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Shapeshifter 2.5
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Randman
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Sep 12, 2007, 08:22 PM
 
Just downloaded and installed the latest version of shapeshifter and it is so nice to have Safari matching my theme once again.

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cgc
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Sep 12, 2007, 08:32 PM
 
ShapeShifter 2.5 totally screwed up my system to the point where no program could be opened at all. I had to toss SS 2.5 from the APE enabled to the APE disabled folder and restarting. Wonderful quality control...
( Last edited by cgc; Sep 12, 2007 at 08:43 PM. )
     
Randman  (op)
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Sep 12, 2007, 10:21 PM
 
Might just be your system as had zero problems with it.

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JellyBeen
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Sep 13, 2007, 12:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Randman View Post
Might just be your system as had zero problems with it.
Same here, no problemo.
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Curiosity
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Sep 13, 2007, 02:24 AM
 
I can finally stop excluding iTunes from Shapeshifter!!
     
Kevin
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Sep 13, 2007, 06:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Randman View Post
Might just be your system as had zero problems with it.
Or it could be that SS is just really really picky.
     
Randman  (op)
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Sep 13, 2007, 06:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Or it could be that SS is just really really picky.
Yes, it could be, but who's to say. But for the second poster's vague but negative comment, my initial impression is that it may be something on his computer.

And you could also say some people may have some troubles but the majority are probably not.

Besides, you've always been a SS hata.

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Kate
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Sep 13, 2007, 11:45 AM
 
...runs like a charm on all 24 Macs here....
     
cgc
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Sep 13, 2007, 07:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman View Post
Yes, it could be, but who's to say. But for the second poster's vague but negative comment, my initial impression is that it may be something on his computer.

And you could also say some people may have some troubles but the majority are probably not.

Besides, you've always been a SS hata.
I'm not sure how my initial statement was vague. I was simply saying that I was having problems and had to trash SS in order to get it to work. I've never been an "SS hata" as you put it.

In any case, it seems LaunchBar was the culprit. Quit LaunchBar and SS worked fine, though I think LaunchBar is much more important to my workflow than SS it...
     
Randman  (op)
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Sep 13, 2007, 08:15 PM
 
Kevin is the SS hata.

Sorry to hear that you have problems but not sure how that relates to quality control. I mean friggin' Apple messes up on stuff all the time.

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Kevin
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Sep 14, 2007, 08:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Randman View Post
Besides, you've always been a SS hata.
Not always. It wasn't until I started getting system issues and incompatibilities did I become a disliker. (I don't hate SS)

But then again I was around before SS, and probably a bit pickier than most.

I like having a customized OS, WITHOUT any slow-down or glitches.

I feel SS has done more harm to themes than good IMHO.

Esp when it was more of a community and a "open source" sort of thing. And not a theme monopoly sort of thing.
Originally Posted by cgc View Post
I
In any case, it seems LaunchBar was the culprit. Quit LaunchBar and SS worked fine, though I think LaunchBar is much more important to my workflow than SS it...
Launchbar isn't the culprit. SS is. If Launchbar works fine on OS X without SS then it does what it's supposed to.

And you are right, workability and usage is better than themeing on the fly any day.

But I've heard some things about 10.5..
Originally Posted by Randman View Post
Sorry to hear that you have problems but not sure how that relates to quality control. I mean friggin' Apple messes up on stuff all the time.
This has really nothing to do with quality control as it has to do with how it patches the system. It does it in the same way Kaleidoscope did sorta. With the same side effects.

You'll have this with any of this type of thing. Esp with the APE stuff.

I choose system stability over "look"

I HATE Aqua. But I can deal with a stripe-less darker version. Something I've been doing to the extras.rsrc since before the public beta days.

I doubt I'll have to modify 10.5's GUI at all.

Just like to me Platinum was the ultimate look and usage of a GUI idea. I am sure the final mostly aqua-less 10.5 is gonna rock.

Now if Apple starts SUPPORTING themes.. and making theme EASIER to make and make it so no PATCHING is needed, I might get back into the scene. But until then....
( Last edited by Kevin; Sep 14, 2007 at 09:06 AM. )
     
fisherKing
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Sep 14, 2007, 12:09 PM
 
i've used shapeshifter for years without problems (altho i DID have to disable itunes from it with recent updates, open itunes, then RE-ENABLE ss for it).

