[deviousgelatin]

So, as I 've said in previous posts, I recieved my new PB 15" 1.25 ghz from MacMall on Monday, and it crashed repeatedly right out of the box. Spoke with MacMall yesterday and they told me it may be bad memory and that I should take out the 512mb they installed and see if it worked. I did so, and it worked - for about 1/2 an hour.

So I opend up the PB yet again, and checked the memory more cloesly, and this is the horror that I discovered:

MacMall had removed the apple branded FACTORY INSTALLED PC2700 DDR SDRAM, and replaced it with a generic PC2100 module - a module that is not even certified by apple for use on the PB15".

To reiterate, the bastards took out 512mb of PREMUIM ram (retail value $250 per the Apple store), and replaced it with the WRONG generic ram ($119 retail value @ MacMall).

When I confronted a manager at MacMall about this, he insited that the memory was certified by Apple and that they would not exchange it, leading emto spend another 30minutes of my life on phone with Apple Tech support to make sure of what I already knew - that the memory they installed was NOT APPLE CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MY COMPUTER.

Other than posting this horror story on every mac message board I can find, does anyone have any suggestions for the best way to deal with this? I'm getting ready to buy a rocket launcher and ticket to southern california to take care of matters myself. (kidding. mostly.)

[Tomster]

Did you pay for it with your credit card? If so, you can dispute the charge. Sounds like very weaselly behavior on their part.

[janmc]

That's definitely something you should bring up with apple, and not just by e-mail. I think you should post a well-reasoned and carefully written (not too angry!) letter to Apple complaining about MacMall's behaviour, cc it to the store that you bought it in, and cc it to MacMall's HQ and Managing Director. I would also e-mail the usual suspects as well, but letters are always that little bit more official.

That is very dodgy behaviour by MacMall. I'd say that they could get the Apple authorised reseller status stripped, or at least get a warning. On the plus side, you might get lots of free stuff!

[(",)PB12]

Originally posted by deviousgelatin:
So, as I 've said in previous posts, I recieved my new PB 15" 1.25 ghz from MacMall on Monday, and it crashed repeatedly right out of the box. Spoke with MacMall yesterday and they told me it may be bad memory and that I should take out the 512mb they installed and see if it worked. I did so, and it worked - for about 1/2 an hour.

So I opend up the PB yet again, and checked the memory more cloesly, and this is the horror that I discovered:

MacMall had removed the apple branded FACTORY INSTALLED PC2700 DDR SDRAM, and replaced it with a generic PC2100 module - a module that is not even certified by apple for use on the PB15".

To reiterate, the bastards took out 512mb of PREMUIM ram (retail value $250 per the Apple store), and replaced it with the WRONG generic ram ($119 retail value @ MacMall).

When I confronted a manager at MacMall about this, he insited that the memory was certified by Apple and that they would not exchange it, leading emto spend another 30minutes of my life on phone with Apple Tech support to make sure of what I already knew - that the memory they installed was NOT APPLE CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MY COMPUTER.

Other than posting this horror story on every mac message board I can find, does anyone have any suggestions for the best way to deal with this? I'm getting ready to buy a rocket launcher and ticket to southern california to take care of matters myself. (kidding. mostly.)

Sue the **** out of them. Must be Macmall's technicians behind it. They rip off the good ram and then sell it externally. ha ha

[The Placid Casual]

I would report them to Apple ASAP.

Very, very low behavior on MacMall's part.

[herbsman]

you need to borrow my deathray and vaporize the manager's limbs off. stories like this infuriates me

[CobraNT]

Call your credit card company, they will get the Macmall's attention quickly in the form of a chargeback.

[deviousgelatin]

Finally spoke to the one person at MacMall who seems to understand that it takes happy customers to make it in the retail business.

They're sending me out 2 512mb PC2700 premium (Kingston) RAM modules at no charge, refunding me the $39.00 ram installation charge, and giving me free "platinum" membership, which suppposedly entitles me to discounts and a corporate rate on products - not sure if even that would make me ever shop at MacMall again.

