[kenwedin]

After switching to my 9.2.1 hard disk for the first time after the latest update to 10.1.1, I am unable to get the OS X hard disk to start up. There is some moderately noisy reading for a few minutes while stuck on the gray �happy Mac� screen, and then it settles down to the usual quiet �whir� for the next few hours while I hope against all odds that it will get past that stage. I�ve tried a few times over the last couple of days and nights after intermittent forced restarts, but nothing happens during those hours of four or five �round-the-clock attempts.

I don�t want to wipe the disk clean and reinstall 10.0, and then go through the series of updates up to 10.1.1 (as I had to do a week ago). Similarly, I don�t trust the stability of a system in which I reapply the 10.1 CD �update� to my present 10.1.1 system and then update through the Software Update Panel back to 10.1.1�assuming the system would even start up at all in such a case�as Apple wisely discourages that.

I did install updates in order as they appeared, so my 10.1.1 update was not done without the prerequisite security update. I did, however, install the AirPort and 10.1.1 updates simultaneously without restarting between them, and even continued with my background downloads of third-party software for a couple more hours while working and browsing the Internet before finally restarting with my 9.2.1 hard disk. I�m not sure whether either of these is the root of my problem.

I�ve used DiskWarrior, Norton DiskDoctor, and TechTool Pro on the 10.1.1 hard disk without finding any notable errors other than recovering two insignificant (I hope) Temp files with the latter application�one of which was 0 KB. Optimizing the disk with Norton SpeedDisk hasn�t changed the situation, either.

During the first attempted restart of my 10.1.1 disk, the colored �processing� disk continued to spin in the corner of the grey �happy Mac� screen, but in successive attempts, it hasn�t even appeared.

I guess what I�m asking is whether I can manipulate some 10.1.1 files while in 9.2.1 that will enable me to get past the gray �happy Mac� screen in future startup attempts. Mail imported several MB (or even GB) of messages from my Entourage X mailbox (but only showed one of the many folders after the several hours of importing), so I�m wondering whether the system is trying to read or optimize them before actually starting up, which I really doubt. I would be happy if simply yanking out the Mail mailboxes could solve the problem�even though I can�t imagine any connection existing with an inability to start up.

Hmm, remembering that I did import all those messages into Mail, I guess I must have successfully restarted 10.1.1 fairly soon after the AirPort and 10.1.1 updaters, before later switching to my 9.2.1 disk, which subsequently made it impossible to get back to 10.1.1.

Anyway, HELP!!

Ken in Tokyo

P.S. Seeing how verbose I am here, you�d never guess I�m a copyeditor, having to make a living by making written words concise.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: kenwedin ]

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: kenwedin ]

[kenwedin]

As nothing happened when I tried to access Verbose Mode or enter Single-User Mode by the usual Command + V and Command + S key combinations before, during, and/or just after the startup gong sound, leaving me still with only a gray Happy Mac screen, I finally gave up and wiped my disk clean, installed 10.0, and worked through the updates to 10.1.1.

The end result was a clean, working system, but it was too "empty" to be of any use to me, so I hesitantly added my backup folder of Third-Party Applications to the root Applications folder, which I have always kept safely segregated to avoid problems like others have been having with the Mail update. When I was able to startup without any problem, I then added my Documents, Pictures, Movies, Music, and Sites folders from the my backup Users folder, as they were empty in the newly installed system. These two sessions of copying appeared to cause no significant problems, but then again, I didn't really test many of the applications.

Noticing that I'd have to reset all my preferences one by one for every application, and also that I couldn't access any Entourage X mailboxes, I took the final step of copying the Library folder from my backup User folder. The result was a system that could not retain or accept any Finder, Dock, or System Preference settings. Therefore, I restored the new Library folder but re-added a few elements at a time, with good results. When I finally restored the entire user Library folder, I found that I was then unable to launch or do much of anything with any applications, due to lack of authority or access permission. Finally, I weeded out everything with a .plist extension suffix, and now have access to some applications but not to others.

