Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > What's the point of "Digital Copies" on DVD?

What's the point of "Digital Copies" on DVD?
Thread Tools
TheSpaz
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 04:34 PM
 
I just bought Juno on DVD today and it was the Special Edition version that comes with a digital copy. Here are some facts about it:

The movie comes with 2 DVD's one has the actual DVD movie on it and one has ONLY a SCRIPT to launch iTunes.

Once you open iTunes, you are taken to the iTunes Music Store and presented with a field where you must enter your unique DVD confirmation code (to prove you bought the DVD).

Then you must DOWNLOAD the digital copy from iTunes (actual DVD disk has nothing on it but the launch iTunes script).

Once you've downloaded the movie, you'll notice that it is protected with your name and iTunes email address.

I have some questions about this:

1. Why do they print a whole separate DVD for the little 400k launch iTunes script on it? It seems like a HUGE waste.

2. The movie's not even on the disc, you have to have an internet connection to even download it

3. It will NOT play on older iPods because the resolution is too high (it does not state this anywhere on the box... it says any iPod that can play video).

4. I can get the same exact digital copy by ripping the movie with Handbrake, so why would I even need the protected digital copy anyway?

It all just seems like a big waste. I mean, they could have printed on the box to go to iTunes and enter the code that's in the box. They could treat it like a coupon so that only 1 copy can be downloaded per code.
     
Art Vandelay
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New York, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 04:40 PM
 
The movie is on the disc, it's just hidden. iTunes is copying the file from the disc to your library. The internet connection is to register that movie to you so it can't be used by anyone else.
Vandelay Industries
     
Peter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England | San Francisco
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 04:41 PM
 
the cost of that dvd < having a few idiot users not sure where to go in iTunes and requiring tech support.

Hold-your-hand-syndrome
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
The movie is on the disc, it's just hidden. iTunes is copying the file from the disc to your library. The internet connection is to register that movie to you so it can't be used by anyone else.
That's what I thought too but, I used the terminal to do an "ls" on the disk and the only thing on there was the iTunes script. Then, I looked through the package contents of the script and I didn't see any 1GB files in there... so even if it were encrypted, it would still show the size of the video right?

Then, after I entered the code, it started "downloading" from the internet. I could see my Download speed and everything... and it was nowhere near the download speed of a disk to disk file transfer.
     
Mithras
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: :ИOITAↃO⅃
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 04:49 PM
 
They want to watermark & encrypt your file for your iTunes account. So this is the way they do it. As for putting the whole thing on a second DVD, well, blame management.
     
::maroma::
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PDX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 05:09 PM
 
Could it be that the decision to include a digital copy was made after the main DVD discs were pressed? Therefor they had to include a separate disc with that tiny file rather than trash all of those pressed DVDs and make more?

Just a guess.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 05:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
Could it be that the decision to include a digital copy was made after the main DVD discs were pressed? Therefor they had to include a separate disc with that tiny file rather than trash all of those pressed DVDs and make more?

Just a guess.
That's a good guess but, aren't they still wasting the same amount of DVDs by making the extra DVD?
     
::maroma::
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PDX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz View Post
That's a good guess but, aren't they still wasting the same amount of DVDs by making the extra DVD?
Possibly, but I would guess that manufacturing those extra discs was much cheaper than scrapping the lot of DVDs already made, and creating brand new ones.

But I'm no expert on this subject. Just playin' Devil's Advocate here.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
Possibly, but I would guess that manufacturing those extra discs was much cheaper than scrapping the lot of DVDs already made, and creating brand new ones.

But I'm no expert on this subject. Just playin' Devil's Advocate here.
I understand. I'm not saying you're wrong... just thinking, that's all.
     
ort888
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 06:07 PM
 
For savvy users who know how to use handbrake... it serves no purpose what-so-ever.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
moonmonkey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
For savvy users who know how to use handbrake... it serves no purpose what-so-ever.
Handbrake can't rip all copy protected DVD's, some newer discs don't work with Handbrake.
     
Art Vandelay
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New York, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 07:43 PM
 
It's on the disc. Do a "ls -a" to see invisible files.
Vandelay Industries
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 15, 2008, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
It's on the disc. Do a "ls -a" to see invisible files.
I will try that... thanks!

Edit: You're right... I found the 1.1GB file on the disc and copied it to my hard drive but, the file doesn't want to open in anything and I even tried renaming it to .m4v, but that didn't work either. I guess it's encrypted like I figured. Nice to know that it's on the disc and not downloaded from the net. Cool!
( Last edited by TheSpaz; Apr 15, 2008 at 10:05 PM. )
     
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 03:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz View Post
4. I can get the same exact digital copy by ripping the movie with Handbrake, so why would I even need the protected digital copy anyway?
Um, because circumventing copy protection is illegal in many places on this planet, including North America and most of Europe?
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Um, because circumventing copy protection is illegal in many places on this planet, including North America and most of Europe?
Okay... if it's so illegal to rip DVDs, how come the developers of Handbrake don't get in trouble?