Still not entirely satisfied, and I'm holding off on my judgement until I actually receive the promised memory, install it, and make sure that it works.

But it's a start.

[Macbear]

Sounds like MacMall has done it again. It's the sort of poor customer service and outright deviousness that prompted one unfortunate customer to launch www.f**kmacmall.com (you need to type the naughty word when entering the URL)

I purchased from them once and was lucky, but I'll never buy anything from them again. Too many horror stories like this memory swapping debacle.

Here's hoping all will work out for you in the end.

[dcsmrgun]

[email protected], [email protected]

I hear you can get amazing results. And I'm not kidding either. Apparantly he's got staffers checking those accounts for stuff just like this.

[Orion27]

I'm curious, doesn't the fact you opened the powerbook void your warranty? I thought powerbook memory installs were only to be done by certified Apple techs in order to keep the warranty. Perhaps I'm just misinformed.
Keep us posted..

[EvanV]

Originally posted by dcsmrgun:
[email protected], [email protected]

I hear you can get amazing results. And I'm not kidding either. Apparantly he's got staffers checking those accounts for stuff just like this.

Yup, Executive Relations of Canada phoned me to settle a dispute when I had emailed a unsatisfied customer letter

[(",)PB12]

Originally posted by Orion27:
I'm curious, doesn't the fact you opened the powerbook void your warranty? I thought powerbook memory installs were only to be done by certified Apple techs in order to keep the warranty. Perhaps I'm just misinformed.
Keep us posted..

Nope, apple warranty will not void if you do memory installations yourself. Its stated in teh warranty booklet or some official document that comes along with your powerbook. I read it sometime back. Can't remember exactly which document. Well in any case if memory serves me right i'm pretty sure your warranty will not be void if you do your own ram installation. but that's provided you follow the exact procedure that's been taught in the booklet. If you try to disect your powerbook into half just to install ram then that's a whole different issue. ha ha hope this helps.

[stevenind]

On one of the other Macintosh sites, not sure which one but www.macintouch.com comes to mind, ran a series of postings a year ago about some consumer horror stories with respect to MacMall.

It was not pretty. Those articles definitely told me to stay away from this company until they change their approach. Obviously, it doesn't seem that they have.

This is so stupid as a business decision too. The Mac community is so interconnected. Of any consumer group, I definitely would want to please the Mac consumer because the word gets around.

[Macola]

Sorry to hear about your experience. It doesn't surprise me at all, though. I had a nightmare with MacMall back in early 2000 when they pulled a bait-and-switch on me. After getting no remedy through all the usual channels, I filed a complaint with the BBB, which was completely ineffective as well. I then convinced several companies that I knew to stop purchasing from MacMall, and although it didn't resolve my original problem, it certainly felt good. I only buy from MacConnection now, and have not had a single problem with them.

Vote with your wallet!

[DekuDekuplex]

Epinions.com (SM) has some horror reviews on MacMall.com.

I have read other reports about MacMall.com swiping out Apple's factory-installed RAM and replacing it with non-Apple-certified memory.

Such notoriety has convinced me not to be their customer. Instead, I buy from CDW�. Compare their reviews.

--DekuDekuplex

[Chemmy]

Originally posted by CobraNT:
Call your credit card company, they will get the Macmall's attention quickly in the form of a chargeback.

I've told this to you before in threads, so I'm going to be blunt:

Chargebacks are not the answer to everything. They go on your credit record, and your credit card company doesn't care.

[chrisutley]

Unacceptable. They can not replace a manufacturer's part like that in a new machine without telling you. That's bad news ... don't stand for it.

[danbrew]

Chargebacks absolutely do not appear on your credit report.

[schk]

Originally posted by danbrew:
Chargebacks absolutely do not appear on your credit report.

