[onlykaria]

ugh...

four kernel panics in just a few hours... ugh...





dont know what to do...

[Nai no Kami]

Maybe a log file could help

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by Nai no Kami

Maybe a log file could help

*********

Thu Apr 6 09:32:57 2006
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x00196CC4): simple lock deadlock detection - l=023A7AEC, cpu=0, ret=00000000
Backtrace, Format - Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
0x13c6bd48 : 0x128b5e (0x3bbeb8 0x13c6bd6c 0x131bbc 0x0)
0x13c6bd88 : 0x196cc4 (0x3c0a14 0x23a7aec 0x0 0x0)
0x13c6bda8 : 0x1350dc (0x23a7aec 0x10 0x10 0xdc813e43)
0x13c6bdf8 : 0x13572c (0x39b5e58 0x23a7ad0 0x0 0x19cb02)
0x13c6be48 : 0x1357bd (0x1384a0 0x0 0x0 0x1e)
0x13c6be68 : 0x13873e (0x1384a0 0x0 0x80 0x2)
0x13c6bec8 : 0x1387ea (0x2993f78 0x2993c34 0x13c6bee0 0x19c1e8)
0x13c6bef8 : 0x13883c (0x5a03 0x5c03 0x0 0xadfacc)
0x13c6bf28 : 0x192efc (0x13c6bf54 0x0 0x0 0x0)
0x13c6bfd8 : 0x197fa6 (0x39b60d0 0x39b60d0 0x134aec 0x13c6bfe4) No mapping exists for frame pointer
Backtrace terminated-invalid frame pointer 0xb0101d78

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.6.1: Tue Mar 7 16:55:45 PST 2006; root:xnu-792.9.22.obj~1/RELEASE_I386


*********

Thu Apr 6 09:35:21 2006
panic(cpu 1 caller 0x0019CAEF): Unresolved kernel trap (CPU 1, Type 6=invalid opcode), registers:
CR0: 0x8001003b, CR2: 0x0031b000, CR3: 0x00d4b000, CR4: 0x000006a0
EAX: 0x00000031, EBX: 0x23de3000, ECX: 0x00000001, EDX: 0x00000400
ESP: 0x13d93ec8, EBP: 0x13d93f44, ESI: 0x44de5951, EDI: 0x0049885c
EFL: 0x00010046, EIP: 0x0019dbeb, CS: 0x00000014, DS: 0xc11a001c

Backtrace, Format - Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
0x13d93d94 : 0x128b5e (0x3bbeb8 0x13d93db8 0x131bbc 0x0)
0x13d93dd4 : 0x19caef (0x3c1340 0x1 0x6 0x3c1070)
0x13d93e84 : 0x197b53 (0x13d93e98 0x13d93f44 0x19dbeb 0x23de0048)
0x13d93e90 : 0x19dbeb (0x23de0048 0x1c 0x1c 0xc11a001c)
0x13d93f44 : 0x199021 (0x0 0x0 0x498c9c 0x216)
0x13d93f64 : 0x135d78 (0x0 0x23a3000 0x23dfd000 0x13d93f98)
0x13d93fd4 : 0x197a21 (0x0 0xffffffff 0x23a3278 0x13d93e98) Backtrace terminated-invalid frame pointer 0x0

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.6.1: Tue Mar 7 16:55:45 PST 2006; root:xnu-792.9.22.obj~1/RELEASE_I386


*********

Thu Apr 6 10:15:36 2006
panic(cpu 1 caller 0x0019CAEF): Unresolved kernel trap (CPU 1, Type 14=page fault), registers:
CR0: 0x8001003b, CR2: 0x00000001, CR3: 0x00d4b000, CR4: 0x000006a0
EAX: 0x00000001, EBX: 0x156b06d0, ECX: 0x024eae58, EDX: 0x23dfd000
ESP: 0x00000001, EBP: 0x13e63f74, ESI: 0x024eae74, EDI: 0x024eae58
EFL: 0x00010012, EIP: 0x00135740, CS: 0x00000008, DS: 0x13e60010

