[Krusty]

[looks into crystal ball]
Ten years from now we will have a generation of UK women unencumbered by out of wedlock children but with canker sores and bad breath
[/prediction]

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by sixz:
Oral sex is foreplay.

There's some truth in it.

[sixz]

Originally posted by Krusty:
[looks into crystal ball]
Ten years from now we will have a generation of UK women unencumbered by out of wedlock children but with canker sores and bad breath
[/prediction]

But very polished experts with a good
solid oral education be'blow them.

'Education breeds suc'k'cess'

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Not long at all if the Lib-Dems get in. They've already got plans to teach seven year olds sex education.

Vote Sherwie!

So what?

I had my first sex ed classes in third grade. So I was eight or nine, but my parents had answered all the questions regarding that already.

No `damage' was done to me or my brother nor my sister, on the contrary. I think we all enjoy our lives now, all aiming for stable relationships. You won't harm a child by telling them the truth about it from day one, of course just as much as they can (emotionally) understand. Et voil�.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
So what?

I had my first sex ed classes in third grade. So I was eight or nine, but my parents had answered all the questions regarding that already.

No `damage' was done to me or my brother nor my sister, on the contrary. I think we all enjoy our lives now, all aiming for stable relationships. You won't harm a child by telling them the truth about it from day one, of course just as much as they can (emotionally) understand. Et voil�.

The problem comes in the fact that kids are no longer allowed to have a childhood. Why worry the kids about adult stuff before their time? Plus there's the added feature that when you tell kids about something they'll want to try it out for themselves (you know, like them reading a review of Doom IV will have them nagging you constantly to buy them a copy).

I never had sex ed at school and you know what? No damage was done to me either. Why fix what wasn't broken? This seems to be the lib way: Fixing things that don't need fixing, just for the sake of it, and ignoring the things that do. It's stupid.

If they really wanna cut the teenage pregnancy rates, they'll provide something to do for the teenagers (aside from going to the pub, there ain't a whole lot of anything to do for anyone in my bit of the UK).

[wdlove]

I didn't have sex education either and I turned out just fine!

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
The problem comes in the fact that kids are no longer allowed to have a childhood. Why worry the kids about adult stuff before their time? Plus there's the added feature that when you tell kids about something they'll want to try it out for themselves (you know, like them reading a review of Doom IV will have them nagging you constantly to buy them a copy).

.....

If they really wanna cut the teenage pregnancy rates, they'll provide something to do for the teenagers (aside from going to the pub, there ain't a whole lot of anything to do for anyone in my bit of the UK).

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
The problem comes in the fact that kids are no longer allowed to have a childhood. Why worry the kids about adult stuff before their time? Plus there's the added feature that when you tell kids about something they'll want to try it out for themselves (you know, like them reading a review of Doom IV will have them nagging you constantly to buy them a copy).

I never had sex ed at school and you know what? No damage was done to me either. Why fix what wasn't broken? This seems to be the lib way: Fixing things that don't need fixing, just for the sake of it, and ignoring the things that do. It's stupid.

If they really wanna cut the teenage pregnancy rates, they'll provide something to do for the teenagers (aside from going to the pub, there ain't a whole lot of anything to do for anyone in my bit of the UK).

Well kids try it one way or the other. Ever heard of doctor's games?

It doesn't take away part of a child's childhood, an honest approach just ensures that they accept it as a part of life just as breathing, dying (of a relative for example), running, whatever. Children are (because they do not have sexual desire as adults do) also not that interested in trying or asking too many questions.

If you take a look at teen pregnancy rates, you'll also notice that it is quite low in Germany, compared to the UK and the US. And this is due to sex ed, plain and simple.

I don't think there is a substitute for sex, too. I can't imagine myself doing some governmentally supported stuff in favor of sex. It's an essential part of life and this is genetically implanted in your brain -- any attempt to substitute it is bound to fail.

[sixz]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
The problem comes in the fact that kids are no longer allowed to have a childhood. Why worry the kids about adult stuff before their time? Plus there's the added feature that when you tell kids about something they'll want to try it out for themselves (you know, like them reading a review of Doom IV will have them nagging you constantly to buy them a copy).

