[nonhuman]

I've mentioned this before a while ago, but we recently bought a new house. Now that we've been in it for a little while I'm getting ready to start in on some home improvement projects. I'm pretty much starting from scratch in building a set of power tools, which is a bit annoying because this is going to get pretty costly, but nice because I can make sure that I've got all good stuff.

My previous experience with power tools (I did tech for the theater department in high school and college, some minor home improvement stuff before, and worked with my grandfather in the fairly awesome wood shop he put together in his basement) inclines me towards DeWalt and Huskie, but I'm open to suggestions. My main concern right now is value and compatibility. I don't want to have to have multiple different charging systems for multiple different kinds of batteries for multiple different brands of tools. Price is an object, but not a huge one as I'm only going to be buying tools one or two at a time as my needs grow for new projects.

My first project is installing a bathroom vent fan, which means I need to get two things:
1. A good screwgun (I've got a cheapo 6v Ryobi, but the battery doesn't even hold a charge and I think I'd be better off upgrading to a better tool than buying a new battery for it), and
2. A saw of some variety (either a jigsaw or a sawzall will work, but I'm leaning towards a sawzall as it will be more versatile).

So, any recommendations?

[nonhuman]

More specifically, does anyone have any experience with Ryobi's One+ series? Brand-wise I'm not really familiar with Ryobi's reputation, but (and this is going to sound stupid) their One+ series includes a string trimmer which is another thing I need to get for the yard...

Edit:
Actually, the fact that you can get a Ryobi One+ combo pack with a reciprocating saw, a circular saw, and a screwgun (and a flashlight!) for $150 at Home Depot leads me to doubt their quality just a tad.

[Rumor]

I was partial to Makita when I did construction.

[sek929]

I know a few guys that swear by Ryobis (18V), they are really cheap, so even if they don't last as long as other brands then who cares?

Personally, we use 12V Panasonic Drill/Drivers. Yeah I know, Panasonic sounds like a cheap TV, but these drills are rock solid and feature 3.0 amp-hour batteries, something I've not seen anywhere else. I've had one battery fail on me, but remember we have had our two Panasonics for almost 10 years now, and they are heavily used tools. We also have an 18V DeWalt drill/driver/hammerdrill that we pull out for more grunty type work like putting in lag bols and such. For a homeowner a 12V should be fine though.

Of course if I was to replace my drill tomorrow I'd take serious consideration at the Hitachi line of 18V Lithium-Ion drill drivers. The 18V LiON battery is TINY, smaller than our 12V NiMH batteries, and the prices were silly at Lowes (89 bucks for an 18V drill/driver, crazy).

Jigsaws are very versatile tools, and so are Sawzalls...but really both tools provide very different functions..I'd get both....but I am a carpenter.

For jigsaws get a Bosch, end of story. I've used every brand of Jigsaw there is, they all cut like crap compared to a Bosch.

For sawzalls get the Milwaukee Super Sawzall, end of story . This is actually more important than my jigsaw recommendation. The Super Sawzall is the Cadillac of sawzalls, and you'd be a fool to buy anything else. We've only had to buy a new sawzall because our old one got stolen. They never die. I am talking about the corded jigsaws and sawzalls here, I have little experience with battery powered sawzalls except for the fact they are anemic and can't cut with the big boys.

[macaddict0001]

Ryobi is sort of the cheapest you can go without getting junk. They offer pretty good value, but personally I would go with something a little more high end. I like the Ridgid and Makita stuff as far as electrics go, Ingersol Rand for air power. Sometimes you can get away with a junk tool for a while. But I definitely wouldn't get anything that requires any degree of precision cheap. It's a real pain when you have to check that the blade is square to the fence on a table saw everytime you adjust it. Same for a mitre saw or anything like that.
I think brands like Dewalt, Milwaukee and especially Festool are overpriced, but the fact remains that they are very good tools. Just maybe not good value. As a homeowner you have to decide how much you are going to be using the tool and what level of performance you expect from it. Don't buy merely based on brand as quality varies from model to model. Hold the tool, see how it feels in your hand. Oh, and if the display model is broken its generally best to consider something else, although display models have to endure a lot of abuse sometimes.
I have found Toolmonger to be a very useful site.
Often a quality used tool can serve you better than a cheap new one for the same price.

