[Elektrix]

Hi all,

I am hoping someone knows a lot more about this than I do. I recently sold my laptop, and I sold it for cash, in hundreds (8 hundred dollar bills).

I haven't tried to spend them or cash them in yet, but I'm a little suspicious. I have been trying to read about counterfeiting in 100 dollar bills, and I'm not sure at this point if what I have is counterfeit or not.

My main suspicion is that a few of the hundreds had a handful of tiny holes in them (maybe 5 or six holes spread around the bill). Also, when holding a few of the bills up to the light, the watermark of Ben Franklin on a couple of them looks off (i.e. in one his left eye seems thicker than the others, in another the portrait just doesn't look quite identical to the others, etc.). Also, when holding them up to the light, a couple of them seem to have some sort of little purple symbols in the paper (some look like just little squiggles, or writing, etc.).

These things make me suspicious, but other parts of the bills appear to be authentic. They all have the USA 100 security strip in them, and they all seem to have the color shifting ink (in the "100" on the lower right-hand of the front of the bill), which as I understand it are normally supposed to indicate authenticity.

So, does anyone know much about counterfeit hundreds? Is it possible that the watermarked portrait of Franklin might just look a little different on some bills, or should it be absolutely identical? Do the holes I saw in some bills mean anything? Would it be unusual to have little symbols in some of the paper in the bills (that you can only see when holding it up to the light)? The symbols puzzle me especially, since I can't imagine why a counterfeiter would introduce purple symbols into it.

I guess the only thing I can do for sure is to take it to the bank (and it would suck if it turned out a bunch of these bills were counterfeit).

-Elektrix

[Buckaroo]

Well, you can take it down to your local bank, and they'll let you know. If they are conterfeit, I think they'll confiscate them and refer you to the Secret Service. I think that their should be some official web sites that will help you with this question.

[Elektrix]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Well, you can take it down to your local bank, and they'll let you know. If they are conterfeit, I think they'll confiscate them and refer you to the Secret Service. I think that their should be some official web sites that will help you with this question.

Thanks. Yeah, I was looking at the Secret Service website and reading the info they had on how to spot counterfeit money. Pretty much everything appears to be legit (looks like it is real paper, not with the threads printed on, the color-shifting ink, etc.) - the only thing that makes me suspicious is that the watermarked portrait of Ben Franklin doesn't look identical on all of them - but I'm not sure if that is just natural, or what.

I will go ahead and take it to the bank. At least this isn't a huge amount of money if they do turn out to be counterfeit (I think I'm going to have a hard time getting my laptop back).

[ghporter]

The watermarks are done through a separate, non-printing process. They SHOULD be identical.

Bank the bills right away-and keep the buyer's contact info handy in case your instincts turn out to be correct. But I doubt it.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The watermarks are done through a separate, non-printing process. They SHOULD be identical.

Bank the bills right away-and keep the buyer's contact info handy in case your instincts turn out to be correct. But I doubt it.

The watermarks should be similar, but I don't believe they will be in the exact same spot on every bill.

[Big Mac]

On a related subject, I saw a documentary that stated North Korea manages an on-going government funded piracy ring that creates $100 counterfeit bills so sophisticated that it takes the currency experts at the regional Fed banks to be able to differentiate them from real bills. The US is or perhaps was attempting to have the operation shut down through diplomatic channels.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Elektrix

Hi all,

Also, when holding them up to the light, a couple of them seem to have some sort of little purple symbols in the paper (some look like just little squiggles, or writing, etc.).
-Elektrix

Those are most likely the colored fibers that the Treasury adds to the paper to help thwart counterfeiting.

[Elektrix]

K, thanks all. I went out to staples and bought a counterfeit detection pen, as well as some other counterfeit thing that you use to see if the ink is fake (i.e. since the counterfeit detection pen apparently mainly detects if the paper is real or not).

As far as I can tell, it seems like they are legit, at least according to these two tests. The pen says that clear or yellow means it is legit, and brown or grey means it is counterfeit, and all of them seemed to be yellow. And the other thing to detect the ink seemed fine too (the ink didn't smudge, and the color of the applicator didn't change,which is supposed to indicate counterfeit).

