[selowitch]

So what did everybody think of the full trailer? I thought it was really exciting. It definitely raised my expectations for this, the final installment in the Star Wars saga.

The most interesting moments for me include Chancellor Palpatine apparently whipping out a lightsaber and fighting Mace Windu and three Jedi companions by himself. Later, we see Darth Sidious (like Palpatine, also played by Ian McDiarmid. Hmmmmmm.) hurling senatorial pods at Master Yoda in the Senate chamber, symbolically wrecking democracy (as I interpret it) while trying to kill the leader of the Jedi Knights. Wow!

We all know there is some connection between Palpatine and Sidious. They may in fact be the same person. But how does one metamorphose into the other? What causes the voice to change? Does Sidious eventually forsake the Palpatine identity entirely? Could Palpatine have a kind of Dark Side-induced schizophrenia that makes him forget he's really Darth Sidious? I'd love to see that plot arc resolved once and for all.

I also loved Obi-Wan's anguished crying out to Anakin, "You were the Chosen One!" It's as though, even amid their climactic battle, the Master still cannot fathom his Padawan's betrayal. It seems quite poignant.

As a side note, I'm not sure I love the idea of Palpatine/Sidious wielding a lightsaber. To me, one of the ominously cool things about the Emperor (whom I suppose is Darth Sidious and perhaps Palpatine at the same time or something) was that in Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, he seemed to me to be so powerful in the Force that he didn't need a lightsaber at all. He could rely on Vader and the Imperial Guards to protect him, and I surmise that failing that, his own Force powers were so immense he could probably defeat even a saber-wielding Jedi. But then again, somebody had to train the athletic, cat-like Darth Maul, and who else but his master?

I didn't like how in Episode II: Attack of the Clones Dooku is revealed to have the power of Force Lightning just like the Emperor in Episode VI. That disappointed me because I liked the idea of such a terrifying ability being a power unique to the Emperor.

Please chime in!

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by selowitch:
So what did everybody think of the full trailer? I thought it was really exciting. It definitely raised my expectations for this, the final installment in the Star Wars saga.

The most interesting moments for me include Chancellor Palpatine apparently whipping out a lightsaber and fighting Mace Windu and three Jedi companions by himself. Later, we see Darth Sidious (like Palpatine, also played by Ian McDiarmid. Hmmmmmm.) hurling senatorial pods at Master Yoda in the Senate chamber, symbolically wrecking democracy [as I interpret it) while trying to kill the leader of the Jedi Knights. Wow!

We all know there is some connection between Palpatine and Sidious. They may in fact be the same person. But how does one metamorphose into the other? What causes the voice to change? Does Sidious eventual forsake the Palpatine identity entirely? I'd love to see that plot arc resolved once and for all.

I also loved Obi-Wan's anguished crying out to Anakin, "You were the Chosen One!" It's as though, even amid their climactic battle, the Master still cannot fathom his Padawan's betrayal. It seems quite poignant.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=247531

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=247531

Yeah, yeah. I know. But that thread was going a little stale, and this one goes in a somewhat different direction.

Bah. I'm so sick of everybody writing to say, "Your thread sucks. It belongs as part of this existing thread over here." But what if that thread doesn't appeal to me? Get over it, already.

[Zimmerman]

Originally posted by selowitch:
Yeah, yeah. I know. But that thread was going a little stale, and this one goes in a somewhat different direction.

Bah. I'm so sick of everybody writing to say, "Your thread sucks. It belongs as part of this existing thread over here." But what if that thread doesn't appeal to me? Get over it, already.

Yea! Hater. Don't bag on the man's thread. It is a discrete product full of exciting dicsussion potential!

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by selowitch:
[B]We all know there is some connection between Palpatine and Sidious. They may in fact be the same person./B]

That better be a joke.

Oh an interesting side note the actor that plays him is a major homosexual. I guess the whole turning people to the dark side makes more sense now

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
That better be a joke.

And if it's not, what are you going to do? Translate Shakespeare into Bocce?

Why must it be a joke? Do I sound like I'm joking? At this point in the story, it has not yet been made explicitly clear what the relationship between Palpatine and Sidious is. I pose the question honestly, even if I have my opinions as to the answer.

