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Car Troubles
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Uncle Skeleton
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Jun 4, 2009, 10:11 PM
 
I just discovered my clutch is dying. My mechanic (who is pretty trustworthy) said it will be about $1000 for a new one. KBB says the car is worth about $2300 as is, or $2800 if I fix the clutch. It's a '95 BMW 318i, stick shift, 2D coupe, 160k miles.

What would you do?

I know the 3 main options, I'm interested in other ideas though. There's...
1. Get a new clutch, hope nothing else breaks for a while (last repair was the alternator about a year ago)
2. Sell the car and get another car (downgrade, since this is more car than we need right now).
3. Sell it and go car-less. I only drive around 4000 miles a year, but I would miss it. There's zipcar here, and by my calculations I would break even if I rented one for less than 12 hours per month (considering savings from insurance, gas, and maintenance, not counting depreciation). I would still have a motorcycle and bicycle. The zipcar would be for shopping big items, and trips (rare).
4. ? helicopter? jetpack? dogsled? sailboat?
     
phantomdragonz
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Jun 5, 2009, 12:06 AM
 
replace the clutch and sell it. find a different mechanic who might do it for cheaper!

-Zach
     
Laminar
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Jun 5, 2009, 12:22 AM
 
I was in your exact situation last March - turns out a Stage 1 clutch wasn't good for more than 20,000 miles with the other upgrades I've done to my car. I chose option 5: Fix it myself. It's still sitting in my garage up on jackstands, I haven't driven it in over two months, and I can't say I really miss it. I've put over 3000 miles on my motorcycle since then, and I've only gotten drenched three times. If I really need a car, I can usually arrange something with my fiancee.

I say ditch the car and get a good rainsuit (being in Seattle and all). You could try and find a BMW forum online that has some local guys that would be willing to help you fix the car - I found a guy in Minnesota that offered to fix my clutch for the cost of parts and a case of beer, but I didn't think my car would make a five hour trip at that point, so I didn't accept.
     
SSharon
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Jun 5, 2009, 12:27 AM
 
I'm in a similar position as the problems from my 92 Camry are increasing every day. At the moment I'm debating whether I should fix the 2 hydraulic engine mounts that are totally shot. I can't fix the air intake until those get fixed because the entire engine moves enough to tear up any new hose I put on.

Unlike the OP though I drive at least 50 miles a day and public transportation isn't available where I need to go.
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Uncle Skeleton  (op)
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Jun 5, 2009, 01:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I was in your exact situation last March - turns out a Stage 1 clutch wasn't good for more than 20,000 miles with the other upgrades I've done to my car. I chose option 5: Fix it myself. It's still sitting in my garage up on jackstands, I haven't driven it in over two months, and I can't say I really miss it. I've put over 3000 miles on my motorcycle since then, and I've only gotten drenched three times. If I really need a car, I can usually arrange something with my fiancee.

I say ditch the car and get a good rainsuit (being in Seattle and all). You could try and find a BMW forum online that has some local guys that would be willing to help you fix the car - I found a guy in Minnesota that offered to fix my clutch for the cost of parts and a case of beer, but I didn't think my car would make a five hour trip at that point, so I didn't accept.
Well there's a couple of problems with that. I don't have a garage and my condo would never let me have a car up on jacks for 2 months in the parking lot (probably not even 2 days). Then there's my girlfriend, we already sold her car to share mine, so if we lose mine then she has to ride in the rain too, and I already know she won't. Lastly, I don't know if I'd trust my life to a DIY car at my level of un-skilled-ness, and my girlfriend wouldn't let me anyway (no, I'm not whipped, she's just smarter than me). I'll take a look into local guys, but it probably won't go that way...

What are you going to do when it snows?

Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
I'm in a similar position as the problems from my 92 Camry are increasing every day. At the moment I'm debating whether I should fix the 2 hydraulic engine mounts that are totally shot. I can't fix the air intake until those get fixed because the entire engine moves enough to tear up any new hose I put on.

Unlike the OP though I drive at least 50 miles a day and public transportation isn't available where I need to go.
So what are you going to do? What's the estimate and what's the car worth?
     
Laminar
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Jun 5, 2009, 09:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
What are you going to do when it snows?
Well, I'm moving in August, so I'll have to have it fixed by then. I've just really been taking my time with it - if I had all of the tools I could have it done in a day or so, but life gets in the way and it's not a big priority for me right now. The guy in Minnesota said he could have it done in three hours.
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 5, 2009, 09:50 AM
 
I'd put the new clutch in and keep driving it. The clutches are meant to wear-out and be serviced. It's not like this is some kind of unheard-of breakdown. If you experience just one such large-ish repair per year, you're doing fairly well. That's not a bad repair record.

It really comes down to comparing the yearly costs of keeping an older car running against the yearly costs of making loan payments (unless you can pay cash for a replacement vehicle, of course.) We've kept our 2001 Maxima SE going for over 300k miles now, because we determined that plopping-down the occasional bucks for a repair were still more affordable than a new set of payments and increased insurance on a (probably) newer car.
     