So, it sounds like they are ok. I guess maybe the Ben Franklin portrait watermark might just vary a bit from bill to bill naturally.

I think I'll still take them to the bank just to verify though.

[Elektrix]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

The watermarks should be similar, but I don't believe they will be in the exact same spot on every bill.

Yeah, that's the thing that still seems weird to me. I'm not so concerned about slightly different locations, but on at least one of these bills, the portrait definitely looks a little different (just some of the angles and lines look a bit off).

But it did seem to pass the counterfit tests I ran on it, so who knows. I think I will take them to the bank tomorrow to verify for sure.

-Elektrix

[phantomdragonz]

I work as a cashier/manager and handle many 100's a day... if the security strip says "100" and the watermark matches the face on the bill there is a 99.9% chance the bill is legit, those two things are nearly impossible to fake... the only fake $100 I saw was a washed $5, the watermark and the strip was for a $5 but the bill looked like a $100, I have seen a fake $20 too, that one was on nice printer paper, the color shifting ink was not there, and the colors were off...

the bills you have are legit, stop being paranoid and use them/bank them!

Zach

[PER3]

The only problem with the North Korean notes is that they seem to be of higher quality than the originals:

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/25/...-for-a-dollar/

Use bugmenot.com for access to the link.

[MacMan4000]

............

[Cipher13]

Don't take them to the bank.

Go buy stuff, and split them into other denominations.

If you were to hand them in and they were counterfeit, they'd be confiscated and you'd be out $800. I'm not sure if there's a reclaimation process or any sort of cash insurance, but I doubt it.

Sure, that may seem morally irresponsible, but whatever - if I was in doubt I'd make sure to change it into real cash. Maybe keep one to hand in.

If there was a program to trade counterfeited money for real money, then by all means, I'd hand them in - but that'd be music to counterfeiters ears.

$800 is a bit too much to risk throwing away.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Cipher13

$800 is a bit too much to risk throwing away.

Is $800 worth having a criminal record?

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Sure, that may seem morally irresponsible

Ummm, no, that IS morally and legally irresponsible...

Elektrix, if the police can prove that you knowingly used counterfeit bills, you could be in trouble. It is WRONG to give potentially fake bills away... period.

If you use them, you are no better than a criminal... look at it this way, if they are fake... someone stole your laptop (and I would go after them that way with the help of the secret service). If they are real, you can go and cash them.

Why not be the good citizen and get them checked out.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Is $800 worth having a criminal record?

Elektrix, if the police can prove that you knowingly used counterfeit bills, you could be in trouble. It is WRONG to give potentially fake bills away... period.

If you use them, you are no better than a criminal... look at it this way, if they are fake... someone stole your laptop (and I would go after them that way with the help of the secret service). If they are real, you can go and cash them.

Why not be the good citizen and get them checked out.

Criminal record? I think not.

Plausible deniability.

Nice and righteous there, though; as if you're "no better than a criminal". Sorry, but some of us can't afford to throw away $800 like it's spare change.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Ummm, no, that IS morally and legally irresponsible...

It's not my job to police counterfeiting operations, especially at my own cost.

If there was a way to ensure you received legitimate money back in return for the counterfeit bills, sure thing.

[Elektrix]

Yeah, look, I'll just take my chances. I will take them to the bank; if they're counterfeit, I'll treat it as an $800 lesson when I do any future transactions. I'm hoping they aren't though, but I'll just take my lumps and hope for the best.

Either way, I wouldn't be comfortable with just spending them and making the counterfeit bills someone else's problem, if they are counterfeit. Then someone else would just end up with the same problem I have.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Criminal record? I think not.

Plausible deniability.

Nice and righteous there, though; as if you're "no better than a criminal". Sorry, but some of us can't afford to throw away $800 like it's spare change.

Righteous? How about "doing the right thing."

Possession of counterfeit United States obligations with fraudulent intent is a violation of Title 18, Section 472 of the United States Code and is punishable by a fine of up to $15,000, or 15 years imprisonment, or both.

You don't have to MAKE fake bills to break the law... you just have to use them. And yes, you are no better than a criminal for trying to pass off illegal bills to someone else. I'm not trying to preach from a soap box, just trying to give good advice that wont come back to haunt you months down the road.

Also, they may not be fakes at all!

