[Dr.Michael]

hi lounge readers,

we have a problem with a 12 year old boy. For the past 3 months he is playing nonstop pc games (> 8 hours a day - dull soccer games). Yesterday we had an interview with his teachers and they all (!!) say, he is unconcentrated and starts to develop anti-social behaviour (they did not specify, but even his friends keep more and more distance).

This started in clear coincidence with the nonstop gaming. I first thought, he will be bored soon with the games (like me) and stop after some weeks, so we allowed him to play as long as he did his homework well.

I was wrong! He did not stop. He plays the same game since months, from early afternoon until late in the nights.

So we decided to disable his computer. To keep him more cooperative we don't want to forbid gaming and provoke offensiveness. But over the weekend the computer will break down and will need repair. Like with every addiction we think it is best to withdraw the addictive drug completely. At least as long as he goes back reading storys and inviting friends (like before) and his life gets back into a healthy balance.

My question: I don't want to destroy his machine. I just want to disable it (I am not administrator, so a hardware manipulation will be necessary). 12 year old kids are smart. I cannot remove memory, the battery or the power adapter fuse. He will find out quickly. I need something effective but subtle.

Any idea?

[Maflynn]

you let a 3 month old play nonstop games

I think you need to practice tough love and get rid of the computer or put it in your room where he can only use it for home work. Clearly the boy has a problem and you've enabled him long enough. If it were me, I'd throw the computer out its not worth his development.

I think your doing more harm letting him play the computer all day then if he had to endure "withdrawal symptoms" Your beyond the subtle stage. The longer you enable him and let him play games the harder it will be for you to correct this issue and those behavior issues you alluded to will get bigger and harder to fix.

[Spook E]

i think he means "for the past 3 months"

But i know what he means, Pro Evolution 5 has the same effect on me

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

you let a 3 month old play nonstop games

Sorry, my fault (I am not a native english speaker).
Spook E is right. He plays since January 2006. He got his first computer for christmas (age 12) and grandma bought him tons of games.

[Doofy]

Easiest way: Sledgehammer.

Slightly harder way: Disable the hard drives in BIOS. Since I don't have a Windows machine handy I can't tell you exactly how to do this, but someone else will know.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

Sorry, my fault (I am not a native english speaker).
Spook E is right. He plays since January 2006. He got his first computer for christmas (age 12) and grandma bought him tons of games.

No that's me reading macnn before my morning coffee

[jasonsRX7]

Is it running XP Pro or Home?

[TETENAL]

Why don't you just move the machine out of his room and tell him he's not allowed to use it any more? A 12 year old should listen to you without you needing to disable or lock away things.

[starman]

Put a password on the account. Done.

[Spliffdaddy]

unplug the power to the hard drive. or unplug its ribbon cable. Going into BIOS to disable the hard drive may not be effective nor simple.

You probably don't even need a screwdriver to open the case.

Another thought....if there's a switch on the power supply (where the cord plugs in) you can simply slide it to where it says "230V". That way you don't even need to open the case.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Another thought....if there's a switch on the power supply (where the cord plugs in) you can simply slide it to where it says "230V".

What's that going to help? It's the right voltage in Germany.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Is it running XP Pro or Home?

XP home.

I don't have an account on this machine and I don't know the admin password, so I cannot change the password.

Why we don't lock the machine?
If we do he will be mad at us. He will try any strategy to get access to the machine and we just don't want discussions. And he comes home hours before us. So we cannot control well.

If the machine breaks, we are in the more positive position to repair (sometime in the future) but only under conditions .

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

unplug the power to the hard drive. or unplug its ribbon cable. Going into BIOS to disable the hard drive may not be effective nor simple.

Another thought....if there's a switch on the power supply (where the cord plugs in) you can simply slide it to where it says "230V". That way you don't even need to open the case.

Originally Posted by OP

I cannot remove memory, the battery or the power adapter fuse. He will find out quickly. I need something effective but subtle

I assume that to mean that the little guy would notice a power/ribbon cable not being plugged into the drive.

I still say we (i.e. you, Spliffy) talk the guy through disabling in BIOS then pass protect it.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I assume that to mean that the little guy would notice a power/ribbon cable not being plugged into the drive.

Exactly, he is smart and he has time (much more than I).

BIOS? I haven't tinkered around with bios for a while. Doesn't it recognize drives automatically nowadays? And the machine prompts for the password, so it is obvious, that I have set it?