2.5 is fine here; would not want to work without a custom look on my macs...essential!
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Kevin
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Sep 16, 2007, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
i've used shapeshifter for years without problems (altho i DID have to disable itunes from it with recent updates, open itunes, then RE-ENABLE ss for it).
So you have used SS without any problems, but the one you just stated.
2.5 is fine here; would not want to work without a custom look on my macs...essential!
So to you, look matters over stability. SS is for you. I have no problems with people that don't mind the instability issues that SS brings in order to give them a "look" they want.
     
Randman  (op)
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Sep 16, 2007, 05:14 PM
 
Some people like looks and stability. And have it.

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Kevin
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Sep 17, 2007, 06:26 AM
 
I thought I did too with Kaleidoscope.

I should have added consistency in that mix as well.
     
M$2MBP
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Oct 9, 2007, 05:01 AM
 
What does this program do to the performance of your machines? Windows Blinds used to cripple machines, and not until the most recent updates did it statr to see less bloat. It is still bloated, but by staying away from clear themes and fancy things like widgets it seems to be pretty fast. I am curious about this program, but I most certainly don't want to slow my machine down for window dressing, if you know what I mean.
     
Kevin
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Oct 9, 2007, 05:31 AM
 
If you don't want to slow down your machine, and make it over all less stable. Stay away from SS.

IMHO.
     
newsushi
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Oct 9, 2007, 11:07 AM
 
FWIW I used SS for a couple of years and never had any problems with it. As my machine aged, the HD got to the point of being fuller than optimum, and new apps were installed that required more and more resources, I ditched it in the pursuit of speeding up my machine ... removing it made zero perceptible performance/stability difference. I've had 4 crashes in 4 years and every single one of those was triggered by Microsoft Office ... go figure.

I don't doubt that SS patches and uses some system resources ... but it's not nearly as bad as many folks scream about.
     
Kate
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Oct 9, 2007, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
If you don't want to slow down your machine, and make it over all less stable. Stay away from SS.

IMHO.
According to my own experience this is a myth.

As you could easily verify, there is no noticable performance hit.
As far as stability is in question, I had zero issues with that and SS.
Looking back at using this with all my Macs and some of the department, that's 8 in total, I can happily assure you that SS is doing a good job since years around here.

Could you backup your claim somehow more specific? Have you been running a combination of more exotic hardware/software setups that caused your own experience to be so heavily different from others?
     
Kevin
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Oct 10, 2007, 05:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kate View Post
According to my own experience this is a myth.
It's simply not a myth. Look at this forum and how many issues people have had with SS and other apps clashing. Their answer to the problem? "Turn it off" meaning make it so SS doesn't theme that app. Then you get a inconsistent GUI.

And yes, it DOES slow down processes. You don't notice it as much now because you've been using SS for so long.

Remove it completely, then come back to me in a week. It makes you feel like you've gained about 100mhz.



Themes that just replace the extras.rsrc and don't use a APE PATCHER wont do this.

Having said that, some will take a small performance hit for being able to theme their OS the way they want.

It just wont ever be consistent unless you are running a variant of the original GUI.

I've been themeing since before SS or most theme making applications that are made right now where out. Back when Sprocket was the only theme application you could really use.

I know a tad bit about what I am talking about.
     
Kate
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Oct 10, 2007, 06:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
It's simply not a myth. Look at this forum and how many issues people have had with SS and other apps clashing. Their answer to the problem? "Turn it off" meaning make it so SS doesn't theme that app. Then you get a inconsistent GUI.
There have been issues, as with most other software as well, right, and usually those can be avoided by deinstalling or turning them off. But not those issues you've been claiming, at least not with non-beta SS versions as far as I recall.

Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
And yes, it DOES slow down processes. You don't notice it as much now because you've been using SS for so long.

Remove it completely, then come back to me in a week. It makes you feel like you've gained about 100mhz.

I do not recognize those 100 Mhz on my old PowerBook with 1,5 Ghz. Let alone on more modern Macs. Your claim is, that you will lose somehow some percent of CPU power? And you claim, that you'll recognize that? If the number holds true at all? You won't, even if this would be true, and it's not.

Look, SS does work based on RAM, all it does is patching resources in RAM, after been loaded initially at startup that is, this leads to a few extra cycles and some cache and load overhead, true, but a performance hit in the range of 10% would be seen in your Activity Monitor and it is not to be seen nowhere, not even something in the range of 1%. There is no responsiveness drop either.

In contrast to your guess I had my long pauses using SS and am very well aquainted with the difference between having it on and off.
Did you operate a recent SS version at all then? I guess no, since you like to swap your "extras" manually, isn't it? ;-)

Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Themes that just replace the extras.rsrc and don't use a APE PATCHER wont do this.

