[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I can dig that. My argument for picking that game up was that it was awesome. I played the demo and that was it, I had to have it.

If it weren't for the multi this game could go stuff itself. Also, I hate zombies.

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

So, what is your guys' best time in any Survival map? My best is about 5:22 on the Warehouse level. Can't seem to break the 5 minute mark though.

Just under 12 on No Mercy roof.

[Dakar V]

Kotaku - Valve Responds To Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott, Reaffirms Support For Original - Valve

Valve's E3 announcement that Left 4 Dead 2 would hit this year, almost year to the day after the original, has seen a mixed response. Nearly 25,000 fans of the original have pledged not to purchase the sequel. Why?

As outlined in the Left 4 Dead 2 boycott group's manifesto, that group of fans believe that the "stand-alone sequel will split the communities and decrease the quality of multiplayer gaming." Miffed fans believe that the content so far revealed "does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise)" for the original Left 4 Dead.

We asked Valve for a response to those claims.

"Doing a sequel in one year is new for Valve. But providing ongoing support for our titles after the initial launch isn't - it has been part of our philosophy since Half-Life was released ten and half years ago," said Valve president Gabe Newell in a statement to Kotaku. "We see no reason to change that and will continue to support the over three million customers in the L4D community."

"E3 is a trade event where developers and publishers come to announce new games for the coming year. L4D2 — like any new product — requires an appearance at the show," Newell said. "Some in the community are concerned that the announcement of L4D2 implied a change in our plans for L4D1. We aren't changing our plans for L4D1."

Valve says, it will continue to support the original with continued updates.

"In addition to the recently released Survival Pack, we are releasing authoring tools for Mod makers, community matchmaking, 4x4 matchmaking, and more new content during the coming months for L4D1," Newell says. "We also agree with our customers that there needs to be an interoperability plan for players of L4D1 and L4D2, as multiplayer games are driven by the cohesiveness of their community."

So, are they implying they'll be releasing DLC for L4D1 while 2 is out? Because that makes even less sense.

I am curious about the "interoperability" and if it applies to the 360 users.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Just under 12 on No Mercy roof.

Cripes! I stink.

[::maroma::]

If L4D2 wasn't called 2 and instead was a paid DLC, would it make people happy? Is it the $60 price tag that is making people mad? Is it because 2 won't be integrated into 1, being totally separate games? I'm just trying to figure out what exactly gets people so angry about this.

[sek929]

I'm mad it's not a DLC pack AND that it's a full 60 dollars.

[olePigeon]

I read an article the other day about why Valve hasn't ported their games. Initially Valve said that Apple refused to make certain concessions so they couldn't port the game. Then it turned out that the concessions was for Apple to pay Valve $7 million.

So I guess the point I'm getting at is Valve is greedy.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I read an article the other day about why Valve hasn't ported their games. Initially Valve said that Apple refused to make certain concessions so they couldn't port the game. Then it turned out that the concessions was for Apple to pay Valve $7 million.

So I guess the point I'm getting at is Valve is greedy.

Wait, what? When did that information come out? The stories I read said it was technological concessions Valve wanted.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Wait, what? When did that information come out? The stories I read said it was technological concessions Valve wanted.

No, that's what their CEO kept spouting. Turns out Valve wanted $1 million (not $7 million, I read it as 7) upfront just for licensing, with an open ended contract to be negotiated later. No independent publisher is going to do that.

Newell is just a f**king asshat.

The Real Reason Why There's No HL2 For OS X? - HotHardware

When the first Half-Life came out, they had a working version of the game for OS X. The lead developer and his team resigned from Valve after Gabe Newell flat out lied about the game's development. After they quit, the developer posted a reply online about what really happened.

Gabe Newell is just a huge Microsoft fanboy. He just absolutely hates Macs for no apparent reason.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

If L4D2 wasn't called 2 and instead was a paid DLC, would it make people happy? Is it the $60 price tag that is making people mad? Is it because 2 won't be integrated into 1, being totally separate games? I'm just trying to figure out what exactly gets people so angry about this.

It's because they're not supporting the first game as was implied. They could have nickel and dimed us to $60 with 4 separate $15 campaigns, so I don't think money is the key issue.

And yeah, splitting the population blows.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

No, that's what their CEO kept spouting. Turns out Valve wanted $1 million (not $7 million, I read it as 7) upfront just for licensing, with an open ended contract to be negotiated later. No independent publisher is going to do that.

Newell is just a f**king asshat.