Ian McDiarmid's sexuality (or the sexuality of anyone else I've never met) is of very little interest to me. That said, you may be confusing him with Ian McKellan, who played Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by selowitch:
And if it's not, what are you going to do? Translate Shakespeare into Bocce?

Why must it be a joke? Do I sound like I'm joking? At this point in the story, it has not yet been made explicitly clear what the relationship between Palpatine and Sidious is. I pose the question honestly, even if I have my opinions as to the answer.

Ian McDiarmid's sexuality (or the sexuality of anyone else I've never met) is of very little interest to me. That said, you may be confusing him with Ian McKellan, who played Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings.

Because it is obvious from Ep1 that Palp is Sidious.

And no, I know the dif between him and Ian. My friend worked with Palpatine in England a few years ago, she said he was very nice and very gay. I thought it is cool as he is the most powerful evil man in the Sci-Fi universe and he likes the ballet

[Ozmodiar]

This thread is awesome.

[PB2K]

it really adds to my life

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
That better be a joke.

Oh an interesting side note the actor that plays him is a major homosexual. I guess the whole turning people to the dark side makes more sense now

No wonder he dressed Vader in black leather, and made him get on his knees before him.

And the original poster was probably meaning that maybe Palpatine could be a clone of Sideus? Or He can physically control his outward appearance when he wants to. Maybe that is part of the "Unnatural" abilities along with cheating death he was referring to.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Because it is obvious from Ep1 that Palp is Sidious.

It may be obvious to you and likely to me, but isn't reasonable to say that, at least from the script, it's clear that Lucas is at least trying to keep the connection somewhat mysterious?

[selowitch]

Originally posted by PB2K:
it really adds to my life

Well, whose fault is that? I began things thoughtfully enough, I felt. It's only when the damned trolls showed up that things got silly.

[typoon]

I hope this movie will be good. It looks great from the trailer.

Though George Lucas "calls new 'Star Wars' a titanic tearjerker"

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news...&w=RTR&coview=

LAS VEGAS (Reuters) - Director George Lucas had a message for fans as he previewed a glimpse of the final tale in the billion-dollar "Star Wars" film franchise: leave the lightsabers at home, but don't forget the tissues.

"It's not like the first one. It's more emotional," said the director of the upcoming space adventure "Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith," which arrives in theaters May 19.

"I describe it as a 'Titanic' in space. It's a real tearjerker, and it will be received in a way that none of us can expect," he told theater owners at the ShoWest convention.

ShoWest is a major gathering of movie theater owners in the United States and a launch pad for Hollywood's summer movies.

Film studio 20th Century Fox teased a packed house here with the first six minutes of "Revenge of the Sith," marking the first time the scenes had been shown to audiences.

Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) and master Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor) wage a furious fight against their adversaries in a battle of deadly spaceships. In this episode, Skywalker becomes the notorious Darth Vader.

Lucas and the promotional clip did not divulge much about the "tearjerker" love story. But Senator Amidala (Natalie Portman), who married Skywalker in a secret ceremony witnessed in the last movie, plays a key role.

If Lucas's comparison to "Titanic" is to be believed, there must be heartbreak in "Revenge of the Sith" because 1997's tale of the doomed ocean liner stirred audiences with its tale of an ill-fated affair between characters played by Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet.

Love can work wonders with movie audiences. "Titanic" is the highest-grossing movie of all time with more than $1.8 billion in worldwide ticket sales. In the No. 2 spot is "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" with $1.1 billion.

The "Star Wars" films are no box office losers, either, but there hasn't been much romance in them -- not yet, anyway.

The adventures began with 1977's "Star Wars" and have sold nearly $3.4 billion worth of tickets at global box offices.

(Bob Tourtellotte in Los Angeles contributed to this report.)

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
maybe Palpatine could be a clone of Sidious? Or he can physically control his outward appearance when he wants to. Maybe that is part of the "unnatural" abilities along with cheating death he was referring to.

Yep, those are the kind of explanations I was seeking. I like your idea of Palpatine being able to physically transform himself in Darth Sidious at will. That's seriously creepy!

You know what's weird? The berobed red-lightsaber wielding baddy that attacks Yoda in the trailer looks a little different than the Emperor-like figure with the gray-blue skin who says "Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic. Do what must be done. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy." The former is kind of pastey white with a different aspect than the latter. I suppose that's still supposed to be Darth Sidious, or maybe some kind of transitional state between Palpatine and Sidious, kind of like in the old Incredible Hulk series on TV when he was stuck between being David Banner and the Hulk....