I think the more important point is that although you can file a complaint with your CC company and have a chargeback made, that does not mean there will be no repercussions. Just because something is not acceptable for you and you refuse to pay for it doesn't mean anything. If they keep claiming you owe them money, your credit can be ruined. Typically, if you do get a chargeback, it will light a fire under the ass of the company to fix a problem.

Like Chemmy said, chargebacks are not the answer for everything and I've known people who have gotten their credit ruined even for tiny amounts (you can probably even find some stories on the web, I think I saw something recently on MSN about it).

[Mallrat]

I'm tying on my trusty ibook 500 that I got from macmall...

Now that I think about it, I did get a free ram upgrade, but lucky for me, the ram on the ibook is built in.

Here's a suggestion. If you ever buy from a reseller, dont' get their free memory option.

Not only is it not really free (40 bucks to install) it's safer and cheapr to do it later.

It's easy to return a faulty computer if it's from the factory and I assume if you buy from them, they dont' open up all the macs and take out the ram.

I hate to hear stories like this, but I'm never sure.

Trust me, i've been there before, we all have. Most companies understand it though. They realize taht customers will percieve the whole company based on one experience.

so one jerk having a bad day can cost the business tons of money.

Some companies are better than others. But I've found jerks and nice guys all the time at stores.

I've found some real winners at compusa and some nice informed people.

But I try to separate it.

To me the worse industires are the fitness clubs and matress places that are always trying to sell, sell.

Computer places are a bit better, but still they realize that you need them.

They are a little nicer that the car salesman, but care just a little less that the gas station attendent.

I guess my point is, mac mall didn't do harm to me, but if they did, yes I would be upset.

But if I was looking for a computer I wouldn't read too much into praise or horror stories, because I'm sure even place ahs got them.

I've heard people have problems with apple directly.

It is case by case.

so i'm sorry for all your problems and it sounds like mac mall at least did something good to help the situation.

I'm just one of those that feels most of these companies are legit and trying to do their best. It's just a few bad apples messing things up. A dishonest tech is giving them a bad name.

I mean giving you free ram and not charging you seems like a fair deal to me.

good luck to you.

[Chemmy]

Originally posted by danbrew:
Chargebacks absolutely do not appear on your credit report.

That's true, but if a company claims you owe them that charged-back money, that can go on your credit report. Sorry for the ambiguity.

My point is that far too many people wave chargebacks around like some sort of trump card.

[sporadek]

Originally posted by deviousgelatin:
So, as I 've said in previous posts, I recieved my new PB 15" 1.25 ghz from MacMall on Monday, and it crashed repeatedly right out of the box. Spoke with MacMall yesterday and they told me it may be bad memory and that I should take out the 512mb they installed and see if it worked. I did so, and it worked - for about 1/2 an hour.

Consider yourself lucky. I ordered the identical model from MacMall on September 16th. I received it October 7th and had the same experience with it locking up every 2-3 hours. I removed the top 512 MB thinking the other was genuine Apple memory. I then spent about an hour a day on the phone with Apple Tech Support trying this and that, including reformatting and reinstalling OS X, until they finally overnighted me a box on the 15th to send it back to them for repair.

Since I was leaving the country on the 17th, anyway, I dropped the box off (Airborne Express is near the airport) on my way out and got the computer back on the 26th when I returned. Apple had taken the last memory card out and gave me a cheerful note about bad 3rd party RAM.

Still not realizing that the MacMall memory wasn't even the right memory for this model (I only discovered this after reading your post), I wasted the next day asking MacMall to send me some original Apple memory to test the machine with and then waiting for the Customer Support manager to call me back (he never did). Finally on the 29th I told MacMall to just send me new memory. They sent me PC2700 memory, which I installed earlier tonight, and it appears to work fine, now.

So, I finally have a working machine after more than SIX WEEKS of ownership, due to the fact that MacMall charged my credit card on September 16th, even though it didn't ship until October 3rd.

And there's still the matter of the huge gap between the lid and base on the right side when the lid is closed...

I am seriously considering disputing the charge on my credit card, due to the misrepresentation of the "extra 512 MB" of RAM. I've already talked to the bank and they agreed that this was fairly solid grounds for dispute.