The Real Reason Why There's No HL2 For OS X? - HotHardware

When the first Half-Life came out, they had a working version of the game for OS X. The lead developer and his team resigned from Valve after Gabe Newell flat out lied about the game's development. After they quit, the developer posted a reply online about what really happened.

Gabe Newell is just a huge Microsoft fanboy. He just absolutely hates Macs for no apparent reason.

I'm still suspicious, considering the "Apple doesn't put a very high priority on games" story coincided with what I've heard from other game companies as well (even ones working on the Mac). It could be that both stories are true.

[sek929]

To much Fallout 3...

Anyone down for some L4D tonight?

[Dakar V]

L4D or Gears... sure.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Lips or Gears... sure.

Fixed.

[sek929]

Hahha, never get tired of those Lips jokes.

[Stogieman]

I should have posted this pic instead.

[Dakar V]

Boosting that is not as easy as they say.

[chichow]

new updates

[Dakar V]

Exckusive L4D Premium Theme

[chichow]

been playing a bit. up to 3rd campaign.
does get boring single player mode.
need to get my friend to install the $@#$#@ game.
maybe will dip toes into random MP play

[KCrosbie]

Do people actually buy themes? What a waste of $$$!

[Dakar V]

Left 4 Dead DLC announcement by end of summer

Now I'm really confused as to their strategy.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Now I'm really confused as to their strategy.

A company spokesperson also told CVG that about eight or nine months from now, when L4D2 has released and people see the continued support for L4D, they may finally understand the method to the madness.

I guess we're supposed to be confused until L4D2 comes out. That's their strategy... confusion.

[Dakar V]

I have a feeling this they're just buying time to come up with their strategy, since they never imagined all the backlash the sequel announcement would incur.

[::maroma::]

Wouldn't doubt that. 8 or 9 months should be long enough for them to come up with something.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I guess we're supposed to be confused until L4D2 comes out. That's their strategy... confusion.

Our chief weapon is surprise! Surprise and confusion! Our — our two chief weapons are surprise and confusion!

[KCrosbie]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

I have a feeling this they're just buying time to come up with their strategy, since they never imagined all the backlash the sequel announcement would incur.

Seriously, L4D2 has gotten so much crap from the public, I'm not sure what they're thinking. They don't know what to do.

[Dakar V]

Valve Bukkakke!

Valve not so against the idea of the PS3

L4D2 per-orders twice that of original
Surprise!

L4D2 demo coming (duh) pre-orders get masturbatory early access

Interview with some Valve dude

Onto Left 4 Dead 2 specific stuff. Will you be offering Left 4 Dead 1 levels as DLC or installable from the disc for Left 4 Dead 2?

That's something that we're looking at right now. How to marry those communities and how to piece those things together. We've made it so that with the mod tools, if you're making stuff for Left 4 Dead right now, with very little work you'll be able to get it up and running in Left 4 Dead 2 and it's a matter of how all that interfaces and there are a lot of details that we still need to work out. But it's definitely a goal of ours to have cross-operability for those who own both games.

So will there be these finale levels for all the campaigns?

Yeah, absolutely. And then mini finales in the middle. There are at least three in the New Orleans campaign we're showing.

How many levels will there be in the game?

We're able to get more gameplay into a level now, because we've worked on the efficiency of the engine and stuff, so we keep changing the number of levels, but the goal is for each of the campaigns to be the same amount of game time as the originals, if not a little longer. And there'll be five of them versus the four that were in the first.

[chichow]

Anyone want to play this week?
M - Th evenings after 8 pm CST?

Is there a forums group to join?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by chichow 

Anyone want to play this week?
M - Th evenings after 8 pm CST?

Is there a forums group to join?

Nope, this is the right thread. I think everyone has tired of the game, mostly.

[Dakar V]

Hands-on: Left 4 Dead 2

Apparently one of the reasons why L4D2 is a sequel is due to the engine upgrades. In particular -- zombies now fall to pieces. Whether this is worth upgrading the content from a $20 level pack to a $60 boxed copy is down to personal preference, but being able to remove limbs and watch a zombie's rib cage emerge as you shred the flesh from its chest definitely adds a little something extra to the experience. Having said that, when you're in the thick of a mini-finale, surrounded by the undead, the last thing you'll be doing is examining these sorts of details.

As we said during E3, the game plays identically to original. There isn't even a particularly noticeable graphics upgrade, if you ignore the dismemberment improvements. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. A bad game is a bad thing. This is just a good game, made again. With new characters, levels and some new features -- such as melee weapons and special infected.

