[turtle777]

So, some restaurants think they need to name their food "creations" with French verbs and nouns.

Ok, fine.

But: once I order them, I pronounce them the correct way, as you would in France.
Shit, no dice. No server ever gets it. They just look at you like you spoke Greek or something.

No, you need to pronounce it how an uneducated American would pronounce it.

F$&@ it, what's the point then.

-t

[subego]

Like what?

[el chupacabra]

Your missing the point turtle. It's about inner city folk feeling classy & culturally sofiscated without having to go to France.

[starman]

Just call everything "Freedom Fries"

[Cap'n Tightpants]

pommes frites

[mindwaves]

Hmm. I'm on the fence with this one. I do substitute teaching in a Mexican American area. I don't speak Spanish whatsoever. A student comes up to me to ask to for a pass to use the restroom. I ask the name of the student to write on the pass. The student tells me his/her last name and/or first name with a Spanish accent (or pronunciation). Most times, I have no idea what he/she said. I often ask to repeat and/or have the student spell out his/her name for me to look at the attendance chart.

I wish for the student to dumb down the pronunciation of the name so an average American can understand it. BTW, I do not look like I speak Spanish.

[starman]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

I don't speak Spanish whatsoever.

Not even a poco?

¿Donde esta el cuarto del baño?

[subego]

So, who here consistently uses the proper French pronunciation for the word "Paris"?

I assume no one here is that big of a le sac de douche.

[mindwaves]

Reminds me of Giada on the Food Network. People complain how she doesn't pronounce Italian words in English (and also how she over enunciates many of them and her big smile doing so).

[starman]

Not to derail, but have you noticed that every time Giada does a show, she takes a handful, then another handful, and then puts the whole thing in *anyway*?

[subego]

Wouldn't having a bunch of students with Spanish names be a perfect environment to learn the basics of pronunciation?

Isn't it bad form for teachers to desire having things dumbed down for them?

[Spheric Harlot]

It would seem prerequisite for a teacher to be prepared to edumacate hisself.

[andi*pandi]

Most restaurants I've been to that put french things on the menu seem to have staff that know the right way to say things. I can't even think of another way to say crème brûlée. (I did struggle with the accent marks there though). Cream Brooley? Cram Brooleee? brrr.

Escargot? I can see someone messing up, even if they silly enough to order it.

Also, please do use Parisian pronunciation in Quebec.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by subego 

Like what?

Potatoes "au gratin" is a classic.

Slightly different but related:
Yesterday, I ordered a Belgium beer called "Petrus".

Needless to say, the French pronounciation didn't get me far.

-t

[subego]

I'm not in any way doubting you, but "oh grotten" and "ow grattahn" are so similar, I wonder what else on the menu they think it could be. I also note one sounds much tastier.

My French is weak enough I'm not sure how to pronounce "Petrus". Is it "peh-true"?


I realize now my unconscious desire to point at what I'm ordering on the menu may have successfully navigated these waters throughout my life.

[subego]

Une petit histoire...

What an animal is called tends towards Germanic roots, while what an animal as food is called, tends towards French.

Fowl is Germanic, poultry is French.


Almost positive there's a class angle here.

[mindwaves]

Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly. I want the students to say their name slower. They say their name so fast and mumble that I often miss their name the first time and sometimes the second time.

[Spheric Harlot]

Oh. That, on the other hand, makes sense. I believe it's "more slowly", though.

[mindwaves]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Oh. That, on the other hand, makes sense. I believe it's "more slowly", though.

Correct!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly. I want the students to say their name slower. They say their name so fast and mumble that I often miss their name the first time and sometimes the second time.

One approach is to mispronounce what you hear (or maybe just pronounce what you hear) and see what happens. That's probably not a good approach for students you want to be cooperative.

The bit about saying one's name quickly has two roots. The first is that, if you're "attuned" to a particular dialect, you can pick up what's being said much more easily than if you aren't. By "attuned," I mean (generally) that you're able to speak that dialect, at least to some extent.

The second root is that Spanish is almost always pronounced very quickly. To say something in Spanish takes many more syllables than to say the same thing in English, but that's not the issue. To express anything in Spanish takes a lot of syllables, so Spanish is often spoken very quickly - at the cost of enunciation. Picture Ricardo Montalban speaking...now invert that and you have typical Spanish enunciation. If you add in the patois that is "Tex Mex" Spanish, you wind up with "garble slur schwa rolled 'r'" instead of anything recognizable to someone who isn't fluent in the local dialect.

When stationed in Panama, one of our acquaintances was a substitute teacher in the DoD schools, which were pretty thoroughly bilingual. The problem was that the kids would toss both languages together so freely that neither language was actually spoken - just a mish-mash of the two. Our friend told one class: "I can teach in English, or I can teach in Spanish - PICK ONE." The kids were pretty cool with that.

[Spheric Harlot]

One of the joys of meeting for school reunions is the wonderful mid-sentence mashing of languages we grew up with, and that you just don't get with other people.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by subego 

So, who here consistently uses the proper French pronunciation for the word "Paris"?

I assume no one here is that big of a le sac de douche.

When in Rome ....

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

pommes frites

Fried apples?

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Slightly different but related:
Yesterday, I ordered a Belgium beer called "Petrus".

