[Eug]

I found this posted in another forum:

[lewdvig]

Looks like BGA Level 3 DDR cache. Good stuff.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by lewdvig:
Looks like BGA Level 3 DDR cache. Good stuff.

I thought the G5's didn't have any L3 cache?

-Jerry C.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Hydra:
I thought the G5's didn't have any L3 cache?

They don't.

[ckohler]

This may be a common question, but do the single processor G5's have a place to plug in a second processor?

[Hydra]

Originally posted by ckohler:
This may be a common question, but do the single processor G5's have a place to plug in a second processor?

There is a pad on the MB where the socket goes but Apple doesn't put a socket on the MB. It is unlikely one could be added w/o a machine soldering the connections.

-Jerry C.

[JustinD]

Looks like BGA Level 3 DDR cache. Good stuff.

__________________
Desktop 1: Apple PowerMac Sawtooth
with PowerLogix dual CPU upgrade
2x800MHz, 1GB RAM, 160GB RAID 0,
120GB Storage, Superdrive, RADEON
8500, OS X.2.6

Desktop 2: P4 2.4C @ 3.36GHz on a MSI
875P Neo, 2x512MB of Kingmax
PC3200, ATI RADEON 9800 Pro (stock),
Enermax Whisper 365 PSU, IBM
GXP75 46GB HD, Western Digital 80GB
Caviar 7200rpm ATA100 8MBcache,
WinXP SP1

Desktop 3: P4 1.6A, MSI 845E, Saphire
8500LE, 20GB Maxtor, WinXP SP1

Laptop 1: Compaq Presario 2800C
Laptop with ATI RADEON 7500M, 32
mb, 512mb DDR RAM, WinXP SP1,
looking for a PB owner to trade with.

"Good stuff"? Okeee, whatever you say. But as mentioned above, the G5 has no L3 cache. Ease up on the bull, Signature Boy.

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by JustinD:
"Good stuff"? Okeee, whatever you say. But as mentioned above, the G5 has no L3 cache. Ease up on the bull, Signature Boy.

BGA = Ball Grid Array - this is the best manufacturing method for RAM right now. It looks exactly like the four square chips on the left side.

Sorry if I am wrong. I did not realize that this board was patrolled by uber homos like you.

As for the sig - whatever. Four lines it is then, but that is not much fun.

[JustinD]

BGA = Ball Grid Array - this is the best manufacturing method for RAM right now. It looks exactly like the four square chips on the left side.

Indeedy. Then again I don't think any manufacturer typing out a next-gen daughtercard would actually use PGA components, now would they?

Sorry if I am wrong. I did not realize that this board was patrolled by uber homos like you.

Uber Homo? =) Haha. Do you always perceive critics as 'homos'?

As for the sig - whatever. Four lines it is then, but that is not much fun.

Kinda foolish, having a sig longer than your message, eh?

[SillyMe]

Originally posted by lewdvig:
I did not realize that this board was patrolled by uber homos like you.

I didn't realize George Bush read Macnn!

[benh57]

Originally posted by SillyMe:
I didn't realize George Bush read Macnn!

I read a while back that there are more macs in the Bush white house than ever before.

Can't find where I read it in google though. It was a few months after the 2000 election I believe.

Its really the only positive thing I can think of that he's done..

[rlmorel]

Eug,
Thanks for the link. Very nice hardware.

Will some of you people lighten up? This is a Mac forum. I would like read about the item of hardware without wading through posts from people who have staked their entire ego and being on a political process.

[glideslope]

It's difficult to keep any topic in MacNN from drifting into sexual name calling. It usually consists of " Your a homo." Followed by "So?"

Really gets tiring.

[KidRed]

Originally posted by glideslope:
It's difficult to keep any topic in MacNN from drifting into sexual name calling. It usually consists of " Your a homo." Followed by "So?"

Really gets tiring.

Shut up homo.

[RooneyX]

Put it in your Powerbook!

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by lewdvig:
Sorry if I am wrong. I did not realize that this board was patrolled by uber homos like you.