However, I did verify their claim that the Apple memory MUST be replaced -- if you select this model on the Apple Store, you can elect to replace the two standard 256 MB memory cards with one 512 MB card for an extra $100. In order to upgrade from two 256 MB cards to 1 GB total memory, both 256 MB cards must go. Certainly MacMall does not make any mention of this anywhere to the purchaser, providing the grounds for dispute due to misrepresentation.

[CobraNT]

"Chargebacks are not the answer to everything. They go on your credit record, and your credit card company doesn't care"

I simply state what works for me. If you credit card company doesn't care then get a new card company. My card company always seems to get results. As for ruining your credit, you are mis-informed.
Chargebacks are a last resort and you must have solid grounds when using them. I have requested a chargeback twice, and both times the credit card company arranged a solution before having to actually chargeback any amount. You are the card companies customer, they can be your friend when you aren't getting a solution to issues with companies like this.

"due to the fact that MacMall charged my credit card on September 16th, even though it didn't ship until October 3rd."

FYI: That practice is illegal in most states with Mail Order.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by deviousgelatin:


When I confronted a manager at MacMall about this, he insited that the memory was certified by Apple and that they would not exchange it, leading emto spend another 30minutes of my life on phone with Apple Tech support to make sure of what I already knew - that the memory they installed was NOT APPLE CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MY COMPUTER.

This is why I completely ignore "free memory" offers, etc. I don't want anyone touching my new machine between me and the facory. Same goes for anything involving a $40 installation charge. I purchased my Airport card and base station (refurb) from SmallDog ($69/$269), and an additional 256MB from Crucial for $45. All is well. The 15" itself was purchased locally -- but next time I may BTO from Apple if I can be patient.

[dgbatchelor]

The sad situation is that this type of deceptive practise is too common... and for most consumers, they wouldn't have a clue to where the problem was or who caused it.

It's a very small minority which stands up and says, "Hey, there's a problem here!"

So, if there is a retailer who doesn't have integrity, a bunch of innocent consumers will be taken advantage of.

Truely sad.

[Orion27]

I'd like to see some more documentation and related stories about this kind of behavior. I would think Apple Computer would have something to say. Not only is MacMall accused of stealing Ram. They are damaging the reputation of Apple products. RAM in general I think creates 90% problems we see in current Macs, even from Apple. This totally sucks if true.

[sporadek]

Originally posted by Orion27:
I'd like to see some more documentation and related stories about this kind of behavior. I would think Apple Computer would have something to say. Not only is MacMall accused of stealing Ram. They are damaging the reputation of Apple products. RAM in general I think creates 90% problems we see in current Macs, even from Apple. This totally sucks if true.

I agree. I was pissed as hell that my brand new laptop was as useful as a dinner plate, and most of that was aimed at Apple. I thought after I removed one memory card that I was dealing with a non-functional, 100% original Apple machine.

Now I'm feeling a bit better toward Apple...but they still didn't fix my laptop's warped lid while they had it. And I specifically told them to fix it before I sent it in, too. Now I've taken it in to CompUSA, where they shipped it back to Apple to get the lid fixed.

And now I'll probably end up disputing the charge and returning the machine, unless MacMall really does something special to make up for all my trouble...

[forcelite]

This defiantly sux big time.

I just dont understand why someone would go to a third party to buy an apple product.

Maybe the rising cost of living in southern california is making Macmall take desperate measures to afford the necessities (porsche, pool, beach house)


One thing to remember is that it is not law that stores take back products or do returns. It just so happens that 99% of the stores do it so it has gotten to be an accepted norm.

But legally they have no obligations to take back a product unless it says so somewhere on their site.

The case above is much different. Although I dont know the legal aspect, I do know the moral one and its wrong.

[rilina]

I'm not a powerbook owner, but I've had the same exact problem with MacMall with my ibook.

