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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Ooops! Californians won't be getting their tax rebates

Ooops! Californians won't be getting their tax rebates (Page 2)
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hyteckit
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Jan 23, 2009, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
You are aware that every President is going to do certain things to keep the opposing party at bay, right?

That particular move on Bush's part was likely a bad one.

I'm not saying the CRA doesn't still exist. I'm saying it played a massive role in the mortgage meltdown, by being leveraged by Bill Clinton to bully banks into approving loans to people who couldn't afford them.

If you are low-income and you can't afford a house. Rent. Period. The government is in no way obligated to ensure that you can purchase a home. Hell, the government isn't even obligated to put a roof over your head.
So you are just making assumptions that CRA is largely responsible because that's what you want to believe.

What percentage of home mortgage loans were a result of CRA?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
shifuimam
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Jan 23, 2009, 06:47 PM
 
You know what? I'm going to let you do that research.

Have fun.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
hyteckit
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Jan 23, 2009, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
You know what? I'm going to let you do that research.

Have fun.
It accounts for 5%.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Jan 23, 2009, 06:52 PM
 
How's it going sweetie pie? There, I didn't call you sweetie. Like you asked.
     
hyteckit
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Jan 23, 2009, 07:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
How's it going sweetie pie? There, I didn't call you sweetie. Like you asked.
Hi sweetie. Thanks for asking. Much love and kisses.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
stumblinmike
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Jan 23, 2009, 07:45 PM
 
I would rather read a million hyteckit posts than one shifui one....just my opinion
     
turtle777
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Jan 23, 2009, 08:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by stumblinmike View Post
I would rather read a million hyteckit posts than one shifui one....just my opinion
That reveals more about your state of mind that shifui's posts.

-t
     
ghporter
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Jan 24, 2009, 12:36 PM
 
The only flame baiting I am seeing is coming from the person complaining about flame baiting.

"Regulation" in the classic form enacted by various US legislatures and the US Congress consists mainly of record keeping and reporting-of stuff that maybe was useful or interesting 20 years ago, or of stuff that keeps pork barrels rolling. What's been missing is "oversight." Like "hey, those zillion home loans you just made? How many are you really expecting to be paid, and how many are you planning on writing off, and oh by the way how do you expect to deal with the financials of writing off something like half a billion in assets?" That sort of oversight has been deemphasized (read "under staffed, under funded and under utilized") since the savings and loan crisis. We need OVERSIGHT to keep bank loan officers from believing their own hype.

Oh and the Community Reinvestment Act DID put pressure on lenders to give poor risk customers a chance. But not at the cost of putting the whole institution at risk. That was the institutions' executives. I smell greed and arrogance rather than the spirit of "let's see if we can make these regulations work to our advantage" in this. Note that it wasn't until someone invented a few "investment instruments" based entirely on sub-prime mortgages that the whole sub-prime thing started its flat spin into failure. More greed and less intelligence, coupled with an abundance of ignorance of what the instruments really stood for. Was it Pickens who said that he would never invest in something he couldn't explain in less than a minute? A lot of people seem to have bought those mortgage instruments without even understanding what a mortgage was, let alone how much risk was involved in the ones they were betting on.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
hyteckit
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Jan 24, 2009, 06:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The only flame baiting I am seeing is coming from the person complaining about flame baiting.
I remember getting this infraction for asking railHead about copyright:

Following railHEAD from forum to forum and posting with personal antagonism towards him is not furthering discussion, and it's breaking our forum rules.
So now it's okay for turtle777 to following me from thread to thread posting the word "FAIL"?

Okay, just want to know. Not entirely surprise. I'll remember as long as I'm using the word "FAIL" in every thread, I'm A-OK.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
hyteckit
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Jan 24, 2009, 06:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
That reveals more about your state of mind that shifui's posts.

-t
This reveals more about your state of mind than stumblinmike's post.

shifui's posts are always filled with half-facts with no solid evidence to back it up.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
turtle777
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Jan 24, 2009, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
This reveals more about your state of mind than stumblinmike's post.


