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The 'developer machine' is a virtual clone of one of the new ASUS retail motherboards. I can't say which one. It utilizes darn near all the latest chipset features - along with an Apple proprietary boot ROM. Windows (and other OSes) will, in fact, run on the platform - but the MacOS will not run on any x86 platform without the proprietary boot ROM.

you're welcome.

give it a week after they hit the streets for that boot ROM to be cracked.

osxpinot · Jun 7, 2005, 02:23 AM

I'm sure they'll put GPS tracking into these to make sure one doesn't escape them.

osxpinot · Jun 7, 2005, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

give it a week after they hit the streets for that boot ROM to be cracked.

I truly believe this to be the case. Furthermore, Apple doesn't have a lot of experience from keeping people from doing things. It is new territory for them If they think they can combat the problem with their legal team, they are dead wrong.

Nebagakid · Jun 7, 2005, 02:29 AM

Who knows what will happen in a year. All you people here are speculating on things that have not been said.

All one can be sure of is that this does not mean Mac OS X on anything but Apple made hardware. Period

Athens · Jun 7, 2005, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by osxpinot

I truly believe this to be the case. Furthermore, Apple doesn't have a lot of experience from keeping people from doing things. It is new territory for them If they think they can combat the problem with their legal team, they are dead wrong.

Thats why if they where smart they would release a stand alone copy at 199.00 and sell to the general masses and make money off the OS, and for the hardware, bundle it with ilife, and some other great software to make the machine a great deal

osxpinot · Jun 7, 2005, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by Athens

Thats why if they where smart they would release a stand alone copy at 199.00 and sell to the general masses and make money off the OS, and for the hardware, bundle it with ilife, and some other great software to make the machine a great deal

No, I don't think that would be smart. The people who are going to be installing OS X on hacked out machines are going to pirate the OS anyways. Let the stupid people that don't have a clue buy macs. Not to mention the driver support.

tooki · Jun 7, 2005, 03:32 AM

Well, just to add a historical perspective:

Mac OS X is a direct descendant of NeXTstep. In fact, one could accurately say that Mac OS X is simply a later version of NeXT.

Anyway, NeXTstep existed for Intel. But you couldn't just install it on any old PC. Aside from having system requirements that, for the time, were extremely high (16MB minimum RAM for grayscale display, 32MB to get color, back when most PCs had 2-4MB RAM), it had very limited driver support. If you wanted to run it, you had to pick components very carefully.

I similarly expect that whatever OS X ships on Apple's Intel machines will have no driver support for any parts Apple has not shipped. This will make running it on arbitrary PC hardware very non-trivial.

tooki

osxpinot · Jun 7, 2005, 03:40 AM

I don't think people will care if they have to build a computer based on parts that are OS X compatible (What do they have to loose other than time?). It will be a non-issue for them as it is still cheaper than a Mac

osxpinot · Jun 7, 2005, 03:41 AM

Rhapsody is a pretty good example too. There were some compatibility problems there too.

SomeToast · Jun 7, 2005, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by osxpinot

I don't think people will care if they have to build a computer based on parts that are OS X compatible (What do they have to lose other than time?). It will be a non-issue for them as it is still cheaper than a Mac

A sound and reasoned argument... derived from an assumption based upon a guess with its roots in the unknown.