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epluth · Dec 24, 2007, 03:51 PM

I've got an old G4 gigabit ethernet 400mhz tower that I'd like to max out and get a better video experience through. Although cable television is superb, streaming/net vids are lacking. I've purchased a 20" cinema to replace my old 17" tube. I then needed to buy a Radeon 9000 pro (if I'm not mistaken, and it upped video mem from 16 to 64) to hook it up. In my 4 mem slots, I have 2 64s and 2 512s.

Problem: some video is choppy, like, say from youtube (video only), or msnbc news (both video and audio). Internet connection is 5G (just under 4 actual)

I've considered newer technology and/or sonnet processor upgrades. Could anyone shed a bit of light? Is it possible to breathe new life into this thing with one of these?

Thanks and happy holidays-

cgc · Dec 24, 2007, 04:31 PM

I've got an old Sawtooth G4 Tower (400MHz original) and upgraded the memory, hard drive, cd drive, video card, and CPU (and added a Zip 250 drive). As long as you're not trying to run new games I think a CPU upgrade is all you need. Check out Accelerate Your Macintosh! G4 CPU Upgrade Reviews

I think a 7448 G4 is best (I could be wrong). OtherWorldComputing has lots to pick from...I wouldn't get a dual CPU and would opt for a fast single G4 if I had to choose.

epluth · Dec 24, 2007, 05:10 PM

Thanks. Yeah, I forgot to mention a few added things like a super drive... etc, but I figured it was either the video card or the bottleneck of the processor.

I'll most likely try a 1.6 or a 1.8 sonnet encore. I just hope it actually shows some significant improvement. (I never game, its for internet, movies, and graphics)

SierraDragon · Dec 25, 2007, 02:55 AM

IMO putting money - even a dollar - into a 400 MHz G4 box is inappropriate. Investing in MacIntels makes much more sense in every regard. In every regard.

Any MacIntel, cheapest eBay or whatever, will run circles around a G4, accept modern apps, etc.

-Allen Wicks

Big Mac · Dec 25, 2007, 03:13 AM

Yeah, but some people like their real Macs; RAM and hard drives are cheap.

Jesus On Cheese · Dec 25, 2007, 03:40 AM

If you've got money to burn, get a dual 1.8GHz 7448 G4 upgrade card. If you don't have so much money, then a 1.6GHz 7447a is pretty cheap. Max the memory to 2GB.

Also, you can try faster graohics card, like 9700 or 9800, and even a faster hard drive.

Bwa · Dec 25, 2007, 10:17 AM

Buy a new(er) Mac. If you really want a G4 (who knows why), get the MDD model. Faster bus and significantly faster ATA (and space for 4 drives).

epluth · Dec 25, 2007, 10:55 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. But I have no intention in buying something I already have. Thats several thousand dollars that I cannot spend. I simply want to know the correct way to max my machine out (Ram, and processor).

I've been told I have to buy 2 sticks of 256 to replace my 2 64s (I have 2 512s already) to get 1.5 gig. Is that right? Cant I just lose the 2 64s and throw a 512 in? And as far as my machine goes, its pretty solid for a machine built in 99 (00).

My upgrades to date:
superdrive
miglia tv card
internal 4 port usb card
1.12 gig ram (max 1.5g)
Radeon9000pro for 20" panel connection

My goal is to smooth out the streaming videos. I was afraid that it was my video card, but more and more people are saying processor. And it seems the Newer Technology/OWC processors are more popular than the Sonnets. I might have answered my own question here. Thoughts?

oh, and Merry Xmas!

ninahagen · Dec 25, 2007, 12:44 PM

How much have you spent on upgrades so far? (not including the monitor).

How much will you spend on other items? (CPU, etc.)

It might be useful for some other users to see the alternative to buying a new mini, what the pros and cons are.

As big mac said, some folks are really attached to their power macs (we use a G5 quad 2.5), and it

would be heartening to hear that for small money they could radically upgrade their golden oldies.

So, could you just outline your costs, actual and projected?

epluth · Dec 25, 2007, 01:18 PM

I really dont remember what I gave for all of the upgrades, but I am looking at $229 to bump the processor from 400 to 1.6. That will most likely be the last thing I do for a couple years until she is obsolete.

Do you really think an entry model mini will compete with this thing as far as internet, video streaming, graphics, and some animation? The other reason I am hesitant to move over to one is that I have extras on this one already. (cable tv, handfuls of ports, ram) Other than not supporting core image, and maybe a few extra things in leopard, this thing is a decent workhorse.

