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Hawkeye_a · May 3, 2006, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Maybe MS _DID_ the research. Ever think of that?

Yeah i did think of that, until i realized that the hardware was based off previous generation designs (N64, PS1, PC) with beefier components. the software was based on genres off previous gen platforms, and the controller was based off of previous designs of controllers...their online offerings were based on what was already on PCs and Macs. Here's the point...there was nothing "new" about it. Research isnt dismantling other companie's products and reassembling them with different components.

As far as media center stuff, i might agree that they are "innovating"...but we're talking about purely gaming here.

Cheers

Hawkeye_a · May 3, 2006, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

You mean Xerox?

While Mario games rock, it's hard to deny that the GameCube is deficient in many ways. I just hope for our sake and for Nintendo's sake that Wii doesn't follow in the GameCube's footsteps. The new controller seems interesting, but the lack of HD support is really quite disappointing.

It's not a deal killer of course, but only if Wii is very inexpensive (which is what they're aiming for I presume).

Actually, no i didnt mean Xerox. they came up with the idea for GUIs... but Apple took that and defined a GUI for consumers...icons, trash, menubars, title bars, document based apps, etc...and the fact that many of those researchers from PARC were absorbed into Apple anyway.

Gamecube's deficiencies are only in the realm of storage and online (but yeah the PS2 has the same online capabilities and look at the way it sold).

The lack of HD is disappointing (to some) but the strides they have taken elsewhere in the Wii's design more than make up for that. HD is inevitable and they can easily include it 2-3 years down the track if they want to. if by SWG's and yours estimates, HD does become as commonplace as you predict that quickly, i dont see any reason why the prices wont fall and Nintendo including it eventually.

Mario rocks.. sure...so does Zelda, Metroid, etc,etc... and now you have a whole bunch of exclusives and other titles you'll *only* be able to experience on the Wii.

So yeah..it isnt about marketshare or profits imo. it's about making a compelling product. which mario has been in so many titles..every iteration has something new in it, as do the Zelda and Metroid games....with the Wii...they will all once again evolve and change. and on that note, what have Microsoft and Sony changed/improved in their offerings apart from HD support ?

Eug Wanker · May 3, 2006, 11:44 PM

The lack of HD is disappointing (to some) but the strides they have taken elsewhere in the Wii's design more than make up for that. HD is inevitable and they can easily include it 2-3 years down the track if they want to. if by SWG's and yours estimates, HD does become as commonplace as you predict that quickly, i dont see any reason why the prices wont fall and Nintendo including it eventually.

No. Once Wii is released with 480p, it's stuck with 480p.

Mario rocks.. sure...so does Zelda, Metroid, etc,etc... and now you have a whole bunch of exclusives and other titles you'll *only* be able to experience on the Wii.

The only things that really interest me are the old Mario games.

And given that the latest Mario games seem to be rehashes of rehashes, I'm starting to wonder if I might just be better off just buying a GameCube for Mario games.

Yeah, Project Gotham Racing 3 on the Xbox 360 is a rehash of older Project Gotham Racing games in a sense too, but the online support is impressive, and the graphics just rock.

However, we're just speculating at this point. I look forward to E3.

ink · May 4, 2006, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

And given that the latest Mario games seem to be rehashes of rehashes, I'm starting to wonder if I might just be better off just buying a GameCube for Mario games.

The GBA has the best selection of Mario games, IMHO; although Paper Mario and Mario Kart are pretty good on the GCN.

I couldn't make it through Mario Sunshine; it was annoying.

I still play the PS2 much more than the other systems (Kindom Hearts 2 right now -- and luvin' it). I haven't bought a 360 yet, as there have been no titles that pique my interest.

The Wii better have a killer title, like Metroid Prime was on the GCN, or Mario 64 on the N; otherwise, it will be the last Nintendo console. And, if you think about it, there's no reason that Nintendo couldn't have released all those "killer" 1st party games for PS2 or X-Box.

goMac · May 4, 2006, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

No. Once Wii is released with 480p, it's stuck with 480p.

It depends on how they implement things. You won't see higher resolution textures, but they could at a later date beef up the console to handle higher resolutions. I find it very hard to belief that Gamecube software is clock dependent. Even the XBox was given faster hardware later in it's lifespan.

Hal06 · May 4, 2006, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

do they still make nintendos?

