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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > just make it red...(rant)

just make it red...(rant)
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MrsLarry
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May 16, 2006, 11:18 AM
 
i have a non-designer here at work (I AM the designer) who just pisses me off every chance she gets. Her job is a higher level than mine, but she is not my superior, nor is she even in my department. she's a mediator between our company and the client. but she feels the need to put her two sense into everything that comes out of my department, and tosses just about everything back with her revisions before it goes out. so our client doesn't get to see what I design, rather, the sad little skeleton of what I designed, ripped apart by someone who doesn't know any better. Some phrases i'm particularly tired of hearing:

"there's a lot of empty space here, can you find a picture to take up some space?"
"let's make this line bold so it 'pops' "
"this needs to 'pop' - can you just make it red or something?"

POP, POP, POP - i wanna POP you in the face!

Maybe this is just me, hating her. Maybe it's just me started to feel jaded by the real world and the 'corporate game'. Either way, just wanted to put that out there in the universe, see if anyone else has a similar experience, and how they dealt
     
dillerX
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May 16, 2006, 11:21 AM
 
i feel your pain.
I tried to sig-spam the forums.
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Dakar
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May 16, 2006, 11:22 AM
 
Yeah, in my company the people who I do work for (aka non-designers) act like we have no idea what we're doing back here and say the same exact things.
     
RAILhead
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May 16, 2006, 11:30 AM
 
It's two cents, BTW.
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That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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FireWire
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May 16, 2006, 11:30 AM
 
The kind of people who love designing things in Word, with lot of 3D text and clipart...
     
Dakar
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May 16, 2006, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by FireWire
The kind of people who love designing things in Word, with lot of 3D text and clipart...
And they always use 3 pieces of clipart all with completely different drawing styles.
     
MrsLarry  (op)
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May 16, 2006, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead
It's two cents, BTW.
thanks for yours, now i've got 4 cents!
     
MrsLarry  (op)
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May 16, 2006, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by FireWire
The kind of people who love designing things in Word, with lot of 3D text and clipart...
And don't forget Powerpoint! PowerPoint = MrsLarry's arch nemesis
     
olePigeon
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May 16, 2006, 11:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead
It's two cents, BTW.
It's a penny for a thought. It can be 2 sense.

By the way, your post has a lot of white space on the right side. Can you fill it with more popping smilies?
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::maroma::
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May 16, 2006, 01:27 PM
 
I have worked with many people like that. Luckily at my current job there is none of that going on. But something I learned from working with people like that is that it really helps you to design with purpose, and to be able to explain your design and argue for it. I've found that if you can argue for all aspects of your design, you will more than likely convince them that you are correct and their suggestions aren't the best idea. Obviously some people won't be so cooperative, but most will.

I find that if this person would come to me and start telling me to make changes to my design, I would be able to argue my points and usually come out with my design being intact. I wouldn't be confrontational, but instead very open minded and easy going. Just let them know why you chose to do certain things, and why you think that their suggestion(s) wouldn't be the best idea for that particular design. Good designers should be able to argue for their designs all day and night with merit. If your designs are solid there should be no reason to let some marketing weenie destroy it.
     
Rumor
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May 16, 2006, 01:39 PM
 
Can you go to someone higher than you? Let them know that she is impeding your job. Or next time she comes around, give her the finger and tell her to design the damn thing herself.

oooo You could always do what Adam Sandler did in Anger Management.
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ironknee
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May 16, 2006, 04:27 PM
 
want me to talk to her?
     
greenamp
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May 16, 2006, 05:04 PM
 
Want me to blow up her car?
     
Rumor
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May 16, 2006, 05:06 PM
 
Want me to steal all of her left shoes?
( Last edited by Rumor; May 16, 2006 at 06:47 PM. )
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cpt kangarooski
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May 16, 2006, 05:40 PM
 
Eh, I kind of agree with her. That line would look better if it were bolder.
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cjrivera
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May 16, 2006, 06:19 PM
 
Show her that Microsoft iPod video parody and make some not-so-subtle remarks about how good design gets screwed up when too many people give their own uninformed opinions.
"It's weird the way 'finger puppets' sounds ok as a noun..."
     
ironknee
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May 16, 2006, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor
Want me to steal all of her left shoes?



Originally Posted by cpt kangarooski
Eh, I kind of agree with her. That line would look better if it were bolder.
hmm i see... it does...pop...and can we use another color for it?
     
Salty
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May 16, 2006, 07:35 PM
 
You should try working in a CHRUCH and dealing with people like this! Being the intern and being the only person on staff then besides the secretary who knew jack about computers most design work fell on my shoulders because... well I'd do it far better than they were.

Just go give you an idea:
http://clayshaker.com/mbp/NewLetter.jpg
Is what the Youth Pastor is doing for his news letter since he kicked me out,
http://clayshaker.com/mbp/OldCal.jpg
Is the events calendar that I put together for october.

It's funny because after the internship was over he just stopped asking me to put anything together even though I still had time, he just started putting my graphics into his old layout... but then just brutalizing them a bit. You know, this one's too wide or two tall or something. It actually is kinda painful seeing people use Word to mutilate your designs.
But it is funny how some people just think red text will fix everything.

