[lavar78]

Originally Posted by mdc 

That was a ridiculously good episode.
In the beginning my wife said that she thought it was Jack after being rescued, but then I thought that his ex-wife would've been a little more excited to see him and thus brushed it off. Once I realized island Jack didn't have a forehead scar it dawned on me and only right at the end did I realize that it was actually a flashforward.

Great episode.

Yep!

A few things:
1. Future Jack is in the hospital and he says, "call my father down here and if I'm drunker than him you can fire me." Does that mean his father isn't dead?

I've been screaming that forever. Jack saw Christian on the island, we saw his empty casket, he's connected to almost every character, and the island appears to heal people. Christian isn't dead. Or, Jack was high and not thinking straight. No one else mentioned his father at all in those scenes.

2. With the hand grenade, is Mikhail finally dead?

By my count, he has at most 6 lives left.

3. Was that the island creating Walt (since it would be someone John would 'recognize') and if so was the island creating Walt all the other times we've seen him since him and Michael left?

Either the island or Locke's subconscious. BTW, I don't think we've seen Walt since he and Michael left until tonight. Shannon saw him a couple of times after he was taken, but I think that's it. BTW, I really appreciate Sawyer getting revenge for the S1 finale. That was awesome.

Come on February

Oh yes! It'll be a long wait, but then it'll be fast and furious again.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by greenG4 

Sorry. I totally agreed with you.

I don't understand why he closed the door myself.

I like the ending. I'm just suspicious. Are we now to believe that the island was found and no one's going to have investigated it? I can't believe we're going to go back to the island now and it's not going to be populated with more scientists. And what of Ben? And are they really going to break up the cast of characters? It's hard to believe all of them would go back.

Although if they find a way to go back and change what happened maybe it will be an undo for Charlie's death.

[Nebagakid]

Charlie closed the door on himself because he believed he had to die in order for Clarire, the woman he loves, to be saved.

[goMac]

Oh, another reason I knew early on the "flashbacks" had to be in the present/future... Jack had a KRAZR phone, which was only released after the crash.

[Demonhood]

*Spoilers below, obviously.

1) Mikhail is invincible! (said in the voice of Boris from Goldeneye)
2) perhaps it was only a possible future
3) if not, the entire cast of characters (minus the newly dead one) could be "lost" back in the real world. and they'll try to find their way back. but i'm betting on #2 for now.

[Langdon]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Although if they find a way to go back and change what happened maybe it will be an undo for Charlie's death.

 

It takes longer than what they showed for a person to drown and desmond in the other room with a wall full of scuba gear

What i am curious about is if the new 'others' are going to be on their own side as ben said and the people who have been on the island during the show now have to join together

Also the arctic station knew the general area of the explosion and they work for Penny so will she now send yet another group of people to join the story

[JoshuaZ]

Wow, this show just got interesting again. So so so many things.

[MrsLarry]

Was anyone else absolutely amazed at Sayid's ninja neck-breaking power? I went back and watched 3 times.

If there was a Chuck Norris award, Sayid should get it.

[andi*pandi]

if by amazed, you mean surprised, no. If by amazed you mean stunned by his badassery, well then yes. Sayid rocks!

excellent that walt showed up, although older walt could have emoted better. I think Jacob has the ability to appear as visions to others (jack's dad, walt, ben's mom, eko's brother etc) to get them to do what he wants. Not sure why or how though. If jacob wanted walt to have locke stop Naomi, that means he and ben are in agreement... however based on ben shooting locke in the first place, I'd say they don't always agree.

Are the true island-born others immortal? Richard (who told young Ben to wait) seems to have not aged, and they haven't shown him having a kid, and eyepatch is very hard to kill...

I really liked charlie's last message. I hope desmond gets out of there. I bet mikhail survived. If Charlie hadn't have closed the door, it would have flooded where desmond was, so charlie saved desmond. From the expression on desmond's face, I think he was hoping the flashback was wrong and that he'd saved Charlie again. They should have both got the scuba gear, or not taken their eyes off mikhail!

I can buy the "possible" future aspect of the flashforward... whose funeral was it? Anybody catch that?

I felt a little sorry for Tom. Of the others, he was the most sympathetic, but I don't blame Sawyer a bit.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

whose funeral was it? Anybody catch that?

I think they were intentionally keeping that a secret. From the fact that it was somebody whose death Jack would read about in the newspaper, it can't be anybody he was that closely attached to, but it was obviously somebody he cared enough about to go to the viewing. It's also somebody no one else cared about that much. My money is on Sawyer or Locke, who are both basically alone in the world now with no family or friends.