I never had sex ed at school and you know what? No damage was done to me either. Why fix what wasn't broken? This seems to be the lib way: Fixing things that don't need fixing, just for the sake of it, and ignoring the things that do. It's stupid.

If they really wanna cut the teenage pregnancy rates, they'll provide something to do for the teenagers (aside from going to the pub, there ain't a whole lot of anything to do for anyone in my bit of the UK).

It was so much better in my day ... blah,blah.

It was not so long ago before there was no such thing as childhood.
Kids got married at 13 - old enough to bleed... bleeding old enough
kind of mentality was the norm.
Childhood is a liberal invention and so is sex before marriage, because
not so long ago that was an evil sin.
You ever read 'Lord of flies'. - Children nicely playing with their toys
is an adult ideal, nothing more.

Knowledge of safe sex should be made available to all - old enough
to bleed, bleeding old enough to have sex education.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
I never had sex ed at school and you know what? No damage was done to me either. Why fix what wasn't broken? This seems to be the lib way: Fixing things that don't need fixing, just for the sake of it, and ignoring the things that do. It's stupid.

The problem with that is that too many children never talk about sex with their parents. Or rather, not so much just sex itself, kids can learn sex on their own easy enough, it's been done all through history.

What's more important to learn about is STDs, safe sex, what to avoid, the dangers, the downsides, etc. etc. etc. And if you can't talk to your parents about that and you have no sex ed, you're screwed.

It shouldn't even be an option for parents not to have "that talk" with their children, and I'll agree absolutely that not educating children at home is entirely the parents' fault. But I would rather we face the reality that most parents don't, and act on it accordingly, ie. by having sex ed in school.

It's a bit like fixing a whole in your boat with a piece of chewing gum - it doesn't work as it's supposed to, but it beats drowning by a long shot!

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
It doesn't take away part of a child's childhood, an honest approach just ensures that they accept it as a part of life just as breathing, dying

Yep, our government has bought this one up too - teaching kids about dying (specifically, what if a parent dies).

So, instead of only one kid having to face up to a parent dying, we're now going to have all the kids worrying about the possibility of their parents dying.

Low German teen pregnancy rates are, I guess, a result of a different culture, not sex ed classes. Do German kids actually get something to do at night? Do they spend hours honing their homework to perfection in preparation for their working life making the most reliable products known to mankind? Who can tell?

The pure and simple fact is: here in the UK teen pregnancies have gone up since sex ed classes were stepped up.
But... You say with more sex ed they should go down? The figures just don't add up - they don't prove your statement.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by sixz:
old enough to bleed, bleeding old enough to have sex education.

So you know many seven year olds who "bleed"?

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
What's more important to learn about is STDs, safe sex, what to avoid, the dangers, the downsides, etc. etc. etc. And if you can't talk to your parents about that and you have no sex ed, you're screwed.

It shouldn't even be an option for parents not to have "that talk" with their children, and I'll agree absolutely that not educating children at home is entirely the parents' fault. But I would rather we face the reality that most parents don't, and act on it accordingly, ie. by having sex ed in school.

We appear to be off in a different direction here. I'm not saying "no sex ed". I'm saying "proper sex ed at a proper age". That's not at age seven.
In case nobody noticed, it's illegal for seven year olds to have sex.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
There are, however, quite a lot of teenage girls who, although they are perfectly aware of blowjobs, think they're disgusting and refuse to do it. Some education in that area would be a good thing, I believe.

EH, if they don't want to do it, let them be. They don't need "Educated"

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
This is idiotic. A waste of time and money.

Teenagers know about oral sex. "Teaching" them about it will serve no purpose.

After oral sex, they'll have intercourse... at best. They might just go straight to intercourse. Either way, it WILL happen.

Oral sex is not an ALTERNATIVE, which is what they're presenting it as.

Stupid.

Exactly

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
It was so much better in my day ... blah,blah.

