[zerologic]

you all knew it... then why in the fsck are you all complaining? No one forced you to buy the OS. You wanted to buy it, and did. It didn't meet your expectations even though you knew that there was no CD burning/DVD, just like the rest of us.

I personally will pay the $20 for 10.1 because I like the direction this OS is going. I want DVD, though I get CD burning with Toast today.

If you don't like 10.0.x, simply go back to 9.x until 10.5 ships then give it another try. But like I told Cipher13 (peace), you might consider buying a new G4 today since it'll likely be the last one to support booting OS 9 directly.

This isn't a flame, just a question.

Michael.

[Scott_H]

10.0 is not beta but it is beta quality. Get it? You see Apple came out after many of us pre-ordered and dropped the bomb that OS X was shipping with less than it should. But told us that updates were coming. We're at 10.0.4 now and many bugs are still there and system performance hasn't improved since the update prebinding deal. Which really had nothing to do with the OS.

So you see many of us are willing to hang on until the update. We hope 10.1 will be usable but I'm guessing it wont be. I'm sure everyone expected the update to be a Software Update CP away. Well now it's $20 away.

[zerologic]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>So you see many of us are willing to hang on until the update. We hope 10.1 will be usable but I'm guessing it wont be. I'm sure everyone expected the update to be a Software Update CP away. Well now it's $20 away.</STRONG>

Are you sure about this Scott? I'm glad you feel that way, but from reading these boards you'd think the world was falling apart because Apple is making so many changes to the beta quality OS that they have to ship it on a CD! I personally wouldn't want to download 200MB through the control panel

Honestly though, I'd like to see Apple charge a real shipping amount, like $2.99

Zerologic,

I noticed that you are from Plano, TX. Do you have any word on when the Apple store will be opening over there in Willow Bend? I'd really like to be there opening day, but there is no info on the Apple website announcing when they're opening. If you have any info please post...

Thanks.

[zerologic]

Not exactly, but MacNN had a story on it the other day... check the archives It was soon IIRC.

[moyashi]

This is really getting tedious. OS X is an unfinished product plain and simple. Yes, Apple needs to recoop their expenses but I wonder if loosing good-will is worth $20 per update CD.

I really believe that apple owes it's users on this one. OS 2-9 is a deifferent story than OS X or OS 1. Orginal software belongs to it's own category and should not be compared to Established systems.

If "WE" knew that apple was shipping an unfinished version would so many people have bought it? I really don't think so. Apple should have written on it's box then that such and such is missing or will most likely not run until further updates. If you smoke it plainly states smoking is dangerous to your health. A disclaimer should have been printed clearly and visable.

NO $20 is nothing really -- it's the point of this whole issue that is important. And sorry a download is also not really the solution. I don't want to download something and then spend money anyways on a plain cd burn.

I registered. What does this entitle me to? I'm in the Apple database because of this and I see no benefit to registering at all. I call support and can give a fake name what do I or do they care. I am a statistic now with no returns.

I seriously would like to see Apple to do good and be different by offering all of it's registered users a chance to order a completely free update no strings attached.

If you think that I'm wrong and side with apple then I'm sure you must think that M$ and Adobe are cool for doing the same thing to it's users.

Sorry, I really don't think charging customers even a reasonable fee to fix something is good business. Just M$ smart business. Make your customer's pay through the nose since they won't get offended.

I am offended -- why should I smile and say I'll pay without offering my share of complaints?

[KidRed]

Well I disagree. First off, you have the price of the cd, then you have the printed graphics on the cd, then you have the box and the printed graphics on the box, then you have the booklets and phamlets inside the box, instuctions manuals and stuff, then you have someone that has to put the cd in the box. So, yea, I can see why they should give it away with no shipping and handling. &lt;insert sarcasim&gt;

Come on people, let us not forget APPLE SHIPPED OS X OVER NIGHT AND ON A F-CKING SATURDAY FOR FREEEEEE!!!!!!! THAT'S EASILY $40 EACH CD!!!!!!