Having said that, some will take a small performance hit for being able to theme their OS the way they want.

It just wont ever be consistent unless you are running a variant of the original GUI.
Now your claim is a bit different, you are talking GUI inconsistency, where you have been talking performance hit und instability.

Well, something even less consistent than Apples original GUI could be made, but who would want that ? I go for the better.

Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I've been themeing since before SS or most theme making applications that are made right now where out. Back when Sprocket was the only theme application you could really use.

I know a tad bit about what I am talking about.
I know. Me too. I've been there as well.
     
Altair
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Oct 11, 2007, 05:54 PM
 
I've been using ShapeShifter for around 2 years. The only problem I have had during this time was with iTunes so I excluded that program and that's it. I just looked at the activity monitor and aped is using 1 mb of ram and 0% processor and ShapeShifterCacheManager is using under 7 MBs (103 in virtual) of memory and again 0% processor. I seriously doubt this claim of a 100 Mhz equivalence speed increase by removing it.

Yeah if you feel that you need the 8MBs of memory then yes SS will be a "performance hit." (Note, I'm not an expert in how SS was written so I could be missing some process that SS is using)

Anyways, M$2MBP, I find that being able to change the theme to be a great thing to personalize my computer. I don't notice any performance hit from it and it certainly doesn't make my computer unstable. I'd say give it a shot.

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Kevin
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Oct 12, 2007, 05:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kate View Post
There have been issues, as with most other software as well, right, and usually those can be avoided by deinstalling or turning them off. But not those issues you've been claiming, at least not with non-beta SS versions as far as I recall.
The only thing I have claimed.
1. SS slows down the system a tad. It does.
2. SS causes bugs with other software sometimes. It does.
3. APE and other hacks live patch the system. Meaning they patch on the fly. This can also cause stability issues.

This is just not issues with themeing. As I have been theming since before the public beta and have never ran into the problems people have had with ShapeShifter. Then again, I don't use it.
I do not recognize those 100 Mhz on my old PowerBook with 1,5 Ghz. Let alone on more modern Macs.
Then Shapeshifter is definitely for you.
Your claim is, that you will lose somehow some percent of CPU power? And you claim, that you'll recognize that? If the number holds true at all? You won't, even if this would be true, and it's not.
It is true, and you do notice it. Well SOME of us notice it. I remember back in the Kaliedoscope days there were people ranting up and down that the small hit it takes on the system didn't matter, blah blah blah. But today, Kaliedoscope is KNOWN to have done such a thing. Now that no one uses it, no one feels the "need" to take up for it. The same thing will happen once SS is outdated and is no longer in use.
Look, SS does work based on RAM, all it does is patching resources in RAM, after been loaded initially at startup that is,
I know how it works Kate. I used to beta test the original version. I've probably been into OS X themeing for longer than you think I have. What you are trying to say is, SS patches it's resources on the fly. Something I do not like.
this leads to a few extra cycles and some cache and load overhead, true, but a performance hit in the range of 10% would be seen in your Activity Monitor and it is not to be seen nowhere, not even something in the range of 1%. There is no responsiveness drop either.
I get different results than you.
In contrast to your guess I had my long pauses using SS and am very well aquainted with the difference between having it on and off.
Did you operate a recent SS version at all then? I guess no, since you like to swap your "extras" manually, isn't it? ;-)
I've used EVERY version of SS that has came out. I have tried and tried. So your assumption is wrong. And I've been swapping out extras.rsrcs before you probably knew what a Mac theme was.
Now your claim is a bit different, you are talking GUI inconsistency, where you have been talking performance hit und instability.
Huh? Claim a bit different? I have more than one legitimate gripe about SS. Just because I give more than one complaint, doesn't mean I am changing another.
Well, something even less consistent than Apples original GUI could be made, but who would want that ? I go for the better.
A good bit less consistent than Apple's original GUI. I can make my GUI consistent, not have ANY slow-downs, AND theme it the way I want without having to use SS.
I know. Me too. I've been there as well.
Funny, what name did you go by then? Cause I knew all the first theme developers for OS X. And I don't remember your name coming up at all.

There will always be people that has emotional attachments to software, or like it enough that the shortcomings don't bother them. And that is fine. Let them eat cake.

SS was a good idea. Just horribly implemented.
     
Randman  (op)
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Oct 13, 2007, 02:11 AM
 
Too many replies to wade through.

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MindFad
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Oct 19, 2007, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kate View Post
According to my own experience this is a myth.