[nonhuman]

You use 12V Panasonics on the job? Impressive, definitely wouldn't have guessed that from them. Although neither the Home Depot nor Lowes websites even list them, and the Ace website lists them at about $350... I'll be heading over to our local hardware store (Welcome to Galliher & Huguely) tomorrow morning though, so I'll see what they have.

A jigsaw and a sawzall would be ideal, but for the jobs I've got coming up in the forseeable future (lots of minor demo, and that sort of thing) a sawzall will be much more useful and will handle everything I expect to need it for so I'll just go with that for now. Do you have any experience with/opinions on the factory reconditioned Milwaukee's? Looks like they're about half the price of the new ones, which sounds pretty good to me. I've had good experience with the DeWalt cordless circular saws, but for my needs a corded saw will probably work fine (and be cheaper!).

Now I just need to convince my wife that it's worthwhile to spend the money on quality tools rather than getting the cheap ones...

[downinflames68]

Ryobi, Ridgid, and Milwaukee are all owned by the same brand, with different quality levels and different price points. For what you are doing, I'm SURE you will be happy with Ryobi. If you're going to start doing a lot with any one tool, it's worth it to get a Milwaukee. The money goes into better armatures, better bearings, and stronger gears, with better batteries. Milwaukee's shit kicks ass.

Not that I'm biased or anything.

Panasonic is something that is nice for very precise work, like electricians seem to dig them, but when you need something "robust", Milwaukee is it.

[downinflames68]

Reconditioned Milwaukee stuff is a fantastic deal.

About CPO Milwaukee Reconditioned

1 year warranty on all of it.

Oh, and if you have your heart set on a NEW Milwaukee, ... PM me. I can make some arrangements for you, if you know what I mean.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

You use 12V Panasonics on the job? Impressive, definitely wouldn't have guessed that from them. Although neither the Home Depot nor Lowes websites even list them, and the Ace website lists them at about $350

Yep, heavy work for a solid decade. I wouldn't run a 3" hole saw with it, but it'll drive 1/4" lag screws for 4 hours on a charge. My 12V NiMH drill was 320 bucks when I got it, so they are a pricey drill when you compare them to a Ryobi, but I'll vouch for the quality. Last time I looked at Panasonic, they also had some weird intermediate voltages (15.6V and such), but our 12V drills have plenty of snap.

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

A jigsaw and a sawzall would be ideal, but for the jobs I've got coming up in the forseeable future (lots of minor demo, and that sort of thing) a sawzall will be much more useful and will handle everything I expect to need it for so I'll just go with that for now. Do you have any experience with/opinions on the factory reconditioned Milwaukee's? Looks like they're about half the price of the new ones, which sounds pretty good to me. I've had good experience with the DeWalt cordless circular saws, but for my needs a corded saw will probably work fine (and be cheaper!).

Never bought a factory reconditioned Milwaukee, but I assume they have a high standard like their brand new counterparts. I know a plumber with a solid metal Super Sawzall from the 50s, still works smoothly. We also use the 'Axe' brand blades from Milwaukee for heavy demo, they don't bend and they'll cut through 16 penny nails.

We actually use two 18V DeWalt Circular saws and love them. But if we are doing heavy cutting or ripping all day we use our corded Makita circular saws. I think they run about 160 bucks, and it's way better than some Rigid/Ryobi/DeWalt chintzy POS.

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Now I just need to convince my wife that it's worthwhile to spend the money on quality tools rather than getting the cheap ones...

