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Kerrigan · Jun 20, 2007, 05:28 PM

HDDVD was too awkward to say anyways, glad it lost the format war.

goMac · Jun 20, 2007, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Lets just admit no matter what the pro BR news even if they are at 90% sales over HD you will just discredit it one way or another.

So don't bother. we get it.

First, his numbers are a bit slanted, as to be expected. Right now we're around 60/40, with Bluray leading. Second, even if he was right and Bluray was outselling HD-DVD 2:1, that's still not enough to lead to the death of HD-DVD.

Honestly, this whole thing is a bit silly. The platform war is confined to the pro-sumer right now. Consumers just aren't buying either format. By the time that either format starts making strides with the normal consumer, online downloads will be available. Who cares about who Blockbuster chooses? They're a dying breed, and online downloads will do them in.

This is another reason I like the XBox 360. Microsoft gets it. You can get the HD-DVD player if you want, but without any special drive you can download 1080p movies and watch them on your 360. And why should I care if Disney isn't on Bluray? It won't be long before Apple is offering Finding Nemo in 720p at least on iTunes. Can you even get that on Bluray?

Online downloads are the one format that all titles will be available in. I think that alone will be enough to make the online format more attractive to the average consumer than HD-DVD or Bluray.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 21, 2007, 01:30 AM

BD+ has been finalized - avalanche of Fox Blu-ray movies expected to follow - PS3 Fanboy

The good news continues to roll-in for Blu-ray, with the announcement that the advanced copy-protection system, BD+ has been finalized and is available for implementation by the movie studios. While normally additional DRM is not a good thing, the delay in the finalization of BD+ is what caused Fox and Disney to massively slow down their Blu-ray release schedule. So BD+ going live means that there is a very good chance that we'll see a huge amount of Fox and Disney titles come out in the next couple months.

Interestingly, Blu-ray.com has said that "other studios, including those who currently don't support Blu-ray, have shown some interest as well" in BD+, hinting that additional studios may be coming onboard the Blu-ray train. No specifics were given, but you have to wonder how much longer Universal is going to hold out. After this week, HD-DVD is going to have to pull off one hell of a Hail Mary to win.

pooka · Jun 21, 2007, 01:33 AM

YAY! Additional DRM == Consumers WIN! YAY!

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 21, 2007, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by pooka

YAY! Additional DRM == Consumers WIN! YAY!

You want to break the law?

At any rate.... yes we do as more titles will come out now for it. not to mention BR still will have managed copying.

icruise · Jun 21, 2007, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Honestly, this whole thing is a bit silly. The platform war is confined to the pro-sumer right now. Consumers just aren't buying either format. By the time that either format starts making strides with the normal consumer, online downloads will be available. Who cares about who Blockbuster chooses? They're a dying breed, and online downloads will do them in.

So now you're saying that both formats are irrelevant because of downloads, eh? No sour grapes here.

Originally Posted by goMac

This is another reason I like the XBox 360. Microsoft gets it. You can get the HD-DVD player if you want, but without any special drive you can download 1080p movies and watch them on your 360.

Downloadable movies from XBL are only 720p. So while they are in HD, they can't really compare to either HD-DVD or Blu-ray in audio or video quality. And while I have a 360, I don't have any interest in filling up my 20GB hard disk with a handful of movies that will only be viewable on the 360.

And why should I care if Disney isn't on Bluray? It won't be long before Apple is offering Finding Nemo in 720p at least on iTunes. Can you even get that on Bluray?

Nemo is coming later in the year, according to the post that excalibur made a while ago, as is Cars and some other Disney titles.

Online downloads are the one format that all titles will be available in. I think that alone will be enough to make the online format more attractive to the average consumer than HD-DVD or Bluray.

I couldn't disagree more, at least for the foreseeable future. Downloads are inferior in quality, require more work to play and store, and are tied to a particular download service AND a particular user account, which is infinitely worse than either of the physical HD formats.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by icruise

So now you're saying that both formats are irrelevant because of downloads, eh? No sour grapes here.

C'mon. As a Mac user you should see this. Apple is one of the biggest suppliers of media online in the world. I think another reason for both Bluray and HD-DVD not being seen on the Mac yet is both formats compete with the iTunes Movie Store, especially if the iTunes movie store goes HD.

So really, if you want to be a "good Mac user", you should be rooting against both formats.