It was not so long ago before there was no such thing as childhood.
Kids got married at 13 - old enough to bleed... bleeding old enough
kind of mentality was the norm.
Childhood is a liberal invention and so is sex before marriage, because
not so long ago that was an evil sin.
You ever read 'Lord of flies'. - Children nicely playing with their toys
is an adult ideal, nothing more.

Knowledge of safe sex should be made available to all - old enough
to bleed, bleeding old enough to have sex education.

You know, you would get your point across better if you left out all the muddy waters.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
They don't need "Educated"

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
EH, if they don't want to do it, let them be. They don't need "Educated"

Don't get me wrong, if they really don't think oral sex is for them, then fine, they shouldn't do it.

But a lot of younger teenage girls (and by "younger", I mean old enough to be having sex, but still young enough to see Britney Spears as a role model) just say oral sex is disgusting and eww without knowing properly what it is. Kind of the same way boys in second grade run around screaming, "Ewww, I've got girlie bugs all over me" if they accidentally come within five feet of a girl (except for the underlying reason of really liking it). That's what can be educated away.

I've known plenty of girls who would swear that oral sex was the grossest thing they'd ever heard of and they'd never let anyone's dick anywhere near their mouth, when they were 14. And then, at 18, they suddenly think that oral sex is no big deal and quite okay.

If the goal is to reduce teen pregnancies, then I can't see how it would hurt to help them reach this more educated conclusion a few years earlier...

[Webscreamer]

Originally posted by Turias:
Sure, it might help curb pregnancy rates, but it is bound to increase the number of kids with STDs.

Bad idea.

Exactly my thought.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
Don't get me wrong, if they really don't think oral sex is for them, then fine, they shouldn't do it.

But a lot of younger teenage girls (and by "younger", I mean old enough to be having sex, but still young enough to see Britney Spears as a role model) just say oral sex is disgusting and eww without knowing properly what it is. Kind of the same way boys in second grade run around screaming, "Ewww, I've got girlie bugs all over me" if they accidentally come within five feet of a girl (except for the underlying reason of really liking it). That's what can be educated away.

I've known plenty of girls who would swear that oral sex was the grossest thing they'd ever heard of and they'd never let anyone's dick anywhere near their mouth, when they were 14. And then, at 18, they suddenly think that oral sex is no big deal and quite okay.

Or how about we just let them naturally decide on their own?

If the goal is to reduce teen pregnancies, then I can't see how it would hurt to help them reach this more educated conclusion a few years earlier...

And as we have shown, that goal is silly. It wont reduce teen pregnancies.

Promoting abstinence can however. While this wont STOP kids from having sex. It will make a lot THINK about it.

I blame society's glorification of teenage sex. You see it on TV every day.

"You are a teen, it's ok to have sex!"

You shouldn't be having sex until you are responsible enough to take care of any offspring sex creates.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Yep, our government has bought this one up too - teaching kids about dying (specifically, what if a parent dies).

So, instead of only one kid having to face up to a parent dying, we're now going to have all the kids worrying about the possibility of their parents dying.

Low German teen pregnancy rates are, I guess, a result of a different culture, not sex ed classes. Do German kids actually get something to do at night? Do they spend hours honing their homework to perfection in preparation for their working life making the most reliable products known to mankind? Who can tell?

The pure and simple fact is: here in the UK teen pregnancies have gone up since sex ed classes were stepped up.
But... You say with more sex ed they should go down? The figures just don't add up - they don't prove your statement.

German teenagers for sure aren't just sitting at home, thinking about `Nothing beats German engineering all night.' To imply, we don't have party and sex lives is a bit, hmmm, how shall I say, not nice.

I also wasn't restricting myself to sex ed at school. Your argument above `I have had no sex ed and I turned out alright.' sounds like a hateful argument of my (mother's side's) grandparents `We have no education, too, and we are decent people.' This is deceit and not an argument.

Bringing different cultures into play nevertheless is an interesting point. All of my (male) friends use condoms which is the only useful way for at least 90 % to lower the risk of pregnancy and STDs. In Japan, condoms are not used as frequently, (and for Europeans, they are too small, so if you are in Japan, you should bring some ), I don't have statistics about the UK (and as it is 2.38 in the morning, with class at 8.45, I don't feel like digging up some numbers right now), but I do know that teen pregnancy rates are higher than in the rest of Europe.