Yeah, maybe you have heard about the DS handled system …

Hal06 · May 4, 2006, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by ink

And, if you think about it, there's no reason that Nintendo couldn't have released all those "killer" 1st party games for PS2 or X-Box.

goMac · May 4, 2006, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Inside Man

Yeah, maybe you have heard about the DS handled system …

What a fanboy. The PSP is completely beating the DS in Portugal... or something... Therefore, Nintendo fails. At everything. The only people who buy the DS are little kids who just want to play Pokemon, and Nintendogs, and both games insult me just by existing for the DS. Furthermore, no one will buy Nintendo's new control scheme for the Wii. Nobody wants to move their arms anymore. And who wants a virtual console? No one wants to play the old games anymore. I already beat all the classics last week on my PSP. All the Wii will do is become a failure like the DS and sell a bunch of units and make money for Nintendo, while the other console companies sell their hardware at a loss and bleed money.

I predict Nintendo will go bankrupt soon. Who'd buy a console from a company that's going to go bankrupt?

Hal06 · May 4, 2006, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Who'd buy a console from a company that's going to go bankrupt?

OK, we all better get "Giggles Baby" for our computers

http://www.giggles.net/home.php

starman · May 4, 2006, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Mario rocks.. sure...so does Zelda, Metroid, etc,etc... and now you have a whole bunch of exclusives and other titles you'll *only* be able to experience on the Wii.

Ever wonder where Nintendo would be WITHOUT those franchises? Think about THAT.

meelk · May 4, 2006, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by ink

The Wii better have a killer title, like Metroid Prime was on the GCN, or Mario 64 on the N; otherwise, it will be the last Nintendo console.

uhh. no. I hate to hear people say stupid crap like that. Nintendo has had one down *quarter ever in its history*. They make the most pure profit of any of the video game companies *every year*. They arent going anywhere. Debt free with about 10 billion in the bank. They made more profit last year than each of the previous four.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=7930

meelk · May 4, 2006, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Ever wonder where Nintendo would be WITHOUT those franchises? Think about THAT.

the same place any company would be without its key franchises? what kind of moronic statement is that? "where would disney be without mickey, etc" "where would mcdonalds be without hamburgers"

christ, get a grip.

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Ever wonder where Nintendo would be WITHOUT those franchises? Think about THAT.

Think about where Microsoft would be without all that money ? lol

huh...fact is, Nintendo came up withose franchizes, and they's using em. truth be told, i dont have to imagine what they would be without em...cause frankly, in the realm of "reality" (which you love so much) it doesnt matter what they would be without them.

So immaginative and creative character's generating business for Nintendo, versus money from other products fueling a backwards console. ill take my side with the artists thank you, ill leave you with the sharks.

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by meelk

christ, get a grip.

No kidding....talk about grabbing at straws to diss Nintendo. sheesh

starman · May 4, 2006, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Think about where Microsoft would be without all that money ? lol

huh...fact is, Nintendo came up withose franchizes, and they's using em. truth be told, i dont have to imagine what they would be without em...cause frankly, in the realm of "reality" (which you love so much) it doesnt matter what they would be without them.

My point is that if you remove the franchise titles, they're a crappy console with bad ports. It's the franchises alone that are keeping the company afloat. Good for them, because Sega couldn't do it. I'm just saying that there could come a time when people just don't care about Yet Another Mario.

meelk · May 4, 2006, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by starman

My point is that if you remove the franchise titles, they're a crappy console with bad ports. It's the franchises alone that are keeping the company afloat. Good for them, because Sega couldn't do it. I'm just saying that there could come a time when people just don't care about Yet Another Mario.

Oh please.
1)People who buy Nintendo consoles ONLY buy them for the Nintendo franchises. Everyone knows this, why you want to pretend to ignore it is beyond me. Its been this way for a good while now.
2)Look at the same situation on the PS/2/3. You have key titles like GTA, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy etc that MUST come out.
3)As long as Nintendo keeps mixing up gameplay and introducing new concepts, which they do I dont see a time where people will not care about 'Yet Another Mario'.

Hal06 · May 4, 2006, 09:28 AM

Ever wonder where Nintendo would be WITHOUT those franchises? Think about THAT.

Certain people ask for criticism, but the last thing they want is to give any praise.

Eug Wanker · May 4, 2006, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

It depends on how they implement things. You won't see higher resolution textures, but they could at a later date beef up the console to handle higher resolutions.