Fricking cry baby whiners, damn, add up the 300,000 give or take cdspackaging and man hours to package everything up then ask yourself why they need to charge a measly $20!?!?

Sorry for the rant but the $20 S&H issue is getting out of hand. I don't remember people bitching about paying that for 8.1.

[Spirit_VW]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>

We hope 10.1 will be usable but I'm guessing it wont be. </STRONG>

Umm.....ooo-kaaaay, Captain Negative-In-The-Face-Of-Other-Evidence.....

[KidRed]

HAHA, I second that opinion Spirit_VW

[moyashi]

Free overnight shipping wow! That's great if you live in the States. haha, I don't. So not everybody get's that service. Also, I'm sure Apple didn't pay full price for shipping but I could be wrong. If they didn't -- haha what were they thinking. OOPs, somebody wrote $40 bucks spent just to ship OS X -- umm guy/girl then why is it $20 this time???


Once again I state. Paying for an update to any system between OS 2-9 is understandable -- these systems were mature and basically at their respective times finished systems.

OS X is no were near finished or should be even considered as such -- this is the point of the issue. Why pay more money to get basic functionality like printing, GCC, DVD ??? Would you pay extra just to have your back seats installed in your sedan? NOT

Why do folks think it's great to pay for something again when it should have been there in the first place?

Sure apple needs to recover the cost of materials and labor but they sold OS X as a sellable product (note I didn't say finished). Why should I pay for their mistake?

Technically buying OS X early was a mistake. So that means supporting a company I like is now a mistake. Making mistakes needs to stop. Paying for apple's mistake would be a mistake. This mistake needs to be solved by an industry leading and confidence building solution.

Look at Saturn -- the car maker. They sold cars that had bad anti-freeze. The anti-freeze ruined certain parts of the engine. Saturn recalled not just the engine and radiator but the whole car. It was a simple mistake. It cost the manufacture money. Saturn made a name for itself for being a dependable and tustworthy company.

If Apple doesn't need any good advertisement. If apple doesn't wish to gain more customers. If apple likes it's postion in the industry then I say that we all should bow down to apple and pay the minor fee of $20.

You know, I wonder how much it would cost apple to ship updates to all of it's registered users? Also I wonder how much apple spends in a month, a year on advertisement. Or how about just 1 convention? I wonder which is cheaper industry wide reputation building news that would obviously be written about on almost all of the mac fanatic websites and other news sites or plain regular media advertisements?

so ..... which is more helpful ????

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by Spirit_VW:
<STRONG>

Umm.....ooo-kaaaay, Captain Negative-In-The-Face-Of-Other-Evidence.....</STRONG>

Please. OS X has improved zero since it shipped. Minor bug fixes at best. I'm sure Jobs sold you some good snake oil at MWNY. Every time Jobs demos OS X (beta or 10.0) it looks fast but the shipping version isn't. 10.1 looks fast but I have no reason to think the shipping version will be. Apple's given me zero reasons to think OS X will get faster.


You may call me negative but I prefer realistic.

[theoden]

Bah.
*sighs*.
Now I remember why I don't read these boards half as much, or even 1/4th as much as I used to. All anyone does is complain.
I mean, sure. I've had my complaints about Mac OS X. I'm stuck out in the cold without rage pro drivers, either.

I don't remember anyone complaining about bugs in 7.5, or 7.6, or 8.5... etc. I ran 8.0 right when it was released on an old Performa 6116 with 16 megs of ram. It ran godly damned slow, but I was happy with it.
OS X runs godly damned slow on my g3. Sure, it's not refined yet, but I'm still happy with it.

I guess an article in an old MacWorld a few issues back was right. It's not Mac vs Windows anymore. It's Classic vs X.

So quit yer whining and be happy for what apple has given us. A hungry man doesn't cry when his bread's stale.
&lt;/lecture&gt;

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>

Please. OS X has improved zero since it shipped.

</STRONG>

Yeah, pretty much true there.

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>

10.1 looks fast but I have no reason to think the shipping version will be.

</STRONG>

I do, and it is. You will like it a lot.