[AppleOptionFour]

Originally posted by selowitch:
I didn't like how in Episode II: Attack of the Clones Dooku is revealed to have the power of Force Lightning just like the Emperor in Episode VI. That disappointed me because I liked the idea of such a terrifying ability being a power unique to the Emperor.

Much to learn you still have.

Maybe lightning is to the force like button pressing was to Mortal Kombat in the mid 90's.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Oh an interesting side note the actor that plays him is a major homosexual.

You guys have rankings now?

[selowitch]

Originally posted by AppleOptionFour:
Maybe lightning is to the force like button pressing was to Mortal Kombat in the mid 90's.

By that you mean, Force Lightning was ubiquitous back then? I doubt that. Dooku says, "As you can see, my Jedi powers are far beyond yours," which implies that he doesn't believe Obi-Wan can duplicate the feat.

BTW, an aside: When Dooku mocks Obi-Wan with the line: "Master Kenobi, you disappoint me. Yoda holds you in such high esteem. Surely you can do better!" I couldn't help but agree. Obi-Wan put forth such a lame effort in that fight (I think Ewan McGregor agrees with me, too). Is this really the great Jedi Knight who later defeats Darth Vader in Episode III?

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
You guys have rankings now?

Funny how we never say, "that guy's a major heterosexual." It's so stupid. Nobody cares with whom a person sleeps.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by selowitch:
It may be obvious to you and likely to me, but isn't reasonable to say that, at least from the script, it's clear that Lucas is at least trying to keep the connection somewhat mysterious?

Long before Ep1 came out all books and background stories on Star Wars always called the Emperor Palpatine.

I think he is just hiding his appearance, when the dark side shows he just looks nasty.

[selowitch]

Oops. Mistaken post. Sorry.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Long before Ep1 came out all books and background stories on Star Wars always called the Emperor Palpatine.

That's true. I remember playing the Star Wars Roleplaying Game and the Emperor being called "Emperor Palpatine" in the list of encounterable characters. I acknowledge that.

But remember, there's what's in the films and then there's the Expanded Universe. From the strict perspective of what's been presented on the Big Screen thus far, we still have no unambiguous connection between Palpatine and Sidious. That's my point.

[AppleOptionFour]

Originally posted by selowitch:
By that you mean, Force Lightning was ubiquitous back then? I doubt that. Dooku says, "As you can see, my Jedi powers are far beyond yours," which implies that he doesn't believe Obi-Wan can duplicate the feat.

Yeah not a perfect analogy. I meant to say that its something that perhaps the Jedi know about but they don't use it due to it being the "easy way out."

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Also in the comics that take place after Jedi Palpatine has taken on another body. The dark side degrades the body so he has to switch bodies every once and a while.

[OB1]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Oh an interesting side note the actor that plays him is a major homosexual.

Like lots of people every other Thursday I go gay, Senator Palpatine however, is a full-time gay.

Star Wars had fallen off my radar but this new trailer has got me looking forward to more... At least it's all over now. Or is it?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
You guys have rankings now?

Oh ya, if you would have seen Ian McKellan at the film fest party 2 years ago you would agree. He was pinching all the boys bums who interviewed him. He was totally flaming and it is just interesting seeing him like that after watching LOTR and Xmen.

[starman]

Wait, the OTHER thread was stale?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by starman:
Wait, the OTHER thread was stale?

It had no homosexual content.

[starman]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
It had no homosexual content.

So you're saying that homosexuality is what keeps things fresh? Someone call Wonder Bread

Mike

[Fiend]

When I was growing up, a fellow soccer teammate was huge into Star Wars. He had a poster in his room, of 9 episodes. I II and III and VII VIII and IX contained photos of various characters of the movies IV and V. VI was just coming out and it was a promotional piece.

Once GL announced he was going to be making the beginning of the story, I've gone back to thinking of that poster.

I also seem to remember reading or watching a documentary of GL about how when he first hawked the idea to be made, the story was so involved that the studios weren't interested, it was just too much so he choose to take the 'middle' of the script and use that to hawk his ideas. That can be read 2 ways. Middle of I - VI or that IV, V and VI were the middle.