-t
     
ghporter
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Jan 24, 2009, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I remember getting this infraction for asking railHead about copyright:



So now it's okay for turtle777 to following me from thread to thread posting the word "FAIL"?

Okay, just want to know. Not entirely surprise. I'll remember as long as I'm using the word "FAIL" in every thread, I'm A-OK.
Note that you cannot see what action is taken towards other members. And don't think that just because I don't say something publicly that nothing is happening. Another such post will get you an infraction for Defying Moderation. Clear?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
hyteckit
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Jan 24, 2009, 10:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Note that you cannot see what action is taken towards other members. And don't think that just because I don't say something publicly that nothing is happening. Another such post will get you an infraction for Defying Moderation. Clear?
You're right that I don't know what action is being taken towards other members.

But I'm responding to your comment:

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The only flame baiting I am seeing is coming from the person complaining about flame baiting.

I'm responding to your statement, not your actions.

I don't know what actions you took, but I do know what statements you have made publicly.

So, do you still feel turtle777 wasn't flame baiting or did anything wrong by following me from thread to thread posting "FAIL"? I merely responding to your comment. Or do you just want to threaten me with infractions?
( Last edited by hyteckit; Jan 24, 2009 at 10:13 PM. )
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
ghporter
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Jan 24, 2009, 10:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
You're right that I don't know what action is being taken towards other members.

But I'm responding to your comment:

I'm responding to your statement, not your actions.

I don't know what actions you took, but I do know what statements you have made publicly.

So, do you still feel turtle777 wasn't flame baiting or did anything wrong by following me from thread to thread posting "FAIL"? I merely responding to your comment. Or do you just want to threaten me with infractions?
My action was intended to DEESCALATE what I saw as a problem. Your posts looked like flame bait, while you were reporting others for posting flame bait. And your posts were becoming more and more strident. I used MY post to publicly call attention to the issue. You were, in a way, an object lesson.

I feel turtle777 was being annoying, and not much more, but I have asked him to stop making such posts (something you didn't see). And I do not threaten. I warn.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
turtle777
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Jan 24, 2009, 11:05 PM
 
For what it's worth: I did get a warning, and I did knock it off.

Glenn is, as always, impartial, and handling this very professionally.

-t
     
Doofy  (op)
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Jan 24, 2009, 11:07 PM
 
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd the residents of Granola Land still ain't getting their tax rebates.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
ghporter
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Jan 24, 2009, 11:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd the residents of Granola Land still ain't getting their tax rebates.
Annnnnnnnnnnnd back on track!!!

I think this should serve as an object lesson on voting for "bread and circuses." The citizens of California have now run their state out of money and still want all those circuses, not to mention the bread. Maybe they don't need a whole state office to say that "this product contains materials known by the State of California to be hazardous," and so on. Maybe they need "basic" services that keep people from being hungry and idle and ill and they can do without some of the more granola-oriented stuff like "special assistant to the governor for Pre-K through 6th grade student self esteem" and so on. Just my own thoughts here...and while Texas needs to ADD services, we're not anywhere near going broke. We just need to be less interested in business folks and more interested in "just folks."

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
turtle777
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Jan 24, 2009, 11:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd the residents of Granola Land still ain't getting their tax rebates.
Hey, you guys in the UK are not doing much better.

Soon the GBP will be en par with the Turkish Lira.

-t
     
shifuimam
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Jan 25, 2009, 12:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
This reveals more about your state of mind than stumblinmike's post.

shifui's posts are always filled with half-facts with no solid evidence to back it up.
Right...because this post was completely devoid of references.

Your posts tend to be emotional, reactionary, missing any citations whatsoever and, on top of all that, you're incapable of using plural nouns and verbs. Can you please learn the difference between "scientist" and "scientists", for example?

Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
It accounts for 5%.
Hi, so...if you're going to bitch about me not backing up my claims, do me a favor and provide an unbiased, reliable reference that will show me the accuracy of this claim. kthx.
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hyteckit
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Jan 25, 2009, 12:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Right...because this post was completely devoid of references.

