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Colorado shooting during batman screening. 14 dead and over 50 injured.
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hyteckit
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Jul 20, 2012, 02:53 AM
 
A shooting at a screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" at a movie theatre in Aurora, Colorado early today has left at least 14 people dead and at least 50 people injured, authorities confirmed. Police now have now apprehended a 24-year-old male and recovered a gun after the shooting at approximately 12:30 a.m. CT at the Century 16 Movie Theaters at the Aurora Town Center in the Denver suburb.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooting-colorado-movie-theater-10-people-dead/story?id=16817842#.UAk4fKCCXzI

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-20/live-blog-aurora-shooting/4144558
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Jul 20, 2012, 03:26 AM
 
I wish all the idiots and loonies in my country could get guns really easily. Oh wait no, I really don't.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 20, 2012, 03:59 AM
 
what the hell is wrong with people.
     
subego
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Jul 20, 2012, 03:59 AM
 
I figured this would be PWL material in OP+1, but if I came here and said it, that would have made it OP+2.

This is also known as Heisenberg's hot button principle.
     
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Jul 20, 2012, 06:05 AM
 
This is extremely sad. Now people will be afraid to go to the moveis. My next comment will most likely get this moved to the PWL: The saddest thing about the whole situation is obviously that people had to die because of some most likely disgruntled guy (who is my age) decided he was pissed off at the world and this would some how "teach people a lesson". I almost wish he would have taken the "cowardly" way out and killed himself because I GUARANTEE he will put some sort of insanity plea or make a deal to where he won't get the death penalty. I just read that Colorado has only put one person to death since 1978. He obviously deserves death but instead will be living- having a bed and food to eat daily- for the rest of his life while we American's are paying for it.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 20, 2012, 06:22 AM
 
Given the amount of premeditation shown and the other guns/explosives in his house, I don't see how he can plead insanity. He knew what he was doing.
     
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Jul 20, 2012, 06:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Given the amount of premeditation shown and the other guns/explosives in his house, I don't see how he can plead insanity. He knew what he was doing.
This is true. There was definitely planning. I just have 0 faith in the justice system these days... Stuff like this makes me want to quit my current job and actually pursue a CJ (my major) career.
     
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Jul 20, 2012, 10:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post

what the hell is wrong with people.
Funny, those were the exacts words I uttered when I read this story in the morning.
     
reader50
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Jul 20, 2012, 10:50 AM
 
We need some nutjob control laws. But I'm coming up dry on what would work - from what I've read, the latest nut had no prior record. Maybe something will come up after they finish investigating him.
     
Shaddim
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Jul 20, 2012, 01:59 PM
 
My heart goes out to the victims and their families, I can't imagine why that area is such a lightning rod for such incidents.


Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I wish all the idiots and loonies in my country could get guns really easily. Oh wait no, I really don't.

They can, they just need a little more money than in the USA. I'd been in Birmingham less than two days and some guy who sounded like Boris the Blade offered to sell me a 9mm and a shotgun (for twice what they'd cost in America). Interestingly enough, one of the victims in Colorado just narrowly avoided being shot in an incident in Toronto a month ago. This has nothing to do with the availability of weapons and everything to do with this country's growing selfishness and sense of entitlement. These people feel that somehow everyone else owes them something, despite the fact they've done little to nothing to provide for themselves. To make matters worse, this guy was on a powertrip and wanted to induce terror, not only in that community, but in society as a whole, by targeting a venue that's a source of relaxation and escape. In his twisted mind he has a message, and I'm sure we'll hear all about it in the coming days and weeks.
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hyteckit  (op)
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Jul 20, 2012, 04:36 PM
 
Definitely a sense of entitlement and on a power trip.

A sense of entitlement of owning whatever arms you please such as guns, assault rifles, tear gas, and so forth.

Having an AR15 isn't about protection; it's about ego and power trip. Posing with the AR-15 and acting out their fantasies of being Rambo and some sort of badass.

Except this guy took it to the next level and acted out his power trip fantasies in real life. The weapons he has are the enablers.
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Jul 20, 2012, 04:58 PM
 
You want a law that will keep down the nut jobs? Start imprisoning all the people mentally ill enough to think that having an assault rifle is a human right.
     
hyteckit  (op)
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Jul 20, 2012, 05:15 PM
 
A sense of entitlement to carry your AR-15 openly in pubic.

A sense of entitlement to carry your AR-15 openly in a shopping mall.