To come back to the original question: I'm against preaching oral sex as an alternative, teaching the kids not at all about it, worsens the situation, because the teenagers don't know about the effectiveness of different contraceptives with their `success rates', individual pros and cons. I've seen it myself, otherwise very smart people with `stupid' questions.

[OptimusG4]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Or how about we just let them naturally decide on their own?


And as we have shown, that goal is silly. It wont reduce teen pregnancies.

Promoting abstinence can however. While this wont STOP kids from having sex. It will make a lot THINK about it.

I blame society's glorification of teenage sex. You see it on TV every day.

"You are a teen, it's ok to have sex!"

You shouldn't be having sex until you are responsible enough to take care of any offspring sex creates. [/B]

Like this morning...a teenage girl advertising that there is someplace to get contraceptives for free and/or the morning after pill in case they have unprotected sex...thats just great, give them a reason to go out and f*ck.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
We appear to be off in a different direction here. I'm not saying "no sex ed". I'm saying "proper sex ed at a proper age". That's not at age seven.
In case nobody noticed, it's illegal for seven year olds to have sex.

Who said that 7-year olds are actually interested in having sex?
They can nevertheless be interested in how human life is created and what happens before birth.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
Like this morning...a teenage girl advertising that there is someplace to get contraceptives for free and/or the morning after pill in case they have unprotected sex...thats just great, give them a reason to go out and f*ck.

Yeah the morning after pill.. what a wonderful invention.

"Have all the unprotected sex you want! If you are pregnant, you can just kill the baby in the morning"

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
And as we have shown, that goal is silly. It wont reduce teen pregnancies.

That remains to be seen. It hasn't been put into effect yet.

Promoting abstinence can however. While this wont STOP kids from having sex. It will make a lot THINK about it.

I blame society's glorification of teenage sex. You see it on TV every day.

"You are a teen, it's ok to have sex!"

You shouldn't be having sex until you are responsible enough to take care of any offspring sex creates.

I don't know if I agree completely with the last sentence anymore - many people are never responsible enough to take care of any offspring... but besides that, I agree that you shouldn't have sex till you're mature enough.

And - again, I can only speak from personal experience - teenage sex hasn't been glorified to me. Both parents and teachers have always told me (and people I know) that it was ultimately our decision whether or not to have sex, but they would advice us to wait until we were adults. I personally think promoting abstinence can very easily have the opposite effect of the one desired: that teens will have more sex! Depends on how it's done of course (the promoting, not the sex).

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
That remains to be seen. It hasn't been put into effect yet.

It's called common sense. Do you think teenage girls that blow their boyfriends will say NO to any other type of sex? Come on..

I don't know if I agree completely with the last sentence anymore - many people are never responsible enough to take care of any offspring... but besides that, I agree that you shouldn't have sex till you're mature enough.

I can agree there. But when you are in your teens, it's def not the time.

And - again, I can only speak from personal experience - teenage sex hasn't been glorified to me. Both parents and teachers have always told me (and people I know) that it was ultimately our decision whether or not to have sex, but they would advice us to wait until we were adults. I personally think promoting abstinence can very easily have the opposite effect of the one desired: that teens will have more sex! Depends on how it's done of course (the promoting, not the sex).

You know, they taught such a thing when I was in Jr High. We had ONE girl. ONE, that was pregnant my three years of being there. And that was a SHOCK.

Go ask some Jr High kid how many girls he knows that are or have been pregnant.

[OptimusG4]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It's called common sense. Do you think teenage girls that blow their boyfriends will say NO to any other type of sex? Come on..

I agree. Most times that a girl does that is because its that time of the month....if they can't go all the way, at least they can please their b/f at the time. Sad.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You know, they taught such a thing when I was in Jr High. We had ONE girl. ONE, that was pregnant my three years of being there. And that was a SHOCK.

Go ask some Jr High kid how many girls he knows that are or have been pregnant.

