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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > 1GHZ TiBook - Fan issue defined

1GHZ TiBook - Fan issue defined
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cycloneX
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Dec 4, 2002, 05:59 PM
 
Hi.

I got my 1Ghz with Superdrive yesterday. From what I've read so far in this forum that there is a so called "fan bug".

Since I am thinking of returning my PB completely (not getting a new one again) I would like to know how a TiBook without "fan bug" does.
Is there really a bug or are some people (including me) oversensitive?

My situation: (plugged in)

-Booting up OSX.
-Starting nothing but iDVD (doing nothing but just let it display the global theme)
-minute 3: both fans kick in full power
-Closing iDVD
-minute 11: back fan stops (or runs at low speed. can't hear it anymore)
-minute 42: side fan eventually stops

So it takes more than half an hour for the side fan to stop? I am actually not touching the TiBook, no programs running. The air coming from it is pretty cool, so I don't see why it should be running........*disappointed*


So I am asking people without the "fan bug" to please try this and post their results.

Thank you,
Chris
     
hippy
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:18 PM
 
Don't know if I have the fan bug but my quiet fan is on alot

started iDVD and left for 10 mins. quiet fan came on almost straight away (i am charging tho') . noisy fan didn't come on unit I opened photoShop and started hammering some filters......

waiting for noisy fan to stop !
will update when it does... stopped 3mins 50 secs later
quiet fan still going...
     
caseygittings
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:28 PM
 
turn your miracle ear down, I think this will fix it. I cant even hear my fan. Are you sitting in a cave. Go get a quiet 10lb Dell.
Casey Gittings
     
riverfreak
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:28 PM
 
Originally posted by hippy:

waiting for noisy fan to stop !
will update when it does... stopped 3mins 50 secs later
quiet fan still going...
This is so imprecise. It's not really appropriate to call it a the "noisy fan". Louder, perhaps, but it certainly isn't noisy, like a clanging sound. It's the sound of moving air.

Perhaps the air coming from the vent is cool precisely *because* the fan is on. That is, instead of waiting for the entire machine to heat up to ungodly temperatures, the fan comes on.

Personally, although I am sensitive to the sound of the fan (I've said it multiple times before, I'm coming from a super silent iBook), I've come to believe that there is no "fan bug".

It's a design consideration. The Ti puts out heat, the heat must be dealt with. Take the Ti to an office with climate control. I guarantee you will not hear the fan in that environment.
     
hippy
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:35 PM
 
Yeah I guess you're right... I've just been reading the posts from sean yepez saying they are changing manufacturing processes next week and was kinda pissed off !
     
cycloneX  (op)
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:41 PM
 
Originally posted by riverfreak:


This is so imprecise. It's not really appropriate to call it a the "noisy fan". Louder, perhaps, but it certainly isn't noisy, like a clanging sound. It's the sound of moving air.

Perhaps the air coming from the vent is cool precisely *because* the fan is on. That is, instead of waiting for the entire machine to heat up to ungodly temperatures, the fan comes on.

Personally, although I am sensitive to the sound of the fan (I've said it multiple times before, I'm coming from a super silent iBook), I've come to believe that there is no "fan bug".

It's a design consideration. The Ti puts out heat, the heat must be dealt with. Take the Ti to an office with climate control. I guarantee you will not hear the fan in that environment.
That's not the point here I think.

Nobody is complaining that the fans are on from time to time. Power->heat->noise. No problem. But when this thing actually gets louder than my AMD destkop I am starting to wonder.

I am also starting to wonder if the fans won't turn off again.
Current example:
I used Photoshop Elements to enhance an images resolution... After one minute of rendering, the back fan came on full. I stopped the action. This has been 30 minutes ago. The back fan is still on, circulating cold air. The side fan did not even start (obviously because I canceled the photoshop action before it got too hot overall). Anyway. You can't tell me that this is normal.... BTW: I'm running on battery.
     
Art Vandelay
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:50 PM
 
Originally posted by hippy:
Yeah I guess you're right... I've just been reading the posts from sean yepez saying they are changing manufacturing processes next week and was kinda pissed off !
More than likely it is just a firmware update to change the software logic in the fan controllers. The PowerMacs just received a firmware update for their fans and many people said it made a huge difference.