A sense of entitlement to carry your AR-15 openly into a movie theater.
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Jul 20, 2012, 07:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Given the amount of premeditation shown and the other guns/explosives in his house, I don't see how he can plead insanity. He knew what he was doing.
Not that I think the guy has grounds to make an insanity plea, but premeditation doesn't say anything about the mental status of a person.
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Jul 20, 2012, 07:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Definitely a sense of entitlement and on a power trip.
A sense of entitlement of owning whatever arms you please such as guns, assault rifles, tear gas, and so forth.
Having an AR15 isn't about protection; it's about ego and power trip. Posing with the AR-15 and acting out their fantasies of being Rambo and some sort of badass.
Except this guy took it to the next level and acted out his power trip fantasies in real life. The weapons he has are the enablers.
Care to project any more about your inner fantasies?
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hyteckit  (op)
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Jul 20, 2012, 07:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Care to project any more about your inner fantasies?
Depends. Can you send me a picture of your wife?
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Shaddim
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Jul 21, 2012, 02:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Definitely a sense of entitlement and on a power trip.
A sense of entitlement of owning whatever arms you please such as guns, assault rifles, tear gas, and so forth.
Having an AR15 isn't about protection; it's about ego and power trip. Posing with the AR-15 and acting out their fantasies of being Rambo and some sort of badass.
Except this guy took it to the next level and acted out his power trip fantasies in real life. The weapons he has are the enablers.
Hogwash. He could have spent $200 at Wal-Mart and made a bomb that would have killed everyone in that theater, it isn't that hard, given the state of his apartment he has the expertise. Make very nasty shrapnel/chemical bomb with timer, put it in gym bag, bring it in the same way he brought in the guns, leave it on the floor, leave theater, drive home, watch the carnage on the news.

It isn't the means, it's the people. Does it all make more sense now?
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Jul 21, 2012, 03:26 AM
 
An aside...
There's an ad in rotation right now for Denny's. The set-up in the ad is that a man (at the counter at Denny's) asks "What makes America great?" And, several people, including some kids, rattle off their opinions, and then the guy says somethingsomething about Denny's meals.

Until yesterday, the ad included an older woman declaring "Our right to bear arms." That line was missing from the ad when I saw it run last night.
     
hyteckit  (op)
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Jul 21, 2012, 03:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Hogwash. He could have spent $200 at Wal-Mart and made a bomb that would have killed everyone in that theater, it isn't that hard, given the state of his apartment he has the expertise. Make very nasty shrapnel/chemical bomb with timer, put it in gym bag, bring it in the same way he brought in the guns, leave it on the floor, leave theater, drive home, watch the carnage on the news.
It isn't the means, it's the people. Does it all make more sense now?
So why didn't he?

Oh right. Because he was on a power trip, taking his fantasy of being Rambo or some bad ass with assault rifles, guns, and tear gas.

Just as guys owning AR15 go on a power trip and shooting things for fun, this nut took it to the next level and started shooting people for fun.

Easy access to AR15, rifles, glocks, tear gas, 6000 bullets, 100 round magazine clip, bullet proof vest, and gas mask allow him to live out his fantasy.

Thanks to the NRA.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Jul 21, 2012, 04:09 AM
 
Ok, I guess it's time to move this thread where it belongs … 
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Jul 21, 2012, 04:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I figured this would be PWL material in OP+1, but if I came here and said it, that would have made it OP+2.
This is also known as Heisenberg's hot button principle.
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Jul 21, 2012, 04:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Depends. Can you send me a picture of your wife?
This is reprehensible.
ebuddy
     
Shaddim
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Jul 21, 2012, 07:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
So why didn't he?
Oh right. Because he was on a power trip, taking his fantasy of being Rambo or some bad ass with assault rifles, guns, and tear gas.
Just as guys owning AR15 go on a power trip and shooting things for fun, this nut took it to the next level and started shooting people for fun.
Easy access to AR15, rifles, glocks, tear gas, 6000 bullets, 100 round magazine clip, bullet proof vest, and gas mask allow him to live out his fantasy.
Thanks to the NRA.
You still aren't getting it. Even if guns were illegal or inaccessible, he still would have killed people. The guy wired his home to explode, hoping to take out as many people as he could. He's a sick bastard, regardless of the weapon he used.