I read that quickly and thought that you'd ordered Château Pétrus wine. Not quite in the same price range I'd imagine. For the wine you pronounce the 's' at the end. I imagine its the same for the beer.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I read that quickly and thought that you'd ordered Château Pétrus wine. Not quite in the same price range I'd imagine. For the wine you pronounce the 's' at the end. I imagine its the same for the beer.

That's an interesting exception, I have no idea if it applies to the beer.

-t

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's an interesting exception, I have no idea if it applies to the beer.

A town near Biarritz spelt Anglet, you pronounce the 't' at the end. I had a colleague called Prost (like the F1 driver) but he insisted it was pronounced Pro.

They do it just to fcuk with you.

[el chupacabra]

One time I ordered Singha beer (pronounced Sing*ga ). They acted confused so I pointed on the menu and they chuckled at me saying "he's pronouncing it wrong, he wants SingHAAAAA".

[subego]

Now I'm vaguely recalling a fight with a waitress about whether Riesling was "re-zling" or "rice-ling". The person in our party ordering it worked for a wine distributor on top of it all. Things got a little heated. The host finally stepped in, sent her away, and comped us the bottle.

I was just a bystander, though. The stuff is horrid.

[subego]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly. I want the students to say their name slower. They say their name so fast and mumble that I often miss their name the first time and sometimes the second time.

Okay... this I get.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by subego 

Now I'm vaguely recalling a fight with a waitress about whether Riesling was "re-zling" or "rice-ling". The person in our party ordering it worked for a wine distributor on top of it all. Things got a little heated. The host finally stepped in, sent her away, and comped us the bottle.

I was just a bystander, though. The stuff is horrid.

I thought it was pronounced "Reez-ling"...

btw there are some excellent Rieslings, however many are far too sweet for me.


pet peeve: people who pronounce Sake as "Sa-key"... it's pronounced "Sa-kay", same for shiitake (it's shee-takay not shee-tah-key) etc.... oy vey

[osiris]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Most restaurants I've been to that put french things on the menu seem to have staff that know the right way to say things. I can't even think of another way to say crème brûlée. (I did struggle with the accent marks there though). Cream Brooley? Cram Brooleee? brrr.

Escargot? I can see someone messing up, even if they silly enough to order it.

Also, please do use Parisian pronunciation in Quebec.

La croissan'wich mossier

[subego]

Originally Posted by osiris 

I thought it was pronounced "Reez-ling"...

btw there are some excellent Rieslings, however many are far too sweet for me.

You've got it right. The waitress was insisting on the rice version. I won't quibble where to bust up the syllables.

I've never found one dry enough to not make me go "blarghhh". Friend of mine loves it, but has switched over to Moscato. Blarghhh.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by subego 

You've got it right. The waitress was insisting on the rice version. I won't quibble where to bust up the syllables..

You need to channel your inner Larry David.

Originally Posted by subego 

I've never found one dry enough to not make me go "blarghhh". Friend of mine loves it, but has switched over to Moscato. Blarghhh.

I picked up a Honey riesling that actually tasted ok during the tasting, but drank like raw corn syrup when I actually opened a bottle... christ I still get chills.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by osiris 

I thought it was pronounced "Reez-ling"...

btw there are some excellent Rieslings, however many are far too sweet for me.


pet peeve: people who pronounce Sake as "Sa-key"... it's pronounced "Sa-kay", same for shiitake (it's shee-takay not shee-tah-key) etc.... oy vey

It's actually pronounced more like "sah-keh" rather than "sah-kay", which in turn is a particular pet peeve of *mine*.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

It's actually pronounced more like "sah-keh" rather than "sah-kay", which in turn is a particular pet peeve of *mine*.

partially true, depending on where you are in Japan and how much of the stuff you had. The important thing here is that it's not ****ing sah-key.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

which in turn is a particular pet peeve of *mine*.

one of many, I'm sure.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by osiris 

one of many, I'm sure.

You get that impression too, eh? He's a real joy to be around.

[osiris]

oui oui

[FireWire]

The same can be said about Mexican restaurants.. I try to use the correct pronunciation, like "poyo" for pollo (chicken) but the waiters often repeat with the wrong pronunciation..

The catch with French is that most of the time, the final letter is silent. So gratin is not "grattan" but like this (the UK one). Filet mignon is not pronounced "filett mignonne" but more like "filay mignong" (like this).

Originally Posted by subego 

So, who here consistently uses the proper French pronunciation for the word "Paris"?

I think it's normal for people to pronounce names in their native tongue. In Québec we say Londres and not London, we say Christophe Colomb and not Cristobal Columbus, États-Unis and not United States, Mexique and not Mexico, etc

Originally Posted by mattyb

Fried apples?

Potatoes can be called either "patates" or "pommes de terre" (ground apples).

[andi*pandi]

But patates is a very quebecois term, right? Would a Parisian know it?

[ghporter]

...I think a Belgian would, but that may be simply because it's similar to the Waloon word for potatoes.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Fried apples?

I missed this. Yeah, those are delicious too.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Potatoes can be called either "patates" or "pommes de terre" (ground apples).

Cheers. After 14 years of living in France, I've managed to grasp that.

Frites is the word used for Those slices of potatoes deep fried in oil/French Fries/Freedom Fries in France. In my house, I call them chips. The French call crisps chips.