Actually this board isn't patrolled by homosexuals, however if you try the lounge there are several very vocal ones... some of which are OK... some of which make you wanna pull your hair out.

[Taipan]

Originally posted by JustinD:
Uber Homo? =) Haha. Do you always perceive critics as 'homos'?

Hi!

Maybe I don't get it, but I thought when he said "homo" he meant it like in "homo sapiens", not in "homosexual".

[Eug]

Akebono will 0wn j00 if you don't stop cr@pping in my thread!

[Eug]

With heatsink:

[videian28]

you cannot add a second processor, I called apple on that a while ago

foolish if you ask me, I definatly would have bought a g5 instead of a dual 1.4 if I knew I could upgrade it later

[dannyillusion]

Holy crap!!!
And people are waiting for new G5 powerbooks...
I guess we're going to see a very new and interesting form factor.
That thing looks like it wouldn't even fit in my old Classic II.

[ckohler]

Shortly after the WWDC announcement, CNET had a video interview on thier site with Greg Joswiak. When asked about a possible G5 Powerbook he said, "The PowerMac G5 has a very high power processor. [...] It's probably not going into a Powerbook anytime soon."

The video is still on their site if you do a search for it.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Actually this board isn't patrolled by homosexuals, however if you try the lounge there are several very vocal ones... some of which are OK... some of which make you wanna pull your hair out.

Beats having to listen to you Christian fundamentalists...

[Simon]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Beats having to listen to you Christian fundamentalists...

LOL. Nice one.

Therefore, let's keep the lounge out of here, OK?

[bartman00]

so.. now that we've got the name calling out of the way what the heck are those black things? They do look like BGA ram chips.. but as said it dosn't have L3 cache.. and they have some massive cooling attached to them! Copper heat spreader attached to a heat pipe!

What are they? Voltage regs or something? intersting to see they still use the "sawtooth" mounting system.

Bart

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Beats having to listen to you Christian fundamentalists...

As Christian homo I resent that!

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by Eug:
With heatsink:

Awesome! Notice the copper heat pipe. This is a seriously well engineered piece of kit. The Intel guys sould learn a thing or two from Ivy. The P5 chip dissapates 82 Watts at idle. Hot! They will need a design like this.

I am sure the folks at PowerLogix will figure out a way to get a dual CPU upgrade to the 1.6 and 1.8 owners eventually. Remember, when the 970 changes to a smaller manufacturing process heat dissapation should improve. It might be possible to fit two CPUs on a single daughtercard and cool them. Who knows.

Who knows - IBM could go dual or multi core and make the job a lot easier.

[Brazuca]

There are some people saying that they may be capacitors or the like. Check out Ars.

[nobitacu]

Nice picture.

Ming

[himself]

Originally posted by Eug:
I found this posted in another forum:

It's still hard for me to understand how such a relatively tiny processor can get so hot... and yet they don't melt...

[Spliffdaddy]

Those chips are components for the CPU's onboard voltage regulator. This allows the motherboard to output just one standard voltage to the CPU daughtercard, then the onboard regulator satisfies the power requirements for the CPU. Since processors within the same family can require different core voltages, having the voltage regulator on the CPU module itself makes sense.
Usually, the voltage regulator is built-in to the motherboard. It must be able to provide a wide variety of voltage settings in order to support CPUs with differing voltage requirements. What happens if your motherboard's voltage regulator doesn't provide the option of 1.625 volts that may be required by tomorrow's faster Pentium4, for example? You're outta luck. Sometimes you can't plan for the unknown. By making a CPU that comes complete with it's own onboard voltage regulator, you won't have that worry. Some models of Pentium2&3 Xeons incorporated onboard voltage regulators similar to the present-day G5. The motherboard simply fed the CPU a diet of 5 volts (or 12) - no matter what. The Xeon's VRM (voltage regulator module) turned that voltage into the necessary 2.8v (or whatever) to the core.
Some older motherboards had sockets for plug-in VRMs. You had to match the VRM's output to the CPU's requirement. Primative.
By the way, the G5 heatsink (shown in the picture above) incorporates 3 heatpipes - not just the one you can see. There are two more that rise vertically from the face of the CPU through the horizontal fins of the heatsink.