Honestly, you can't go wrong with any cordless drill for medium duty work these days, but you could pass a Super Sawzall down to your kids...I'm very serious. The batteries in any cordless tool will go south, and really it ends up being cheaper buying a whole new drill set than replacing batteries.

I guess the only tool I'd be adamant about getting new and expensive is the Super Sawzall. If you have demo to do, the Super Sawzall is the tool, no question.

[downinflames68]

I actually picked up a Porter Cable tiger saw, and IMHO it's inferior to the super sawzall, but it has more balls than some of the "normal" sawzalls.

If you don't use tools much, I do NOT think it is worth getting a Milwaukee.

[nonhuman]

Hmm, based on the responses I'm getting I'm almost tempted to get the $150 'starter pack' from Ryobi. It might not be the best sawzall, but it should do for now, and I'll also get the screwgun and a circular saw in the deal. If/when the Ryobi sawzall calls it quits I can get the Milwaukee. Otherwise it looks like I'd be spending at least as much on just a reconditioned Milwaukee sawzall or a screwgun from a 'better' brand. For just the home repair and enhancement stuff I'm planning to do it definitely doesn't seem worthwhile to spend more than $100 or so on any given tool. For the time being, at least, I don't expect to do a whole lot more than install a bathroom vent fan, tear down and rebuild a non-structural wall (it's keeping me from moving the couch into what will eventually become the den), and build some simple furniture (work bench, bathroom cabinet, whatever else I end up needing to work on my bike (bicycle... for now ) in the garage. The more involved work I'll probably end up hiring a contractor for. (I do have a full-time job of my own, afterall!)

[reader50]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

... tear down and rebuild a non-structural wall (it's keeping me from moving the couch into what will eventually become the den)...

Maybe it would be simpler to disassemble the couch, then reassemble in the Den? Tearing the wall down to move the couch would not be my first answer.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Maybe it would be simpler to disassemble the couch, then reassemble in the Den? Tearing the wall down to move the couch would not be my first answer.

In this case, no. The wall is basically a bunch of wooden boards hung on some light framing, no drywall or anything. Tearing it down can probably be accomplished with nothing but a claw hammer, and then when rebuilding it I can put in a larger doorway.

The couch, on the other hand, is a Crate & Barrel sectional. I'm not sure it would be possible to disassemble it without damaging it or ruining the microfiber upholstery.

[Doofy]

Tear a wall down? Here be the power tool for that job:



/got nothin'.

[downinflames68]

I think you'll be happy with the Ryobi kit. It's decent stuff.

[pooka]

I got the ~$200 Ryobi from Homedepot a couple of years ago. 18v Lithium stuff. I was told at the time it was "ok" and "low end" but I've abused the hell out of it and have not had any issues. For cordless gear, it's solid. I've compared it to a buddies Dewalt kit and didn't notice that significant of a difference. It gets the job done and I actually prefer the design of the included drill over some pricier options. The batteries and charger work VERY well and have given me consistent output since the day I bought em. With any of that crap though, using the circular saw or sawzall you won't get much time before the batteries die. Comes in handy if you need to do quick cuts in the parking lot to fit boards in the trunk or small truckbed.

Of course I'm sure any of the "big" name starter kits will give you similar performance. YMMV

For reference I've normally got at least 1-2 projects going all year round. The drill and flashlight get used at least 6 days/month.

[olePigeon]

Does a Dremel count as a power tool? Cuz I've found it to be one of the best investments. It's like Pokemon for nerds, you just wanna collect all the different accessories and bits.

I use it for all sorts of odd jobs. Super handy. It's also the perfect tool for modifying computer cases... or anything, for that matter.

I have the 400 XPR. You can even mount it for use as a small drill press or saw.