[andi*pandi]

yet kate said, "I've got to get back to him." which I took to mean Sawyer.

And it just occurred to me... what if jacob is also behind desmond's visions, and manipulated him into manipulating charlie? This Jacob guy has a lot to answer for. And despite the show creators saying it's not supernatural, come on, psychic ability is the only explanation?

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

if by amazed, you mean surprised, no. If by amazed you mean stunned by his badassery, well then yes. Sayid rocks!

BINGO!

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I felt a little sorry for Tom. Of the others, he was the most sympathetic, but I don't blame Sawyer a bit.

I feel the same way. Tom was like "the best of the worst" - the guy you kinda wanted to like, but he was on the other side, so you just really couldn't.

As far as the coffin... I have no idea. My first thought was Ben, but it seems a little too obvious.

RAH - February!!!

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

yet kate said, "I've got to get back to him." which I took to mean Sawyer.

That was my immediate reaction too, but I've heard rumblings on other boards that "him" could be Kate and Sawyer's love child.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

And despite the show creators saying it's not supernatural, come on, psychic ability is the only explanation?

I remember them saying the show will walk the line between science and pseudo-science.

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

if by amazed, you mean surprised, no. If by amazed you mean stunned by his badassery, well then yes. Sayid rocks!

Yeah, I liked the look on Sawyer's face, like "ah, crap. Sayid didn't even need me!" Great ep.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

yet kate said, "I've got to get back to him." which I took to mean Sawyer.

And it just occurred to me... what if jacob is also behind desmond's visions, and manipulated him into manipulating charlie? This Jacob guy has a lot to answer for. And despite the show creators saying it's not supernatural, come on, psychic ability is the only explanation?

The show's creators said an invisible man isn't supernatural?

I'm not sure I believe them.

[exca1ibur]

The coffin looked too small to be an adult. It looked like it had to be a kid.

[jonasmac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

The coffin looked too small to be an adult. It looked like it had to be a kid.

I thought it was Ben in there. That's why nobody went to his funeral. Nobody knew who he was except the Losties. Lost totally redeemed itself the 2nd half of the season. Of all the shows I watch, this was the BEST season finale.

[Chuckit]

Why would Ben have gone to LA?

[lavar78]

The coffin could've housed plenty of people, but I'd guess Locke, Ben, or Juliet based on what we know right now. Those three have been duplicitous and traitorous enough to have alienate all of the people who would potentially come to the viewing, but they've all been an important part of Jack's island life.

Yes, Sayid is a bad ass. I knew there was no way they would kill him. Well, not without incurring my wrath.

[jonasmac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Why would Ben have gone to LA?

What better "punishment" than to force him off the island? Besides, Locke seems like a lock to replace Ben as the leader of the Others.

[wallinbl]

When Kate said that about needing to get back, my first thought was that she needed to get back to Ben, not Sawyer.

[Rev-O]

My take on next season: Hanso Foundation will be the bad guys. The others killed of the Dharma initiative which was founded by Hanso, Ben didn't want the phone used and Penny didn't know about the boat. If Hanso could find the island easily they would've in the 30ish years that have gone by since Ben's betrayal and reestablished control and Penny would have known where to find the island instead of waiting for a magnetic anomoly to be detected.
So Hanso lost control of the island with Ben's killing of the Dharma Initiative, couldn't find the island again, and have been looking for it. Now with the phone signal they've found it and are going to arrive on the island in season 4 and start to reestablish control on the island and be nasty to the others and the castaways.
My big question is, what is Ben's ultimate goal in recruiting people if he is not part of the Dharma Initiative? The people brought to the island who are Others were recruited for some reason that is not part of Dharma. And if Ben can come and go from the island, why hasn't Hanso done the same? Is Ben working for Jacob, and if so, what are Jacob's goals?

All in all, I really liked this episode. Highlights: Ben getting the crap beat out of him and Tom getting shot. My vote is for Michael being the body in the casket in the flash-forward as well.

[wallinbl]

Also, I don't think that's the real future. I think that's all in Jack's head because he's doubting his move to try to make he call.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Rev-O 

Now with the phone signal they've found it and are going to arrive on the island in season 4 and start to reestablish control on the island and be nasty to the others and the castaways.

I think the castaway thing is done. I mean, they all got rescued in the final scenes of the finale. I think the end of the flash forward is where the series will leave off, with Jack trying to get back to the island. Sure, I could see Locke staying behind. But everyone else has probably left.