Except if that happened, the games will still be 480p. 480p upscaled to 720p is not 720p.

BTW, Project Gotham Racing 3 is the one exception on the Xbox 360 that is not true 720p (or higher). It's only 1024x600p (with AA), upscaled, but it still looks a heluvalot better than 480p. It should, since it's got 78% more pixels than 720x480p.

starman · May 4, 2006, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by meelk

Oh please.
1)People who buy Nintendo consoles ONLY buy them for the Nintendo franchises. Everyone knows this, why you want to pretend to ignore it is beyond me. Its been this way for a good while now.

So you admit that it's not about the hardware.

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 10:29 AM

Ummmm .... have a look at the E3'05 presentations. one comany was talking GFLOPS, cores, Mhz and resolutions. Another was talking about gameplay and games.

It's never been juat about the hardware to Nintendo. the hardware SHOULD just be the medium or platform for creativity that leads to great games and gameplay.

Hmm.... i guess in essence that's what sets Nintendo apart. they are about the games, for XB360 and PS3, it's the other way around. i guess nerds with no lives need something to brag about lol.

But yeah....i think we've figured it out...Nintendo designs it's hardware around the software it imagines. Sony and Microsoft just offer beefed up hardware and expect the games and gameplay of old genres to fall into place.

starman · May 4, 2006, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Ummmm .... have a look at the E3'05 presentations. one comany was talking GFLOPS, cores, Mhz and resolutions. Another was talking about gameplay and games.

It's never been juat about the hardware to Nintendo. the hardware SHOULD just be the medium or platform for creativity that leads to great games and gameplay.

Hmm.... i guess in essence that's what sets Nintendo apart. they are about the games, for XB360 and PS3, it's the other way around. i guess nerds with no lives need something to brag about lol.

But yeah....i think we've figured it out...Nintendo designs it's hardware around the software it imagines. Sony and Microsoft just offer beefed up hardware and expect the games and gameplay of old genres to fall into place.

And yet Nintendo's in third place. Poor Nintendo.

meelk · May 4, 2006, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by starman

And yet Nintendo's in third place. Poor Nintendo.

and first in profit.
its a business: profit > mindshare.

meelk · May 4, 2006, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by starman

So you admit that it's not about the hardware.

I never said it was. Nintendo is going to bring out a machine that costs roughly half as much as its competition. How could it possibly be about hardware? That said, if this is some kind of stupid maneuvering to include the wii-mote in "hardware" then jump on me, dont act stupid. The wii-mote is some damn nice stuff.

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 10:54 AM

So anyways....

A couple concept shots/screenshots or something or the other from Nibris, the Polish developer developing Sadness, a black & white game for the Wii(exclusive)...

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/sadness1.jpg

http://www.revolutionreport.net/media/articles/92.jpg

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/sadness2.jpg

(source: http://www.revolutionreport.com/articles/read/417 )

This game looks promicing.

Cheers

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by starman

And yet Nintendo's in third place. Poor Nintendo.

really ? So GameCube + GameBoy Advance + NDS hardware sales put it in third place ?....

ohhhhh..... i guess you mean software.....oh cant be, because Nintendo announced a year ago it had sold over 2 billion of its own software titles alone in it's history, at which time Sony announced that it had sold a total of 2 billion software units of every game ever made for it's PS consoles.

ohhhh, you might mean profit.....oh that cant be it either cause last i checked Nintendo made the most profit this last round, with Sony just scraping through and Microsoft still loosing money on every console it sells.

So is there like a hidden benchmark your using to measure the success of XB360 and Sony ? ohhhhhi get it now....their consoles have more cores and higher resolutions...oh ok...i rest my case, you got a point there.

Grow up.

starman · May 4, 2006, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

really ? So GameCube + GameBoy Advance + NDS hardware sales put it in third place ?....

ohhhhh..... i guess you mean software.....oh cant be, because Nintendo announced a year ago it had sold over 2 billion of its own software titles alone in it's history, at which time Sony announced that it had sold a total of 2 billion software units of every game ever made for it's PS consoles.

ohhhh, you might mean profit.....oh that cant be it either cause last i checked Nintendo made the most profit this last round, with Sony just scraping through and Microsoft still loosing money on every console it sells.

So is there like a hidden benchmark your using to measure the success of XB360 and Sony ? ohhhhhi get it now....their consoles have more cores and higher resolutions...oh ok...i rest my case, you got a point there.