[indigoimac]

Originally Posted by pooka 

I got the ~$200 Ryobi from Homedepot a couple of years ago. 18v Lithium stuff. I was told at the time it was "ok" and "low end" but I've abused the hell out of it and have not had any issues. For cordless gear, it's solid. I've compared it to a buddies Dewalt kit and didn't notice that significant of a difference. It gets the job done and I actually prefer the design of the included drill over some pricier options. The batteries and charger work VERY well and have given me consistent output since the day I bought em. With any of that crap though, using the circular saw or sawzall you won't get much time before the batteries die. Comes in handy if you need to do quick cuts in the parking lot to fit boards in the trunk or small truckbed.

Of course I'm sure any of the "big" name starter kits will give you similar performance. YMMV

For reference I've normally got at least 1-2 projects going all year round. The drill and flashlight get used at least 6 days/month.

Same here, it's a solid set for sure. The batteries are especially great.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Does a Dremel count as a power tool? Cuz I've found it to be one of the best investments. It's like Pokemon for nerds, you just wanna collect all the different accessories and bits.

I use it for all sorts of odd jobs. Super handy. It's also the perfect tool for modifying computer cases... or anything, for that matter.

I have the 400 XPR. You can even mount it for use as a small drill press or saw.

The 400 XPR is a great tool. It has proven especially useful especially on small stuff or precision work. Cutting, grinding too. Excellent investment.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

/got nothin'.

Nah, you've got excellent taste in music

[nonhuman]

Well, decided to go with the Ryobi combo pack for right now. Got me a drill, reciprocating saw and circular saw (and flashlight...) all on their 18v ONE+ battery system for $150. It tried just about every combination of tools and brands I could come up with, and I simply couldn't find a better deal that would get me the tools I need right now. Considering the price, as long as the drill lasts a good long time the other tools are basically free so who cares. This will let me do everything I need to do right now, and when I need more/better tools I'll be able to get them without feeling like I'm wasting money. And because the tools are all using Ryobi's 18v ONE+ system, I can actually get replacement Li-Ion batteries pretty cheap if I need to (the kit comes with two NiCad batteries).

All in all, seems like a good deal!

[downinflames68]

NiCads? Ouch. That's why it's $150. I'd start saving up for new batteries.

[Phileas]

You can replace the NiCads with no problem. For non-professional usage, Ryobi is hard to beat. The motors tend to burn out if you're working them too hard, the saws especially suffer from that, but at the price that's fine.

[residentEvil]

my preferences...

delta for stationary tools (table saw, miter saw, drill press, jointer) and porter cable for hand power tools (drills/drivers, sanders, grinders, biscuit cutters, etc).

and now they are the same company, easier shopping and support/maintenance

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

NiCads? Ouch. That's why it's $150. I'd start saving up for new batteries.

$50 for a normal capacity Li-Ion replacement.

NiCad will do for now, and when they die I'll just get Li-Ion.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

my preferences...

delta for stationary tools (table saw, miter saw, drill press, jointer) and porter cable for hand power tools (drills/drivers, sanders, grinders, biscuit cutters, etc).

and now they are the same company, easier shopping and support/maintenance

PC used to be good, but not anymore.

[sek929]

I'll say the same for Delta too. Their miter saws have gotten really chintzy over the years. The only PC tool we use is a brad nailer, very nice tool, but PCs pneumatic stuff has always been good quality.

If you're looking for professional stationary machines then PowerMatic and Jet make some fantastic machines. For jobsite I like Bosch table saws with their integrated stand systems, and Hitachi miter saws.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by sek929 

For jobsite I like Bosch table saws with their integrated stand systems, and Hitachi miter saws.

I'm rocking the Bosch table saw with said stand. Wish I had bought this sooner since coupled with a precision miter, it's replaced 80% of tools. I hate milling.

[sek929]

The Bosch table saw is pretty much universal on jobsites everywhere at this point. Starts smooth, cuts strong, stores easy.

[BadKosh]

A manual drywall saw is a better tool to cut holes in your ceiling.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

A manual drywall saw is a better tool to cut holes in your ceiling.

Less so with lathe and plaster...

[ThinkInsane]

I've always been partial to Dewalt, but for what you're talking about I think the Ryobi will be more than adequate.