As far as I know, during the three years I was in high school, there wasn't a single girl who got pregnant, apart from a senior the year before me, but she was getting married to her boyfriend anyway, and they both wanted the baby (ie. they were actually trying to get her pregnant).

[I'm not 100% sure about how old you are in high school in the US, but for us, it's normally from 15-20, for me it was 15-18]

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yeah the morning after pill.. what a wonderful invention.

"Have all the unprotected sex you want! If you are pregnant, you can just kill the baby in the morning"

Yes, sounds like you lack the maturity yet.
The pill for the day after is not used for `let's have sex without condoms', but usually used for accidents (when the condom slips out or tears). The hormon levels are higher than in the `every day pill'. So if (girls) want to have sex without condoms, they take the ordinary pill and not the emergency pill.

You live in a strange reality distortion field.

[OptimusG4]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
As far as I know, during the three years I was in high school, there wasn't a single girl who got pregnant, apart from a senior the year before me, but she was getting married to her boyfriend anyway, and they both wanted the baby (ie. they were actually trying to get her pregnant).

[I'm not 100% sure about how old you are in high school in the US, but for us, it's normally from 15-20, for me it was 15-18]

Actually he mentioned jr high. And I can argue for him as well cause we had 3 when I was in jr high that were pregnant..and I'm only 23.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
I agree. Most times that a girl does that is because its that time of the month....if they can't go all the way, at least they can please their b/f at the time. Sad.

Sex during menstruation works just fine.
(Another myth that should be covered in sex ed.)

[OptimusG4]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Sex during menstruation works just fine.
(Another myth that should be covered in sex ed.)

True enough but how many girls in HS would actually do that? I don't know any and I'm not saying there aren't but I couldn't see a school aged girl having sex then.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
Actually he mentioned jr high. And I can argue for him as well cause we had 3 when I was in jr high that were pregnant..and I'm only 23.

Well, junior high then... I take it that's younger than 15-18?

(Oh, and I'm only 21, so I'm not talking about Victorian times)

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Yes, sounds like you lack the maturity yet.

Yeah I am soooo immature for believing in personal responsibilities for your actions.

The pill for the day after is not used for `let's have sex without condoms', but usually used for accidents (when the condom slips out or tears).

No, that isn't what it's usually used for. It's used as a method of birth control. Just like abortion is. Most of the abortion cases don't arise from condom problems.

The hormon levels are higher than in the `every day pill'. So if (girls) want to have sex without condoms, they take the ordinary pill and not the emergency pill.

Really? I know a gal that has taken 4 in the past month and a half. Know how many times she has had sex? 4 times. With 4 different guys. Her mom says she "just don't know what to do about it"

Her mom usually has a new guy in her house weekly. And wonders why her daughter acts the way she does.

You live in a strange reality distortion field.

No, I just live on the other side. The one that has the common sense.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
Actually he mentioned jr high. And I can argue for him as well cause we had 3 when I was in jr high that were pregnant..and I'm only 23.

I am 31, we didn't have any.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Sex during menstruation works just fine.
(Another myth that should be covered in sex ed.)

Your speaking about tubal pregnancies right?

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
True enough but how many girls in HS would actually do that? I don't know any and I'm not saying there aren't but I couldn't see a school aged girl having sex then.

It was never a problem as far as my friends and me are concerned. If you could imagine them having sex during their period or not, you can be pretty sure that it happens. If a girl hesitates, then -- like with all `more advanced' sexual things -- it's the lack of experience and/or the lack of education.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Your speaking about tubal pregnancies right?

No.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
It was never a problem as far as my friends and me are concerned. If you could imagine them having sex during their period or not, you can be pretty sure that it happens. If a girl hesitates, then -- like with all `more advanced' sexual things -- it's the lack of experience and/or the lack of education.

You do know about tubal pregnancies right?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Webscreamer:
Sounds like they need lessons on how to put their right(or left) hands to use.... a do-it-yourself job.

Yeah, didn't Whitney Houston say it best, "Learning to love yourself, is the greatest love of all." Well maybe not the greatest, but sometimes it's the most frequent.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You do know about tubal pregnancies right?

Yes, my mom has had one while trying to become pregnant. Almost cost her ability to get kids. But that wasn't at all what I was talking about.