Besides, taking away guns is impossible. Even if you stopped new gun sales there are still enough out there to arm every person in the USA. Stop ammo sales? Already a quarter million tons in this country and brass is easy to acquire. Think you can just wish it all away? Good luck with that.
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Jul 21, 2012, 07:56 AM
 
Holmes has been describe as a brilliant science student and has a BS in neuroscience from UC Riverside. Holmes was enrolled in A Phd. program at the University of Colorado Denver/Anschutz Medical Campus. There's a thin line between genius and insanity, I guess he crossed over.
     
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Jul 21, 2012, 08:37 AM
 
This is terrible. In Belgium we had a similar lunatic who forced himself into a baby daycare center and stabbed and mutilated babies


this freak.

I don't think you can always stop these people, they act on their own. They live in a world of their own. They have no friends. They have weapons and anger.
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ebuddy
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Jul 21, 2012, 01:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by PB2K View Post
I don't think you can always stop these people, they act on their own. They live in a world of their own. They have no friends. They have weapons and anger.
Good points. If they have the mental wherewithal to take multiple lives, they'll try. This guy had mountains of crazy sh!t in his little apt. and there's everything to suggest he'd have used something much more devastating if given the chance.
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Jul 21, 2012, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Depends. Can you send me a picture of your wife?
Weird, but not infraction worthy at the moment -- peer scorn is sufficient.
     
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Jul 21, 2012, 05:54 PM
 
Simple make it illegal for new people to get guns. Require everyone who has a gun to get a psych evaluation, (and pay for it themselves!) Then if they don't return it if they fail the psych evaluation, just fine them a hell of a lot of money.
     
ebuddy
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Jul 21, 2012, 06:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Simple make it illegal for new people to get guns. Require everyone who has a gun to get a psych evaluation, (and pay for it themselves!) Then if they don't return it if they fail the psych evaluation, just fine them a hell of a lot of money.
Something tells me this quack could've played a perfectly good sane if called upon to do so. Besides, this is not as clearly defined as you might think and misjudgments on such things leads to classic civil rights abuses. Truth be told, given the nature of how the psycho rigged his apartment, he was more than capable of wreaking severe havoc on more than a single theatre of a movie complex. I'm horrified at the senseless nature of such violence, believe me, but using the logic I often see here -- we'd have to severely hamper internet access, metal of any kind, anything combustible, books, magazines...

Your heart can go out to each of the victims, their families, and their communities, while also acknowledging the incredible stories of fortune and selflessness to realize how exceedingly rare such monstrous acts truly are. Taking this or that away isn't going to fix the problem. If there's anything controllable at all, it happens much earlier than this.
ebuddy
     
Shaddim
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Jul 21, 2012, 06:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Something tells me this quack could've played a perfectly good sane if called upon to do so. Besides, this is not as clearly defined as you might think and misjudgments on such things leads to classic civil rights abuses. Truth be told, given the nature of how the psycho rigged his apartment, he was more than capable of wreaking severe havoc on more than a single theatre of a movie complex. I'm horrified at the senseless nature of such violence, believe me, but using the logic I often see here -- we'd have to severely hamper internet access, metal of any kind, anything combustible, books, magazines...
Your heart can go out to each of the victims, their families, and their communities, while also acknowledging the incredible stories of fortune and selflessness to realize how exceedingly rare such monstrous acts truly are. Taking this or that away isn't going to fix the problem. If there's anything controllable at all, it happens much earlier than this.
Brilliant.
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hyteckit  (op)
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Jul 22, 2012, 03:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
This is reprehensible.
Why?

Oldman was turned on by my inner fantasies and asking for more. He was sending me a flirt or poke. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting things. I thought we were flirting.

You can't believe the number of pokes I get on Facebook asking me to review my inner fantasies.
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hyteckit  (op)
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Jul 22, 2012, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You still aren't getting it. Even if guns were illegal or inaccessible, he still would have killed people.
I'm get your argument. But it had nothing to do with what I've said and what you've said.

You've said the reason why the guy brought a bunch of guns and bullets and starting killing people in the movie theater, is because he was on a power trip and had a sense of entitlement.

I agree and expanded on the argument that it was about him being on a power trip and wanting to shoot people with guns like he is Rambo or some bad ass.


Then you argue I'm wrong because he could've blown those people up in the movie theater with explosives.

Aren't we both saying the same thing that the reason why he brought a bunch of guns and bullets, and started shooting people was because he was on a power trip?


Sounds like you are disagreeing with yourself, just so you can argue with me.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Jul 22, 2012, 03:14 PM
 
I feel for all of the families and friends of the dead and injured. There is nothing to prepare someone for the scene so many people witnessed and will no doubt replay in their minds over and over again. The killer was crazy and no amount of gun control would have prevented him from killing people. He may not have used guns, but he was smart enough to make a bomb or even just block the emergency exit and start a fire.