Doofy
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Jun 5, 2009, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
What would you do?
Stick a larger engine in while I was at it.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Uncle Skeleton  (op)
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Jun 5, 2009, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
It really comes down to comparing the yearly costs of keeping an older car running against the yearly costs of making loan payments
Your post is comforting because I get to keep everything the way it is, but I don't know if you're giving enough weight to the fact that a car is basically a luxury item for me. Comparing it to a new car definitely wins, but comparing it to not having a car at all becomes a real challenge. For example, if you didn't already have a car, would you buy one so you could go camping twice a year? On the other hand, would I want to go camping if it cost $140 to rent a zipcar to get there?
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 5, 2009, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
...but I don't know if you're giving enough weight to the fact that a car is basically a luxury item for me.
Ah. Well, that point wasn't entirely clear up-front. Where I live, a vehicle is pretty-much a necessity.

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
...For example, if you didn't already have a car, would you buy one so you could go camping twice a year?
Oh, hell no. Not unless you could find a good, solid old Subaru that someone is letting go at a ridiculously low price. (I know...dream on.) You'd still have upkeep and repairs on any car, though.

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
On the other hand, would I want to go camping if it cost $140 to rent a zipcar to get there?
I would hope not. I'd be finding some camping buddies with wheels.

Ultimately, of course, only you can make the value judgment on whether it works for you to repair the car or just give up owning your own wheels for now. I know how tight money can be these days, but part of our own value judgment has been the fact that we simply can't operate without wheels and, so, find the cash (somehow) to make necessary repairs when they come up. YMMV.
     
SSharon
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Jun 5, 2009, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
So what are you going to do? What's the estimate and what's the car worth?
The car is worth about $1600 according to KBB.com. It needs 2 x $100 engine mounts and $90 air intake hoses at a bare minimum, plus the cost of labor which so far I have been able to avoid by doing things myself. I also already put in $50 for one of the easier engine mounts to replace. The front brake rotors are also due to be changed, the gas door fell off, and a few bulbs are out. The car only has 145k miles and gets me 28mpg on average (I do almost entirely highway driving) so for now my plans are to keep it.

I did notice a nice 2003 Lexus ES with 55k for under $14k, but until I get myself a job that is still out of reach.
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seanc
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Jun 5, 2009, 05:37 PM
 
I'd stick with the car you have - you know its history, problems and the cost to fix them.

If you bought another 2nd hand car, you'll probably spend more money purchasing it, than repairing your current car, and may well run across some niggly issues that the previous owner didn't bother to fix, because he/she was selling it.
     
Gavin
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Jun 6, 2009, 01:59 AM
 
Buy a haynes manual ($30), a clutch kit ($200), jack stands ($40), and get two friends to come over on saturday morning.

the part:
Clutch Kit - 1995 BMW - AutoPartsWarehouse.com

instructions:
Pelican Technical Article: BMW Clutch Replacement

It's kind of a pain and it will be a long day, but there's nothing magical about it. Just don't get any grease on the clutch plate.


An other option would be to trade for it. No real special tools are needed, so any car guy could do it for you. You buy the parts. Swap 6 hours of car work for some macintosh wizardry. There are websites for that kind of thing.
( Last edited by Gavin; Jun 6, 2009 at 02:07 AM. )
You can take the dude out of So Cal, but you can't take the dude outta the dude, dude!
     
Laminar
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Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Jun 6, 2009, 02:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
Buy a haynes manual ($30), a clutch kit ($200), jack stands ($40), and get two friends to come over on saturday morning.

the part:
Clutch Kit - 1995 BMW - AutoPartsWarehouse.com

instructions:
Pelican Technical Article: BMW Clutch Replacement

It's kind of a pain and it will be a long day, but there's nothing magical about it. Just don't get any grease on the clutch plate.
That sounds like a piece of cake. Ford recommends pulling the entire engine out to replace my clutch.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jun 6, 2009, 06:29 AM
 
I'd sell it and quick. Once car repairs get to be one third of the value of the car, your just throwing you're money away.
     
Uncle Skeleton  (op)
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Jun 7, 2009, 09:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by seanc View Post
I'd stick with the car you have - you know its history, problems and the cost to fix them.

If you bought another 2nd hand car, you'll probably spend more money purchasing it, than repairing your current car, and may well run across some niggly issues that the previous owner didn't bother to fix, because he/she was selling it.
The thing is, if I was going to change cars, now is the time. There's no particular reason I have this car in the first place, it was a hand-me-down. I hadn't ever put much thought into what I really want in a car. Do I want a deisel that can go 800 miles per tank, or a 4-wheel drive, or a small truck, or.... I don't really know what I've been missing. What is there to look for in a car that's not a necessity?
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 7, 2009, 11:51 PM
 
Clutches are always spendy but I'd just do it on my own. That BMW gets good gas mileage and has plenty of life left. Honestly, you're pretty lucky to get 160k miles out of a clutch these days.
     
d4nth3m4n
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Jun 8, 2009, 02:04 AM
 
Grab wrenches, man up.