That is my present situation. If I delete the user Library folder again, it may be possible to open Entourage X with a new Entity, but I would not have access to any of my mailboxes. If I don't delete the Library folder, I don't even have the authority to create a new Identity for future use. Since I can't even launch Internet Explorer or a number of other applications with my present restored user Library folder, I guess I have to start from scratch and see what I can do after deleting that folder. I imagine I'll have to reinstall many of the applications and go through the process of resetting all the preferences in detail. No matter what I do, though, I can't see a way to access my former Entourage X mailboxes or my Entity/Identity at all.

This started out with inability to get past the gray startup Happy Mac screen, but I've now gone through what others seem to be experiencing in other posts in this forum. (i.e., inability to launch some applications, not being able to set preferences, having no authority or permission to access or do certain things, etc.)

[kenwedin]

[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: kenwedin ]

[darcybaston]

When you reinstalled the OS, did you create a base user account with the same login name as the former? I'm thinking the backed up files are set for a specific user name, and unless that is recreated the same, permissions would be an issue.

Instead of copying the whole backed up "Library" folder, why not create the same path (folders within folders) Entourage X was using (yourself, with New Folder actions), and then copy the individual files Entourage uses instead of the whole folder structure. That way, if permissions are an issue, you can login as Root and just change a few (permissions) files instead of having to change both files and folders.

OR

If your backed up stuff is on the 9.2.1 partition, while in 10.1.1, do a get info on the 9.2.1 hard drive partition and remove all permissions for the partition so when you're copying over...it won't set the contents being copied (Entourage stuff) different then the current administrative user account created when you installed X. I think.

Just ideas. The last time I had a grey mac face screen that wouldn't progress, I rebooted using the Install CD and used Disk Utility to fix errors and I was ok, but I won't assume that's what was wrong with yours. Refreshing a system that's used alot is never easy and I don't envy your task.

regards,
Darcy

[Rainy Day]

I had a similar problem: After the security update, it rebooted but never got past the gray smiley faced Mac; no beach ball cursor or anything. Would just sit there for as long as i'd care to wait on it. Had to boot off CD to regain control, then Ran Disk First Aid which did some repairs, and DiskWarrior which found a few things too, but still wouldn't boot afterward. So i reinstalled MacOS 10.1 (without loss of accounts, data, etc.), and the next time i installed the security update, it worked fine. Now i've just installed iTunes 2.0.2 and i'm facing the same problem all over again! I think there's a bug in Apple's installer that is corrupting a file necessary for startup. I am not looking forward to reinstalling again, but at least i'm lucky enough to have 10.1 install CD.

Btw, i have found that when you do a regular install, you don't lose any data (i.e. accounts, datafiles, passwords, installed applications, etc.)... all you loose is the time it takes to do the install. Don't select the option to erase the disk and your life will be much easier. And it seems to fix this boot problem. I'm convinced it's just one or two corrupted files to blame. Apple needs to fix this bug!

I've also noticed another bug which irritates me too: Sometimes when i tell Startup Disk to boot to a standalone 9.1 partition, it appears to start the boot process (i.e. see the correct startup screens and all), but very shortly into the process i hear the startup chimes again and then it begins to reboot into MacOS X. Only way out is to force a boot to a MacOS 9 CD and run Startup Disk from there. Then it'll boot correctly into a MacOS 9 partition. Oddly enough, though, i don't always have this problem. Haven't figured out the gremlin causing it yet.

Using a 266Mhz Wallstreet with 20 GB IBM Travelstar (8GB partition for MacOS X and 9.2.1 Classic, and other standalone 9.1 partition) and 320 MB RAM.

[Rainy Day]

Okay, i think i've got this thing figured out. I consistently ran into the grey happy Mac screen while trying to install iTunes 2.0.2. Always got stuck after installing iTunes and could go no further. Turns out the installer was deleting the file:

System/Library/Extensions.mkext

Here's a step by step work around:

1) Restore MacOS X to a bootable condition
2) Backup the file Extensions.mkext (i backed it up from MacOS 9, but you can probably do it from MacOS X)
3) Run the problematic installer (in my case, iTunes 2.0.2)
4) If you encounter the grey happy Mac screen, boot into MacOS 9 and copy the Extensions.mkext backup file to the System/Library/ folder
5) Reboot MacOS X (should boot all the way)

Hope this helps.