Having said that, my new PowerBook (1Ghz/1GB/SD/60GB) is quiter than my old iBook 500. With one fan on, it is much quiter than my iBook with just a spinning hard drive. With both fans on which has happened only once today (I've been using it all day installing stuff) it may be a little louder than the iBook. Maybe. It's hard to tell. My fanless iMac DV SE 400 is much louder than both 'Books with its hard drive noise. To sum it up, my PowerBook is a very quiet computer.
Vandelay Industries
     
cambro
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:55 PM
 
This is a DESKTOP replacement. See the first post on this forum page for my opinion on this matter. The bottom line is, if I can play a system intensive game (Quake III) on a network at the highest quality settings for an hour+ and get great performance on a 1" thick portable that is significantly quieter than a lesser-powered SD eMac, then I am happy.

If you have excessively loud fan noise all the time and it is truly louder than an eMac or comparable desktop then I would suggest you have a problem because I have yet to see that on my 1 Ghz combo and I've compared it side-by-side while doing system-intensive things (like playing games).

If you want a quieter machine, get an iBook*, or go knock yourself out and get one of those penis-burning, barely-portable, Dell beasts.

EDIT::*I agree with the previous post. The hard drive on many other portables is louder than the first cycle fan on the TiBook plus the Ti's hard drive is virtually silent. Overall, my Ti is a very quiet computer even if the first-cycle fan is on frequently.
     
Tesseract
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Dec 4, 2002, 06:56 PM
 
Before, we were complaining about the heat of the older TiBooks. Now, Apple fixes the issue [by using a (presumably) more effective fan] and people start complaining about the fan. Will you guys ever be satisfied?
( Last edited by Tesseract; Dec 6, 2002 at 10:26 PM. )
     
cycloneX  (op)
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Dec 4, 2002, 07:02 PM
 
Originally posted by Tesseract:
Before, we were complaining about the heat of the older TiBooks. Now, Apple fixes the issue [by using a (presumably) more effective fan] and people start complaining about the fan. Will you guys ever be satisfied?
I'd rather have burn holes in my desk than a mind nummmming noise all the time.

If you don't have any problems with your powerbook then just be happy. Also if you do have problems but didn't mind spending 4000ļæ½$ on a faulty machine...
     
DVD Plaza
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Dec 4, 2002, 08:09 PM
 
Why are those with a quiet fan insisting there is no problem? YOUR right side fan is virtually silent and your center one is loud, that's the way it is meant to be.

Those of us with the problem have a LOUD right side fan AND a loud center fan, that is NOT the same as your situation (unless you can hear your right-side fan from another room).
     
Sophie
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Dec 4, 2002, 08:45 PM
 
One other thing is that with a cooler case the paint will not suffer as much, but I agree noice is not nice, I have an old compaq that is really loud. One of the reasons I like my ibook. ;-)
     
paranopete
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Dec 4, 2002, 09:15 PM
 
Let me tell my point of view:

Got my PB 1Ghz/SD yesterday and the right fan is LOUD and it goes on nearly IMMEDIATELY when working with something which must not be a cpu-killerapp!

The very interesting point is: It is only so sensitive when the AC-Plug is connected! With only battery power the fan does not turn on so fast.

And: The machine is not even warm when the right fan is start blowing, and it streams COLD air most of the time.

I agree that when using power like rendering movies or playing 3D games, the PB produces heat and then there is need of a fan (or two). That's absolute ok.

But using NO power and having the fan on is NOT something which is a state of sensitivity of your ear or something else, it must be a stupid technical bug which is not accetable in my opinion!

So please no comments like that this is a Desktop-Replacement and so on. For sure it is, but it is also a portable computer which you should use in trains, libraries, schools and at home without terrifying people around you with unnecessary fan-noise...

NO HEAT - NO BLOWING FAN!!!!!

Greetz and good night from Germany - paranopete
check out: http://loops.pardeike.net
     
Charles Bouldin
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Dec 4, 2002, 09:50 PM
 
Originally posted by paranopete:
Let me tell my point of view:

Got my PB 1Ghz/SD yesterday and the right fan is LOUD and it goes on nearly IMMEDIATELY when working with something which must not be a cpu-killerapp!

The very interesting point is: It is only so sensitive when the AC-Plug is connected! With only battery power the fan does not turn on so fast.

And: The machine is not even warm when the right fan is start blowing, and it streams COLD air most of the time.
My right side fan is (I think) not as loud as some people have described, but, I agree that:

1. It comes on too soon.
2. It stays on too long.
3. Often it seems to be doing nothing but moving a lot of cool/barely warm air.
4. It --definitely-- comes on much more and stays on longer when I'm on AC power.

Sounds like apple needs to post a firmware update for the early purchasers.
     
seanyepez
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Dec 4, 2002, 09:57 PM
 
Firmware won't solve anything at all. That's for sure. Firmware can't cool off components. When you're plugged in, the power board is active to charge the battery and keep the machine running off external current. It's to be expected.
     
seanyepez
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Dec 4, 2002, 09:58 PM
 
Mind you, I think iDVD consumes a lot of CPU time just being open and in the foreground.
     
jjs357
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Dec 4, 2002, 10:24 PM
 
I posted a note this morning to the "when does your 1Ghz fan come on" thread about a brand new 1Ghz/1 Gig Ram/Superdrive and its fan behavior.