I ordered my 12" iBook back on the 10/23. Got the free memory deal, which was my mistake. It shipped on 10/27, arrived 10/29. It crashed right out of the box and crashed about four more times before I even got through my setup wizard. It's now back with them--they can't seem to find it in their damn warehouse, and they won't give me a date for when I can expect it back.

Rilina

[deviousgelatin]

A follow-up:

They DID finally replace(after much screaming and yelling)the faulty, wrong, cheap memory they installed with some new Viking RAM, which has been working flawlessly.

HOWEVER....

Despite being given a return authorization number and speaking w/ "customer service" twice, they still haven't picked up the faulty RAM, thus preventing me from getting my promised refund.

Customer service this bad can only be willful.

[rilina]

Originally posted by deviousgelatin:
Customer service this bad can only be willful.

Yes, I definitely get that feeling as well. It's almost as if they think that making things difficult will simply discourage people from following up on their complaints. Unfortunately for them, this situation has brough out my stubborn inner b*tch.

Anyway, after they lost my computer for a day in their warehouse and a good chunk of my life dealing with their incompetent customer service reps, they say I will have my computer back today or tomorrow with their cheapo RAM replaced by a Viking or Kingston module. We'll see how things work after that.

I started a MacMall warning thread on the iBook forum and linked to this. No one else should have to deal with this garbage.

Rilina

[dgbatchelor]

While these types of forums help some of us vent our frustrations -- and MIGHT convince someone not to purchase items from MacMall -- I expect that the problem needs to be escalated. If anyone is interested in sending in a complaint to the FTC, here's the on-line complaint form...

<https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01>

If you do, please keep us all informed of your progress/results.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally posted by forcelite:
I just dont understand why someone would go to a third party to buy an apple product.

Because Apple charges sales tax.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by forcelite:

[comments deleted]

I just dont understand why someone would go to a third party to buy an apple product.

[comments deleted]

Actually, there are definite reasons to use a third party to buy an Apple product. For example, I purchased my 17-inch [Rev. A] G4 PowerBook at the beginning of April from CDW� online specifically to avoid about $300 in sales tax, because I live in New York, and they don't have a branch here.

Alternatively, I seriously considered purchasing from TekServe here instead of from the local Apple Store SoHo (even though both stores charge sales tax), because the TekServe staff seemed more focused on emphasizing the Mac community ethos over the "Sell, sell, sell!" attitude of some Apple Store SoHo employees (even though some other employees there were extremely friendly, attitudes varied markedly among different sales staff members).

At the time, I checked the online reviews for MacMall and CDW�, and chose the latter because of the horror stories about the former.

--DekuDekuplex

[cSurfr]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
Actually, there are definite reasons to use a third party to buy an Apple product. For example, I purchased my 17-inch [Rev. A] G4 PowerBook at the beginning of April from CDW� online specifically to avoid about $300 in sales tax, because I live in New York, and they don't have a branch here.

Alternatively, I seriously considered purchasing from TekServe here instead of from the local Apple Store SoHo (even though both stores charge sales tax), because the TekServe staff seemed more focused on emphasizing the Mac community ethos over the "Sell, sell, sell!" attitude of some Apple Store SoHo employees (even though some other employees there were extremely friendly, attitudes varied markedly among different sales staff members).

At the time, I checked the online reviews for MacMall and CDW�, and chose the latter because of the horror stories about the former.

--DekuDekuplex

If i recall correctly, that's called tax evasion. even if the company doesn't have an office in your state and they don't charge you sales tax, you are still required to file that. Not that I blame you, i'm just pointing it out

Isn't that what put capone in jail ?

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by cSurfr:
If i recall correctly, that's called tax evasion. even if the company doesn't have an office in your state and they don't charge you sales tax, you are still required to file that. Not that I blame you, i'm just pointing it out

Isn't that what put capone in jail ?

Not, to my knowledge, if the purchase was made just before the new law went into effect.

People who purchased alcohol just before Prohibition didn't go to jail, either.

--DekuDekuplex