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aehaas · Jul 8, 2003, 01:47 PM

Who has got 6.0 yet. They say it has been released. The Quark boards are down. What say you? They told me I would get the upgrade from 5 to 6 by now but no show as yet.

aehaas

MojoRising022 · Jul 8, 2003, 01:52 PM

I think they took the boards down when the majority of posts took a negative tone.

I am still waiting on my order. It just ate me alive to have to give more money to them and now I am waiting and waiting for a product that should have shipped 3 weeks ago.

Helvetica Neue · Jul 8, 2003, 04:15 PM

Very strange 'coincidence' that they took the boards down just before Quark 6.

If they had faith in their product, they wouldn't pull the plug on a public forum that would discuss the 'merits' of 6.

That, combined with Quark firing its US R&D and Marketing staff after it came out, reports that Quark 6 doesn't reliably open files from earlier versions, make you question the contempt displayed towards both employees and customers.

-Q- · Jul 8, 2003, 04:21 PM

I hadn't heard of the firing. Do you have any links? Not surprising, unfortunately.

There are some reports trickling in over at Macintouch but nothing too substantial. They seem to be taking their sweet time in shipping the product.

Glad I won't be giving any more money to them.

::maroma:: · Jul 8, 2003, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by -Q-:
Glad I won't be giving any more money to them.

Helvetica Neue · 09:35 PM

Originally posted by -Q-:
I hadn't heard of the firing. Do you have any links? Not surprising, unfortunately.

Sorry, don't have links. But after lay-offs that have been happening in the last 18 months or so (engineers sacked in Denver, cheap labour hired for development, 'customer service' and techsupport in India etc), European staff reduced to an absolute minimum in Germany and the UK), this latest round of lay-offs is a public secret to those in the know in the Colorado area I'm afraid...

I guess the idea is to get as many people as possible to upgrade to Quark 6/not to switch to InDesign, whilst hiring a huge number of cheap coders to bring the XPress code base (decades old) into the 21st century.

By the way, if the Quark forums are down, did yoy read this: Indesign really seems better at opening Quark file than Xpress itself

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?...30708081801763

laxthxdude · Jul 8, 2003, 10:32 PM

I can answer questions reguarding Quark 6 since I have it. Fire away.

From my first playing around with it, the same thing always come into mind: Quark has done very little to innovate from version 4.1. Honestly. Look at where InDesign has come from and where they have gotten in such a short time period.

zorro23 · Jul 9, 2003, 03:12 AM

I have tried Quark 6.
My first impression: almost nothing new in Quark 6 for DTP (except multiple undos) and a lot slower than Quark 4 or Quark 5 under OS 9.

:haripu: · Jul 9, 2003, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by laxthxdude:
I can answer questions reguarding Quark 6 since I have it. Fire away.

Ok. First question: I want to save a Quark document for Version 4, so that the agency I am working for can use it on their systems.

Possible without using Classic?

MojoRising022 · Jul 9, 2003, 05:41 AM

No, you cannot save into Quark 4 format using Quark 6. Only to Quark 5.

Also, none of the plug-ins work anymore (not surprisingly), so in addition to the money spent to upgrade, I am looking at additional cost to upgrade plug-ins - when they are released.

laxthxdude · Jul 9, 2003, 07:39 AM

That is correct. Options are saving as version 5 or 6 only. This is the main reason I haven't recommended upgrades to our 4.1 users. In fact, we will probably just switch to InDesign.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 9, 2003, 08:50 AM

I don't know who you people work for, but EVERYONE I talk to says "We are just waiting for Quark 6 reviews and then we are upgrading". I mention InDesign and they laugh. Switching from Quark to InDesign would be like moving from MS Office to AppleWorks... You can do it, and save some money, but why bother...

Many of the printers I deal with STILL have major issues with InDesign documents. They cringe when I send them in...

lookmark · Jul 9, 2003, 11:04 AM

I'd say many if not most companies will waiting for Quark 6.1 (or at least 6.01) to be released before upgrading.

BTW, comparing the switch from Quark to Indesign to MS Office to AppleWorks, is just totally off-base, and makes very little sense. And so far I haven't encountered any problems with printers and InDesign files. If you throw out that kind of information, be more specific.

Anyway. Let's not detour this thread into another Indy vs. Quark battle, OK? I'm much more interested in hearing people's experiences with Quark 6.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 9, 2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by lookmark:
BTW, comparing the switch from Quark to Indesign to MS Office to AppleWorks, is just totally off-base, and makes very little sense. And so far I haven't encountered any problems with printers and InDesign files. If you throw out that kind of information, be more specific.

Actually, I think the comparison is perfect. Both Quark and InDesign are VERY nice applications that preform rather well. They both have their strong and weak points.

M$ Office, like Quark, it's the long standing corporate "standard". Many people complain that it's clunky and overpriced. The sad truth is, it's the standard (we can deny it all we want, but it's the truth). Everyone accepts Word files without hesitation. Most people have been using Word for years, and aren't going to abandon it on a whim no matter what new and exciting application comes out, even if the application is much MUCH better.

Appleworks on the other hand is just as good as MS Office, less expensive and some say much easier to use. (Again, not a perfect analogy, but what analogy is). Fewer people use AppleWorks, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a great application (It got me through 4 years of college).