Originally Posted by icruise

Downloadable movies from XBL are only 720p. So while they are in HD, they can't really compare to either HD-DVD or Blu-ray in audio or video quality. And while I have a 360, I don't have any interest in filling up my 20GB hard disk with a handful of movies that will only be viewable on the 360.

You're right, they're only 720p. I think streaming is the way things will go, meaning hd size will be irrelevant.

Originally Posted by icruise

Nemo is coming later in the year, according to the post that excalibur made a while ago, as is Cars and some other Disney titles.

But Apple may be able to beat the Bluray to market with their own HD version on iTunes.

Originally Posted by icruise

I couldn't disagree more, at least for the foreseeable future. Downloads are inferior in quality, require more work to play and store, and are tied to a particular download service AND a particular user account, which is infinitely worse than either of the physical HD formats.

Inferior quality for whom? Most average consumers don't have 5.1 audio, and the ones that do have HD are on 720p. Almost no consumers have plasmas that are 1080p, and honestly, I think consumers are buying more cheap 720p LCD's then 1080p LCD's. I don't disagree that both formats will stick around for the prosumer, but we're probably only a few years away from internet connections being able to stream 1080p video reliably. 5.1 audio is the only sticking point, but again, the average consumer is not going to care about that.

analogue SPRINKLES · 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

You're right, they're only 720p. I think streaming is the way things will go, meaning hd size will be irrelevant..

Oh ya that would be wonderful, you need a fast net connection every-time you want to watch a movie and get hickups and compression artifacts all the time.

I'll take BR thanks.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Oh ya that would be wonderful, you need a fast net connection every-time you want to watch a movie and get hickups and compression artifacts all the time.

I'll take BR thanks.

Really? Huh. That's odd. I'm watching the Wall-e trailer on Apple's web site in 720p while it downloads, and I'm not hitting the end of the buffer or having any quality issues. It's just downloading while I play it.

What are you on over there? 56k?

jokell82 · Jun 21, 2007, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

BD+ has been finalized - avalanche of Fox Blu-ray movies expected to follow - PS3 Fanboy

The good news continues to roll-in for Blu-ray, with the announcement that the advanced copy-protection system, BD+ has been finalized and is available for implementation by the movie studios. While normally additional DRM is not a good thing, the delay in the finalization of BD+ is what caused Fox and Disney to massively slow down their Blu-ray release schedule. So BD+ going live means that there is a very good chance that we'll see a huge amount of Fox and Disney titles come out in the next couple months.

Interestingly, Blu-ray.com has said that "other studios, including those who currently don't support Blu-ray, have shown some interest as well" in BD+, hinting that additional studios may be coming onboard the Blu-ray train. No specifics were given, but you have to wonder how much longer Universal is going to hold out. After this week, HD-DVD is going to have to pull off one hell of a Hail Mary to win.

Already posted on the last page, and there is no proof that either company was waiting for BD+. But enjoy your new DRM.

Oh wait, I forgot, this screws over people who already bought Blu-Ray players, because guess what - the movies released with BD+ wont play on their players.

Man Blu-Ray is kickass!

Dakarʒ · Jun 21, 2007, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Here's my gauge. If I bought a top of the line DVD upscaler (which is what my friend was using his PS3 for), say the Oppo, do you think it's fans would come on if it was inside a home theatre cabinet and drown out the movie?

So would you still have it out for the PS3 if it didn't run that hot?

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

So would you still have it out for the PS3 if it didn't run that hot?

Depends. If making it less hot meant scaling back the Cell chip which in turn would make the machine cheaper, I probably wouldn't have it out as much for the PS3.

Dakarʒ · Jun 21, 2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Depends. If making it less hot meant scaling back the Cell chip which in turn would make the machine cheaper, I probably wouldn't have it out as much for the PS3.

Here's my point. The original post complains about too much processing power and
electricity usage, but just seems like nitpicking when if it ran cooler your only real legit complain would be solved.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 21, 2007, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Already posted on the last page, and there is no proof that either company was waiting for BD+. But enjoy your new DRM.

Oh wait, I forgot, this screws over people who already bought Blu-Ray players, because guess what - the movies released with BD+ wont play on their players.

Man Blu-Ray is kickass!

it is called ROM updates.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Here's my point. The original post complains about too much processing power and
electricity usage, but just seems like nitpicking when if it ran cooler your only real legit complain would be solved.

But that's how you make things run cooler. You reduce the electrical usage. That's why smaller chips run cooler usually. They actually use less power.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

it is called ROM updates.