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

[H]e will be mad at us.

[W]e cannot control well.

If the machine breaks, we are in the more positive position to repair.

So you want to lie to your son? Don't. Move the computer out of his room and explain to him why you do that. If you can't do that you need to visit parents' counselling, not seek help on how to fake a broken computer.

[starman]

Ok, then try telling him that he just can't play games. That's what we tell our kids. Done.

[harrisjamieh]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

So you want to lie to your son? Don't. Move the computer out of his room and explain to him why you do that. If you can't do that you need to visit parents' counselling, not seek help on how to fake a broken computer.

I agree, just take it away and tell him why you did it, and tell him he needs to understand. My parents used to take things away from me if I didn't do as I was told -it's basically part of being a kid!

[meelk]

Be a parent.
Your attitude and post seem to detail the point that you want to do this without him knowing. That isnt parenting. Sit him down, tell him exactly what you told us in the post, and forbid him to be on the pc at certain times.
If he ignores these orders, remove his mouse and keyboard.

what kind of example are you setting by trying to be subversive in your enforcement of rules?


what kind of world do we live in where people need to post this kind of thing to a message forum?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

Exactly, he is smart and he has time (much more than I).

BIOS? I haven't tinkered around with bios for a while. Doesn't it recognize drives automatically nowadays? And the machine prompts for the password, so it is obvious, that I have set it?

I haven't tinkered with BIOS for quite a few years and consequently I'm well out of date with it - which is why I'm defaulting to letting Spliffy or someone else knowledgeable about PCs to walk you through it.
However, last time I looked there was a setting in the HD section which allows you to set the individual HD manually, automatically or completely turn it off - just a case of going to the drive in question and flipping through the settings IIRC.
Unless your son is actually trying to get into the BIOS, it shouldn't be at all obvious that you've set an admin password on it to protect your "disabled HD" settings.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

Why we don't lock the machine?
If we do he will be mad at us. He will try any strategy to get access to the machine and we just don't want discussions. And he comes home hours before us. So we cannot control well.
.

Who's in charge, you're afraid that he'll be mad at you? So let him be mad. You not trying to be his friend but his father. That means at times you take the very unpopular stances.

It would be better for you and him to say lock it down or take it away because he cannot control himself with games. If you break it , or make it look like it is broken is dishonest and kids are smart they will eventually figure out that your trying to pull a fast one. You'll be creating a bigger mess not to mentioned lose the trust of your child.

If he has a problem with playing on the computer all day, and exhibiting bad behavior as you have put it, then you need to do something, be upfront and honest and in a sense who cares if he's mad at you.

[qnxde]

He wants it to look accidental though. You could try turning down the screen brightness

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by meelk

what kind of world do we live in where people need to post this kind of thing to a message forum?

We live in a world where we can discuss these kind of problems easily and read opinions. There is always more than one way and the one you have in mind might not be the best.

But I understand that most of you prefer a transparent way.
More opinions?

[RAILhead]

Is this your kid? I mean, you're the parents?

Holy crap, man, get a grip. He's a farking 12 year old -- put your foot down and quit being such a Sally. If I pitched a fit at my Dad about something so stupid, he would have put me through the wall.

[meelk]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

We live in a world where we can discuss these kind of problems easily and read opinions. There is always more than one way and the one you have in mind might not be the best.

But I understand that most of you prefer a transparent way.
More opinions?

it doesnt take a village to raise a child, it takes a village to raise an idiot. If you parent your child based on group opinion, I'd say you're doing him a disservice.
If hes 12 already and your methods until now have consisted of subversive punishment, then hes going to be a teenager with real problems, as he will have no respect for you.
Time to stand up.

[Scotttheking]

Take the computer away.

[davesimondotcom]

Who cares if he gets mad at you? You are the parents. He is the child. He's 12. He doesn't run the joint.

Grow a pair and take control. Don't be your kid's best friend, be his best FATHER.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by meelk

it doesnt take a village to raise a child, it takes a village to raise an idiot. If you parent your child based on group opinion, I'd say you're doing him a disservice.
If hes 12 already and your methods until now have consisted of subversive punishment, then hes going to be a teenager with real problems, as he will have no respect for you.
Time to stand up.

Remember? Originally I did not ask for a discussion about how to raise a child.
We surely won't raise him on group opinions. In the end we decide.

Until now he was a smart kid and he was good at school (not to say one of the smartest kids in his class). So we did well. No problems at all.
The games are a new situation, maybe it is also the age and surely that we moved into another city. Until now we did not have authority problems. I am sure we will also find our way here.