The book sat at home all day sleeping and plugged in to the AC adaptor. This evening when I started to use it, all the fans stayed off for over 20 minutes. Then the right fan (the loud one for me) came on. Since the battery was charged, I unconnected the AC adaptor and after a few minutes the right fan turned off. I then plugged in the AC adaptor. The battery indicator said the battery was still fully charged. After a few quiet minutes (not more than 10), the right fan was back on. I unplugged the adaptor again and shortly the fan was off again. Plugged it back in and soon the fan was on. In all of this experimentation, the CPU was NOT under any heavy load.

After one of these un-plug and plug sequences, the battery indicator did show that 15 minutes of charging were required (the glow ring around the adaptor plug was orange rather than green).

The machine sat on my lap in a cool room (it's winter in Pennsylvania) through all this. The bottom of the machine was quite warm -- warmer than the Pismo/500 that I had been using. The air coming out of the fan vent was cool however.

I am beginning to suspect that the heat sink/heat convection inside the book is not operating efficiently in some books, mine included. The fan(s) are working to compensate for this.

If the right fan was on, but at lower volume, I could be convinced that this running was a reasonable thing. But I am jealous of those who report quiet Superbooks with nearly silent fan operation.

Perhaps the production change that Seanyepez reported is what Apple is doing to give everyone the enyoyable fan noise experience. I wonder if this change can be applied to powerbooks already delivered. I hope so.

Jim
     
DVD Plaza
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Dec 4, 2002, 10:31 PM
 
Originally posted by seanyepez:
When you're plugged in, the power board is active to charge the battery and keep the machine running off external current. It's to be expected.
And how is that different from my 800DVI? It doesn't even have a right-side fan, it has a single fan that uses multiple speeds (the slowest of which isn't very loud).

Is the right-side fan in YOUR PowerBook louder/same as your center fan?
     
mrtew
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Dec 4, 2002, 10:52 PM
 
My 1gig has a fan that's on a lot that is very quiet. I don't even notice it, unlike the fan on my 667 that would alarm and alert me that some app had gone CPU crazy when it came on. I almost never hear the loud fan, but when it does it's more like the sound of the 667's. The quiet fan is nice... comforting to know that the CPU is being cooled without the annoying noise of the loud one.

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
issa
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Dec 4, 2002, 11:19 PM
 
Messages on this forum suggest to me that some users have received new PowerBooks with noisy (right?) fans while others haven't had to suffer this trauma. Of course, judging the actual noise level is a somewhat subjective measure. Members also live in differing locations where it is winter for some and summer for others. Overall then, we are likely witnessing an overlap in the reports and reactions of forum members as regards the amount of noise each is experiencing.

My impression is that the circuitry is basically operating in the same manner for most everybody, and that we are all noticing the fan on the right running a good deal of the time. If Apple deems it safe to implement one, a firmware update could very easily change the operation of the circuitry in regards to how it controls the fans, one that could raise the temperature threshold before they kick in. Needless to say, while this would help users who still want to run absolutely silent more of the time at the expense of hotter components inside regardless of how noisy their fans are or aren't, it can't help those who have been burdened with out-of-spec fans to begin with. And folks who have received such fans certainly should receive satisfaction from Apple. Still, reading various forums and polling users I can access locally does lead me to interpret that the majority are not suffering from the noisy fan problem.

Now, I'll probably get trashed for even suggesting this, but here goes. I am still new to this forum and don't know seanyepez, so can't judge the overall validity of his reports in the past; and I mean him no disrespect. However, based on what I've read to date, I am amazed how his lone report of a supposed firmware bug that effects some machines but not all, one that will be remedied as of machines built on December 6th is taken as gospel. I would take with a grain of salt. Or two. The logic of this assumption escapes me and I haven't been able to confirm any such story through friends who work for the maker.