Grow up.

Funny how you left out market share.

goMac · May 4, 2006, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Except if that happened, the games will still be 480p. 480p upscaled to 720p is not 720p.

BTW, Project Gotham Racing 3 is the one exception on the Xbox 360 that is not true 720p (or higher). It's only 1024x600p (with AA), upscaled, but it still looks a heluvalot better than 480p. It should, since it's got 78% more pixels than 720x480p.

Nono, just like a computer game you could output at a higher resolution with the same textures.

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Funny how you left out market share.

i didnt.

So GameCube + GameBoy Advance + NDS hardware sales put it in third place ?....

More ppl have more Nintendo hardware and software in their homes than any other company's.

starman · May 4, 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

i didnt.

More ppl have more Nintendo hardware and software in their homes than any other company's.

Typical fanboy. Adding THREE platforms together and saying that N has the most hardware. Give me a break.

goMac · May 4, 2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Typical fanboy. Adding THREE platforms together and saying that N has the most hardware. Give me a break.

I know. What a fanboy. Companies should never be evaluated on total hardware sales.

Eug Wanker · May 4, 2006, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Nono, just like a computer game you could output at a higher resolution with the same textures.

Console games are not the same thing as computer games. If the hardware has been finalized at 480p, then the games are built for 480p. Why would a game company bother wasting all that time optimizing for 720p if the console can't even support it? Saying that they might consider a 720p hardware update in 2 years time is not a good enough reason.

starman · May 4, 2006, 12:33 PM

What's your source for those numbers, or did you pull them out of your ass?

goMac · May 4, 2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Console games are not the same thing as computer games. If the hardware has been finalized at 480p, then the games are built for 480p. Why would a game company bother wasting all that time optimizing for 720p if the console can't even support it? Saying that they might consider a 720p hardware update in 2 years time is not a good enough reason.

Because they could upgrade the hardware later and force games to output at 720p. The game companies wouldn't be optimizing for 720p. All Nintendo does is someday release a new Wii with faster hardware that can handle 720p, and force all the games to display at 720p. The games won't have HD textures, but they'll still be in a higher resolution.

Eug Wanker · May 4, 2006, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Because they could upgrade the hardware later and force games to output at 720p. The game companies wouldn't be optimizing for 720p. All Nintendo does is someday release a new Wii with faster hardware that can handle 720p, and force all the games to display at 720p. The games won't have HD textures, but they'll still be in a higher resolution.

Not gonna happen. And even if it did, you'd probably just be upscaling most of the time. Not a very good solution.

Dark Helmet · May 4, 2006, 02:00 PM

OMG the Wii name is for real!

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/04/wi...aysayers-wiip/

Dark Helmet · May 4, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Typical fanboy. Adding THREE platforms together and saying that N has the most hardware. Give me a break.

Apple has a 80% marketshare if you include iPods

starman · May 4, 2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Apple has a 80% marketshare if you include iPods

/rimshot

Dark Helmet · May 4, 2006, 03:12 PM

This must be the lamest marketing attempt EVER!

Well next to The little orphan Annie fan club from the Christmas Story

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/04/co...-nintendo-com/

goMac · May 4, 2006, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

This must be the lamest marketing attempt EVER!

Well next to The little orphan Annie fan club from the Christmas Story

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/04/co...-nintendo-com/

Yeah, what's up with Nintendo's marketing department? The Wii name is just stupid and embarrassing. I mean, when I ask girls back to my place to play on my Sony Playstation, they fall to the ground and experience simultaneous pleasure over every part of their body at the word "Playstation". With Nintendo, I have to ask a girl back to my place to play with my Wii, and we all know I'm never going to pick up girls that way.

Look at Sony's marketing department! They have squirrel ads. They tell us how the Playstation will render Toy Story in real time, and how it will be just like the Matrix. Nintendo should learn a few things from them.

I just wish all the stupid Nintendo fanboys would stay in the Nintendo threads where they belong.

Dark Helmet · May 4, 2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Yeah, what's up with Nintendo's marketing department? The Wii name is just stupid and embarrassing.

"HOWDY PARDNERS WAY TO CRACK THE CODE BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT TO FIND OUT ABOUT WII WONT YOU."

meelk · May 4, 2006, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

So anyways....

A couple concept shots/screenshots or something or the other from Nibris, the Polish developer developing Sadness, a black & white game for the Wii(exclusive)...