I have a gun license (but don't own any guns) and support safe gun use. The system didn't fail here. There was no evidence he was crazy and he didn't have a police record. We always want to blame something, but in this case all of the blame rests solely on the shooter. I would say maybe we need more security, but given how inept the TSA policies are I don't have much faith in that being effective here.
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Jul 22, 2012, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You still aren't getting it. Even if guns were illegal or inaccessible, he still would have killed people. The guy wired his home to explode, hoping to take out as many people as he could. He's a sick bastard, regardless of the weapon he used.
Besides, taking away guns is impossible. Even if you stopped new gun sales there are still enough out there to arm every person in the USA. Stop ammo sales? Already a quarter million tons in this country and brass is easy to acquire. Think you can just wish it all away? Good luck with that.
Classic argument and a great point. But there's a classic counter point: would he have been able to kill *as many* people in so little time?
     
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Jul 22, 2012, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Classic argument and a great point. But there's a classic counter point: would he have been able to kill *as many* people in so little time?
I think so. A bomb or a fire could have killed even more people.
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subego
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Jul 22, 2012, 05:09 PM
 
Or a car.
     
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Jul 22, 2012, 06:18 PM
 
Yes it boils down to the same old tired arguments. The gun nuts claim that someone who wants to commit mass murder will find a way somehow, whether its guns, bombs, knives, cars, bricks or cheese. Then they ask if the liberals would have them ban all these household items just to be safe from dairy based killing sprees on the off chance but of course they overlook that these other items all have purposes that don't involve killing people and also they overlook the convenience and level of detachment involved.
I'm no psychiatrist but I would expect a large variation between the personalities of these shooting spree killers and those of terrorist bombers of any kind. A bomb is far less personal than murder by gun, a hammer is much more personal, or at least visceral.
Regardless, the gun nuts are never going to change their minds and give up their toys no matter how many people get massacred with them, so this 'classic' argument is as futile as all the others.


Its nice to see that the reported death toll has actually fallen. That doesn't happen often.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Jul 22, 2012, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yes it boils down to the same old tired arguments. The gun nuts claim that someone who wants to commit mass murder will find a way somehow, whether its guns, bombs, knives, cars, bricks or cheese. Then they ask if the liberals would have them ban all these household items just to be safe from dairy based killing sprees on the off chance but of course they overlook that these other items all have purposes that don't involve killing people and also they overlook the convenience and level of detachment involved.
I'm no psychiatrist but I would expect a large variation between the personalities of these shooting spree killers and those of terrorist bombers of any kind. A bomb is far less personal than murder by gun, a hammer is much more personal, or at least visceral.
Regardless, the gun nuts are never going to change their minds and give up their toys no matter how many people get massacred with them, so this 'classic' argument is as futile as all the others.
Its nice to see that the reported death toll has actually fallen. That doesn't happen often.
Whoa. Moving the goalposts.

I was responding to a specific question and now I'm being accused of my answer not measuring up to a metric which wasn't mentioned.
     
Shaddim
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Jul 22, 2012, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I'm get your argument. But it had nothing to do with what I've said and what you've said.
You've said the reason why the guy brought a bunch of guns and bullets and starting killing people in the movie theater, is because he was on a power trip and had a sense of entitlement.
I agree and expanded on the argument that it was about him being on a power trip and wanting to shoot people with guns like he is Rambo or some bad ass.
Then you argue I'm wrong because he could've blown those people up in the movie theater with explosives.
Aren't we both saying the same thing that the reason why he brought a bunch of guns and bullets, and started shooting people was because he was on a power trip?
Sounds like you are disagreeing with yourself, just so you can argue with me.
You don't have to have guns to fulfill a powertrip, there are people in Europe running into daycare centers hacking people apart with cleavers. You believe that if the weapons he had were illegal to own that this would have been averted, and that couldn't be further from the truth. Buying said weapons and ammo on the black market is too easy, given how much is out there. Plus, when they're bought through illegal channels the federal and state governments have no hope of tracking them at all. Prohibition didn't work, the "War on drugs" is a failure, and trying to ban firearms would be a disaster.
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Jul 22, 2012, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Classic argument and a great point. But there's a classic counter point: would he have been able to kill *as many* people in so little time?
A gym bag full of homemade plastic explosives and shrapnel? Yeah, personally I think that could be even more deadly.