Main reason is, I'm just (very) tired of certain choppy video formats on the web. ie. most recently, msnbc-meet the press, I have no idea what format it is, but it is horrible.

ninahagen · Dec 25, 2007, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by epluth

I really dont remember what I gave for all of the upgrades, but I am looking at $229 to bump the processor from 400 to 1.6. That will most likely be the last thing I do for a couple years until she is obsolete.

Do you really think an entry model mini will compete with this thing as far as internet, video streaming, graphics, and some animation? The other reason I am hesitant to move over to one is that I have extras on this one already. (cable tv, handfuls of ports, ram) Other than not supporting core image, and maybe a few extra things in leopard, this thing is a decent workhorse.

Main reason is, I'm just (very) tired of certain choppy video formats on the web. ie. most recently, msnbc-meet the press, I have no idea what format it is, but it is horrible.

Well, lots of people are attached as I said. But if you are not sentimental (which is a totally understandable and valid reason), the mac mini will run rings around your machine... MSNBC with no glitches, that is certain. Check of the Photoshop speed test link for a quick snap. The first machine listed (a 1Ghz G4, much faster than yours) ran the test in around 15 minutes. The second machine, which is not as fast the new minis, ran it in about a minute. If you sell off your machine for $125, and add the $229 you are thinking of spending on a processor, you have $350 toward a mac mini. That is most of the money. Worth weighing I think. On the other hand, my wife will not let her 1999 tangerine iBook G3 go. It has tiger installed, and is a good backup for her G4. It actually saved us on her doctoral thesis when our other machine had a meltdown. (plus it is so cute).

Bwa · Dec 25, 2007, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by epluth

Thanks for the suggestions. But I have no intention in buying something I already have. Thats several thousand dollars that I cannot spend. I simply want to know the correct way to max my machine out (Ram, and processor).

G4 MDD would likely only be $350 or so, maybe less. Used G5s are cheap. G4 minis or first gen Intel iMacs are cheap (I decided not to try to get $650 for my 2 GB Intel Core Duo and just give it to my mom instead).

There's just no reason to spend money on a 400 MHz box at this point. It's nearly 10 years old. Get something more recent with the money instead of wasting it on a box that will never have a a faster memory bus, faster PCI bus, a faster AGP bus (can you even physically fit the 9000 Radeon into a 400 MHz G4? I don't think so--different versions of AGP had different physical connectors).

ronss · Dec 27, 2007, 04:02 AM

i bought a mdd g4 a while back,,it was $340 plus shipping.. it had dual 867 and 64mg nvidia card....and 1 gb ram...it was pretty cheap i thought, and the mdd,s are bringing a premium for some reason..espicially the dual 1.25,s and faster.

after i got mine,,i adding 500mg of ram for a total of 1.5gb,,,and then added the 9800 pro...made quite a bit of difference... i just love my rig,,and for a total of $480. i stated out with a g3,,and this mdd is like light years ahead of it,, and is very quick ...i can,t imagine what a quad g5 would be like with a high end video card.....but i am very happy with my rig, and will have it till the g5,s come down some.

Richams · Dec 27, 2007, 04:46 AM

My G-4 works fine for my needs; except for one very LARGE problem. I can't download anything like for instance 10.4 upgrades. I'm often reminded that my start up disc is full and I should eliminate things on it. First, I can't find anything on it; and, second i don't really know where to look. Any suggestions appreciated.

Simon · Dec 27, 2007, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Richams

My G-4 works fine for my needs; except for one very LARGE problem. I can't download anything like for instance 10.4 upgrades. I'm often reminded that my start up disc is full and I should eliminate things on it. First, I can't find anything on it; and, second i don't really know where to look. Any suggestions appreciated.

WhatSize (used to be free, now it's $13 ???) will help you find out what's using up your disk space.

SierraDragon · Dec 28, 2007, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by epluth

Do you really think an entry model mini will compete with this thing as far as internet, video streaming, graphics, and some animation?

Yes. Any MacIntel is far superior in every way.

-Allen Wicks

Theodour · Dec 30, 2007, 11:41 AM

Hey,
If you opt to upgrade the CPU, go with a 7448-based card vs. the 7447a models. Also, see if you can get a quartz extreme capable video card, like the 9600, 9800, or a mutant GeForce 6200.
That should keep you in the future for a while.