The campaign plays just like a Left 4 Dead campaign. Bounce from safe room to safe room, avoiding zombies in-between. Valve has changed up the last level of the campaign though -- and this will be true of all campaigns in the game -- by using the last level as a mega-finale. While in Left 4 Dead the last level would usually end with an epic climax, requiring you to defend an area until help arrives, Left 4 Dead 2 will involve "gauntlet" style levels.

. Ultimately, that's one of the most important things Left 4 Dead 2 can do -- remove people from their safety zones. After playing the original for a few months, you begin to see the seams and puppet strings. Like watching your favorite horror movie over and over again, the scares don't scare anymore. If L4D2 can do that again -- have us peeking round every corner and jumping at every noise -- then maybe it will be worth the $60 price tag. We'll see if that's the case when the game launches this November.

Not impressed.

[Chuckit]

What were you hoping for, an economy-based MMORPG?

[Dakar V]

I hoping for one jaw-dropping must-have feature.

[chichow]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Nope, this is the right thread. I think everyone has tired of the game, mostly.

Were you guys beating it on Expert?

I frankly don't know how to kill a tank on expert. BBQ him and just run like hell?

[Dakar V]

No, I don't think anyone here (on the 360) beat it on expert. It's not that it's difficult, its just too uneven. I believe the furthest I got with a decent team was half-way through the second level of no mercy, where we just got sick of it.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by chichow 

Were you guys beating it on Expert?

I frankly don't know how to kill a tank on expert. BBQ him and just run like hell?

Beating a tank is the same on any skill level because the tank's weakness is always the same — it focuses on a single target at a time. They have a horrible time against a team that is spread out. So everybody gets on a different side of the tank and takes turns alternately shooting the hell out of him and dodging when they get aggro.

BBQ and run like hell also works, but is dependent on being able to molotov the tank.

[chichow]

On advanced I was good enough (sometimes I am not that good)

to run around and use buildings to stay ahead of the tank.

But on expert, he was just too fast and would catch up to me and one hit - death. BBQ or no BBQ

[Chuckit]

It's much harder if you don't have four people with some idea of what they're doing. It's really a team effort.

[Dakar V]

It's true, I've never seen a game where a single player can carry you less or bury you more.

[chichow]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

It's true, I've never seen a game where a single player can carry you less or bury you more.

on the boathouse finale for death toll, i played once with this guy who was AMAZING

I mean AMAZING on the mounted gun. It was like he knew every place where the zombies would come out and it was easy..even on advance expert

[Dakar V]

Left 4 Dead 2 Has New Zombies, New Items - Left 4 Dead 2 - Kotaku

Left 4 Dead 2 isn't exactly like Left 4 Dead 1. It's set during the day, for starters. Oh, and it has new zombies. And new items to help you kill those zombies.

One of the new zombies is the "Spitter", who sits back and lobs spit at you. This spit inflicts damage around the point where it lands, sort of like a mortar. Only, made from zombie spit. As you can imagine, its purpose is to split you up, as a well-placed lob into the middle of a group will force you all to scatter, leaving you vulnerable to the zombies.

Another is an all-new type of zombie: the "common-uncommons", as Valve call them. These are specific to each level, with an example being the "mud men", fast, crawling zombies in the Swamp level that sound a lot like the fast zombies from Half-Life 2.

To help you in your fight this time around, GameSpot say that two items - the pills and first aid kitsv- are gone (can this be right?), replaced with ammo packs and adrenaline. Adrenaline works kind of like the old beserk power did in Doom; it stops groups of zombies from slowing you down, and you can go melee crazy, making the most of the sequel's new hand-to-hand weaponry.

Thess, chuckit, are the details I've been looking for. I'm not impressed yet, but I'm not unimpressed either.

[Chuckit]

Interesting.

It looks like there's a big focus on breaking turtles in this one. The Charger already seemed good for that as a mini-tank, and the Spitter is basically an overspecialized counter to that one tactic.

By the way, one of the videos shows the Spitter, but the computer doesn't seem to have its aim quite right yet, so it winds up harmlessly poisoning the ground away from the survivors.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It looks like there's a big focus on breaking turtles in this one.

That's not an unfair thing to do, but it does further alienate me, as my style of play is more strategic and I suffer when rushed. (i.e., if they're trying to make the entire game feel like Survivor mode, that'll be more intense, but not what I'm looking for).

Does seem more appropriate for the entire zombie experience, though.