Backtrace, Format - Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
0x13e63de4 : 0x128b5e (0x3bbeb8 0x13e63e08 0x131bbc 0x0)
0x13e63e24 : 0x19caef (0x3c1340 0x1 0xe 0x3c10f8)
0x13e63ed4 : 0x197b53 (0x13e63ee8 0x13e63f74 0x135740 0x33af0048)
0x13e63ee0 : 0x135740 (0x33af0048 0x10 0x23de0010 0x13e60010)
0x13e63f74 : 0x135798 (0x38c690 0x24eda40 0x0 0x24eda40)
0x13e63f94 : 0x38c732 (0x38c690 0x24eda40 0x0 0x450)
0x13e63fd4 : 0x197a21 (0x24eda40 0x0 0x24eb0d0 0x156b06d0) Backtrace terminated-invalid frame pointer 0x0

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.6.1: Tue Mar 7 16:55:45 PST 2006; root:xnu-792.9.22.obj~1/RELEASE_I386


*********

[cambro]

bad hardware

probably
bad ram or
bad logic board

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by cambro

bad hardware

probably
bad ram or
bad logic board

ok, i had another... i have another... yeah i have an appointment for the genius bar tomorrow, i am going to make these suckers do something... last time i was there they tried to tell me it was bad software now i deleted anything and everything that might cause this...

[onlykaria]

i have apple installed apple ram, and apple everything...

[Tomchu]

That doesn't mean it's flawless. ;-)

Apple doesn't make their own RAM. It's still the same chips and PCBs from the same Taiwanese memory houses that you can buy at your local computer store.

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

That doesn't mean it's flawless. ;-)

Apple doesn't make their own RAM. It's still the same chips and PCBs from the same Taiwanese memory houses that you can buy at your local computer store.

yeap, but it doesnt mean its not a pain to get apple to admit that something is a foot... watch them try to blame super collapse 2 for this.

[onlykaria]

i am going to start calling the kernel panic the gray screen of death in honor of the blue screen on death on the PC.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by onlykaria

i am going to start calling the kernel panic the gray screen of death in honor of the blue screen on death on the PC.

The difference is, unless there's something seriously wrong with your system, KP should be a very rare thing. I think I have had around 4-6 since OS X 10.0 came out in 2001.

If I were in the same position, I would demand a new computer. It's ridiculous for Apple to tell its customers new, defective machines should be serviced rather than completely replaced.

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

The difference is, unless there's something seriously wrong with your system, KP should be a very rare thing. I think I have had around 4-6 since OS X 10.0 came out in 2001.

If I were in the same position, I would demand a new computer. It's ridiculous for Apple to tell its customers new, defective machines should be serviced rather than completely replaced.

how rare should they because i have had like 30 of these things in 3 weeks...

if its that rare than yeah something is wrong with this machine...

[hookem2oo7]

i've had 2 in one year of constant use of my ibook and that was when i was playing with quartz extreme 2d

[Tomchu]

Never had a kernel panic on either my iBook G4 or Mac Mini. And I've hacked up OS X like no other.

I agree with the bad RAM theory. If it were an extension that was causing the crash, it would show up in the log.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by onlykaria

how rare should they because i have had like 30 of these things in 3 weeks...

if its that rare than yeah something is wrong with this machine...

They are indeed rare with 10.4. The last few I've seen have been attributable to a bad RAM module in one case, & a bad video card in the other. I own 8 Macs running OS X and it's more normal for these things to go 50-60 days without a glitch.

[theokandroid]

I've had my PB 15 for a year now, and I've never even knew these things existed, I would definately get Apple to do something about this ASAP.

[PBG4 User]

I haven't gotten a kernel panic since Jaguar. KP's should be as rare as snow in Hawaii.

[olePigeon]

The only time my PowerBook has KPed is when I unplug my USB keyboard. It's really weird.

But I think it's the Keyboard because it'll occasionally crash my PC and render the USB ports useless until I pull the power coard out and restart a few times.

Macally iMedia Keyboard.

[harrisjamieh]

I've never had a KP on my iBook, and have had 2 or 3 in the 3 months I have had my iMac CD

[Jerome]

Kernel Panics? I thought that feature was only part of 10.0...

[onlykaria]

WOW!!! i had no idea how rare it was supposed to be... so i changed my appointment for today...its at 9.40pm...

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

Apple doesn't make their own RAM. It's still the same chips and PCBs from the same Taiwanese memory houses that you can buy at your local computer store.

Hardly. Apple only buys high quality RAM, primarily Samsung (Korean), Hynix (also Korean) and Micron (American).

Apple never ships junk RAM, which is what you are insinuating. (Most RAM out there is no-name, and likely not the top-grade product from the top-tier manufacturers that Apple uses.)

tooki

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by tooki

Hardly. Apple only buys high quality RAM, primarily Samsung (Korean), Hynix (also Korean) and Micron (American).