It's not that hard of a repair.
     
turtle777
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Jun 8, 2009, 09:30 AM
 
I'd get it repaired.

If you like the car, and it's in good shape other than the clutch, a $ 1,000 repair is not that bad.

Even if it only keeps you driving one more year, the $ 1,000 is a $ 83 / month car note equivalent.
Much cheaper than getting anything new. Save the difference for a new car later on.

-t
     
Andrew Stephens
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Jun 8, 2009, 09:57 AM
 
We had this exact same dilema with our Golf GTi a while back. Generally we figured that the occasional hit for brakes and other sundries was much much cheaper than any change.

The Golf (a 1999 GTi turbo) racked up 180,000 before the engine let go big time, while we were on holiday.

This time the calculation was £1500 - £2500 for an engine replacement (depending on type of engine sourced) including labour. The car was worth around £1200 so we let it go (we got the grand total of £150 for it from the garage it was towed too after their tow fee was paid).

We spent £2000 on a diesel Mondeo estate instead. Boy were we hosed. Despite being cautious on the test drive etc the car promptly swallowed £1000 in repair bills that the previous owner could not have been unaware of it needeing and still needs another £800 or so minimum spent to get it back up to scratch.

We nearly went for a brand new Citroen C5 diesel estate but didn't want the monthly payments.

Wish we'd stuck with the golf.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 8, 2009, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Oh, hell no. Not unless you could find a good, solid old Subaru that someone is letting go at a ridiculously low price. (I know...dream on.) You'd still have upkeep and repairs on any car, though.
I just put $1600 worth of repairs into my 1996 Subaru (brakes, an oil leak/pump, etc). It's paid off, insurance is cheap, and I haven't had to put a lot into it this year til now. Still cheaper than any down payment I would need for a new car. I want to see if it will last as long as my other subarus. Only at 150K so far.

Even if you pay someone to do the clutch, it's still a good deal.
     
Penguirl
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Jun 8, 2009, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I just discovered my clutch is dying. My mechanic (who is pretty trustworthy) said it will be about $1000 for a new one. KBB says the car is worth about $2300 as is, or $2800 if I fix the clutch. It's a '95 BMW 318i, stick shift, 2D coupe, 160k miles.

What would you do?
The very first thing I would do is forget KBB and check it's value at New Car Prices, Used Car Values, New Car Reviews & Car Buying Guides - NADAguides.com Official Site. Only then can you make an informed decision.
     
Uncle Skeleton  (op)
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Jun 8, 2009, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by d4nth3m4n View Post
Grab wrenches, man up.

It's not that hard of a repair.
From the instructional above: "Hmm, I wish I could say this was an easy job, but it's not." I really appreciate the links, Gavin, and I did seriously consider it, and I love the idea of turning a small crisis into a learning opportunity, but this is just out of my league. I don't even change my own oil (because the alternative is too cheap to make it justified), and like I said, I don't have a garage or any tools.
     
Uncle Skeleton  (op)
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Jun 8, 2009, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Penguirl View Post
The very first thing I would do is forget KBB and check it's value at New Car Prices, Used Car Values, New Car Reviews & Car Buying Guides - NADAguides.com Official Site. Only then can you make an informed decision.
It seems that all I can get from that site is asking prices, or am I missing something? It doesn't tell me a whole lot about what I could get for it, done-deal, but it seems to be not far off from the kbb value, considering I'm not a dealer, and there is some cosmetic damage.
     
Uncle Skeleton  (op)
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Jun 8, 2009, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Honestly, you're pretty lucky to get 160k miles out of a clutch these days.
Yes, on the other hand, what other components are about to blow despite being pretty lucky to have lasted this long?
     
Penguirl
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Jun 8, 2009, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
It seems that all I can get from that site is asking prices, or am I missing something? It doesn't tell me a whole lot about what I could get for it, done-deal, but it seems to be not far off from the kbb value, considering I'm not a dealer, and there is some cosmetic damage.
It gives three trade-in values (rough, average, and clean), and a clean retail value. These are the numbers dealers use which gives you a more accurate gauge for the market.

KBB may be close on some listings, but it will be far off on others. NADA is pretty much the official blue book.
     
Uncle Skeleton  (op)
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Jun 8, 2009, 03:16 PM
 
But a dealer won't be giving you as much as you can get by selling it privately will they? I had no intention of trading it in to a dealer. I don't see what the trade-in or retail value tells you about the private party sale value.
     
Penguirl
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Jun 8, 2009, 03:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
But a dealer won't be giving you as much as you can get by selling it privately will they? I had no intention of trading it in to a dealer. I don't see what the trade-in or retail value tells you about the private party sale value.
It's retail value as a private seller will be in-between the clean trade-in value and the clean dealer retail value.
     
   
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