But it is interesting to read other opinions. That does not mean anybody plans to follow them blindly.

[Doofy]

Guys, the guy didn't ask for your opinions on childcare. He asked you for your opinions on disabling a computer.

[Y3a]

remove the RAM in the computer.

Perhaps he should only be allowed to play games as a reward for doing stuff YOU want him to do?
2 hours a week - only on weekends. When he rebels, change it to 1 hour.

[cjrivera]

Hook it up to the internet and let Windows and it's vulnerability of to viruses do the work for you. Open all email, especially those with attachments. Download all the spyware you can so it slows down the computer so much that he can't play games.

But seriously, like many people before have mentioned, be a parent. You are in charge. It doesn't mean you can't treat him like a responsible child and have a meaningful dialogue about the use and overuse of the computer and how he should earn the privelege of playing games.

You mentioned that you didn't want any discussions with him about the overuse of the computer, that is the wrong attitude to take. By discussing it with him and agreeing on terms of how much gaming there should be, with consequences for breaking the agreement, you are more likely to get him to cooperate.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

Take the computer away.

Seconded.

Tell him what's going on, and lock the computer away. Done.

-t

[G Barnett]

Step 1: Move all games off of the internal hard drive and onto an external hard drive.

Step 2: Keep the external hard drive under lock & key (along with all game CDs) and set expectations for how long and when he can request the drive and one game of choice to play. Use the game playing as a reward for good behavoir/grade/etc. This way, he'll still have the computer for schoolwork and papers, but you get to control the game play in a very simple way.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Guys, the guy didn't ask for your opinions on childcare. He asked you for your opinions on disabling a computer.

Then he shouldn't have said WHY he needed the computer disabled. Sorry, but that's the way it is around here, you give too much info, people will see the bigger picture.

I have to agree - be a parent. Take the computer away. When he pays the bills, then he can start making decisions.

[Teronzhul]

You could always jam the cpu fan, make it look like it burnt up. This would cause the processor to overheat and reboot the computer anytime he attempted to do anything intensive on it. It could possibly permanently damage the cpu but, well, you wanted it broken.

[G Barnett]

Plus, the "bigger picture" view of things prevents folks like, say, myself from saying "toss a stick of butter into the case. That'll disable it, after a while."

[ghporter]

Inside the computer there's a plug -a big one- that attaches directly to the motherboard. This powers the motherboard and thus the CPU. It is typically latched in some way. Unplug this plug, and the computer WILL NOT operate at all.

A BIOS password worked very well for us when our son was young. It meant both that he HAD to ask permission to use the computer and that he couldn't sneak around our backs and use the computer when we weren't watching. This should be the second step, after the computer is "broken" for a few days. And a few days is what's called for here; break the chain of doing nothing but playing on the computer and let the child find something else to do. Later, you can "get the computer fixed" and apply a BIOS password so you can control daily use of the thing.

Right now the child is on a threshold. It's not that he's headed toward antisocial behavior nearly as much as asocial behavior, which can be just as bad. He needs interaction with other people and some exercise for his imagination that isn't programmed into a game.

[Dark Helmet]

Why are you so afraid of this child? Let him get mad at you, that is what 12 year olds are good at. Take away the computer and tell him he can get it back when his grades improve.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

(> 8 hours a day - dull soccer games)

Your son rules.

[Todd Madson]

Is this your child?

The way you are writing the message implies it is someone elses child and not your own.

You could always deinstall the games or move the PC out of his room until his grades
and attitude improve.

[euphras]

.................. This would cause the processor to overheat and reboot the computer anytime he attempted to do anything intensive on it. It could possibly permanently damage the cpu but, well, you wanted it broken.

Michael, i´m not sure what you would gain if the machine fails by "accident". The little bugger (sorry ) would certainly go mad about you, if the machine is not fixed within days.

same remaining problem....

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

Is this your child?

The way you are writing the message implies it is someone elses child and not your own.

You are right. It's the child of my girlfriend (she has 2 more, all very nice ). That makes a difference although we usually discuss what we do (if its complicated).

Euphras, this makes it easy for me not to repair if I don't want. He can go berserk, but it won't help him. He has already understood this well and he normally doesn't do that.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

You are right. It's the child of my girlfriend (she has 2 more, all very nice ). That makes a difference although we usually discuss what we do (if its complicated).