How many Bluray players have internet connectivity?

I think Sony's plan is just to screw everyone who doesn't have a PS3.

starman · Jun 21, 2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

How many Bluray players have internet connectivity?

I think Sony's plan is just to screw everyone who doesn't have a PS3.

I know that there are players that can be updated with a firmware CD-R. I did that on my Samsung BR player.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 21, 2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

How many Bluray players have internet connectivity?

I think Sony's plan is just to screw everyone who doesn't have a PS3.

Nope you can put it on a CD-R. But thanks for the PS3 bitching.

Go play a DVD on the wii

Dakarʒ · Jun 21, 2007, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

But that's how you make things run cooler. You reduce the electrical usage. That's why smaller chips run cooler usually. They actually use less power.

Sure, but you're listing the same problem twice then, trying to make things seem worse than they are. It's like me saying "Oh my car has really shitty tires and it handles like crap too."

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Sure, but you're listing the same problem twice then, trying to make things seem worse than they are. It's like me saying "Oh my car has really shitty tires and it handles like crap too."

Why does it matter how I said it? The PS3 draws too much power and as a result is extremely noisy in a closed space. If you'd like to discuss the semantacs of drawing too much power and generating too much heat as being the same problem... I'm not sure that's really the point. You asked why I was concerned about the PS3 power usage and I answered.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Nope you can put it on a CD-R. But thanks for the PS3 bitching.

And how many of the average Blockbuster renting consumers that you love to talk about do you think would be able to figure this out? I'm assuming the player is going to throw up a nice screen explaining to them why they can't play the disc they just bought and guiding them through burning a CD with a new ROM on it.

Of course all HD-DVD players can just grab the firmware update online themselves.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 21, 2007, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

And how many of the average Blockbuster renting consumers that you love to talk about do you think would be able to figure this out? I'm assuming the player is going to throw up a nice screen explaining to them why they can't play the disc they just bought and guiding them through burning a CD with a new ROM on it.

Of course all HD-DVD players can just grab the firmware update online themselves.

They'll figure it out if they are smart enough to hook up an HD system to begin with.

And this thread isn't about the heat from the PS3. IT is that HD-DVD has been losing on all counts since late december with no major turning point coming.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

They'll figure it out if they are smart enough to hook up an HD system to begin with.

Reeeaaaalllllyyyyy. You're equating plugging in wires with sensing that your player needs a firmware update because it won't play a disc, finding it online, downloading it to cd, and then installing it.

I sense Geek Squad will be making lots of money from overcharging for firmware update service.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

And this thread isn't about the heat from the PS3. IT is that HD-DVD has been losing on all counts since late december with no major turning point coming.

You're the one who brings up the PS3. If you don't want to talk about the PS3 as a Bluray player, then don't bring it up.

icruise · Jun 21, 2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

And how many of the average Blockbuster renting consumers that you love to talk about do you think would be able to figure this out?

You just got done explaining that HD video was the realm of the pro-sumer and that normal people wouldn't care. Which is it? But anyway, the Blockbuster renting consumers are going to be primarily PS3 owners for the moment. Most people who went to the trouble of getting a standalone BR player this early in the game will be aware of these issues and capable of updating the firmware.

I'm assuming the player is going to throw up a nice screen explaining to them why they can't play the disc they just bought and guiding them through burning a CD with a new ROM on it.

Interesting idea. I actually think that it would be perfectly possible to have the firmware updates for every existing model of BR player stored on the movie's BR disc, in the same way that PSP firmware updates are included right on the games that require them. Of course, it may be that the updates wouldn't be ready in time for the discs to be pressed, but the concept is sound, I think.

Dakarʒ · Jun 21, 2007, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Why does it matter how I said it?

Because your opinion is coming off as ridiculously biased. You make good points but its hard to take you seriously with that chip on your shoulder. And yes, there's a few others in here the same goes for (hello analogue).

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

You just got done explaining that HD video was the realm of the pro-sumer and that normal people wouldn't care. Which is it? But anyway, the Blockbuster renting consumers are going to be primarily PS3 owners for the moment. Most people who went to the trouble of getting a standalone BR player this early in the game will be aware of these issues and capable of updating the firmware.

I was pointing out the discrepancy of SWG arguing that the Blockbuster move matters because HD player users are consumer drones who will go to Blockbuster, but then saying that all consumers are suddenly prosumers who will be aware of the firmware update and know how to install it.