Apple never ships junk RAM, which is what you are insinuating. (Most RAM out there is no-name, and likely not the top-grade product from the top-tier manufacturers that Apple uses.)

tooki

Yeah, I was generalizing about the Taiwanese thing, but Apple RAM with Samsung chips is no different than generic RAM with Samsung chips. The same goes for generic Hynix, generic Micron, etc.

[thingsthatgobump]

The only time I saw a tiger based mac give alot of kernel panics was when the user had used the Case Sensivite filesystem after partitioning the mac himself. It's an option in disk tool, and messes everything up.

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by kamina

The only time I saw a tiger based mac give alot of kernel panics was when the user had used the Case Sensivite filesystem after partitioning the mac himself. It's an option in disk tool, and messes everything up.

lol lol well thats not me cause i dont mess with that kind of stuff... i didnt even know you could partition the drive and make the file system case sensitive...

[john h]

Originally Posted by cambro

bad hardware

probably
bad ram or
bad logic board

I just went through the same problem with a new PB 1.67. It was a bad 512mb ram chip installed by the seller MacMall. After I pulled the chip all is well. Now I am trying to get a replacement Ram chip fro Lifetime who made the Ram. If you have recently installed RAM you might start by pulling the latest installed. If not, pull one at a time and start your computer.

[Mike656]

Had my first KP ever on my DA 466 today running 10.4.6, hopefully its not a sign of things to come.

[john h]

Originally Posted by onlykaria

i am going to start calling the kernel panic the gray screen of death in honor of the blue screen on death on the PC.

Today after two weeks of having a kernal panic every morning on my brand new PB Ti 1.67 I took out a 512mb of ram that MacMall had installed. Guess what? No more kernal panics. The Mall is sending me a new Ram chip overnight.

[kick52]

i have not had one yet or freeze from my PMG4 (sig)

but have had 1 from the installation discs on my imac g3 (sig. freezes loads i havent found what causes them)

2 freezes from PMG3, but on OS 9, and that always freezes.

a couple from the LCs

[sweatervest]

My Powerbook started having kernal panics all the time...it turns out the airport card somehow came a bit loose and was causing them. Check the installation of your memory and your airport card.

[surfingmarmot]

It was marginal DDR RAM. It was funny. 10.3 and 10.4.3 seemed to behave jsut fine, but when I'd reboot after teh 10.4.5 upgrade...BANG! Grey screen every time. I bought new RAM from Ramjet, replaced the RAM, and the problem was solved. Kernel panics are hardware issues. Try removing any RAM you suspect or just get new 'sticks'. If hte RAM is only marignally 'misbehaving' test might not find it--so you'd go to the Genius Bar and be frustrated. When my RAM was defective, Tech Tool Pro's memory test never found the problem probably because it took thoushands of cycles to show up.

[onlykaria]

took my machine to the apple store... all the did was run a hardware test and then restart it holding down a few keys... this does not to me seem like much, but i will keep an eye for issues. its been a day and no more panics so maybe....maybe... they actually fixed the issue...

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by john h

Today after two weeks of having a kernal panic every morning on my brand new PB Ti 1.67 I took out a 512mb of ram that MacMall had installed. Guess what? No more kernal panics. The Mall is sending me a new Ram chip overnight.

The free RAM that these mail-order companies install tends to be the low quality stuff. When I was a bench tech, probably 80-90% of the bad RAM I saw was the free stuff given away by these companies.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by onlykaria

took my machine to the apple store... all the did was run a hardware test and then restart it holding down a few keys... this does not to me seem like much, but i will keep an eye for issues. its been a day and no more panics so maybe....maybe... they actually fixed the issue...

Trust me... they didn't. There are no key combinations that can fix kernel panics.

And Apple Hardware Test isn't the best for testing RAM (it's WAY better than TechTool Pro, though). Check out Rember or memtest OS X. Run one of these for a while and see what they say.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by kamina

The only time I saw a tiger based mac give alot of kernel panics was when the user had used the Case Sensivite filesystem after partitioning the mac himself. It's an option in disk tool, and messes everything up.

Well, running the new Parallels software on my iMac Core Duo at the office is a guaranteed method of KPing the machine within about 15 minutes.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

Yeah, I was generalizing about the Taiwanese thing, but Apple RAM with Samsung chips is no different than generic RAM with Samsung chips. The same goes for generic Hynix, generic Micron, etc.