When the file Extensions.mkext is deleted, upon the next reboot, the extensions area re-read, and written to that file. I believe this is a bit like rebuilding the desktop, but only for extensions.. It does take awhile, and I suspect some people freak out that the startup is taking too long, and start mashing the restart button a bit hastily - possibly leaving the file Extensions.mkext half written.. I would bet that a corrupt Extensions.mkext file would probably stop the os from loading properly.. If you hold down command+v after an install/restart you will see a line that references rebuilding the file in question, and it does take awhile - so long that maybe Apple should consider adding a progress bar for this.. You can also delete this file manually, and restart, which would have the same effect..

n8

[Rainy Day]

Originally posted by <n8910>:
<STRONG>I would bet that a corrupt Extensions.mkext file would probably stop the os from loading properly.. </STRONG>

What you say sounds plausible, except that in my case, the file wasn't corrupt... it wasn't there at all. When i replaced it with a backup, MacOS X booted. Take it out, it didn't boot.

Btw, i did wait a couple minutes the first time i encountered this problem. How long does it take to build this file on your system? Some folks on MacFixIt claim to have waited hours for MacOS to boot. Clearly it can't take that long. I wouldn't be surprised if this works differently on different systems (perhaps those with New World ROM's and those without?) Just a wild guess, but i know the boot process is different for New World ROM's verses older firmware.

Maybe newer Mac's can rebuild this file, whereas older Mac's can't? If i've time to kill, i'll play with this some more to see what i can find on my machine.

[Rainy Day]

Okay, i just tried it again. Took a perfectly healthy MacOS X and caused it to stall at the grey happy Mac screen for over five minutes (according to my stop watch) by moving the Extensions.mkext file out of the System/Library/ folder. Moved the file back in, and MacOS X boots normally once again.

Now it may be that on certain Mac's this file gets recreated when missing, but on my "Old World ROM" Wallstreet PB, it doesn't. Also, there could be any number of causes for the grey happy Mac freeze. On other machines, it may be other files getting hosed causing the problem. This seems plausible as different folks are reporting slightly different symptoms (at least on MacFixIt); some are seeing the colored beach ball, others aren't (i'm not), some even get to the blue screen before they freeze up. YMMV.

<A HREF="http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/" TARGET=_blank><font color = red>Report this problem</font> to Apple</A> if you're experiencing it! Let them know it's going on. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, after all, and we certainly want this wheel greased!

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Rainy Day ]

Rainy Day :
Could you please remove the file Extensions.mkext, reboot, and hold down command+V (for verbose mode.) and note what is actually happening? I believe this logging is also written to system.log (/var/log/system.log.)

[Rainy Day]

Could you please remove the file Extensions.mkext, reboot, and hold down command+V (for verbose mode.) and note what is actually happening? I believe this logging is also written to system.log (/var/log/system.log.)

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. My Mac was in the middle of things and it wasn't convenient for me to reboot in the past couple of days.

As for your request: Sorry, no can do. Command-V or command-S in no way alter the boot experience on my Old World ROM Wallstreet PB. When i hold down any of these key combinations, nothing happens and i'm eventually taken to the log-in screen. I've tried holding the keys down with the same timing as i might to zap PRAM (i.e. just after the boot chime), and also tried holding them down starting during and even before the boot chime. I continued to hold the keys down right up to the point where i get the log-in screen. Bottom line is nothing different happens. I think you have to have a New World ROM machine (i.e. with Open Firmware) for these startup commands/features to work.

Note: I tried all of this with the Extensions.mkext file in place as i suspected command-v would not work on my machine.