I think there is still hope for more even though over the last few weeks GL has said that this is it (like on 60 Minutes last week). His body language and eyes told a different story. Or I just read that into it as I want more. His reason of wanting to be a better father and spend more times with his kids is also valid.

I also would like him to redo IV, V and VI (since V and VI were directed by others) and make them of the same type and feel as the prequals have been. Use the technology of today and carry the characters thru using that.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Fiend:
I also would like him to redo IV, V and VI (since V and VI were directed by others) and make them of the same type and feel as the prequals have been. Use the technology of today and carry the characters thru using that.

Not me. The Special Editions were a travesty. The only way I'd support it is if he took the original releases and improved them (without changing the content and sequence of the shots) by say, inserting a CG Yoda in place of the puppet. That might make some sense. But Lucas doesn't seem able to resist the temptation to screw things up.

His worst atrocity? Following the first duel with Luke in Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Vader originally growls: "Bring ... my ... shuttle." It's a perfect, scowling line. In the Special Edition (and on the DVD) he says instead, rather passionlessly, "Inform my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival." It's pretty obvious to me which is better. Weirdly, too, the latter line sounds as if it were overdubbed by someone who is not James Earl Jones. Anyone else catch this?

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Also in the comics that take place after Jedi Palpatine has taken on another body. The dark side degrades the body so he has to switch bodies every once and a while.

Yeah, I heard about that book. But it's still non-canonical.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Fiend:
I think there is still hope for more even though over the last few weeks GL has said that this is it (like on 60 Minutes last week). His body language and eyes told a different story. Or I just read that into it as I want more. His reason of wanting to be a better father and spend more times with his kids is also valid.

Disingenuous at best. He'd have to fire half his staff at least. There's no way he'll give it up. It's his life and his legacy. My bet is Episodes VII-IX will get made as soon as his last kid leaves for college!

[RAILhead]

Nobody's read the books? Palpatine cloned himself and moved throughout the various systems, taking them over. While the books weren't written by Lucas, he gave several series' the right to call themselves authoritative and part of the "known" universe. That being the case, if you go by those books, it's been common knowledge that Palpatine and Sideous are clones.

Which is the original?

I'll wait and see if Lucas pulls a switcheroo in the movie...

Maury

[selowitch]

Rats! Another mistaken post. Sorry.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
Nobody's read the books? Palpatine cloned himself and moved throughout the various systems, taking them over. While the books weren't written by Lucas, he gave several series' the right to call themselves authoritative and part of the "known" universe. That being the case, if you go by those books, it's been common knowledge that Palpatine and Sideous are clones.

Which is the original?

I'll wait and see if Lucas pulls a switcheroo in the movie...

Maury

If that's the case, then Sidious would be a pretty nasty-looking clone of Palpatine. I guess he must have subcontracted to a cheaper outfit than the one on Kamino! Can you say ... "factory reject"?

So, is one a clone of the other, or is there a separate host?

[starman]

I seriously doubt there will be any real surprises in this movie.

What I want to know is how they resolve the issue with the Jedi that ordered the clones in the first place.

Mike

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by selowitch:
If that's the case, then Sidious would be a pretty nasty-looking clone of Palpatine. I guess he must have subcontracted to a cheaper outfit than the one on Kamino! Can you say ... "factory reject"?

So, is one a clone of the other, or is there a separate host?

Clones age independently, of course. Also, their appearance is also changed by how deep they are into the Force, dontcha know.

As to you last question, that's where Lucas *may* diverge from the books, so we'll see...

Maury

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I really don't think that the Emperor and Palpatine are separate people.

[starman]

Christ, people it said on PAGE ONE of the Star Wars novel that Palpy was the Emperor. That's been known since 1976.

Sheesh.

Mike

[selowitch]

Originally posted by starman:
Christ, people it said on PAGE ONE of the Star Wars novel that Palpy was the Emperor. That's been known since 1976.

Sure. But what about Darth Sidious? I'll bet he isn't mentioned in the 1976 novel.

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I really don't think that the Emperor and Palpatine are separate people.

Honestly? Neither do I. But I'm looking forward to them resolving it explicitly, or to Palpatine revealing himself as Darth Sidious in Force-disguise, something like that.