What's a heatpipe? It's a device that can transfer heat better than copper. One-thousand times better.

Just remember that steam can carry a LOT of heat. And remember that water and other liquids can be incited to boil (thus create steam) at lower temperatures when placed in a vacuum. That's how the liquid in a heatpipe can 'boil' even at 100F degrees. Keep this in mind while you read the following article about heatpipes...

http://home.carolina.rr.com/hillbilly/heat/heatpipe.htm

Check out the date on that article. Heatpipes are old technology, actually.

[Simon]

Originally posted by himself:
It's still hard for me to understand how such a relatively tiny processor can get so hot... and yet they don't melt...

Well, if you let them run w/o cooling they actually will melt.

[Eug]

Since processors within the same family can require different core voltages, having the voltage regulator on the CPU module itself makes sense.
Usually, the voltage regulator is built-in to the motherboard. It must be able to provide a wide variety of voltage settings in order to support CPUs with differing voltage requirements. What happens if your motherboard's voltage regulator doesn't provide the option of 1.625 volts that may be required by tomorrow's faster Pentium4, for example?

I don't know, but that doesn't make sense to me. It would seem easier to have a VRM on the mobo. It's not like PCs where you're trying to run a Pentium III Katmai/III Coppermine/III Tualatin all off the same mobo. Apple runs with a limited set of CPUs and Apple makes all the hardware anyway so they can build the mobo to suit their needs.

Building a more complex custom daughtercard seems like it would mainly serve to A) make it more expensive and B) Make it more difficult to build CPU upgrades.

Or are you suggesting that we'll get a die shrink very soon and will be running 90 nm lower voltage chips by early 2004? If so, having the VRM on the daughtercard may actually make it easier not only for Apple, but also for a 3rd party upgrade, since you won't run into VRM issues in the future (assuming everything else is compatible).

Another question: Where does the daughtercard electrically attach to the mobo? Is it that rectangular structure on the right?



And what is that 3rd heatpipe on the left cooling anyway? It's not anywhere near the CPU. I didn't know VRMs needed cooling.

Also, where is the multiplier controlled? If it's on the upgrade card, it would make for a much simpler upgrade path.

[Spliffdaddy]

The voltage regulator circuit generates significant heat (The CPU draws several amps of current). Its placement on the CPU daughtercard would remove some heat from the motherboard and situate the VR components in a location where they could be more easily cooled. Also, it's easier to make a daughtercard with an updated voltage regulator than it is to make changes to an existing voltage regulator circuit mounted on the motherboard. Months from now, when IBM releases an updated PPC970, Apple will be less likely to have to make changes to its existing hardware in order to accomodate it. As long as the updated CPU is 'pin-compatible' and otherwise similar in function, that is.

Where does the daughtercard electrically attach to the motherboard? It appears to plug into the connector on the right hand side, as you described. A newfangled NU_BUS-looking header. That daughtercard shares a striking resemblance to a SUN UltraSPARC2i, by the way.

edited to add:

I would guess that the CPU multiplier ratio is controlled by the motherboard's firmware. That doesn't mean it will be fully adjustable. Most current x86 processors are 'multiplier-locked' on-the-chip and they ignore any attempt at being changed by the firmware. I'll continue guessing by adding that I think the G5's multiplier can be adjusted within a range of values - none of them exceeding the default speed of the core itself. Limiting the ability to overclock the CPU is in the best interest of both IBM and Apple.

PS, the G5's heatsink assembly was probably manufactured by Thermacore Inc, USA. Makers of heatpiped cooling solutions for damn near everything that needs one. More info about the G5's heatsink assembly could be obtained from Thermacore - assuming they manufactured it. http://www.thermacore.com/


Still interested in the topic of CPU heat removal?

read on...

http://tima.imag.fr/Conferences/ther...ers/YJoshi.pdf

[lewdvig]

All those smooth machined surfaces are turning me on!