[kenwedin]

If I haven't already mentioned it in this thread already, I also amy unable to access either Verbose Mode or Single-User Mode when starting up. I did succeed with Verbose Mode once when using the 10.0 installation disc for startup, but never when attempting to startup with my hard disk.

My posts are spread around the MacNN, MacFixIt, Apple, and MacCentral forums (never did bother with MacInTouch this time), so I can never remember which details I left where.

Anyway, I did reinstall from scratch and went through all the updates in order as presented by the Software Update panel, including using the 10.1 CD-ROM updater when I hit a deadend. I copied my Applications folder back to the root level (only the subfolder of third-party apps, as I keep them separate from the preinstalled Apple, Acrobat Reader, Internet Explorer, and StuffIt Expander). I then copied all the subfolders from my Users folder, other than the Library. When I did finally copy subfolders of the User's Library into my newly installed system, I started having major problems, which I have detailed elsewhere.

To solve this one or two days later, I downloaded Bare Bones Software (the BBEdit people) Super Get Info 14-day demo, and that allowed me to set the ownership and permissions for everything within my root-level Applications and my User home directory, which solved all my problems. Actually, when using Finder's Show Info, it shows that not all the third-party apps and user's home directory items were set to "kenwedin" and "admin" as I had specified, so they may be protected somehow, but since everything works now, I am happy. In fact, since not everything was changed to "root" and "admin" or "kenwedin" and "admin", respectively, as I had specified, I'm somewhat relieved to find that Super Get Info will not force changes in a way that can wreck the system. Actually, root (system) or kenwedin and admin are only the Owner and Group; I did change the Read, Write, and Execute to "world" (everyone) access, so it has that feature again. As with ownership, these permissions don't force changes that the system doesn't like, so it seems to protect itself in a way that prevents us from wrecking it, even when Super Get Info displays full access to everything as being successfully set.

I haven't had any problems in the four or days since doing this, so as long as you have Super Get Info even just for the 14-day demo period, you can safely reinstall a clean system, go through the updates, and move any third-party apps and user home directory items back safely without having to spend a week away from work and family time to reinstall every application and set the preferences one by one.

Still, I can't access Single-User Mode or Verbose Mode no matter how early and for how long I hold down the appropriate keys, in either case, so that will never be of much use to me if I have other problems in the future. I'm using a 1998 Wallstreet PowerBook G3/300, so it's probably missing whatever is needed to display the startup text or a command line cursor during startup.

Note that Super Get Info is listed on VersionTracker.com, where most of us access everyday, so it's easy to find.

[Rainy Day]

To solve this one or two days later, I downloaded Bare Bones Software (the BBEdit people) Super Get Info 14-day demo, and that allowed me to set the ownership and permissions for everything within my root-level Applications and my User home directory, which solved all my problems.

If you don't mind the CLI, you can also do this from the Terminal by:

sudo chown...

to change the owner. With a wildcard, you can recursively change the owner of all files within a folder and probably recursively to get everything within subfolders. Do a "man chown" to find the exact parameters (escapes me at the moment and i'm currently booted to MacOS 9).

Still, I can't access Single-User Mode or Verbose Mode no matter how early and for how long I hold down the appropriate keys, in either case, so that will never be of much use to me if I have other problems in the future. I'm using a 1998 Wallstreet PowerBook G3/300, so it's probably missing whatever is needed to display the startup text or a command line cursor during startup.

Glad to know i'm not alone in this! Once or twice i've seen the CLI on boot-up, when something went horribly wrong, but never from my own accord (i.e. from a keyboard command sequence); always been dropped into it magically by the system. My guess is that to invoke it from the keyboard requires an Open Firmware (NewWorld ROM) based Mac, which the Wallstreet is not. Wallstreet is the last Old World ROM PB, btw, as Lombard is a NewWorld ROM PB. Guess the dividing line, in general, might be the introduction of USB (as Lombard is the first PB with USB). Might hold true for desktop Macs too; don't know.

Perhaps support for these boot-time keyboard commands is part of what the "firmware update" many Mac's "required" before installing MacOS X was originally all about? Just a thought.

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: Rainy Day ]