This gives the writers a bit more freedom. They can have people return to the island, but drop the extras who play the other generic plane crash survivors, and drop the whole survival aspect (because they'll probably bring supplies with them). But I think the series will resume from the end of Jack's flash forward.

If there was a middle part we were missing between the incident at the radio tower and the flash forwards that resolved the story, then why would Jack have regrets? It doesn't make sense.

[andi*pandi]

jack has regrets, obviously he wasn't able to rescue everyone like Ben implied. Guilt broke him down.

How it all went down... I see that being season 4.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

jack has regrets, obviously he wasn't able to rescue everyone like Ben implied. Guilt broke him down.

How it all went down... I see that being season 4.

I don't think that's it. Jack doesn't seem to be guilty about people that weren't rescued. He seems to feel bad about leaving the Island in general. He never said anything about people being left behind. He just talked about how it was a mistake to get people rescued, and that it wasn't their time to get rescued, and Kate didn't seem to feel the same way. If people were left behind, Kate would be the sort of person to at least acknowledge that.

Plus I find it hard to believe if Jack and others got off the Island, they wouldn't tell officials about people that had been left behind, and there would have been no official rescue attempt.

I think Ben was lying about the people on the boat killing everyone on the Island. It seemed like it was a last ditch effort to keep Jack from calling the outside. That said, I don't doubt that the people on the boat had sinister motivations for the Island.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Rev-O 

Is Ben working for Jacob, and if so, what are Jacob's goals?

I really think Ben is controlling Jacob somehow. The mysterious powder and the "help me" don't corroborate Ben's story IMO.

All in all, I really liked this episode. Highlights: Ben getting the crap beat out of him and Tom getting shot. My vote is for Michael being the body in the casket in the flash-forward as well.

I considered Michael, but I figured Walt would make an appearance at his old man's viewing. If he's still alive, that is...

[design219]

Tom and the new chick will be back. Torso wounds do not seem to be fatal on the island.

[Rev-O]

My thoughts:
Season 1 was the intro. Just set the stage for the series.
Season 2 was about the Survivors. Intro the tailies, but focused heavily on the plane crash survivors in their new environment and deepened the mystery of the island.
Season 3 was about the Others. Sure it was about the main charaters, but the back story of the Others seemed to be the main thread.
Season 4 will focus on the Dharma Initiative. With them coming to the Island, the nature of the Dharma initiative and the Hanso Foundation will be explored. Maybe the magnetic anomoly will be explained. Maybe some backstory on Magnus Hanso and the Black Rock used as a vehicle to explore the mystery of the Island, or this might wait til season 5. More flashbacks but expect another Flash-forward/future reveal to frame the season finale.
Season 5 will focus on the Island itself. The four toed statue, the black smoke monster, the psychic phenomena and/or spirits that seem common on the island. Once again, mostly flashbacks with a big future reveal to frame the conclusion or season opener (just to mix it up a bit)
Season 6 will tie all the elements together (kinda) and (somewhat) resolve it. All the players in place (Survivors, Others, Dharma, and the Island), with the backstory of all the main players put in place there will be no need for flashbacks. Future reveals will be used instead of flashbacks to build to the conclusion. That way a slow season long reveal can be used to intro the last episode, build tension by omitting some characters from future stuff and casually mentioning stuff like "Desmond would still be here if it wasn't for you" so that you wonder what happened to Desmond type of plot device. People won't be rescued (if they were rescued, why would it be so hard for Jack to find his way back?), they'll end up escaping the Island.

All idle speculation. All of it will be wrong, of course, but fun to guess anyways

[::maroma::]

Woo! Great ender to the season!

I'm looking at characters in different lights now. At one point I was really getting tired of Charlie and wouldn't mind seeing him go, but after seeing the way he handled his "destiny" to die, I now wish he wasn't dead (of course, he may not be). I thought Charlie was just awesome in his final scenes. The way he dealt with those two women, the way he saved Desmond and flipped the switch, and had the state of mind as he was dying to send final message to Desmond in order to help save them.

Sawyer has become pretty vindictive. When he kills someone, you see it in his eyes that he has a bit of an evil streak in him. I mean I kind of understood his rage towards Lock's father, but I really didn't understand his rage towards Tom.

Lock is becoming a frickin immortal. The dude just wont die, and every time he comes back from death he's even weirder than before.