I remember once sitting with our Sr. Pastor trying to get the audio for a piece of video just the way he wanted it. It was incredibly annoying cause I was doing it with a track pad and he was neurotic but had no idea what he was doing. And I'd said I would have prefered to be able to proof the audio in the place it'd be shown but... whatever.

Sigh... I really hate working with people who want to have input when they don't understand what you have to do, or how much work goes into things that they take for granted.
     
::maroma::
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May 16, 2006, 07:58 PM
 
Hahah I love the kid running off the cliff, with a big smile on his face. I know it goes with the title of the calendar, but its still funny.
     
CharlesS
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May 16, 2006, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by MrsLarry
but she feels the need to put her two sense into everything that comes out of my department
Hmm... could you change "sense" to "cents" to make it 'pop' a bit more?

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
Salty
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May 16, 2006, 08:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma::
Hahah I love the kid running off the cliff, with a big smile on his face. I know it goes with the title of the calendar, but its still funny.
You should have seen our kids, then it makes even more sense. If I would have jumped off a cliff and told them it was cool... there's a decent chance they would have followed me... not because they believed me... just cause they're dumb like that . Nah I loved my kids... but... they really did enjoy leaping off of things. I remember one time when one of them took a running jump off the stairs of the loft to the bottom, that's a good 15 stairs at least... probably a good 12 foot drop.
     
Sourbook
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May 16, 2006, 08:35 PM
 
The phrase "Opinions are like a-holes" is never more relevant than in design. Literally everyone thinks their opinion has merit. My personal favorite is "It needs more oomph."
     
IFLY2HIGH
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May 16, 2006, 09:59 PM
 
Our company designers come out and ask how we want things layed out on a sheet (Printing), so we tell them, and for some reason they still go back and do it their own way,and then when it comes to use for processing it's all screwed up. Now we have to somehow "make it work" but if they'd of done it the way they asked us how to lay it out, well it woulda taken less time and less hastle.
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cpt kangarooski
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May 16, 2006, 11:15 PM
 
I think the latest revisions are good with regard to popping. Now let's see if we can get some crackle in there.
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ort888
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May 16, 2006, 11:39 PM
 
I learned a long time ago not to care that much about what happens to my designs. 90% of them get completely FUBARed by the time they go out the door. It's the nature of the business.

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Salty
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May 16, 2006, 11:45 PM
 
This is why I'm glad God called me to be a pastor. I remember designing a website for a guy. I had to redesign it I'm not even kidding 3 times, where every single aspect of the design changed.
     
MrsLarry  (op)
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May 16, 2006, 11:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by MrsLarry
she feels the need to put her into everything that comes out of my department

'pop'inated
     
Salty
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May 16, 2006, 11:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by MrsLarry
'pop'inated
Now then... did you get those from Google Images or... clip art? Cause really if you're gonna pop... it's gotta be clip art.
     
MrsLarry  (op)
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May 16, 2006, 11:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty
Now then... did you get those from Google Images or... clip art? Cause really if you're gonna pop... it's gotta be clip art.
that would be a g gle
     
Salty
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May 17, 2006, 01:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by MrsLarry
that would be a g gle

See you need something more like this

http://www.sm5sxl.net/~mats/graphics...hool/penny.png
     
JoshuaZ
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May 17, 2006, 01:12 AM
 
Try working with a language barrier between two people. Sigh... some of my co-teachers are so meaningful, but give me the most vague discriptions of what they want me to do.

A fax I got this week: `Bring something useful for the lesson.`

Me: `What the F$%# is the lesson!?!`
     
shunt
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May 17, 2006, 01:30 AM
 
Forget the direct approach or reasoning with her, it sounds like that's a dead end and most likely what she is good at dealing with. Find her weaknesses and create a disturbance that takes her attention away from you and your work.

I'm sure you can think of something, find her man a new girlfriend or whatever it takes.
It's war, take the offensive.


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Kr0nos
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May 17, 2006, 02:22 AM
 
That's happened to me a lot.

One day my former boss came in and suggested that I change an image on the flyer I had created the day before, because his 14 year old daughter had objected to it at the dinner table.

Anyway, you're not an artist, (I assume) it's your job to make the company money. If she screws up and your business loses a client, make sure people in charge find out about it. Other than that, just do your job and collect the pay check.

I also make sure that my name isn't mentioned in regards to the project if I feel that somebody has screwed it up.

If your creative/artistic expression is really that important to you, start a little art project on the side - or better yet, find a new job.

If I change my way of living, and if I pave my streets with good times, will the mountain keep on giving…
     
- - e r i k - -
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May 17, 2006, 02:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty
You should try working in a CHRUCH and dealing with people like this!
I'm pretty sure there should be a T in there somewhere

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ghporter
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May 17, 2006, 01:42 PM
 
I'd buy HER boss a cup of coffee and let the boss know how YOUR time is being soaked up. Not that you have a problem with her, but that you don't get to do what the customer wants (and get it done quickly and smoothly) because this person "interprets" the customer's desires, and frankly is not particularly creative.

