[kupan787]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

In Windows it's click, CTRL-X, click Up, CTRL-V. In OS X, the only methods to do it involve work-arounds or band-aids.

What I do is:

Drag file to desktop, apple-click on title bar to navigate to parent folder, drag item from desktop to folder. Done.

So each of us does it in 3 steps.

[SS3 GokouX]

It seems no one here knows about the command-arrow keys, so I will tell you about them. Because it is awesome.

Command-Up: Go to the parent folder.
Command-Down: Open the selected file/folder.

Another way would be to drag an item to the Dock, then command-drag it to whatever location you want.

If someone knows a keyboard shortcut for moving to the parent folder in Windows, I would love to hear it.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

Alright, so show me how one moves a file back into its parent folder. THAT IS THE KEY POINT I'M GETTING AT.

I just want a simple, single-window, no-view-changes-required method to move a freaking file back a folder.

Drag the file to the Desktop.
Navigate to the folder you want it to be in.
Drag it into that folder.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Drag the file to the Desktop.
Navigate to the folder you want it to be in.
Drag it into that folder.

That's the method I find myself using most often. As moving files within a given partition is virtually instantaneous, there's pretty much no reason not to use this way.

Originally Posted by SS3 GokouX

Command-Up: Go to the parent folder.

Oddly enough, this key combo does not work while you are dragging a file. Odd...

[SS3 GokouX]

Originally Posted by TheoCryst 

Oddly enough, this key combo does not work while you are dragging a file. Odd...

True. I use it in conjunction with the moving files to Desktop then moving into the window's new location. Which is still incredibly fast.

Now that you mention it, I don't think key combos work during a drag in any application.

[jasong]

Wait, is the definition of an Apple Apologist someone who disagrees with Tomchu and agrees with Apple?

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Open the two folders you are interested in. Drag. Drop. (Or, if you are using column view, skip the first step!)

The point was that there should be the equivalent of a "cut" option in the Finder, so that I can go back a folder using any method, and then "paste" it in. Sure I can open the two folders ... but that's a pain in the ass.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Don't you want answers or not? Your attitude suggests that you don't really want answers and just want to pick fights.

Fight me.

Originally Posted by jasong 

Wait, is the definition of an Apple Apologist someone who disagrees with Tomchu and agrees with Apple?

You guys are too emotional when it comes to someone disagreeing with Apple's implementations/lack of implementations.

What I'm saying is that there are *better* and *faster* ways of doing certain things in Windows, and that it wouldn't kill Apple to implement the equivalent of a "cut" in the Finder. It would certainly make operations like moving files back a few folders easier.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

The point was that there should be the equivalent of a "cut" option in the Finder, so that I can go back a folder using any method, and then "paste" it in. Sure I can open the two folders ... but that's a pain in the ass.

The merits and drawbacks of that feature have been discussed to death in the forum and others. When Apple implemented Copy and Paste in the Finder, a decision was made not to implement Cut as well. That decision is not likely to be changed.

[Simon]

Basically, the whole problem would be solved if Apple would make 'copy' change to 'move' when you press option while pasting. I tried that and unfortunately it doesn't work in 10.4.8.

[Stradlater]

The Leopard Finder?:

YouTube - Mac OS X Leopard's "Quick Look" Previewing Feature In Action

[Catfish_Man]

Originally Posted by Stradlater 

The Leopard Finder?:

YouTube - Mac OS X Leopard's "Quick Look" Previewing Feature In Action

Certainly doesn't look like a new Finder to me; looks like a new file previewing function (Finder-specific? hard to say, but I'd hope not).

[Stradlater]

It's no longer brushed metal.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Certainly looks fake.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

What I'm saying is that there are *better* and *faster* ways of doing certain things in Windows, and that it wouldn't kill Apple to implement the equivalent of a "cut" in the Finder. It would certainly make operations like moving files back a few folders easier.

Nobody cares...especially not Apple. In fact, Apple will make sure these 'better' 'faster' ways never get implemented because Apple wants to piss you off.

[kmkkid]

I hope movies are finally given thumbnails in iconic view. That's probably the only feature I miss from XP. I'd also like an icon scale slider feature like in Vista, without having to open the view options.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Stradlater 

The Leopard Finder?:

YouTube - Mac OS X Leopard's "Quick Look" Previewing Feature In Action

Here are more vids:

http://www.musingsfrommars.org/video/quicklook1s2.mov
http://www.musingsfrommars.org/video/quicklook3s3.mov
http://www.musingsfrommars.org/video/quicklook2s.mov


Honestly, I don't see the point. Just add a preview pane to the finder in iconic view and I'll be happy.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Drag the file to the Desktop.
Navigate to the folder you want it to be in.
Drag it into that folder.

That's fine if all you have is one or two files you want to move, but what if it is a few hundred?

(Personally, I would use column view which gives me the flexibility to move anywhere on the system in just one window with extreme ease... but apparently that is a "band-aid" whereas using "cut" (which isn't actually a cut but we'll call it that just to confuse you), clicking some buttons to try to find the folder you want and pasting is not )

[ginoledesma]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Drag the file to the Desktop.
Navigate to the folder you want it to be in.
Drag it into that folder.

