[Powerbook]

You probably noticed they got arrested at last. I haven't followed the story closely and rather thought they were some poor inbred hicks who can't pay for anything. But the woman alone made apparently $ 1.9 million in the last ten years which she refused to pay taxes for. They compare taxes to slavery and no proud American should pay them. I mean, WTF?! One could argue that taxes are too high or used for wrong purposes, but they seem to miss the most simple coherences of how a state works.
That argumentation reminded me of some ALF snippet:
Lynn: We eat cows and Alf eats cats.
Brian: We don't eat cows!
Lynn: Where do you think Hamburgers come from?
Brian: From the supermarket.


PB.

[FireWire]

From Wikipedia:

During the standoff, a number of supporters were camped outside his home and were encouraged to record any attempt to take Mr. Brown from his house. Ironically, it was this policy of opening their door to supporters which led to the successful arrest of the couple, which was effected by United States Deputy Marshals who disguised themselves as supporters.

They wanted to die rather than give up, and now they got framed by deception. Really unfair practice.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

From Wikipedia:
They wanted to die rather than give up, and now they got framed by deception. Really unfair practice.

First of all, they didn't get framed. Their crime was committed without any influence by the government.

And I suppose you would have preferred another Waco, Texas incident?

I think it was really smart of the police to take advantage of this oppurtunity to get them.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Powerbook 

They compare taxes to slavery and no proud American should pay them. I mean, WTF?! One could argue that taxes are too high or used for wrong purposes, but they seem to miss the most simple coherences of how a state works.

At what point did you apply to become a member of the state and agree to pay taxes?

That's why they're slavery.

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

First of all, they didn't get framed. Their crime was committed without any influence by the government.

Sorry I probably used the wrong word. I thought it meant to be set-up by means of deception.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

And I suppose you would have preferred another Waco, Texas incident?

I don't think the incidents relate, because there wouldn't be any "hostage", nor any innocent victims.. They wanted to walk out free or die, why not grant them their wish? They would have died with pride, while defending their beliefs, which is honorable.

At least they partially won: they never paid taxes, but now the government will use other people taxes to pay for them. How ironic.

(For the records, I totally agree that they are totally loco but I admire their courage)

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

At least they partially won: they never paid taxes, but now the government will use other people taxes to pay for them. How ironic.

The feds will confiscate their property and auction it all off. Also, their convictions will let the feds seize cash or other funds in penalties and restitution.

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

The feds will confiscate their property and auction it all off. Also, their convictions will let the feds seize cash or other funds in penalties and restitution.

D'oh! I thought they were intelligent enough to transfer their assets so they couldn't be seized. How shameful for them

[Cold Warrior]

I don't know; I was just hypothesizing. However, they do have their home, the land, and maybe some other property on site. Also, if they weren't paying taxes, the money has to be somewhere. Probably buried on their land somewhere.

[OldManMac]

They'll get what's coming to them, hopefully.

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

At what point did you apply to become a member of the state and agree to pay taxes?

That's why they're slavery.

Dude, are you becoming England's drama queen or what?! If I ever should feel the need not to be a member of my proud country anymore I simply leave. And if I feel the need to quit society as a whole then I might get lost in some middle American banana republic and go back to nature.
But these clowns participate by driving cars over public financed streets, using schools and universities and obviously having no problem to earn some 1.9 million out of a health care system. And then to run around and tell people that you have been enslaved? Yeah right.

PB.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Powerbook 

Dude, are you becoming England's drama queen or what?! If I ever should feel the need not to be a member of my proud country anymore I simply leave. And if I feel the need to quit society as a whole then I might get lost in some middle American banana republic and go back to nature.
But these clowns participate by driving cars over public financed streets, using schools and universities and obviously having no problem to earn some 1.9 million out of a health care system. And then to run around and tell people that you have been enslaved? Yeah right.

PB.

When you simply leave, you remain a citizen of your home country and any earnings you make while outside the country are still owed in the form of income tax to your home country.

So what do you think leaving gains you? It just means you now owe taxes to wherever you have left to and to where you left from.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

When you simply leave, you remain a citizen of your home country and any earnings you make while outside the country are still owed in the form of income tax to your home country.

So what do you think leaving gains you? It just means you now owe taxes to wherever you have left to and to where you left from.

That seems like a silly law that ought to change. I don't pay tax to the Canadian government because I don't live there anymore.

[besson3c]

vmarks, found this here:

Residency Status for Foreign Nationals

A nonresident files a special tax form, pays tax only on U.S. source income, is subject to special rates, and might qualify for treaty exemptions.

There is mention there of 2001, so I'm not sure if this info is up-to-date

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

When you simply leave, you remain a citizen of your home country and any earnings you make while outside the country are still owed in the form of income tax to your home country.

Wrong. I don't give my home country one cent of taxes as I do not live there.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

At what point did you apply to become a member of the state and agree to pay taxes?

That's why they're slavery.

That's right you did not apply, it was a privilege for you to become a UK citizen. Unlike slavery though, you can renounce it as you please. Wrong analogy.

[Face Ache]

I've only seen the first few minutes of this but you might find it interesting.

[Uncle Skeleton]

So what is it? Is it legit? Or is it like the Jay Leno people on the street thing to find out how gullible we are?

[Face Ache]

It will improve your life and make you more attractive to women.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

When you simply leave, you remain a citizen of your home country and any earnings you make while outside the country are still owed in the form of income tax to your home country.

So what do you think leaving gains you? It just means you now owe taxes to wherever you have left to and to where you left from.