[Chuckit]

I don't think it necessarily removes the strategic element. Actually, I didn't like how pretty much the only strategy you needed in the first game was "stand in a closet and melee." That's the opposite of a highly strategic game. IMO, it's a mark of poor design for a game to encourage turtling.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I don't think it necessarily removes the strategic element. Actually, I didn't like how pretty much the only strategy you needed in the first game was "stand in a closet and melee."

No, that is garbage for sure, and they helped cure that some by introducing the melee fatigue. But I'm cool with retreating into rooms to create choke points and waiting til everyone heals etc. before moving on. I think they're trying to limit or eliminate that.

Out of curiosity, what's your definition of turtling, exactly?

[Chuckit]

I don't think ducking into a room to heal is going to be hit so bad, at least from what we've seen. When I say turtling, I mean all the survivors huddle up together in a corner and just sit there, essentially unassailable, anytime they need to fight. Normal infected can't hit you, and special infected can't damage you because a melee breaks all their attacks before they do any damage. The elevator crescendo in No Mercy is the best example of what cheap crap this is — you're theoretically being attacked relentlessly from all around, but in practice you'll never take any damage there at all unless you're completely braindead. By weakening that strategy, they can make other tactics viable.

[Dakar V]

Yeah, that's pretty extreme. I'm afraid they might go as extreme as the lighthouse map, where you can't even hide in the house because every damn wall breaks.

[Chuckit]

There's actually a safe corner in the lighthouse too. The real problem is that you can't hold any position against a tank, and they start spawning fast and furious after a few minutes in survival mode. If not for the tank forcing you to expose yourself to all the other infected, you could hold the lighthouse pretty easily.

BTW, Comic-Con starts tomorrow and they're going to have L4D2 set up to play there. Assuming the line isn't obscenely long, y'all can expect a hands-on report.

[Dakar V]

Left 4 Dead 2 Has Bulletproof Zombies Too - Left 4 Dead - Kotaku

Similar to the hazmat suit-wearing infected that are immune to incendiary fire, a new, mostly bulletproof infected will join the mix in The Parish. Seems a few riot police wearing full gear couldn't escape the zombie apocalypse, making the escape a little harder for Coach, Ellis, Nick and Rochelle.

These kevlar wearing infected can only be killed from behind, making it especially difficult if two are bearing down on your character. A quick melee hit will stun them, even knocking them down and exposing their posteriors. But as they charge you, unloading a full clip on their fronts will essentially do nothing.

Left 4 Dead 2 "Swamp Fever" Hands-On Impressions - Left 4 Dead 2 - Kotaku

Overall, the game is starting to feel like a more unique experience thanks to these additions, something hesitant Left 4 Dead 2 fans will probably welcome. We're happy to see the game get more gameplay set during nighttime. Combined with the foggy, natural environments, Swamp Fever adds a very creepy atmosphere to the more brightly lit episode, The Parish.

[KCrosbie]

Like I said earlier. I'll buy it if everyone else does.

[KCrosbie]

Courtesy of Ain't It Cool News reporting from Comic-Con '09

I also got the chance to play a full level of LEFT 4 DEAD 2 earlier in the day and that was a lot of fun.





The level was called Swamp Fever and the terrain was what you’d expect from a level called Swamp Fever… broken down shacks, swampy water and lots of dead ****ers attacking you.

The Tanks are now different, overall wearing hulks called Chargers that are easier to kill, but are faster and ram the hell out of you and your team. There are also new zombie types, including what is called a Mud Man, a zombie that lives in the swamps and when lying down is almost indistinguishable from its surroundings. When he gets up and hits you it muddies up your view.

There’s also a Spitter who spews Napalm-like fire out, usually right in your path.





Of course you also have the regular zombies, Boomers, Hunters, Witches and Smokers.

The big deal with this sequel is that you can pick up melee items. Everyone I played with loved the axe, which is gruesome and is a one-hit kill on most zombies. Gotta love the ability to hit a button and send an undead arm flying off or split its head off from its body. There was also a frying pan, which seemed to disorientate the zombies and a Shaun of the Dead nod: a cricket bat.

Oh, and the pistols still have unlimited ammo, which made me happy. I thought they were going to take that away when they gave us the melee weapons (which do not deteriorate, but you have to drop them when you want to use your guns).

Did I mention you can find a grenade launcher now? And ammo upgrades (I never got the launcher, but the incendiary shotgun round is total ****ing destruction as they’d say in the talkback.

Overall, it felt more like an expansion pack to the original LEFT 4 DEAD, but whatever. I loved the balance of the gameplay of the original game and give me some new locations (love the Deep South/Louisiana setting), new characters, some fun new zombies and masses of undead to lay waste to and I’m happy. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, right?