Originally Posted by icruise

Interesting idea. I actually think that it would be perfectly possible to have the firmware updates for every existing model of BR player stored on the movie's BR disc, in the same way that PSP firmware updates are included right on the games that require them. Of course, it may be that the updates wouldn't be ready in time for the discs to be pressed, but the concept is sound, I think.

I'm going to guess the Bluray players don't support this, although it would be nice if they did.

pooka · Jun 21, 2007, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

You want to break the law?

At any rate.... yes we do as more titles will come out now for it. not to mention BR still will have managed copying.

Have you stopped beating your boyfriend, yet?

Yes, me commenting on the draconian DRM being piled on BR like fratboys on a passed out freshman has exposed my true feelings on the matter. My only concern is breaking the law.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Because your opinion is coming off as ridiculously biased. You make good points but its hard to take you seriously with that chip on your shoulder. And yes, there's a few others in here the same goes for (hello analogue).

Ok, so I already don't like the PS3. But I'm not making up the PS3 running with it's fan full blast just because it's in an a/v cabinet. I simply don't feel the PS3 is built for home theater use as much as SWG claims it is.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 21, 2007, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Ok, so I already don't like the PS3. But I'm not making up the PS3 running with it's fan full blast just because it's in an a/v cabinet. I simply don't feel the PS3 is built for home theater use as much as SWG claims it is.

Works fantastic in my home theatre and AVS forums agree that is the the best BR player and even the best upconverting DVD player on the market so I don't see your argument of locking it in the case and the fans make too much noise for you.

P.s. HD-DVD is losing since Jan if that hasn't sunk in yet.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Works fantastic in my home theatre and AVS forums agree that is the the best BR player and even the best upconverting DVD player on the market so I don't see your argument of locking it in the case and the fans make too much noise for you.

P.s. HD-DVD is losing since Jan if that hasn't sunk in yet.

If the PS3 is the best Bluray player, I'll be skipping on Bluray. Thanks.

starman · Jun 21, 2007, 12:40 PM

My PS3 works very well as a BR player in my HT setup. Why would you think it doesn't? It upscales much better than the 360 does.

goMac · Jun 21, 2007, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by starman

My PS3 works very well as a BR player in my HT setup. Why would you think it doesn't? It upscales much better than the 360 does.

Because if the standalone players are so bad that the PS3 is honestly the best Bluray player, then there is a problem. There should at least be standalone players on par with the PS3, for people who would like IR remotes, the ability to put in A/V cabinets, and also not want to pay for the rest of the stuff that comes with the Playstation.

When getting a good player for a format requires buying a Playstation with a bunch of crap I won't need or use I'll pass.

Adam Betts · Jun 21, 2007, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

If the PS3 is the best Bluray player, I'll be skipping on Bluray. Thanks.

I'll have to disagree, it's the best Bluray player for numerous reason. In long term it will be a worthy purchase whetever you're a gamer or not

jokell82 · Jun 21, 2007, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Adam Betts

I'll have to disagree, it's the best Bluray player for numerous reason. In long term it will be a worthy purchase whetever you're a gamer or not

The only thing the PS3 has over any other Blu-Ray player right now is video quality. Other than that it is worse in pretty much every other aspect vs. standalone players (and I'm not so sure it hands-down beats every other player in video quality, but that's pretty accepted right now). It's not the cheapest anymore, either.

I'm shocked so many home theater buffs like it so much, if only because of the lack of IR port. That alone kills it as any kind of media player for me.

ort888 · Jun 21, 2007, 01:59 PM

The lack of an IR port, or (at the very least ) an IR adapter is a major oversight.

Dakarʒ · Jun 21, 2007, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

But I'm not making up the PS3 running with it's fan full blast just because it's in an a/v cabinet. I simply don't feel the PS3 is built for home theater use as much as SWG claims it is.

I believe it and that's a reasonable opinion.

jokell82 · Jun 21, 2007, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

The lack of an IR port, or (at the very least ) an IR adapter is a major oversight.

Well apparently old PS2 adapters will work with it, but some functions just don't work.

exca1ibur · Jun 21, 2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

The lack of an IR port, or (at the very least ) an IR adapter is a major oversight.

Take your pick.

Wholesale USB IrDA Adapter
Irda Adapter manufacturers

Dakarʒ · Jun 21, 2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

HDDVD was too awkward to say anyways, glad it lost the format war.