Jack kind of redeemed himself in this finale. I thought he was turning soft, but his focus is still to get his people off of the island. When he went nuts on Ben, I felt like the old Jack was back. (but he still cries a little too often for my taste)

Overall I'm very excited for the next season. I was really worried there for a while. halfway through this last season I was worried that the show was losing its edge. But the last 5 or so episodes, along with the great finale, really put the show back on track. Bring on Season 4!!

[mdc]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I'm looking at characters in different lights now. At one point I was really getting tired of Charlie and wouldn't mind seeing him go, but after seeing the way he handled his "destiny" to die, I now wish he wasn't dead (of course, he may not be). I thought Charlie was just awesome in his final scenes. The way he dealt with those two women, the way he saved Desmond and flipped the switch, and had the state of mind as he was dying to send final message to Desmond in order to help save them.

Thats exactly how I felt about Charlie.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think the castaway thing is done.

There's too much on the island that hasn't been explained. What was that giant statue? Is that the temple that the others were going to? What was the point of all the Dharma stations? With all those stations, they were more than just some hippie free love crap. Why hasn't Dharma come to the island to find out why their people stopped communicating? Who were the natives and why were they there? Why don't the natives age and why don't some people die? What's up with the pregnant women thing? Who is Jacob? What is the black smoke? Why does everyone keep having visions of people they care about? What about the continued issues between Locke and Ben? What was that thing that swallowed Locke into the ground? What was the explosion that took out the hatch?

They need to answer all of the mysteries about the island before they just go have a bunch of people live in LA. They're going to have a hard time keeping me interested if they leave the island. The island is what's so interesting.

I don't think the flash forward was real. Why was Jack's dad (presumably) alive?

[::maroma::]

Yeah I don't think they are anywhere near being done with the island and the castaways. The island is the main character. Without the mysteries of the island, the show is flat. They'll probably spend some time off of the island as some get rescued or whatever, but I highly doubt they'd leave it for a considerable amount of time.

[lavar78]

Why is everyone so sure they're getting rescued right now? So many things could happen to botch this (alleged) rescue attempt.

[exca1ibur]

Being Locke was willing to kill for them not to go, and Ben was willing to go out alone and stop them. I'm not so sure the boat crew is as friendly as they seem either.

[Langdon]

Originally Posted by Rev-O 

My take on next season: Hanso Foundation will be the bad guys. The others killed of the Dharma initiative which was founded by Hanso, Ben didn't want the phone used and Penny didn't know about the boat. If Hanso could find the island easily they would've in the 30ish years that have gone by since Ben's betrayal and reestablished control .

The Dharma airdrop of food was done much more recently than 30 years ago. If they could manage that then they could find the island.
The pallet of food was in good condition and the beacon was still flashing so we have to assume it could have only have been sent down within a recent time period.

I want to know how ben can afford to travel and recruit the people who make up the Others. They have some resources if they can have agents in Canada and also following Juliette's sister around. Who's funding them?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

Why is everyone so sure they're getting rescued right now? So many things could happen to botch this (alleged) rescue attempt.

Because we saw they got rescued. When Jack was talking to Kate, she didn't say anything about it being a shame about what happened when they got rescued, or contacted the boat. Jack said they weren't supposed to get rescued, and Kate flat out disagreed and she told him they were supposed to get rescued. And then Jack says they are supposed to go back to the island. If the series is going to go back to before they get rescued and resolve things, why would the season finale leave us in a flash forward with Jack wanting to go back to the island?

This is also why the show isn't leaving the island. Jack, at the very least, is going back. That's already been told to us. Sure, they've been rescued, but that's not the end of the island.

Jack obviously has some reason he wants to go back, and I'm sure the other mysteries on the island are somehow related to his desire. I bet they'll pick up again on solving the mysteries of the island when they go back. Except now they'll be more experienced, resupplied, perhaps with a few new faces, and without a bunch of "civilians" holding them down.

The producers have said the entire show is changing from here forward. They said they are done with the others now too. Moving the show into the future seems to fit with those things.

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Because we saw they got rescued. When Jack was talking to Kate, she didn't say anything about it being a shame about what happened when they got rescued, or contacted the boat. Jack said they weren't supposed to get rescued, and Kate flat out disagreed and she told him they were supposed to get rescued. And then Jack says they are supposed to go back to the island. If the series is going to go back to before they get rescued and resolve things, why would the season finale leave us in a flash forward with Jack wanting to go back to the island?

This is also why the show isn't leaving the island. Jack, at the very least, is going back. That's already been told to us. Sure, they've been rescued, but that's not the end of the island.