Your posts tend to be emotional, reactionary, missing any citations whatsoever and, on top of all that, you're incapable of using plural nouns and verbs. Can you please learn the difference between "scientist" and "scientists", for example?

Wow! That's a long run-on sentence. What does a scientist or scientists have anything to do with this thread? The word scientist wasn't even used in this thread until you brought it up.


Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Hi, so...if you're going to bitch about me not backing up my claims, do me a favor and provide an unbiased, reliable reference that will show me the accuracy of this claim. kthx.
I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim that CRA passed in 1977 somehow is the cause of the housing market collapse that is happening right now.

You made the argument that CRA is largely responsible, so back it up with solid facts.
What's percentage of home mortgage loans are the result of CRA?

Why don't you just admit you have no idea how much of an effect CRA has on the housing market collapse. You are just making assumptions that CRA is largely responsible because that's what you want to believe.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Doofy  (op)
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Jan 25, 2009, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I think this should serve as an object lesson on voting for "bread and circuses."
What's the betting that this lesson won't be heeded?

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Hey, you guys in the UK are not doing much better.

Soon the GBP will be en par with the Turkish Lira.
Good job I have all my wealth stored in Zimbabwean dollars.
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That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
ghporter
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Jan 25, 2009, 07:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
What's the betting that this lesson won't be heeded?
This is the heavily favored contender. By a LONG shot.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Arty50
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Jan 26, 2009, 04:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
CRASH HARDDRIVE yet again shows his ignorance.

villalobos is right. The recall of Gov. Davis was about the energy crisis.

Gov Davis was recalled due to the energy crisis caused by Enron.

Stupid Republican Gov Pete Wilson deregulated the the electricity industry.

Deregulation lead to Enron defrauding California out of billions of dollars.
Wrong.

Davis' recall had little to do with the energy crisis. The energy crisis was just the tip of the iceberg. Davis was recalled because nothing could get done with him in office. Even the democratic leadership in the state legislature was against him. He vetoed bills on a whim, put bills on the legislature floor with a "it's my way or the highway" attitude, and spent very little effort working with the legislature. When Arnold first came in, several high ranking democrats in the legislature praised him for the fact that it was the first time in several years they'd gotten serious face time with the governor.

This was all very well publicized. Davis was a complete failure as governor. The energy crisis merely highlighted his very significant faults and served as a talking point to help facilitate his ouster.
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hyteckit
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Jan 26, 2009, 05:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Arty50 View Post
Wrong.

Davis' recall had little to do with the energy crisis. The energy crisis was just the tip of the iceberg. Davis was recalled because nothing could get done with him in office. Even the democratic leadership in the state legislature was against him. He vetoed bills on a whim, put bills on the legislature floor with a "it's my way or the highway" attitude, and spent very little effort working with the legislature. When Arnold first came in, several high ranking democrats in the legislature praised him for the fact that it was the first time in several years they'd gotten serious face time with the governor.

This was all very well publicized. Davis was a complete failure as governor. The energy crisis merely highlighted his very significant faults and served as a talking point to help facilitate his ouster.
Nothing could get done with Gray Davis in office? Really? That was the reason?

Davis spent 1,778 days as Governor, and signed 5,132 bills out of 6,244, vetoing 1,100 bills. I didn't realize the governor can put bills on the legislature floor and pass bills without working with the legislature. I thought bills must be approved by the state legislature before it goes to the governor to sign into law. How does Gov. Gray Davis sign bills into law without working with the state legislature?

He might have signed many bills that were unpopular with Californians like hiking up the car registration fees in order to balance the budget. Or signing a bill to give illegal immigrants driver license. Both lead to public outcry.

However, the energy crisis was what lead to Gov. Gray Davis's downfall. Many blame him for how he handle the energy crisis, the rolling black outs, the billions of dollars lost.


Anyway, I guess it's time to recall Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger then. Maybe Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger can learn this magic trick of passing bills without working with the state legislature. Right now, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is blaming the state legislature for not being able to get the state budget passed.