Just my two yen's worth. And that ain't much lately...
( Last edited by issa; Dec 5, 2002 at 12:48 AM. )
     
Charles Bouldin
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Dec 5, 2002, 12:00 AM
 
Originally posted by seanyepez:
Firmware won't solve anything at all. That's for sure. Firmware can't cool off components. When you're plugged in, the power board is active to charge the battery and keep the machine running off external current. It's to be expected.
Eh? Surely there are settings in firmware that say something like "when the thermistor value exceeds x, turn the fan on". By changing the value of x, firmware does control when the fan turns on/off. The real situation is much more complicated, but it has to be similar to this. People seem to be saying that the fan settings seem pretty aggressive, given that the air that is being moved is cool/warm, so I do think that there is perhaps some margin to change the settings where the fan(s) come on.
     
seanyepez
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Dec 5, 2002, 02:43 AM
 
Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
And how is that different from my 800DVI? It doesn't even have a right-side fan, it has a single fan that uses multiple speeds (the slowest of which isn't very loud).
You're 100% wrong. The 800-megahertz DVI PowerBook has two cooling fans.
     
DVD Plaza
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Dec 5, 2002, 03:30 AM
 
And you're 100% avoiding the point - you're demanding the noisy fan in the 1GHz to be necessary because of the power adapter/charging yet the 800DVI does the same job silently.

That's outright rediculous - if the 800DVI can have a silent right-side fan, if others can have silent right-side fans in their 1GHz, then there's no reason why we cannot have a silent fan...

Why won't you answer the question - is your right side fan as loud/louder than your center fan or not. It's either a yes or a no.
     
chombier
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Dec 5, 2002, 05:21 AM
 
Originally posted by seanyepez:
Firmware won't solve anything at all. That's for sure. Firmware can't cool off components. When you're plugged in, the power board is active to charge the battery and keep the machine running off external current. It's to be expected.
I own a TiG4 667 CDRW, which has only one fan, and is fully silent when plugged and idle (hot but silent).
On my new TiG4 1Gig, the right side fan is ALWAYS on after 5 minutes, and never stops, even though the computer is really cool.
Couldn't a firmware update raise the temperature threshold used to start the right side fan ?

- Jean-Pierre.
     
one09jason
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Dec 5, 2002, 10:09 AM
 
Now, I'll probably get trashed for even suggesting this, but here goes. I am still new to this forum and don't know seanyepez, so can't judge the overall validity of his reports in the past; and I mean him no disrespect. However, based on what I've read to date, I am amazed how his lone report of a supposed firmware bug that effects some machines but not all, one that will be remedied as of machines built on December 6th is taken as gospel. I would take with a grain of salt. Or two. The logic of this assumption escapes me and I haven't been able to confirm any such story through friends who work for the maker.
Well, I can explain the reaction in a few simple steps.

1) May of us have been burned by Apple's denial of the existance of hardware problems before.

Mac Owner: "I have a problem with my [insert your model name here]. It has [dead pixels / peeling paint / noisy hard drive / niosy fan(s) / spongy keyboard / strange noises / bad airport reception / cracks in molding / gets really hot / cracked hinges ] Can you fix it?

Apple representative: "Try zapping the pRAM."

Mac Owner: "OK, but what's that got to do with it? I have this really obvious problem with [insert your problem here]. Just[listen (holds phone up to Mac). / look at it (sends picture).]

Apple representative: "Your Mac is operating within normal parameters."

Mac Owner: "Really, but the unit in the Apple Store I was looking at doesn't have [insert your problem here].

Apple representative: " "

Mac Owner: "Hello, still there?"

Apple representative: "Your Mac is operating within normal parameters. If you think there's something wrong with it, take it to an Apple Authorized Service Center."

Mac Owner: "Ok."

...

Mac Owner: (after dropping off at Apple Service Center) "How's may Mac, fixed yet?"

Service Person: "Apple says your Mac is operating within normal parameters."


2) We're spending alot of money on a PowerBook, again.

3) Sean has given us a plausible explanation.

So history is repeating itself, it's just that this time, Sean has indirectly suggested a possible way to avoid the problem, which we all know intuitively anyway: Don't buy one of the first of anything Apple manufactures.
     
issa
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Dec 5, 2002, 11:26 AM
 
one09jason,

I was writing specifically that I don't find the explanation plausible, nor the comments related to firmware and what can't be done about it, etc. It makes a lot more sense that a few out-of-spec noisy fans snuck past QC at the factory. This could happen in an early run or in a later one and is not time specific. Also find it sad that suppositions not based in practices of product development or manufacture lead to a sort of semi-mass hysteria and all sorts of needless worry on the part of users who are not confident in their purchase. Still, you end on a note that is likely a good suggestion to those who are worried about imperfections in first-run production of *any* product that incorporates new technologies. Don't limit this to Apple. Digital cameras often require firmware upgrades, as do scanners and most every piece of equipment you can name by most any maker. It was worse in the old days when flash ROM wasn't available or was too expensive, because then buyers had to live with a given firmware or send the product in to have the ROMs physically swapped. So, wait until you are content that the product is everything you want it to be before spending your hard-earned cash. In the meantime, many of us are making a living on these machines and the added speed, display quality and other features can pay for themselves quickly enough to make an early purchase worthwhile.