I would never do such a thing, but given a couple weeks planning, some materials from Home Depot, and just a little patience, one person could have killed 50-75% of the people in 3-4 of those theaters, on the same night, at the same time.

It's a grisly thought and makes me want to keep my daughter at home until she's 30.
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Jul 23, 2012, 01:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Whoa. Moving the goalposts.
I was responding to a specific question and now I'm being accused of my answer not measuring up to a metric which wasn't mentioned.
I'm not moving any goalposts, Shaddim used the "would have found another way to kill" argument, I don't entirely agree with it. I think some would but many would probably not. Even if this point of view is 100% correct, it begs the question: Is America doing something wrong to create so many of these crazy killers? (And before everyone says it happens elsewhere too, I know this but it certainly seems to happen more often in the US.)

He also brings up another interesting point though, it would be valuable to compare the number of killing sprees where guns are used per capita to the number of killing sprees with other weapons per capita and then compare these results for various countries with different gun laws.
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Waragainstsleep
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Jul 23, 2012, 01:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
A gym bag full of homemade plastic explosives and shrapnel? Yeah, personally I think that could be even more deadly.
I would never do such a thing, but given a couple weeks planning, some materials from Home Depot, and just a little patience, one person could have killed 50-75% of the people in 3-4 of those theaters, on the same night, at the same time.
It's a grisly thought and makes me want to keep my daughter at home until she's 30.
Yes, to be honest I'm often surprised that fatality rates are as low as they are. If people really wanted to kill as many people as possible there is a lot of room for 'improvement' on their part. I guess they are unstable though.
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ghporter
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Jul 23, 2012, 02:35 AM
 
It was not about "access to firearms," it was about this one individual's intent to harm as many people as possible. Frankly, if the "gun nut" arguments about "he'd have found some other way" were that far off, then The Crown would not have found it necessary to start working on regulating kitchen knives, don't you think?

I think we are looking at an individual who has no chance to plead insanity, but who is also not mentally stable - very different things. He wanted to harm as many people as possible in a very public and showy way, and to do so, he came up with an elaborate plan which he has to have spent plenty of time working on. Until we know more about him, it is hard to say anything more of substance about the shooter and his motives.

Several years ago, two high school students came up with an unbalanced plan to kill as many people as possible at their school, and used both guns and explosives (which fortunately did not explode). In that case too, the shooters were acting on what appears to have been some sort of mental imagery about their acts, like they had an action movie scene playing in their heads. I think this is a similar case, and I think that when the guy is finally fully questioned, examined and so on, it will come out that he didn't think he'd be as dramatic driving an earthmover into a church...

I am sad for the victims and their families, and sad that the second or third thought most people had when they heard about this tragedy was not "how could this guy have done this?" but rather "damn those guns!" John Wayne Gacy didn't use guns. The "Hillside Strangler" didn't use guns. But the knee jerk reaction of the masses (fueled by the habitual angle from the media) is that it was "easy access to guns." Where did this guy get his ideas, how did he get this far in building explosives and incendiaries, where did he lose touch with the world the rest of us live in? Those are the real points to ponder, and I hope we eventually find answers to those questions.

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Shaddim
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Jul 23, 2012, 04:21 AM
 
That's exactly the point. Where's the disconnect? Why is this intent there in the first place? I'm sure that a large portion of the problem is poor parenting and not having a positive social support structure, but I'm also starting to think about "our" glorification of violence and the belief that there's nothing more important than yourself and what you want. A friend of mine quoted this yesterday when we were talking about the subject.

"You sharpen the human appetite to the point where it can split atoms with its desire; you build egos the size of cathedrals; fiber-optically connect the world to every eager impulse; grease even the dullest dreams with these dollar-green, gold-plated fantasies, until every human becomes an aspiring emperor, becomes his own God... and where can you go from there?"

Seems that almost every child is now raised to believe that they're a prince or princess, a unique snowflake, and they grow up thinking "it isn't fair" if their desires aren't fulfilled on a whim, or if the world isn't exactly the way they want it to be.
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Waragainstsleep
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Jul 23, 2012, 04:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Frankly, if the "gun nut" arguments about "he'd have found some other way" were that far off, then The Crown would not have found it necessary to start working on regulating kitchen knives, don't you think?
What "The Crown" finds it "necessary" to do is neither here nor there. That said, if everyone here walked around with a large knife on their person, I would logically expect the rate of random stabbings to increase.