If I moved to another country and my sole income was earned in that other country, you'd be sorely mistaken if you think I'd pay income tax to the U. S., and I think you're greatly mistaken in your statement.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

If I moved to another country and my sole income was earned in that other country, you'd be sorely mistaken if you think I'd pay income tax to the U. S., and I think you're greatly mistaken in your statement.

If a US citizen leaves the US to go live in a low/no tax country, s/he still has to pay US federal tax on his/her global income. That's a fact.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If a US citizen leaves the US to go live in a low/no tax country, s/he still has to pay US federal tax on his/her global income. That's a fact.

That documentary (above) says Americans don't have to pay income tax.

Seems credible (even if it's just a loophole).

It goes on to explain why the US finds itself in the hole it's in (with banker's plans for a world government).

The second half features Ron Paul.

Try it. You'll like it.

[Face Ache]

YouTube - Vicente Fox hints about a North American Union

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If a US citizen leaves the US to go live in a low/no tax country, s/he still has to pay US federal tax on his/her global income. That's a fact.

Sorry, but that's not a fact. The law is somewhat vague, but there are definitely exceptions. If I moved to another country to live and work, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd pay taxes to a country I get no more benefits from. Tax Topics - Topic 853 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion — General

If you are a United States citizen or a resident alien who lives and works abroad, you may qualify to exclude all or part of your foreign salary or wages, or amounts received as compensation for personal services rendered from your income.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

That documentary (above) says Americans don't have to pay income tax.

Seems credible (even if it's just a loophole).

It goes on to explain why the US finds itself in the hole it's in (with banker's plans for a world government).

The second half features Ron Paul.

Try it. You'll like it.

It's just propaganda. Income tax laws have been upheld routinely in courts. This is just another scam that only the weak-minded believe.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

YouTube - Vicente Fox hints about a North American Union

In his dreams. He'd love open borders with the US and Canada so he could export his failures up north.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

In his dreams. He'd love open borders with the US and Canada so he could export his failures up north.

What are his failures Cold Warrior? Why not enlighten us as to the state of Mexican politics?

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

It's just propaganda. Income tax laws have been upheld routinely in courts. This is just another scam that only the weak-minded believe.

If you watched it, it's you who missed the point.

Weak-minded? I'm growing tired of these slights. Do you want me to teach you how to really insult people?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Sorry, but that's not a fact. The law is somewhat vague, but there are definitely exceptions. If I moved to another country to live and work, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd pay taxes to a country I get no more benefits from. Tax Topics - Topic 853 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion — General

OK, firstly, I'll refresh your memory:

Originally Posted by me

If a US citizen leaves the US to go live in a low/no tax country, s/he still has to pay US federal tax on his/her global income. That's a fact.

Right, so here's your list of countries which the US has tax treaties with:
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/intern...=96739,00.html

If the treaty does not cover a particular kind of income, or if there is no treaty between your country and the United States, you must pay tax on the income in the same way and at the same rates shown in the instructions for the applicable U.S. tax return.

You can't get an exclusion if your new "tax home" doesn't have a tax treaty with the US (essentially, the exclusions are there to prevent double taxation). Do you see any low/no tax jurisdictions on that list?

You move to Monaco, Andorra, Caymans, Bermuda, etc. and retain your US citizenship you'll be paying full whack on your US federal taxes. Heck, you move to Brazil and you're going to pay full whack on US federal taxes and full whack on Brazilian taxes.

If you're a US citizen, the US government owns your ass.
Vote Ron Paul if you've got any sense.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What are his failures Cold Warrior? Why not enlighten us as to the state of Mexican politics?

Mexico is a poverty-stricken third world nation devoid of hope. Fox's failures are just the latest in Mexico's modern history of failure to capitalize on its oil wealth to raise the standard of living of its people, build a middle-class, and expand its domestic economy beyond oil cash and Western Union transfers from its US-based citizens.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

YouTube - Vicente Fox hints about a North American Union

The North American Union will exist by 2020 at the latest. My sources put it before 2012.

Here's an echo:
Independent Task Force on North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't think the Dems will save you either - their puppet masters are the very same guys holding the current administration's strings.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Don't think the Dems will save you either - their puppet masters are the very same guys holding the current administration's strings.

You and I agree more often than you realise (anti-left vitriol aside ).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

You and I agree more often than you realise (anti-left vitriol aside ).

You should try some of that sometime. It's yummy.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Sorry, but that's not a fact. The law is somewhat vague, but there are definitely exceptions. If I moved to another country to live and work, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd pay taxes to a country I get no more benefits from.

No benefits? Surely you're joking. The US maintains a State Department, Embassies and Ambassadors around the world to provide services to citizens traveling or residing abroad. They aren't just for immigrants or visitors applying for visas, you know.

The US also provides for evacuating citizens from areas that have become dangerous, such as Lebanon was one summer not so long ago.

Now let's think about this: Imagine that you, OldMacMan, were traveling in Lebanon, and all of a sudden things became unsuitable to continue your travels. If you were deriving no benefits, you would have had to make arrangements to leave on your own. To expect your countrymen to pay for your evacuation when you had not been contributing taxes would be immoral.

The other neat thing about your position is that you seem to say that if you don't feel you've derived a benefit or service, then you don't have to pay.

That's going to go over great for all the anti-military folks who would rather not pay for defense.

Unfortunately, it's going to have a bad backlash for welfare recipients, public education, and any other controversial topic.

Tax Topics - Topic 853 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion — General

If you are a United States citizen or a resident alien who lives and works abroad, you may qualify to exclude all or part of your foreign salary or wages, or amounts received as compensation for personal services rendered from your income.

MAY. You also may not qualify to exclude any part.
This is the government we're talking about here. They will of course read it to suit themselves.