As for the more general issue here of whether the current temperature threshold is necessary to keep the 1GHz CPU and AIT9000 GPU cool, or whether it can be raised. Well, we'll learn the answer to that in time.
     
gg1234
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Dec 5, 2002, 11:55 AM
 
issa,
You are the Voice of Reason....
     
photoeditor
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Dec 5, 2002, 12:01 PM
 
The two fans have a different tone. Some will find one more annoying, and some will find the other more annoying. Personally, I find the center fan more annoying -- the right side fan is very low key indeed. But maybe I'm tone deaf in that range, who knows?

Also, it makes a difference what kind of desk you're working on and whether you have the computer propped up. A hollow core IKEA coffee table throws less heat back at the computer than a solid plywood desktop. Also propping the computer up at the back helps with both heating and touch typing (I sometimes use two matching plastic milk bottle tops off half-gallon containers).

In short, there are many more variables besides the factory.
     
issa
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Dec 5, 2002, 12:16 PM
 
Good points well stated, photoeditor.

I went all the way to the factory in order to accommodate the possibility that some have received right-side fans that are inordinately loud. One example is DVD Plaza who mentions his being louder than the center fan, enough so that it can be heard from a different room. At the same time, I think much of the -uh - noise on the forum is based on subjective reactions to the fans as well as the conditions of use as stated by photoeditor.

Ever since Apple took away the neat fold-down legs on the PB500 series that made it possible to raise the rear plane of the 'Book, I have opted to use two large erasers under the back corners that raise the back close to an inch. These high-tech puppies have served me well through several 'Books, not only to aid the flow of air under the machine, but also to facilitate a better angle for typing. While they aren't necessary, I also employ two thin hard rubber pieces under the front end to lift it about 1/8" for even better airflow, (a larger air cushion). On the downside, I work on a wooden desk.
     
one09jason
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Dec 5, 2002, 12:42 PM
 
Originally posted by issa:

I was writing specifically that I don't find the explanation plausible, nor the comments related to firmware and what can't be done about it, etc. It makes a lot more sense that a few out-of-spec noisy fans snuck past QC at the factory.
We might be mising in midair, but I think we're referring to the same thing. I agree with you that it is likely a minor QC issue, and a few bad units made it through.

The explanation that I understood from reading the forums was the following:

1) Some 1GHz PBs have noisy fans because there they contain faulty "fan controller" or a misaligned "thermal sensor". That is to say, a hardware defect.

I find this explanation quite plausible, don't you?

Also note that:

- Some new PBs are noisy while other are not.

- There is the suggestion that Apple is aware of this, thinks it is a problem, will attempt to fix it, but will likely not acknowledge the problem or their efforts.


This could happen in an early run or in a later one and is not time specific. Also find it sad that suppositions not based in practices of product development or manufacture lead to a sort of semi-mass hysteria...
This comment seems to suggest that you have knowledge of the "practices of product development and manufacture" that members of this forum do not. If so, what are these practices that we misunderstand? I'm playing devil's advocate here because I think that on the whole the members of the forum here are quite astute. They sense that Apple's manufacturing practices, whatever they may be, allow defective PowerBooks to be sold. They surmise that this has historically been true and continues to be true with new models because there is no bottom line consequence to Apple. This is a shame because I sense that the general attitude of forum members here is that they would gladly pay a few extra dollars for the guarentee of no defects, or at least the ability to return the PB if it had one. Many manufacturers allow returns. Why doesn't Apple?

...and all sorts of needless worry on the part of users who are not confident in their purchase.
Now this one I just flat-out disagree with. There are many members here who feel that $3k is a lot to pay for a computer, and can only afford to do so every few years. That you might have to live with a bunch of dead pixels or noisy fan because Apple claims these are a "normal" is a valid concern. Buyers are simply gathering all the information information they have to make a purchasing decision. Gathering information, I suggest, in one of the main reasons to read these boards.

By the way, I have worked for for several manufacturing firms before, and I am familiar with "practices of product development or manufacture". I once worked for a pharmaceutical manufacturer that produced a batch of drugs in containers whose labels later fell off while in the warehouse. FDA regulations state that in such an instance, the product must be destroyed (lest the drugs are mis-labeled). The manufacturer's solution was to send a crack team of QA employees to the warehouse to glue the labels back on. I realize that this is anecdotal evidence, and I'm not accusing Apple of such practices, but wouldn't it be easier on the bottom line to simply deny that the poblem exists when you have a 10% restocking fee and know from past experience that most buyers won't return the product?