Its not just a question of availability and responsibility, its how ingrained guns are in your society. Over here, I'm sure people think "It would be so cool to wander through school/work and gun down all those people I hate, that'd show them." The difference is that over here you don't get this "oh, wait I actually could do that very easily." as the follow up thought. The thought occurs but the actual possibility doesn't. A big part of this is because we don't all have regular contact with guns and have to go out of our way a bit in order to do so. If you restrict access, people will eventually get used to it and the mindset will begin to change.
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OldManMac
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Jul 23, 2012, 05:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yes it boils down to the same old tired arguments. The gun nuts claim that someone who wants to commit mass murder will find a way somehow, whether its guns, bombs, knives, cars, bricks or cheese.
Most people who own a gun are not "gun nuts," and your use of the term shows how impartial and well thought out your points really are.


Then they ask if the liberals would have them ban all these household items just to be safe from dairy based killing sprees on the off chance but of course they overlook that these other items all have purposes that don't involve killing people and also they overlook the convenience and level of detachment involved.
Huh?

I'm no psychiatrist but I would expect a large variation between the personalities of these shooting spree killers and those of terrorist bombers of any kind.

But that doesn't stop you from playing one.

A bomb is far less personal than murder by gun, a hammer is much more personal, or at least visceral.
Interesting point. Was it derived from your your psychiatric training. A planned death is a death.


Regardless, the gun nuts are never going to change their minds and give up their toys no matter how many people get massacred with them, so this 'classic' argument is as futile as all the others.

Again, most gun owners are not "gun nuts." They are responsible adults, who have licenses to own, and often, carry, their weapons, and treat them accordingly. Society is always going to have it's share of mentally unbalanced individuals, who, for whatever reason, feel a need to extract vengeance against others. Those are the "gun nuts," and the rest of us aren't to be lumped in the same category, just because you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. FBI statistics show that violent crime, including homicide, have declined steadily in the last thirty or so years, while gun ownership has increased significantly. There are approximately 80 million of your "gun nuts" in America, who own approximately 250 million weapons, yet you're safer today than you were thirty years ago from "gun nuts," which shows exactly how uninformed you are on the subject.


Its nice to see that the reported death toll has actually fallen. That doesn't happen often.
It actually happens frequently, due to media sensationalism. It's just that people such as yourself are so eager to pick up on quick talking points, rather than digesting the whole picture, that you don't see it.
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SSharon
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Jul 23, 2012, 06:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yes it boils down to the same old tired arguments. The gun nuts claim that someone who wants to commit mass murder will find a way somehow, whether its guns, bombs, knives, cars, bricks or cheese.
I hope you aren't including me in the "gun nut" category. As I said earlier I have a gun license, but don't own any guns. If I ever do get a gun it will be for target practice and not for home or self defense. I enjoy shooting as a sport and many others do as well. The argument that guns have no other purpose other than to kill people is patently false and therefore the analogy to cars/knives/cows/etc., while stretched, is still fair. Knives may have more uses that don't relate to murder, but I don't think there is a cutoff number of non-murderous functions that a device must have to be legal.

Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Most people who own a gun are not "gun nuts," and your use of the term shows how impartial and well thought out your points really are.
Exactly. I said it before and I'll say it again. The (gun licensing) system didn't fail here. Our system of detecting crazies and securing public areas failed.
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BadKosh
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Jul 23, 2012, 08:00 AM
 
Isn't there some sort of laws that protects mental patients from someone finding out they are ...less than sane...? That seems to be part of the issue. Parhaps if MORE PEOPLE brought weird-ohs to the attention of the law etc?
     
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Jul 23, 2012, 08:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Isn't there some sort of laws that protects mental patients from someone finding out they are ...less than sane...? That seems to be part of the issue. Parhaps if MORE PEOPLE brought weird-ohs to the attention of the law etc?
I do not want some suit in some office somewhere deciding whether or not I am sane. That would be more cause for mass shootings (think of the DMV but for deciding your mental capacity). (Too Soon?)

This would only address symptoms and not the root problem. I'm with gh et al that this starts early. Much earlier than a few months before the shooting. The only thing that would have changed would CNN would not be able to blast 'GUNS PURHCASED LEGALLY" across the bottom on their screen for 36 hours. They would have to put "GUNS OBTAINED ILLEGALLY" in its place.
     
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Jul 23, 2012, 08:36 AM
 
Tangental question: How come we haven't see a mugshot of the guy? Local laws? Seems like every time a celeb gets a DUI the mugshot is there for everyone the next day but on this, bupkis.
     
 
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