[starman]

Originally posted by selowitch:
Sure. But what about Darth Sidious? I'll bet he isn't mentioned in the 1976 novel.

Oh, please. We know that Palpy == Emperor == Sidious. Have you actually WATCHED the trailer?

Mike

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

There are so many holes in Star Wars it isn't even funny. Lucas just makes it up as he goes along.

3P0 and R2 say that they were Obi-wans property but he doesn't remember them in Ep4.
Obi-one changes his story on vader in Ep 5. He also says when he met Anikan he was a great pilot (also bull).

There are a million more but I can't be bothered to think of it right now.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by starman:
Oh, please. We know that Palpy == Emperor == Sidious. Have you actually WATCHED the trailer?

Mike

Which is why I'm saying that I wonder if/what Lucas will change in the movie. In the books, Palpatine, the Emperor and Sidious are clones from the same source -- they are NOT the same physical person. In the books, the "young" Palpatine in the new SW trilogy becomes the Emperor we saw in ROTJ. However, he's merely a clone of the real Palpatine -- not the original. So it is with Sideous.

The above is where Lucas may diverge form the books he authorized, but we won't know for sure until the flick is out.

Maury

[starman]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
Which is why I'm saying that I wonder if/what Lucas will change in the movie. In the books, Palpatine, the Emperor and Sidious are clones from the same source -- they are NOT the same physical person. In the books, the "young" Palpatine in the new SW trilogy becomes the Emperor we saw in ROTJ. However, he's merely a clone of the real Palpatine -- not the original. So it is with Sideous.

The above is where Lucas may diverge form the books he authorized, but we won't know for sure until the flick is out.

Maury

Watch the trailer.

The scene where Windu comes to arrest Palpy, Palpy whips out a lightsaber and all of a sudden becomes all hunched over like the Emperor. Not the stand-up-straight-and-tall person we saw a second earlier. In another shot, Sidious has the same robe on that Palpy had. Gee...hmmm....

Mike

[selowitch]

Originally posted by starman:
Watch the trailer.

The scene where Windu comes to arrest Palpy, Palpy whips out a lightsaber and all of a sudden becomes all hunched over like the Emperor. Not the stand-up-straight-and-tall person we saw a second earlier. In another shot, Sidious has the same robe on that Palpy had. Gee...hmmm....

Mike

Certainly this is some solid evidence, but hardly totally conclusive. I think we can all admit that, absent some spoiler knowledge, there are still some issues to resolve re the true identity and origins of Palpatine/Sidious/the Emperor.

[KeriVit]

Where can I see the trailer? I tried the one in the last thread , but was unable to download it...

[residentEvil]

I think there is a Star Wars website.

Probably www.starwars.com

You might try there.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by KeriVit:
Where can I see the trailer? I tried the one in the last thread , but was unable to download it...

The last place you should check is www.starwars.com

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
3P0 and R2 say that they were Obi-wans property but he doesn't remember them in Ep4.

Actually, C-3PO reports to Luke that R2-D2 says that he (i.e., R2-D2) is the property of Obi-Wan Kenobi. One could posit that Leah Organa reprogrammed R2 to behave as if he were the property of the Jedi Master so that his homing program would become active. This behavior might conceivably include making this claim.

E.g., "Set property 'owner' to 'Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi of the Dune Sea, Tatooine.'"

This hypothesis fits in with Obi-Wan's later statement, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid." On the other hand, maybe its a more general disavowal, i.e., I never "owned" any droid, not even R4, his companion in Episode II: Attack of the Clones. Perhaps the Jedi philosopher would argue that whereas droids are sentient beings, they are not owned by anyone.

Obi-Wan changes his story on Vader in Ep 5.

Yes, but since it's apparently part of the plot that Obi-Wan lies to Luke because he's not ready for the burden, that's technically not a "hole" per se, but a deliberate contradiction.

He also says when he met Anakin he was a great pilot (also bull).

Unh-uh. Check the script of Episode IV: A New Hope:

When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot, but I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him.

He didn't say Ani was a great pilot when they first met, rather only when they first knew eachother. There's only a day or two between the moment they first meet on Tatooine and the battle over Naboo where Ani first distinguishes himself as a pilot. What Obi-Wan actually said could be factually true, while what you claimed Obi-Wan said would have been demonstrably false.