Nice, friendly, but "customer-oriented" is the way to go. Her boss should know that you think she's hindering your progress-and thus reducing the number of clients you can make happy in any given period of time. You "just want to make sure this is all on the up and up."

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andi*pandi
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May 17, 2006, 05:05 PM
 
design by committee is the bane of my existance.

If she's not your superior, can you just tell her the next time she asks to fill in white space, "thanks, but I considered that, and realized it would look cramped and unprofessional."

or you could quote this old Rand saying at her:

"If you can't make it good make it big.
If you can't make it big make it red."

big AND red being optimal for the clueless client or in this case, clueless go-between.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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May 17, 2006, 05:11 PM
 
What is her position there? Can't you just tell her to piss off?

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G Barnett
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May 17, 2006, 05:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi
design by committee is the bane of my existance.

If she's not your superior, can you just tell her the next time she asks to fill in white space, "thanks, but I considered that, and realized it would look cramped and unprofessional."

or you could quote this old Rand saying at her:

"If you can't make it good make it big.
If you can't make it big make it red."

big AND red being optimal for the clueless client or in this case, clueless go-between.
Actually, that last quote done up as a nice big sign that she can't help but see over your desk, MIGHT just send all the message you need....
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
wallinbl
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May 17, 2006, 05:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty
Sigh... I really hate working with people who want to have input when they don't understand what you have to do, or how much work goes into things that they take for granted.
You sound like you have a true servant's heart!
     
wallinbl
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May 17, 2006, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sourbook
My personal favorite is "It needs more oomph."
That's what we non-designers say to be nice instead of "it sucks".
     
ghporter
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May 17, 2006, 05:53 PM
 
How does this woman dress? Does she have ANY sense of style?

My mom was a commercial artist for over 30 years; I know something about color, pattern and style because I'd get "the look" if I tried something stupid like wearing conflicting colors, or patterns that didn't go-or didn't go very well. Because of this, I can at least appreciate good design. But I always fall back to "can this person dress himself without Garanimals labels?" to figure out whether something is "artistic" or just goofy.

So, if she dresses like she's colorblind or otherwise "style impaired," that's a bit of ammo for your "I think the customer is losing out because of her comments" discussion with a boss.

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Chuckit
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May 17, 2006, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl
That's what we non-designers say to be nice instead of "it sucks".
No, that's what non-designers say instead of "Can't there be an animated GIF of a ****ing hippo?"
Chuck
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Salty
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May 17, 2006, 06:00 PM
 
Actually I'd make a big print out of that big and red quote, and just hang it from your wall.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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May 17, 2006, 06:00 PM
 
My last boss what like that. Every time he saw white space he didn't understand how I could leave it empty and always had to mash in a picture or some giant pull quote. It was horribly irritating but nothing I could do about it other than trying to tell him the advantages of white space.

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
Salty
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May 17, 2006, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
My last boss what like that. Every time he saw white space he didn't understand how I could leave it empty and always had to mash in a picture or some giant pull quote. It was horribly irritating but nothing I could do about it other than trying to tell him the advantages of white space.
The advantages of white space?! Surely you jest! Dude.. seriously just... move that text here... make it bigger, make that bit... red... and you're good. See all full!
     
ort888
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May 17, 2006, 06:15 PM
 
Dude, you guys should see the stuff I work on. It looks like someone ate an entire flooring magazine and a box of crayons... then vomited on a sheet of paper. Seriously, it's that bad. Full page newspaper ads done in photoshop with 3 headlines, drop shadows everywhere, bevels, 20 room scenes, 40 prices, 12 guarantees, 6 icons on every photo and some more headlines to top it off. It's the print version of one of those shouting "Crazy Eddies Used Car Shack" commercials.

It's what my boss likes. Every time we try and steer things the other way, he keeps adding more. It's the most ridiculous thing you have ever seen. The sad thing is this, not only does it take 10 times as much work to make something like that look halfway decent, you end up with a portfolio filled with schlock. Ugh.

The really sad thing is that the job market here is terrible now so I am stuck here. The job itself isn't that bad really, it just sucks that I've been stuck here for so long. At least the hours are good and they are paying me a decent wage. I guess I can't complain that much.

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Chuckit
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May 17, 2006, 06:23 PM
 
Freelance on the side. While most places won't be hiring for full-time designers, there are usually still a few jobs here and there that you can use for your portfolio to show your work hasn't actually gone schlocky.
Chuck
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dav
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May 17, 2006, 06:40 PM
 
i've been pretty lucky. i know the type that makes arbitrary uninformed changes, but for the most part i'm left alone, and people are happy with my work.
one post closer to five stars
     
wallinbl
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May 17, 2006, 08:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888
The really sad thing is that the job market here is terrible now so I am stuck here.
Drawback of living on Uranus, I guess.
     
wallinbl
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May 17, 2006, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Every time he saw white space he didn't understand how I could leave it empty and always had to mash in a picture or some giant pull quote. It was horribly irritating but nothing I could do about it other than trying to tell him the advantages of white space.
Dude, you're paying for the space, you better fill it up! If not, you'd better get a discount for the parts you left empty.
     
 
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