Yeah, I really don't care who wins, but thats pretty much sounds like my logic for leaning slightly towards Blu-Ray.

icruise · Jun 21, 2007, 02:22 PM

The PS3-as-Bluray player is a temporary phenomenon. We already have standalones that are cheaper than the PS3, and the prices of hardware are going to continue to drop. It's not like Blu-ray is going to be tied to the PS3 forever. But it really is a great machine. I would prefer it if there were more (or any) must-have PS3 games, but those are coming. At the moment it plays (and upscales) PS1 and PS2 games and DVDs and plays PS3 games and Blu-ray movies. That's quite a deal, if you ask me.

Originally Posted by jokell82

Well apparently old PS2 adapters will work with it, but some functions just don't work.

All functions work. It's just that you won't have dedicated buttons for everything, and will instead have to use the onscreen menu for some things.

macintologist · Jun 21, 2007, 02:42 PM

Whats a good website that follows the format wars?

Adam Betts · Jun 21, 2007, 03:21 PM

Blu-ray name certainly sounds cool but I have to admit I was pretty disappointed when I found out that disc isn't blue

jokell82 · Jun 21, 2007, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

All functions work. It's just that you won't have dedicated buttons for everything, and will instead have to use the onscreen menu for some things.

So you can turn the device on and off with an IR remote? I had heard that wasn't possible...

icruise · Jun 21, 2007, 06:02 PM

That's a good point. I'm pretty sure that you can't turn it on with the IR remote. I can't recall if you can turn it off. It depends on whether or not you call simulate a press of the PS button. So if you wanted to turn it on remotely, you'd have to keep a PS3 controller around, or use the BT remote.

jokell82 · Jun 21, 2007, 06:03 PM

See and that's a freaking $.50 part they could've added to the system. Doesn't make any sense to me at all...

marzetta7 · Jun 21, 2007, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by macintologist

Whats a good website that follows the format wars?

Blu-ray.com is a great website to follow the format wars. Some would point you to AVS forums, but that area has been overrun with Microsoft employees working hard to push HD DVD.

Also, here is a bit of statistics to display how Blu-ray is dominating the format wars (and has been since the beginning of the year)...

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending May 6th

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-60% HDD-40% YTD: BD-68% HDD-32% SI: BD-57% HDD-43%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending May 13th

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-62% HDD-38% YTD: BD-68% HDD-32% SI: BD-57% HDD-43%

Nieslsen/VideoScan Numbers ending May 20th

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-58% HDD-42% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-57% HDD-43%

Nieslsen/VideoScan Numbers ending May 27th

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-69% HDD-31% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-58% HDD-42%

Nieslsen/VideoScan Numbers ending June 3rd

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-61% HDD-39% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-59% HDD-41%

Nieslsen/VideoScan Numbers ending June 10th

NXTbook flash detection page

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-59% HDD-41%

icruise · Jun 21, 2007, 06:30 PM

Cue post from goMac about how those numbers actually show that HD-DVD is on the rebound.

Kerrigan · Jun 21, 2007, 06:47 PM

Ummm HDDVD is on the rebound.

For instance, in Djibouti, for the entire month of May, and the first half of June, total sales (in single units) breakdown as follows:

BR: 3 disks sold
HDDVD: 6 disks sold

Developing African nations have always been considered early testing markets for consumer trends, and these latest figures show than HDDVD is soon to swamp BR with twice as many sales.

Plus my friend's cousin just bought an HDDVD player and he never goes to Blockbuster.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 21, 2007, 07:11 PM

"Even more innovative is a user-controlled subtitle feature, which allows the viewer to adjust the position of text based on display format. As has often been common with films like 'Immortal Beloved' shot in a wide 2.35:1 aspect ratio, subtitles often "bleed" into the letterbox ares of the picture, which many consumers find distracting, and (in case of those with large front-projector set-ups with variable aspect ratio screens) can cause the subtitles to be partially or completely cut off during display."

Sony Increases Dolby TrueHD Support, Introduces New Subtitle Feature with 'Immortal Beloved' Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

- - e r i k - - · Jun 21, 2007, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Ummm HDDVD is on the rebound.

For instance, in Djibouti, for the entire month of May, and the first half of June, total sales (in single units) breakdown as follows:

BR: 3 disks sold
HDDVD: 6 disks sold

Developing African nations have always been considered early testing markets for consumer trends, and these latest figures show than HDDVD is soon to swamp BR with twice as many sales.

Plus my friend's cousin just bought an HDDVD player and he never goes to Blockbuster.