Absolutely not true. For one, the quality of the circuit board is critical. Second, all the manufacturers have different grades of chips. Just because it's brand-name doesn't mean it's top-grade (and that's not even considering how many cheap RAM makers use counterfeit chips that are actually made by cheap Chinese/Taiwanese plants but have top-grade makers' brand written on them).

tooki

[Tomchu]

So why is it that the RAM that was shipped in my Mac Mini is identical to generic Samsung RAM that I can buy from Netlink Computers?

Apple RAM is just overpriced Samsung/Micron/Hynix RAM that you can buy from any store. It's probably been tested to a more stringent standard, but physically, it's not going to be any different. Apple doesn't sprinkle any magic Appledust on it to make it higher quality.

[tooki]

::Sigh::

The differences in RAM aren't visible. That's the nature of microchips. Visual inspection in no way implies that two pieces are identical. Nor do specs, as there are specs that are not published but do make a difference.

Yes, the RAM Apple buys (Apple doesn't make RAM) is of the highest standard. This same highest standard is also available elsewhere, e.g. from Crucial, often for less than Apple charges. Nobody is claiming otherwise.

The fact is, though, most RAM out there is not of the highest standard, and it is absolutely misleading to claim that all RAM is the same.

tooki

[Tomchu]

I never said all RAM is the same -- I've reviewed high-end RAM for work, so I'm quite aware of the differences. I said that the RAM that was shipped in my Mac Mini looks exactly like the RAM I can buy from my local computer store -- down to the model/revision markings on the PCB.

Oh, and about specs ... the data sheets for RAM chips will state everything, down to the most minute detail. All RAM chips of the same model marking will match the specifications in that data sheet, otherwise the manufacturer is lying to you. Some will be better than the specifications, but ALL will run at the exact specs in the data sheet. If I buy a buy chip model XY from Samsung, and it comes on Apple RAM, that chip will have the exact same specifications as the same model XY on some generic-brand RAM.

Believing that the chips on Apple's RAM somehow have better specifications than if the same chips were bought on generic RAM is silly. There is no merit in that belief.

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by Detrius

Trust me... they didn't. There are no key combinations that can fix kernel panics.

And Apple Hardware Test isn't the best for testing RAM (it's WAY better than TechTool Pro, though). Check out Rember or memtest OS X. Run one of these for a while and see what they say.

i can not say i disagree.... but i also cant deny that i have gotten no panics since my visit with them... granted its only been 2 days... but TRUST ME should ANYTHING happen i will there faster than you can say "WTF?"

[mrgaskell]

Originally Posted by onlykaria

i can not say i disagree.... but i also cant deny that i have gotten no panics since my visit with them... granted its only been 2 days... but TRUST ME should ANYTHING happen i will there faster than you can say "WTF?"

I would still test out your RAM to be sure. I've had bad RAM and the only time I would get a KP is when I really pegged out all of the RAM. Turns out the bad segment was one of the last, so I only had problems when all 1.25GB were used. At least, that's the theory anyway.

[onlykaria]

ok!!!!

UPDATE!!!

got the system back it was working great for a while, but then the kernal panics come back with a vengeance, so as promised i was on the phone with apple support faster than you can say, WTF? i was thinking same as you that when it was sent in apple did nothing, as it were they replaced the motherboard, and while that fixed all the other problems i was having with the machine it did nothing to fix or end the panics.

at this point i need advice from you guys about what are some options i have...

right now the plan i have is a 1.40pm appointment with apple store mac genius. ask them to run all these tests and add everything they do to the case number, so that if it needs to be sent in the mail in repair people know what was done...
also ask them to replace the apple ram in there,
and get a better case in the off chance this is caused by my carry case not being smug enough, which it is not. what are some other options?

[jamil5454]

Did you run memtest?

Also, how could something like replacing a logic board slip under your nose and make you think they just ran AHT and reboot with a key combination?

And you've tried reinstalling OS X, right?

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Did you run memtest?

Also, how could something like replacing a logic board slip under your nose and make you think they just ran AHT and reboot with a key combination?

And you've tried reinstalling OS X, right?

ok this is the order of events
I took the mbp to the apple store for repair a few times and on one of those times they did a key combo that fixed the power management. however it did not fix the kernel panics after that I sent it in. they did a repair when I mailed it in, but did not tell me what exactaly the repair wAs until I called in and asked that's when I found out the replaced the logicboard, now that did fix all the other problems I was having but not the kernal panics