Simple human behavior - by both the manufacturer and the consumer here.
( Last edited by one09jason; Dec 5, 2002 at 12:51 PM. )
     
issa
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Dec 5, 2002, 02:06 PM
 
We might be mising in midair, but I think we're referring to the same thing. I agree with you that it is likely a minor QC issue, and a few bad units made it through.
Cool. This makes it a pity you feel compelled to attempt broadening the conversation to realms that go quite off-topic. Despite your implications, I am doing no more than to suggest that we all keep a cool head, look at the evidence closely, and see how this all works out before we start banging the war drums and screaming that Apple is out to screw us. I'm as interested as the next person as to how this unfolds and have no intention of riling or playing down anybody. If and when we find that some units are defective, then Apple certainly must take care of them. The same way they had to replace the motherboard in my Rev.A unit when it experienced a failure in the FireWire port after using certain bus-powered devices, a problem witnessed in too many early units. I never suggested otherwise.

Getting back to the topic at hand now, no, I still don't find the (differing) explanation(s) from one member plausible. Sorry if that irks you.

It's past my bedtime. If you insist, we can move this to a separate thread and I will address each of your points in detail. In the meantime, you might read what I've written previously before pointing too many fingers at once.
     
Troll
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Dec 5, 2002, 04:47 PM
 
Originally posted by one09jason:

Sean has indirectly suggested a possible way to avoid the problem, which we all know intuitively anyway: Don't buy one of the first of anything Apple manufactures.
How many models of Titanium G4 PowerBook have been released before this one? Please, this is anything but "one of the first." More likely, this is one of the last!!

Most people think that the behaviour with the AC unplugged is normal. If that's the case, then it seems clear that:

1) either there is a problem that can be fixed by changing the firmware or some software so that the behaviour of the fans is similar plugged in or out; or

2) this isn't a problem at all.
     
jmp998
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Dec 5, 2002, 06:28 PM
 
My unified fan theory (including what to most are painfully obvious details) based on reading many posts and also what I consider the 'normal' behavior of my 'non-defective' 1GHz powerbook:

The current TiBooks have 2 fans

Fan#1
The fan on the back right corner, near the power button, runs most of the time when the powerbook is plugged in. On most PB's it is a relatively quiet fan, however there are some exceptions where this fan is very loud (e.g. dvdplaza). This fan does not usually run when on battery power. Even with little or no processor usage this fan is often on, especially when charging the battery. This fan is very quiet compared to fan #2.

Fan#2
The fan in the back center seems to come on mostly with processor utilization; in fact if you run processor intensive functions while running on battery power, this fan comes on before Fan#1. On my powerbook, this fan doesn't come on with LIGHT use unless the powerbook is on a soft surface which prevents air circulation (e.g. sitting on a pillow on the couch). This fan is what most would consider 'loud,' similar to the seldom heard fans in the older powerbook G3's. Sounds more or less like a CD spinning at very high speed; much noisier than fan #1.

So there are two potential problems which people complaining about loud fans are generally not distinguishing between.

Problem A-Fan#1 is defective (bad bearings, misaligned, something) so that when it runs most of the time (as it 'should') it makes a lot of noise. I interpret this to be dvdplaza's problem.

Problem B-Fan#2, which is noisy even in the best machines, runs too often (i.e. even with minimal processor load). This would seem likely due to the sporadic misaligned thermistor/bad firmware problem seanyepez brought up, such that the temperature sensor is not working correctly.

FWIW for me the fans in mine are near ideal for my purposes. Fan#1 runs almost all the time but is barely detectable and keeps the laptop comfortably cool. Fan#2 runs when I stress the system, and is unfortunately loud, but that's the price paid for 1GHz G4 in a 1" package.

So post which problem you have, or whether it is something else entirely.
     
hippy
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Dec 5, 2002, 06:33 PM
 
spot on mate that sounds about perfect and just how my 1ghz tIbook works.

I love my new powerbook
     
cycloneX  (op)
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Dec 5, 2002, 07:21 PM
 
Nice roundup!

Seems like I have problem #1:
The right fan runs all the time when the Powerbook is plugged in. It's noise is definately irritating. I think it only runs on one speed: Maximum that is... It doesn't switch to lower speeds for some reason...(sensor broken?)

I don't have problems with the fan in the back #2. It usually kicks in when doing some really processor intensive work (like Photoshop).
It turns off after 5 minutes usually. That's reasonable and the price to pay for 1 Ghz.


Current situation: Turned on my PB 3 hours ago. I did not even touch it (typing this from another machine). Fan has been running all the time. SSSSHHHHHHHHH.
     
issa
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Dec 5, 2002, 08:32 PM
 
Thanks for bringing the strings together jmp998!