Gov. Gray Davis had a $10 billion budget deficit, after the dot-com bust.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is facing a $40 billion budget deficit, after the housing and financial market bust.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is unable to work with the legislation to pass a budget, so John Chiang, the state controller, is force to suspend payments.
( Last edited by hyteckit; Jan 26, 2009 at 05:38 AM. )
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
hyteckit
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Jan 27, 2009, 08:03 AM
 
Former Gov. Gray Davis tried to balance the budget by increasing car registration fees.

Current Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger wants to balance the budget by taxing rounds of golf, auto repairs, veterinary care, amusement park and sporting event admissions and appliance and furniture repairs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/..._service_taxes
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
SirCastor
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Jan 27, 2009, 12:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Isn't not giving you the tax back that you've overpaid theft, when all's said and done?
I'm not really following everything else going on above, but this was my first thought too.
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CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Jan 27, 2009, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
CRASH, just heard on the news today that Democrats and Republicans are close to sealing a budget deal that includes a few things we're both obviously pretty passionate about:

1. Democrats will agree to a permanent spending cap with increases only based on inflation & population (exactly what you stated would be a good idea.)
2. Republicans conceded to a few tax increases to that will help keep current social services and public works programs going.
Well, we can at least hopefully agree on the first part.

It's way subtle, but the Democrats have pulled a fast one by agreeing to cap spending NOW, after they've bloated the budget by a needless 40%, but heck, at least it's better than letting them bloat it continually forever.

It's kind of like saying:

1. Democrats will agree to fight fire by going along with that silly water, firemen, hoses and firetrucks idea put forth by Republicans.

2. Republicans, in order to get #1, will go along with the Democrats dumping a decrease in the planned increase of gasoline on the fire.

Well gee, okay. I guess you can call it a start.

More reasonable would be to cut the 40% bloat that's happened even since the population has decreased, go back to the level of spending before the increase when the population was actually greater, and cap spending THERE. Then guess what- there would be money for all the same social programs and everything else, just not at stupid inflated levels. Taxes are already the highest in the nation, so increasing them further is not needed.

But then, that would be how things would be done in common-sense land, not la la land.

So sure, it's better to fight the fire, even if on the other hand you're still fueling it, as opposed to ONLY fueling it.
     
SirCastor
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Jan 27, 2009, 03:45 PM
 
To extend the metaphor, it sometimes feels like the people who want to increase spending are saying "If we get enough gasoline, it'll smother the fire!"
Which is technically true, but highly unlikely.
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Jan 27, 2009, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Maybe they don't need a whole state office to say that "this product contains materials known by the State of California to be hazardous," and so on.
I can’t find any data on it right now, but I really doubt Prop 65 is a significant burden on taxpayers considering the fines they collect from businesses in violation.
     
ghporter
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Jan 27, 2009, 10:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by iMOTOR View Post
I can’t find any data on it right now, but I really doubt Prop 65 is a significant burden on taxpayers considering the fines they collect from businesses in violation.
Possibly not, but that's only one example of a bureaucracy built up because California didn't have enough of them. California's pollution problem, for example, comes not as much from geography (LA being situated in a spot just perfect for concentrating emissions) as from not managing roads with a thought for the future, and/or not encouraging people to drive smart. Instead of saying "we're building a state that is not walking friendly, and that's causing it to be hard for people to breathe", the state simply imposed harsh emission requirements on car makers. Why not make it illegal to run the engine on your Escalade while you're waiting at the drive through line? That would make a huge difference ANYWHERE. No, California had to build a "solution" that only altered how much each Escalade emitted instead of addressing the problem itself.

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Jan 28, 2009, 01:24 AM
 
I agree with you that California hasn’t planned well for the future in terms of roads, but I strongly disagree with your premise on emission standards. As far as I’m concerned, evaporative emissions and exhaust emissions are and have always been the problem, and traffic congestion just exacerbates the problem. Again, while I can’t find any data on the exact cost of CARB and Prop 65 to taxpayers, I’m surprised that you wouldn’t agree that any measure to reduce cancer, birth defects, developmental problems and respiratory problems is a sound investment.
     
 
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