As an alternative to the cut-paste method of Windows, the same can be said using the above suggestion minus dragging the files to the desktop. All you need to do is:

1. Select files you want moved
2. Hold Command while clicking on the folder name in the title bar. This will reveal the folders leading up to the current folder. Select the (grand)parent folder and a new window opens.
3. Drag the file to the new window

This is more or less equivalent to the 3-step equivalent in Windows:
1. Select files, then "cut"
2. Click button(s) to navigate to desired parent folder
3. Paste

[besson3c]

This little trick that works under Windows may be nice for people that are hip to this "feature", but it is poor usability, and all-in-all pretty dumb, IMHO.

An ideal GUI establishes a pretty clear set of expectations and visual feedback that is ideally consistent and transparent to the user. Copying and pasting is reserved for copying selected/highlighted text and pictures to a buffer where it can be dumped into some sort of document within some sort of application that works in text and/or pictures, respectfully.

Being used to copy files breaks this convention. Why would a new user expect copying and pasting files to perform a file operation, rather than simply copying the names of these files? Maybe you could argue that a copy command copies the contents of what is selected, and since the file is selected, this ought to work, but I think this becomes pretty abstract.

Whether this feature is handy or not is somewhat besides the point. There are better ways to solve a problem like this in a far more predictable and coherent way.

Also, as already mentioned here, temporarily removing a file and placing into a buffer is likewise dumb. What happens if a user selects something else in the meantime, thereby replacing the buffer contents? How many files can be stored in the buffer before memory limitations come into play, and what happens when this is the case?

[Tomchu]

As was already said, nor the file or the contents are the file are placed in a "buffer" -- the file manager simply remembers the last file or set of files that were "cut", and nothing happens to those files until you "paste".

This fear of "OMG what if I cut a file, and then copy some text ... my files will be GONE!" is ignorant.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

As was already said, nor the file or the contents are the file are placed in a "buffer" -- the file manager simply remembers the last file or set of files that were "cut", and nothing happens to those files until you "paste".

This fear of "OMG what if I cut a file, and then copy some text ... my files will be GONE!" is ignorant.

That's great, but this too is an example of inconsistent usability. This also breaks the conventions set by this mechanism. Normally replacing the buffer is destructive.

This is a shoddy hack. It might be useful to some, but it is still a counter-intuitive feature that breaks usability conventions established by the rest of the OS.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Certainly looks fake.

heh.

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

That's great, but this too is an example of inconsistent usability. This also breaks the conventions set by this mechanism. Normally replacing the buffer is destructive.

This is a shoddy hack. It might be useful to some, but it is still a counter-intuitive feature that breaks usability conventions established by the rest of the OS.

Would the knot in your panties loosen if the names were changed to something more intuitive?

You're picking on the name vs. its operation. I liked the "Pick Up" suggestion.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Tomchu, go to http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/ and shut the **** up...for great justice.

[Big Mac]

The point is, Tomchu and the ex-Windows users who agree with him are not going to win. They can argue the point forever, but they're not going to get what they want.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

Would the know in your panties loosen if the names were changed to something more intuitive?

You're picking on the name vs. its operation. I liked the "Pick Up" suggestion.

Don't understand this post.

[alex_kac]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

The point is, Tomchu and the ex-Windows users who agree with him are not going to win. They can argue the point forever, but they're not going to get what they want.

Not to argue for either side, but isn't that a bit arrogant? I mean why shouldn't they? They are users of OS X after all. The OS is there to make us more productive, not for us to work its way.

[Tsilou B.]

ThinkSecret posts new screenshots from the Leopard Finder, and while Apple hasn't changed much, they changed something (e.g. they added alternating row colors in list view), and they would have had no reason to do this if they had developed a entirely new Finder as many have hoped.
So I believe we can be quite sure now the new Finder that's going to ship with Leopard will have most of the same problems and bugs the current Finder has. What a pity.

[kick52]

you got a link?


edit:

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard WWDC Shots

yay! grid spacing. we cant see anything that new in there yet though...

[jauntyalan]

i think i've read this thread properly and i don't understand how nobody has pointed out the obvious single window way to move files from one folder to the parent. i.e. using LIST view and disclosing triangles to show contents of subfolders.

so if you have a view of the parent folder and open the list of the subfolder in the same window using a discolosing triangle, you then drag an item in the sub folder over a non-folder item in the parent (or over the list headings) and let go.

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by jauntyalan 

i think i've read this thread properly and i don't understand how nobody has pointed out the obvious single window way to move files from one folder to the parent. i.e. using LIST view and disclosing triangles to show contents of subfolders.

so if you have a view of the parent folder and open the list of the subfolder in the same window using a discolosing triangle, you then drag an item in the sub folder over a non-folder item in the parent (or over the list headings) and let go.