So, in the course of this thread so far we have cycloneX, paranopete, and DVD Plaza suffering from problem #1.

My PB falls into jmp98's FWIW follow-up, running fan#1 most of the time at a tolerable level of noise and with fan#2 kicking in for brief periods under heavy load.

Curious about what will happen next summer, though, when the ambient temperature in our thin-walled home goes shooting skyward.
     
chromos
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Dec 5, 2002, 08:43 PM
 
Originally posted by jmp998:
My unified fan theory (including what to most are painfully obvious details) based on reading many posts and also what I consider the 'normal' behavior of my 'non-defective' 1GHz powerbook:

The current TiBooks have 2 fans

Fan#1
The fan on the back right corner, near the power button, runs most of the time when the powerbook is plugged in. On most PB's it is a relatively quiet fan, however there are some exceptions where this fan is very loud (e.g. dvdplaza). This fan does not usually run when on battery power. Even with little or no processor usage this fan is often on, especially when charging the battery. This fan is very quiet compared to fan #2.

Fan#2
The fan in the back center seems to come on mostly with processor utilization; in fact if you run processor intensive functions while running on battery power, this fan comes on before Fan#1. On my powerbook, this fan doesn't come on with LIGHT use unless the powerbook is on a soft surface which prevents air circulation (e.g. sitting on a pillow on the couch). This fan is what most would consider 'loud,' similar to the seldom heard fans in the older powerbook G3's. Sounds more or less like a CD spinning at very high speed; much noisier than fan #1.
I'm confused here... reading these reports it seems like there are two different "configurations" of PBs out there. I have a back center fan that comes on first, even under light load, and it makes a quiet whirring noise. The back right fan comes on under heavier processor utilization (usu. with the AC adapter in use), and makes a louder "CD spinning" noise (which can be annoying in an otherwise quiet environment). The back right fan also takes up to 30 min to shut off under my usage, so it seems like it's "always on."

Could it be that wires were switched, and my right fan is being utilized for high proc cooling when it wasn't designed for that? QC couldn't be that bad, could it?

EDIT: added bold to right/center
     
CyberPet
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Dec 6, 2002, 09:54 AM
 
I might not add anything to this topic, but I can tell about my problems.

Bougth a TiBook (1GHz Superdrive) and recieved it on wednesday december 4th.

After 5-10 minutes the one fan comes on (not that loud). I thought it was because I did delete my whole drive to partition it and then reinstall everything. But after a couple of hours fiddling around, setting the mail, browsing the web etc the fan never turned off. It kept going and hasn't come off yet either (well except when I went to bed and put it to sleep).

There's defineatly two fans in it, one to the right and another at the back/middle. The second fan did kick in about 10 min after the first fan kicking in and then the noise started to be unbareable.

I can accept a fan coming on when I work in Photoshop, watch a DVD-video or burn DVD-R's, but not when I'm only checking my mail and brows the web. But the constant sound of a fan, less then half a meter from my ears all day is very very tiresome and my ears hurt!

When I touch the bottom of the computer it doesn't feel hot. My old Pismo felt warmer and its fan never came on - ever - since I got it about 2 years ago.

It saddens me to read some of the posts here where some people seem to tell the ones with the fan problem to stop whining and accept that the fan will come on. Well, to you I have to say, that's not the question, the problem is the fan NEVER TURNS OFF, EVER.

Just accept that we're a few that has the problem. Maybe it's being fixed in computers being shipped in computers shipping next week, but what comfort is that to my ears? Apple needs to fix this NOW!

OK, end of rant. I'm so totally dissapointed with Apple and PowerBooks in general after having to fight with issues like this ever since I bought my first Powerbook 5 years ago. Never had problems with my desktops, but I've never been lucky with a Powerbook as of today. I sure hope that will change VERY SOON or I'm thinking of doing something mean to someone that has employment at Apple.
/Petra
     
Eug
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Dec 6, 2002, 11:47 PM
 
This fan is damn loud.

One dead pixel too.
     
seanyepez
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Dec 6, 2002, 11:51 PM
 
Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
And you're 100% avoiding the point - you're demanding the noisy fan in the 1GHz to be necessary because of the power adapter/charging yet the 800DVI does the same job silently.

That's outright rediculous - if the 800DVI can have a silent right-side fan, if others can have silent right-side fans in their 1GHz, then there's no reason why we cannot have a silent fan...

Why won't you answer the question - is your right side fan as loud/louder than your center fan or not. It's either a yes or a no.
Wait, wait. Did I miss something? Last I checked, I didn't kill your family.