Well that changes everything, your not the parent then and you shouldn't be involved in the discipline - that's between mom and dad. I'm a step father myself and the hardest thing to do is sit by while my wife correct him. I provide my opinion to her in private but when she's disciplining him that's between him and her.

Back your question, if you did anything to the computer and he found out, that would create a difficult situation. your gf and his father need to handle this.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Your girl friend (and you if you stay together as a family) are doing a huge DISservice to this intelligent promising child if you allow them to think the world puts not limits on their behavior.

Intelligence will be useless to him if he develops neither respect nor discipline. He has learned, instead, to to become addicted (and not as we use the label on MacNN).

I realize that YOU cannot discipline another's child. But I hope your girlfriend grows up and takes on the responsibility to be a MOTHER to her child... not just a "buddy". A child (even a teen) needs a PARENT... even when they rebel and scream that they HATE their parent for being exactly that.

As I said: parenting is a hard road... and step-parenting a harder one (I know). But abdicating is a POSTPONED cruelty — handicapping the child from developing his true potential.

I second the motion that your GIRLFRIEND needs some counseling (or classwork) on how to single-parent (considering the bio-father may tend to undermine discipline) a bright teenager.

:more free, unwanted advice:

[hart]

anyone remember that video a few months ago with that boy swearing at his mom to get him chocolate milk and not mess up his game?

anyway, parent of three here, I agree with the others. Devious stuff is going to lead to way more trouble in the end. That's sitcom stuff, not real life.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

:more free, unwanted advice:

Good advice is always appreciated!

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

Your girl friend (and you if you stay together as a family) are doing a huge DISservice to this intelligent promising child if you allow them to think the world puts not limits on their behavior.

Yes, you are right.

We have already given him the chance to reduce the gaming by himself, but he obviously cannot control it (when I say "we", I mean of course that I am a consultant and my girlfriend has to be the authority). But I know that it is a huge task for him to control. The gaming industry does everything to make their products addictive and there are lots of adults who cannot handle this.

So I think we will use the bios password and explain why we did it and make up our minds, how much gaming we can allow. Due to the addictive character of these games I tend to think that he should not play for a longer time and maybe then get a time budget.

ghporter,
what are your experiences? A few days have really been sufficient in the case of your son?

Well, and my girlfriend surely does not need counselling. She has a magic way to make the kids understand without shouting or doing draconic things. It is just that we want to think first in order to find a way that works. There is no question that she is able to make him do what she wants. But we want a clear and effective strategie that enables us to be clear and straight and gives him a well understandable advice.

And, super mario,
no - he does not rule. We allowed him to play games because we thought an intelligent boy would be bored soon. Games are a new toy for him, and we all had to learn how it goes and how to handle it.

Thanks to all of you for the discussion,

Michael

[Dr.Michael]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Well that changes everything, your not the parent then and you shouldn't be involved in the discipline - that's between mom and dad. I'm a step father myself and the hardest thing to do is sit by while my wife correct him. I provide my opinion to her in private but when she's disciplining him that's between him and her.

Back your question, if you did anything to the computer and he found out, that would create a difficult situation. your gf and his father need to handle this.

Hm, you only discuss with your wife behind closed doors? Isn't this bad for your authority? The kids understand well who is the executive but they also understand, that your advice is important to their mother.

I think I am a respected person because the kids know that my opinion counts. And I am in the position to step back a bit and get a better perspective. If you live together with your family, you should also have direct influence although the kids are not yours. In the end it is also your place and your life.

I have my own flat and spend a lot of time there. This is the perfect setup for us.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

Hm, you only discuss with your wife behind closed doors? Isn't this bad for your authority? The kids understand well who is the executive but they also understand, that your advice is important to their mother.

Yes because I am not the parent, I do not want to question her discipline in front of Pat (her son) nor do I want to make suggestions as to what to do again because I'm not the parent. I take an arms length approach.

What's the difference if I discpline him such as grounding him for a week, or that I tell my wife in front of Patrick he should be grounded. In his eyes, I'm discplining. The last thing I want to do is get inbetween them its difficult but I stay out. For the most part my wife absolutly does not want me to start interjecting when she and Pat are having a "discussion" anyways so on that front we're on the same page.

As for my authority I really don't have any, at least in terms of being a parent. Patrick respects me and obeys me when I ask him to do something. I guess authority does not come from punishment. He knows that I'm not happy with some of his behavor but I defer.

Mike