Also, if you paid for the DVD disc, I don't think it's illegal to copy it to your computer just as long as it's for personal use only. I mean, think about emulator roms... it's not illegal if you own the system and the games and want to play them on your computer... but, it is illegal if you did not pay for them some way or another.

It's not illegal to copy a DVD to a VSH tape... so it shouldn't be illegal to copy a DVD to an iPod.
     
King Bob On The Cob
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz View Post
Okay... if it's so illegal to rip DVDs, how come the developers of Handbrake don't get in trouble?

Also, if you paid for the DVD disc, I don't think it's illegal to copy it to your computer just as long as it's for personal use only. I mean, think about emulator roms... it's not illegal if you own the system and the games and want to play them on your computer... but, it is illegal if you did not pay for them some way or another.

It's not illegal to copy a DVD to a VSH tape... so it shouldn't be illegal to copy a DVD to an iPod.
Different Laws. DMCA has a clause saying it's illegal to break encryption, so if you remove said encryption, you are breaking the law in the United States. It's been tried and 321 lost the case and had to stop selling their DVD copying software. Recording to a VHS doesn't break encryption, therefore it is OK. (Unless you have a VCR that removes Macrovision, in which case, it's illegal again).
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 11:26 AM
 
I've never seen anyone ever get in trouble for putting movies on their iPods. Also, how is it that copyrighted material is always found on YouTube?... that blows my mind that there isn't a stronger filter on that stuff.
     
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz View Post
Okay... if it's so illegal to rip DVDs, how come the developers of Handbrake don't get in trouble?
To be honest, I'm not sure.

There's enough places where it's not illegal, and I'm not sure how effectively this sort of thing can be enforced in open-source software.

However, it's hosted in France, which definitely is subject to European DRM laws.

I'm not sure of the precise state regarding the CSS encryption on DVDs in the EU at the moment, though, since individual EU states are starting to question the sense behind it:
Finland court: Breaking "ineffective" copy protection is permissible

Originally Posted by TheSpaz View Post
Also, if you paid for the DVD disc, I don't think it's illegal to copy it to your computer just as long as it's for personal use only.
Yes it is. What you "think" is irrelevant.
Anti-circumvention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 01:35 PM
 
It is not illegal to make a backup copy of a DVD you purchased. It is, however, illegal to circumvent the encryption. So by circumventing the encryption (even to legally backup a DVD) is illegal. You can thank the DMCA.

I've found the best way to get around that is to just make a disk image of the DVD in its entirety. The encryption is included on the disk image so you're not circumventing anything, and you get to make a backup of your movie. The downside is 5GB to 10GB movies for a single disc, so you need a very large HDD to store them. With terabyte HDDs being very affordable, you can back up 150 to 200 movies. Well worth it in my opinion.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
It is not illegal to make a backup copy of a DVD you purchased. It is, however, illegal to circumvent the encryption. So by circumventing the encryption (even to legally backup a DVD) is illegal. You can thank the DMCA.

I've found the best way to get around that is to just make a disk image of the DVD in its entirety. The encryption is included on the disk image so you're not circumventing anything, and you get to make a backup of your movie. The downside is 5GB to 10GB movies for a single disc, so you need a very large HDD to store them. With terabyte HDDs being very affordable, you can back up 150 to 200 movies. Well worth it in my opinion.
The only other legal option to get a backup copy over here in Germany would be to pirate it off the internet, since (apparently) downloading itself is not illegal; only sharing is.

Completely perverse, but deliciously ironic.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 10:41 PM
 
Update: The movie resolution of the digital file is 853x461 and the 5th Gen iPods can play it! I just copied it to my 5G iPod and it works perfectly... WHAT? How is this possible. I thought the highest resolution that these iPods could play is 640x480... now they can play 853x461? I don't get it!
( Last edited by TheSpaz; Apr 17, 2008 at 11:05 PM. )
     
vmarks
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 11:30 PM
 
thespaz,

you're not taking into account bitrate. the lower the bitrate, the higher the pixel resolution you can play.
     
brassplayersrock²
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 17, 2008, 11:49 PM
 
i just saw a blu-ray movie that has a digital copy of the movie. does that mean that if your computer doesn't do blu-ray that means you can get the movie on your computer still but in dvd quality?
     
TheSpaz  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 18, 2008, 09:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks View Post
thespaz,

you're not taking into account bitrate. the lower the bitrate, the higher the pixel resolution you can play.
I think I figured out why it will play. The movie dimensions are actually 640x461 and it is anamorphically stretched to 853x461 for viewing. That would be why it plays on the 5G iPod because it still sees it as matching the specs.
     
Drakino
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 20, 2008, 01:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
i just saw a blu-ray movie that has a digital copy of the movie. does that mean that if your computer doesn't do blu-ray that means you can get the movie on your computer still but in dvd quality?
Yep. The BluRay movies with Digital Copy have the same Digital Copy DVD inside and code that the DVD movie releases have. It's a nice way to allow people to still watch movies on their laptops while on flights or something without needing a BluRay drive.
<This space under renovation>
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:32 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,