Theodour · Dec 30, 2007, 11:43 AM

Also, and even better, you can use the GeForce 7800.

MichiganRich · Dec 30, 2007, 10:02 PM

You are all delusional (except for SierraDragon who is delusional regarding other topics), and I find it comical. Please continue to waste - pardon, I mean spend your money on the old machines, so I can come here and have a laugh.

I mean, come on.... read some benchmarks for pete's sake.

DewD · Dec 31, 2007, 12:14 AM

BUT--------you cannot speed up the Bus. Mother board running a 100mhz or 133 mhz bus is a choker, no matter how fast the processor or available RAM. And PCI cards only run at 33 mhz or 64 mhz.

ninahagen · 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by MichiganRich

I mean, come on.... read some benchmarks for pete's sake.

He has a point.

There is only one valid reason for optimizing such an oldie. Sentimentality. Some people get attached to their cars, blenders, toasters and computers from yesteryear for emotional/aesthetic/tinkering reasons. Some people just can't get enough of the old Cube or colored iBooks. No problem, I get it.

All other reasons are pure bull. The G4 in question is SUCH a clunker. The original poster has already spent hundereds of $$$ on it, and is contemplating spending hundreds more, with the encouragement of several members of the Flat Earth Society. By the time he is done, he will have put in enough to buy a perfectly fine intel mac mini (or at least a refurb).

Let's be clear: In Photoshop, which we know intimately, a 2.0 Ghz intel mini would be a minimum of 20 times faster in most any operation. In the PS speed test minis are coming in at around 40 seconds, while a much more modern 1Ghz G4s run 15 minutes, 900 seconds, more than 20 times slower. A G4 like the OP has, even optimized, would probably come in at least double that, 1800 seconds, nearly 50 times slower, and I would bet closer to 100 times. (that is presuming it could even run the test without freezing).

And we are talking about roughly the same money here.

In graphics, computational speed, software & peripheral compatibility, lifespan, streaming, upkeep cost, space occupied, bus speed, video capabilty, any intel mini just scorches this G4. Toast.

Until you have used a modern machine, you just cannot fathom the difference. If you have some emotional bond to your G4, by all means keep it and enjoy the tinkering, if not, do yourself a favor and JUST LISTEN to us!

OreoCookie · Dec 31, 2007, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by epluth

Do you really think an entry model mini will compete with this thing as far as internet, video streaming, graphics, and some animation?

Yes, it will destroy your current Mac in any of these. Literally, destroy.
The only discipline your Mac could be faster is storage if (and only if) you have upgraded it with a semi-recent harddrive. The reason is that the Mac mini uses a notebook drive.

If you buy a new Mac mini (or a used Intel-based iMac), you'll be much, much better off. Plus, you'd get the latest software with it.

krillbee · Jan 9, 2008, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Yes, it will destroy your current Mac in any of these. Literally, destroy.
The only discipline your Mac could be faster is storage if (and only if) you have upgraded it with a semi-recent harddrive. The reason is that the Mac mini uses a notebook drive.

If you buy a new Mac mini (or a used Intel-based iMac), you'll be much, much better off. Plus, you'd get the latest software with it.

One could create a franken mac, and hack their intel mac mini up and mount it into a regular cpu case, with bigger drives attached

hookemdano · Jan 9, 2008, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by ronss

i bought a mdd g4 a while back,,it was $340 plus shipping.. it had dual 867 and 64mg nvidia card....and 1 gb ram...it was pretty cheap i thought, and the mdd,s are bringing a premium for some reason..espicially the dual 1.25,s and faster.

after i got mine,,i adding 500mg of ram for a total of 1.5gb,,,and then added the 9800 pro...made quite a bit of difference... i just love my rig,,and for a total of $480. i stated out with a g3,,and this mdd is like light years ahead of it,, and is very quick ...i can,t imagine what a quad g5 would be like with a high end video card.....but i am very happy with my rig, and will have it till the g5,s come down some.

I'm just chugging along with my G4 MDD 1ghz with a stock 64MB video card and 768MB ram. I've seen many posts and I'm not ready to choose between an Imac or MacPro (for dollars and sense). I just need a little more performance and leaning towards a 9800 mac pro video card and another gig of ram from OWC. Could this be a fair choice to get a better performance for the buck? My thanks in advance.