As you could easily verify, there is no noticable performance hit.
I'm not an SS user, but I have installed it four or five times over the past few years, and I absolutely noticed a performance hit with GUI responsiveness every time. I just like OS X just fine and don't really want custom themes very badly, but the performance hit was definitely noticeable when I tried it out those times.
     
Randman  (op)
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Oct 20, 2007, 02:46 PM
 
How much ram do you have and what system? I've never noticed a performance hit from any GUI mod.

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Kevin
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Oct 20, 2007, 02:50 PM
 
When was the last time you tried a clean install OS without SS installed?

I could tell a noticeable difference. It's definitely not noticeable like Kaleidoscope was back in the day. But it's enough to annoy me.
     
swiz
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Oct 20, 2007, 06:48 PM
 
I can honestly say that I don't experience any noticeable performance hit with SS, nor have I ever run into app problems(due to SS or anything else in OSX).

I had been running OSX plain jane since I got my new Mac(2.1ghz G5 iMac 1.5gb Ram) for about a year and then one day decided to check out themes again. I installed SS and haven't deactivated it since (about 1 month now) and have not noticed any sluggishness in any form nor had any problems (at all- SS related or otherwise) during this time.

I too have been messing with Extras.rsrc since the Public Beta and I am so glad to see SS ultimately achieve the same result as what I did manually before with minimal leg work on my part. Granted, if I did notice a performance hit or had conflicts due to it I would feel differently.

Guess randman and I are a couple of the lucky users.

Now when Leopard comes out, I'll be learning a whole new bag of hackery tricks Im sure because that hodgepodge of GUI funkdom isn't gracing my screen for more than a few hours of exploring. Widgets, scrollbars and menubar are OUT. But thats another topic.
( Last edited by swiz; Oct 20, 2007 at 06:50 PM. Reason: adding another thought...)

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Kevin
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Oct 21, 2007, 06:44 AM
 
I guess. I am using a 1.25 GHZ G4 too. I would guess it depends on how FAST your machine is. If you are on a fast Intel box, I am sure the hit you take is minimal.

I fly though the GUI and windows differently than I have seen others navigate through OS X too, so that may be the difference too. For example when hitting option button when opening a window to close the one behind it, it's simply slower with SS on. One of the major annoyances I had with it. Cause I do this a lot.

That and the themes I use don't require SS's hackery. So if I don't have to use it, I certainly wont. I'd rather have it running like it was intended. Instead of having it make calls constantly.
Now when Leopard comes out, I'll be learning a whole new bag of hackery tricks Im sure because that hodgepodge of GUI funkdom isn't gracing my screen for more than a few hours of exploring. Widgets, scrollbars and menubar are OUT. But thats another topic.
Same here. I hear most of the widgets and other GUI goodies are in vector format. Those that want to theme, better learn Illustrator
     
swiz
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Oct 21, 2007, 09:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I hear most of the widgets and other GUI goodies are in vector format. Those that want to theme, better learn Illustrator
What the? I know Illustrator but I think Photoshop is far easier to create realistic shiny stuff

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Kevin
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Oct 21, 2007, 10:31 AM
 
Well the graphics elements I am told are in vector format. I know Photoshop does vector somewhat.... but not as well as Illustrator.

Looks like they did the shiny stuff just fine in vector.



The aqua widgets were NEVER that clear using raster widgets. IMHO.

Too bad they clash with everything else.
     
swiz
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Oct 21, 2007, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
The aqua widgets were NEVER that clear using raster widgets. IMHO.
Very true.

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swiz
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Oct 23, 2007, 11:34 PM
 
Funny, just now I wanted to try out an installer only theme and I just had to run the iTunes installer because it wouldn't launch after installing the theme. Thats why I like SS, if something does happen to not work out, I can just disable it, or more than likely SS will know its not gonna jive and let me know. Smegs is da man.

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Kevin
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Oct 24, 2007, 05:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by swiz View Post
Funny, just now I wanted to try out an installer only theme and I just had to run the iTunes installer because it wouldn't launch after installing the theme. Thats why I like SS, if something does happen to not work out, I can just disable it, or more than likely SS will know its not gonna jive and let me know. Smegs is da man.
That just means the installer theme you just tried to install has a themer that has been slacking on updates. That is more of a themer problem than an installer one. iTunes resource has been updated since he put out his last theme. He should pull the file, or fix it.

So yes SS makes it so themers that don't update their theme from messing up, it's not worth the extra hassle it does bring on to me.

Not that this forum isn't full of "I've installed SS and now this program wont work!111" threads. It is.

So the problem exists in both ways.
     
   
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