Jack obviously has some reason he wants to go back, and I'm sure the other mysteries on the island are somehow related to his desire. I bet they'll pick up again on solving the mysteries of the island when they go back. Except now they'll be more experienced, resupplied, perhaps with a few new faces, and without a bunch of "civilians" holding them down.

The producers have said the entire show is changing from here forward. They said they are done with the others now too. Moving the show into the future seems to fit with those things.

Being rescued is different from escaping. Michael and Walt escaped. A rescue sort of indicated someone outside coming to the island and saving them, which may or may not be the case. I vote for them getting themselves off the island and then being rescued at sea. This preserves the mysterious location of the island.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Rev-O 

Being rescued is different from escaping. Michael and Walt escaped. A rescue sort of indicated someone outside coming to the island and saving them, which may or may not be the case. I vote for them getting themselves off the island and then being rescued at sea. This preserves the mysterious location of the island.

It's not believable that Jack and Kate would escape, and then there wouldn't be some sort of rescue attempt made by authorities to rescue the people left behind. We know that everyone else in the real world is aware of who Jack is and what he has been though (the chief of surgery hinted, and oceanic gave them the golden pass).

Everyone could have possibly escaped, but that still doesn't resolve why Jack would want to go back, not unless he had unfinished business on the island (and the show would certainly have unfinished business if they left the Island suddenly).

And we now know that things with Walt are not all they seem. We never saw him get rescued, and somehow he is still on the island.

Edit: Not to mention the castaways made contact with Penny also, so they have a second person they are in contact in. And if Penny has an uplink to the island, she probably knows where it is or could find it. And there isn't much left for the castaways on the island. They destroyed their homes in the finale.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by goMac 

It's not believable that Jack and Kate would escape, and then there wouldn't be some sort of rescue attempt made by authorities to rescue the people left behind. We know that everyone else in the real world is aware of who Jack is and what he has been though (the chief of surgery hinted, and oceanic gave them the golden pass).

Everyone could have possibly escaped, but that still doesn't resolve why Jack would want to go back, not unless he had unfinished business on the island (and the show would certainly have unfinished business if they left the Island suddenly).

And we now know that things with Walt are not all they seem. We never saw him get rescued, and somehow he is still on the island.

I think you're taking things a little too literally and/or assuming too much. You can honestly be 100% sure that is Walt, can you? It could've been Locke's subconscious (like when he saw dead Boone), the island talking to him, Walt projecting himself (like he appeared to do with Shannon), or a number of other things. I personally think that actually being Walt on the island is highly unlikely.

Also, to borrow a phrase from another finale this week, "the future isn't set in stone." So what if we saw Jack and Kate after being rescued? Desmond has spent the last 15 or so episodes changing the future. Furthermore, maybe they're not even going to address that future storyline again until the end of next season (or later). Penny's crew hasn't been seen since last year's finale... not to mention the three-toed statue. I don't think things are quite as cut and dried as you think.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

I think you're taking things a little too literally and/or assuming too much. You can honestly be 100% sure that is Walt, can you? It could've been Locke's subconscious (like when he saw dead Boone), the island talking to him, Walt projecting himself (like he appeared to do with Shannon), or a number of other things. I personally think that actually being Walt on the island is highly unlikely.

I think Walt being on the Island physically is unlikely too. But I don't think Walt got rescued either.

Originally Posted by lavar78 

Also, to borrow a phrase from another finale this week, "the future isn't set in stone." So what if we saw Jack and Kate after being rescued? Desmond has spent the last 15 or so episodes changing the future.

But he didn't really change the future. Charlie still died. If anything, the losties haven't been able to escape the future.

Originally Posted by lavar78 

Furthermore, maybe they're not even going to address that future storyline again until the end of next season (or later). Penny's crew hasn't been seen since last year's finale... not to mention the three-toed statue. I don't think things are quite as cut and dried as you think.

If you were large-evil-shadow-organization with plans for the Island, you'd probably want to move as many people as you could off. My guess is this is exactly what happened. Naomi's group probably quietly "rescued" everyone off the island (with a few people like Locke "evading" rescue and becoming new others), and then set their evil scheme in motion with the losties out of the way. Most the losties, like Kate, don't really care what Naomi's group does with the island and are just happy to be rescued. Others, like Jack, feel guilty that they put their rescue over keeping the island safe, which is why Jack wants to go back and set things right.

This completely reminds me of the Season 2 finale in Battlestar Galactica.