That wasn't what I said at all. I said extra heat is to be expected when external power is being used.

I don't work for Apple. Don't bitch to me, bitch to them. I could care less. In fact, I just received order shipment notification today. I won't know how quiet my PowerBook is until I get it.
     
hippy
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Dec 7, 2002, 05:57 AM
 
Hey Sean,

congratulations I am sure you'll love your new PB. Please let me know your findings in the fan department.

Thanks
     
freebird
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Dec 7, 2002, 11:36 PM
 
Maybe I can add an interesting possible fix. I did not have a problem with the high speed (louder fan) coming on under power when it shouldn't or a problem with the low speed fan staying on all the time. In fact I thought that I was one of the ones who didn't have a fan problem. My low speed fan did come on more often (while plugged in) than my Pismo, in fact the fan on the Pismo almost never came on but I attributed that to the faster processor.

I did however have a problem with the ac adapter. I first noticed that I wasn't getting a light at the end of the connector. Then I realized that I was only getting a slow trickle of a charge. Upon further investigation I found 3 cuts in the smaller of the two ac cables. Apple send a replacement 2nd day (smaller cable only) and I picked it up this morning. It just struck me a while ago that I have not heard the fan come on at all. Normally it would have by now. I also learned from tech support that due to new voltage requirements that I couldn't use any other ac adapter.

This could change over time but I find it very interesting that I've been using my new superdrive powerbook for 3 hours now, pretty continuously, and no fan. This is a change from what I experienced prior to replacing the a/c cable.
     
TiSteve
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Dec 8, 2002, 07:44 AM
 
Interesting that from freebird....and I could not help but wonder if the the two issues of the AC and fan issues are somehow related. When I got my new 1Ghz Superdrive Powerbook, I first connected it to the old AC adapter that I was using with my 667 Powerbook. After clueing in to the fact the the adapters are spec'd different and swapping out the old one for the new adapter, I have noticed that the "louder" fan does not seem to come on nearly so often, and when it does come on it does not stay on as long.

But then again, the fan noise was never an issue for me in the first place. I just thought I would relate this in case it strikes a cord with other users.
     
CyberPet
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Dec 8, 2002, 02:39 PM
 
Been runing without the AC hooked up and the fans still comes on. After about 10 min the first fan comes on, then after another 10 minutes the louder fan comes on, and after that none of the fans comes off, ever. Regardless if I run on battery or AC.

My PowerBook is defineatly going in for repair next week.
/Petra
     
Vanquish
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Dec 8, 2002, 03:22 PM
 
Ok stupid question: does this "issue" affect the 867 as well ? (everybody seems to have a 1Ghz...)
     
mjlukich
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Dec 8, 2002, 04:09 PM
 
Originally posted by Vanquish:
Ok stupid question: does this "issue" affect the 867 as well ? (everybody seems to have a 1Ghz...)
Actually, that is a very good question. It seems as though everyone posting with fan problems has a 1 ghz. How about it, is anyone out there with an 867 mhz experiencing any fan irregularities?
     
TheIceMan
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Dec 9, 2002, 01:42 AM
 
Originally posted by mjlukich:


Actually, that is a very good question. It seems as though everyone posting with fan problems has a 1 ghz. How about it, is anyone out there with an 867 mhz experiencing any fan irregularities?
Glad you guys are bringing this up. I have a 667Mhz G4 which (I know) is ancient by everyone's standards here. I haven't noticed any major fan problem. As someone had summarized, I believe that my fan (don't know if I have 1 or 2) only comes on during intensive applications. I only wish that I could turn it off somehow (esp. when I'm watching a movie on DVD).
     
dajay
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Dec 9, 2002, 08:26 AM
 
Originally posted by mjlukich:


Actually, that is a very good question. It seems as though everyone posting with fan problems has a 1 ghz. How about it, is anyone out there with an 867 mhz experiencing any fan irregularities?
My 867 is fine.
     
TobyX
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Dec 9, 2002, 09:46 AM
 
Originally posted by paranopete:

NO HEAT - NO BLOWING FAN!!!!!

Greetz and good night from Germany - paranopete
You're in Germany - why don't you just work outside? It's frellin' cold.

I promise, you're fan won't come up that much
Soylent green is people.
     
davidflas
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Dec 9, 2002, 11:06 AM
 
I've been following the fan issue(s) thread with much interest. I have a 1Ghz PB on order and should have it by the end of the week. I'll see how much noise the fans make and report back.
2.7Ghz 15" Mid 2012 MBP 16GB RAM 7.2k 750GB HD anti-glare display|64GB iPad4 ATT LTE|
     
 
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