[Shaddim]

Just a thought, but why don't we require that all girls starting HS must get on the "pill"? That combined with COMPLETE sex education starting in 6th grade should make a difference.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Yeah I am soooo immature for believing in personal responsibilities for your actions.
[/b]
No, that isn't what it's usually used for. It's used as a method of birth control. Just like abortion is. Most of the abortion cases don't arise from condom problems.
[/b]
Really? I know a gal that has taken 4 in the past month and a half. Know how many times she has had sex? 4 times. With 4 different guys. Her mom says she "just don't know what to do about it"

Her mom usually has a new guy in her house weekly. And wonders why her daughter acts the way she does.

No, I just live on the other side. The one that has the common sense. [/B]

Most of the abortions arise from not using condoms at all or using them in the wrong way (I'm not talking about accidents such as rupture, but misapplication). Maybe in your social environment you only see people that use them as `birth control', but at least I haven't heard of that since girls can get the regular pill in Germany, if they want (and if there aren't any medical reasons against the use of the pill). Sometimes girls forget to take their daily pill and resort to the pill on the day after (if they have had sexual intercourse).

I'm not sure where your misperception stems from, but you should go and experience some real life.

Being an adult just doesn't stop at being responsible for your actions, but it also requires you to be in touch and accept risks and choices for benefits. When you drive a car, you are always potentially endangering yourself and others. If you are too young (as far as maturity and experience is concerned), you are posing a greater risk to your surroundings in a car (as well as to yourself). But because of the benefits of mobility, you use a car.

So if you are not avoiding responsibility (here: by not having sex at all), you certainly do not take on the responsibility, you are avoiding it.

[andi*pandi]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

No, that isn't what it's usually used for. It's used as a method of birth control. Just like abortion is. Most of the abortion cases don't arise from condom problems.

...I know a gal that has taken 4 in the past month and a half. Know how many times she has had sex? 4 times. With 4 different guys. Her mom says she "just don't know what to do about it"

Foul! 10 points and the penalty box with you, mister. Is this girl you know related to the kinky granny you also knew? Fiction, I say. If she were real, her prescribing dr would have given her the Pill as well, and instructions on how to use it.

[Shaddim]

AND at the same time they can actually teach guys what a clitoris is and WHERE it is.

Teacher: "Class, is there a fella in here who can tell me what a citoris is?"

Lil' Johnny: "Isn't that another name for a Unicorn?"

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Just a thought, but why don't we require that all girls starting HS must get on the "pill"? That combined with COMPLETE sex education starting in 6th grade should make a difference.

Some women cannot take the pill. My ex gf for instance had some genetic predepositions so that she decided against taking it (low blood pressure, ..., her cousin almost died when she was 19).

Women should decide for themselves, if they want to use the pill (i. e. a perturbation in their hormon balance) or not. It's their body.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Some women cannot take the pill. My ex gf for instance had some genetic predepositions so that she decided against taking it (low blood pressure, ..., her cousin almost died when she was 19).

Women should decide for themselves, if they want to use the pill (i. e. a perturbation in their hormon balance) or not. It's their body.

Sure, 1 in 100 maybe. Still doesn't make make it a bad idea. Tests can easily detect those types and the doctor can work with alternative methods.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Sure, 1 in 100 maybe. Still doesn't make make it a bad idea. Tests can easily detect those types and the doctor can work with alternatives.

No, it's still an intrusion if you have to take it against your will. I don't think any constitution of a modern democratic state would allow for that.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Some women cannot take the pill. My ex gf for instance had some genetic predepositions so that she decided against taking it (low blood pressure, ..., her cousin almost died when she was 19).

Women should decide for themselves, if they want to use the pill (i. e. a perturbation in their hormon balance) or not. It's their body.

"It's their body"? When they learn how to treat it better and be more responsible, they can have it back. Besides, they're minors, once they reach 18 they can decide whether to get off the pill or not.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
No, it's still an intrusion if you have to take it against your will. I don't think any constitution of a modern democratic state would allow for that.

then that needs to be addressed and revised.