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Righteous? How about "doing the right thing."

Possession of counterfeit United States obligations with fraudulent intent is a violation of Title 18, Section 472 of the United States Code and is punishable by a fine of up to $15,000, or 15 years imprisonment, or both.

You don't have to MAKE fake bills to break the law... you just have to use them. And yes, you are no better than a criminal for trying to pass off illegal bills to someone else. I'm not trying to preach from a soap box, just trying to give good advice that wont come back to haunt you months down the road.

Also, they may not be fakes at all!

That's nice. If I'm unaware of whether or not they're counterfeit, however, good luck bringing a case against me for their use.

You are preaching from a soap box, and you are being righteous. Listen to yourself. I'm sorry, but $800 is a bloody lot of money. If I could bring counterfeit bills to the attention of the authorities without having to worry about loosing the entire sum of money, then I'd absolutely do it.

Until there's an incentive though (well, I should say, a lack of such a huge dis-incentive - I don't want an incentive for it), it won't happen.

[tutelary]

Look at all these idiots talking about the money like its counterfeit. Its obviously not. You wont find watermarks, security strips, embedded fibers etc ALL in counterfeit hundreds.

If money passes the crumple test, its fine. That is when you crumple it over and over and it does not tear at the edges. Counterfeit hundreds will not pass rigorous crumpling.

You've already done a pen, so everything else is meaningless. You have real money. I wish these fools would get off their moral soap boxes and stfu now.

[Eriamjh]

Please send the $100 bills to me for evaluation. If they are counterfeit, I will turn them in.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Cipher13

That's nice. If I'm unaware of whether or not they're counterfeit, however, good luck bringing a case against me for their use.

You are preaching from a soap box, and you are being righteous. Listen to yourself. I'm sorry, but $800 is a bloody lot of money. If I could bring counterfeit bills to the attention of the authorities without having to worry about loosing the entire sum of money, then I'd absolutely do it.

Until there's an incentive though (well, I should say, a lack of such a huge dis-incentive - I don't want an incentive for it), it won't happen.

My logic:
1) If they are illegal bills, Elektrix should get the laptop back (with the assistance of the SS)
2) If they aren't illegal, Elektrix can deposit the bills and never look back knowing the honest thing was done.

I'm only suggesting doing the right thing. Passing bad bills via eBay sounds like a nice scam... and I wouldn't want to perpetuate it by being the mule for a real criminal. NOBODY wants to be out $800... but your "It's not my problem" attitude is what permits people to get away with such things.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by tutelary

Look at all these idiots talking about the money like its counterfeit. Its obviously not. You wont find watermarks, security strips, embedded fibers etc ALL in counterfeit hundreds.

If money passes the crumple test, its fine. That is when you crumple it over and over and it does not tear at the edges. Counterfeit hundreds will not pass rigorous crumpling.

You've already done a pen, so everything else is meaningless. You have real money. I wish these fools would get off their moral soap boxes and stfu now.

You did read this didn't you?

Originally Posted by PER3

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/07/25/...-for-a-dollar/

Anyway, they probably are real... but what's the problem with taking them to the bank and saying "these bills I received look strange" If they accept them, then I wouldn't feel bad.

I'm not suggesting making a big deal out of it... my suggestion is to CYA.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

You did read this didn't you?

Thats a Goverment doing it, not joe average criminal. Get a clue. Have you ever held counterfeit money? I used to work retail, I have.

[The Jesus]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Is $800 worth having a criminal record?

You won't get a criminal record for spending money that you don't know is counterfeit. If someoen gets scammed and has counterfeit money THEY THINK IS REAL, and tries to spend it, there is nothing illegal about that. Christ.... use your brain.

[Gossamer]

Cipher's here

[The Jesus]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Cipher's here

Yeah I noticed that too. Hola Cipher. Long time no see. You're never on here or AIM anymore. Must be to busy with the broads. The asian ones anyway.

[Elektrix]

Well, I went to the bank and deposited all of the cash, and they didn't give me any trouble (then again, they didn't seem to do anything specific to test them), so I think I'm in good shape.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Now I can have a clear conscience and know my money is legit to spend on whatever comes out of WWDC...

[Moderator]

Paranoia was my guess.