All these methods (on OS X Finder) share one thing for me: they need too much conscious thinking or even preparing for what should be really simple. I almost never use Windows, but the ability to cut and paste files would sometimes be really welcome.
Copying to the desktop, though simple enough, is not always option, as I use two partitions here, and would not really enjoy waiting for some 4GB eyetv recording to finish copying twice.

But the one thing that really bugs me: why is Apple not capable of writing a Finder that does not do this:

Image: FTFF1

and even after "nudging" the files shows this:

Image: FTFF2

I don't know how many times I've double-clicked on some file or folder, only to have it disappear from under my cursor (because the Finder suddenly noticed that its modified dates were completely not up-to-date) and then have some other file or folder open. Even the friggin' Winblows Explorer has an "update" button

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by alex_kac 

Not to argue for either side, but isn't that a bit arrogant? I mean why shouldn't they? They are users of OS X after all. The OS is there to make us more productive, not for us to work its way.

You're confused. The issue is not that Apple doesn't want to make its users more productive and force them to work Apple's way. The issue is that Apple can't sit down with every user and implement every single feature they want.

Yes...maybe these features make them more productive. But I could argue that I'm more productive in a text-based CLI so should Apple rewrite all their apps to work in the CLI?

Apple has limited resources. Apple is trying to cater to a majority...not a minority. There are features that will never make the cut...for the benefit of the majority.

We're living in a world full of people. It's selfish little kids like Tomchu that don't understand that sometimes their requests will fall onto deaf ears because they don't reflect the needs of the general population.

You gotta make sacrifices in life. I do. And I don't go around complaining incessantly like tomchu because I understand that maybe most people don't think the same way I do about certain things.

[Chuckit]

I think we should avoid personal attacks here. It's really not that important.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

There's a little button in Explorer called "Up". It takes you to the parent folder.

Well, I remembered to look for it today when I was at work, and bugger me if there isn't a button to do this... only it is a terrible icon to use for it. I had just assumed that it meant "Open a(ny) folder" (which consequently meant I had never clicked it) and not move up a level as that is the universal symbol for opening things (arrow on a folder) in almost every application I've ever used. Ah well, this might just make using Windows marginally less painful...

[sushiism]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

I never use column view. It limits so many other things, while simplifying some. The annoyance to benefit ratio is very disadvantageous to column view.

V

for god sake

cmd+3
drag the file to the parent directory
then cmd+1 or cmd+2 depending on what you prefer




I can't stand the finder browser interface and have all my windows opening in icon view apart from projects which i use list view. But Finder still beats the hell out of explorer or anything on linux.
Its even an awesome app launcher
cmd+shift+a
type the first 3 letters of the app
cmd+down
cmd+w if your quick

I can open things like textedit and calculator lightening fast I'm so used to that

[jauntyalan]

"All these methods (on OS X Finder) share one thing for me: they need too much conscious thinking "

for you. not for me or indeed anyone who has used mac finder for a day (at a guess), i do this without thinking. and the method i describe is not difficult or problematic, its something you do quickly and never have to think about again.

using one system and moving to another always involves a conscious changing of gears. i wouldn't know how to do what i described on a PC, i'd have to think about it and probably get quite frustrated that there aren't simple disclosing triangles for subfolders.

[jauntyalan]

i am floored that anyone could describe moving an item from a disclosed subfolder to the folder above in list view as needing too much conscious thinking! perhaps you haven't tried it - it's a simple drag and drop action. just try it. it's simpler to do than describe.

[monkeybrain]

I think jauntylan has hit the nail on the head here. It requires conscious thinking because you learnt to do it another way. I learnt computers on a Mac. When I use Windows I try and drag stuff around and get frustrated (no spring loaded folders makes it seems so primitive). The situation of wanting cut and paste on the Mac is the same.

Dragging is the more natural way of course (in real life do you 'cut' an object and 'paste' it? No, you pick it open, which is like dragging it). Using column view and list view more is the answer (I never use list view, but use column view all the time - didn't used to, but I've grown to admire how quick it is).

When in Rome...

[fongyuen]

I think monkeybrain is right. i find this thread very interesting cause i'm a recent switcher myself and am slowly learning the ropes around osx. at times i shared tomchu's frustration but i'm open to learning how things are done in osx. can anyone point me to a switcher's guide or faq for things like navigating around and moving folders and stuff? there are a lot of guides that talk about programs, but less (i think) on things like this. thanks.

[bloodshot]

I think what everyone has to realize is that this argument really isn't about what features you like or dislike. This is about Apple's Interface Guidelines. Yes, Apple has been breaking their own guidelines more than I would like the last couple years, but it's these very rules that make Mac OS X superior to windows. Things are consistent on a Mac and actually make sense. Sure, I can see the usefulness of being able to cut and paste a file in the Finder, but it doesn't logically make sense, and to Apple that's the whole point. After working in the IT industry for 15 years managing Macs, Windows, and UNIX boxes i greatly appreciate that Apple actually puts thought into how features work rather than just implementing them. Instead of wanting your Mac to work like Windows, start thinking about the OS logically, it will make a lot more sense.