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/sadness1.jpg

http://www.revolutionreport.net/media/articles/92.jpg

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/sadness2.jpg

(source: http://www.revolutionreport.com/articles/read/417 )

This game looks promicing.

Cheers

I've heard this company doesnt even have a dev. kit.

meelk · May 4, 2006, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Funny how you left out market share.

because market share is MEANINGLESS unless you are MAKING A LOT OF PROFIT.

meelk · May 4, 2006, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

OMG the Wii name is for real!

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/04/wi...aysayers-wiip/

why would this suprise you? Nintendo doesnt resort to sh*t like putting out a name and switching it. they never have.

goMac · May 4, 2006, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

"HOWDY PARDNERS WAY TO CRACK THE CODE BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT TO FIND OUT ABOUT WII WONT YOU."

Isn't that just lame? I mean, rational people would expect that Nintendo would release some new huge detail about the Wii in a code posted online, but apparently not. I've been distraught over it for the last few hours.

If Nintendo keeps this up they're going to ruin the whole of cryptography.

ink · May 4, 2006, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by meelk

uhh. no. I hate to hear people say stupid crap like that. Nintendo has had one down *quarter ever in its history*. They make the most pure profit of any of the video game companies *every year*. They arent going anywhere. Debt free with about 10 billion in the bank. They made more profit last year than each of the previous four.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=7930

That's great, but GAMERS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PROFITIBILITY OF THE CONSOLE MANFACTURER. If Nintendo has a couple hits on the Wii, then it will stumble along in the footsteps of the N64 and the GCN (both of which I own and both of which have some excellent games). I hope it does better.

That being said, if they fail with Metroid or Mario, then they will fail. Mario Sunshine was horrible (atrocious, hideous, boring, frustrating, Not Fun). If they can't pull off another Metroid Prime, then bye-bye N.

goMac · May 4, 2006, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by ink

That's great, but GAMERS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PROFITIBILITY OF THE CONSOLE MANFACTURER. If Nintendo has a couple hits on the Wii, then it will stumble along in the footsteps of the N64 and the GCN (both of which I own and both of which have some excellent games). I hope it does better.

That being said, if they fail with Metroid or Mario, then they will fail. Mario Sunshine was horrible (atrocious, hideous, boring, frustrating, Not Fun). If they can't pull off another Metroid Prime, then bye-bye N.

Exactly. Nintendo will exit the console business because it simply makes too much money while not selling enough boxes.

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by meelk

I've heard this company doesnt even have a dev. kit.

Yeah last i heard they were using a PC or GCN dev kits or something. either way im looking forward to it...theyre new guys, and are out to prove themselves, like retro was a few years ago

.

lets hope these guys have a showing at E3

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2006, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Typical fanboy. Adding THREE platforms together and saying that N has the most hardware. Give me a break.

Well ****, if marketshare is so important to you, get a PC and gloat about it all you want. Market share is inconsequential to this entire argument. if it matter to you, ur going to have to explain why ur on a Mac as opposed to a PC.

For the record, ive stated that marketshare doesnt matter to me anyway...and from the looks of it it doesnt matter to the other Nintendo fans here either. if you want to be part of the heard go for it...enjoy urself.

So yeah...quit ur bitching and quit disrupting this thread and move onto ur own PS3 and XB360 threads.

meelk · May 4, 2006, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by ink

That's great, but GAMERS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PROFITIBILITY OF THE CONSOLE MANFACTURER. If Nintendo has a couple hits on the Wii, then it will stumble along in the footsteps of the N64 and the GCN (both of which I own and both of which have some excellent games). I hope it does better.

That being said, if they fail with Metroid or Mario, then they will fail. Mario Sunshine was horrible (atrocious, hideous, boring, frustrating, Not Fun). If they can't pull off another Metroid Prime, then bye-bye N.

are you a complete idiot? HOW THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY MAKE PROFIT?
here let me help you: THEY SELL PRODUCT.

Gamers "not caring". I dont know that I've ever heard anything so stupid. It doesnt matter if you care or not, if the company isnt making profit they will eventually exit the market (Microsoft exits quietly, stage left).

and BTW: Nintendo skipped an entire generation of machines with metroid and it never hurt them. your whole theory is BS.

Dark Helmet · May 4, 2006, 09:50 PM

Why do I picture goMac looking like this...

http://www.1up.com/media?id=2839761&type=lg