The printer issue had to do with their RIP systems. The fonts tended to have issues (they had a tendency to jump about 2-3 points on the line. They also had some small color issues. Not a major issue, but it would have been annoying if it would have been something big.

lookmark · Jul 9, 2003, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Actually, I think the comparison is perfect. Both Quark and InDesign are VERY nice applications that preform rather well. They both have their strong and weak points.

M$ Office, like Quark, it's the long standing corporate "standard". Many people complain that it's clunky and overpriced. The sad truth is, it's the standard (we can deny it all we want, but it's the truth). Everyone accepts Word files without hesitation. Most people have been using Word for years, and aren't going to abandon it on a whim no matter what new and exciting application comes out, even if the application is much MUCH better.

Appleworks on the other hand is just as good as MS Office, less expensive and some say much easier to use. (Again, not a perfect analogy, but what analogy is). Fewer people use AppleWorks, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a great application (It got me through 4 years of college).

Well, I definitely agree both Indy and Quark each have their strong and weak points. And I guessI see the point of your analogy in terms of the industry standard, but...

Appleworks is a consumer-level software that can't compare in functionality to Office. It's an old piece of software, and the Mother of Bad Carbon Ports. So comparing it to InDesign doesn't work all that well for me.

Maybe Powerpoint and Keynote...?

The printer issue had to do with their RIP systems. The fonts tended to have issues (they had a tendency to jump about 2-3 points on the line. They also had some small color issues. Not a major issue, but it would have been annoying if it would have been something big.

Ugh. Has the issue been resolved? Will this printer not accept InDesign documents?

Helvetica Neue · Jul 9, 2003, 05:47 PM

The Adobe forums is the best way to find out about Quark 6 nowadays:

"Hey--I just had to PDF a bunch of Legacy Quark 4.0 files (Using ID2) for a friend who can't get them to open at all in 6.0!!! Her IT department took 4 off her machine, can't be found to reinstall 4 and these files need to go to press today.

So much for 6!!!! I can't wait 'til my "Quark Customer Service" person calls me to ask why I haven't upgraded to 6 (they called repeatedly when 5 came out)"

Looks like Indesign is more reliable in opening Quark files than Quark

voodoo · Jul 10, 2003, 06:30 AM

... like yeah

that was an ADOBE forum smartypants. (it's like reading about a wierd embarrassing PC error on a Mac forum - take it with a grain of salt)

mitchell_pgh · Jul 10, 2003, 09:36 AM

I would have to say that the fact that there is little or no information (positive or negative) about Quark 6 is a good sign. I have been able to open every quark document (from 3.1 and beyond). I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone to upgrade.

JLL · Jul 10, 2003, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would have to say that the fact that there is little or no information (positive or negative) about Quark 6 is a good sign. I have been able to open every quark document (from 3.1 and beyond). I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone to upgrade.

There have been quite a few reports of QXP6 unable to open QXP4 & 5 docs.

There's also this:

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?...30708081801763

And here is one of the strangest reviews I've ever read:

http://www.creativepro.com/story/rev...l?cprose=daily

godzookie2k · Jul 10, 2003, 01:12 PM

speedwise Quark 6 toasts ID2 in every category. I have had no issues with opening documents with it either.I don't know a single studio or publication or corporate real world designer in these parts even thinking about switching to ID.

Helvetica Neue · Jul 10, 2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would have to say that the fact that there is little or no information (positive or negative) about Quark 6 is a good sign.

Which is why the Quark forums are down of course.

aehaas · Jul 11, 2003, 11:10 AM

I think it is very interesting that Quark 6 can only be put on one machine. You cannot put it on your portable and your laptop. You need to buy 2 copies. This is unacceptable.

I think it may be time for ID.

aehaas

tdvorak · Jul 11, 2003, 04:35 PM

I own ID and reallly like it. I've also ordered my upgrade ($299.00 not $1000.00) to QXP. I am anxiously awaiting that delivery. I will probably switch back to XPress-having used it since 1989! It's an okay program and does what I need it to do. Although I really like the flexibility ID gives me...

Bohemia · Jul 12, 2003, 10:18 AM

Could someone with first hand experience on 6.0 please post some screenshots and maybe some first impressions/thoughts on how it is to work with?

Is it less responsive? How are the new features? Any troubles? There was a thousand threads about panther on these things, but for many graphic designers, 6.0 is really going to change things as much as an upgrade to the OS. Waiting for that font book though.

aehaas · Jul 14, 2003, 11:23 PM

I spoke with a rep from Quark Monday evening. They say it will be another week or two before my upgrade gets shipped.

Apparently they are a little behind getting the release out the door.

aehaas

aehaas · Jul 16, 2003, 02:52 PM

'Got email this afternoon that it is being shipped overnight. Hopefully it is will get out today.

aehaas

aehaas · Jul 17, 2003, 07:14 PM

Here is the best information I can give you. Do not buy QuarkXPress 6.0.

I have been a Quark user since about 1988 and have had 2 copies - I always upgraded both. I think that is fair for them as I use 2 computers side by side. At home I have a dual 800 desktop and a 15 TiBook. I frequently work with both at the same time then copy to the portable then go to the office. I am a plastic surgeon. I do my own brochures and office forms on Quark. My office desktop is an old 500 AGP G4. When I travel I need a smaller 12 PBook. That is all, 4 computers, one user.

I had one copy of Quark on the 2 portables and the other copy of Quark on the 2 desktops. I just put 6.0 on the 15 Ti and another copy on the dp 800. I cannot put any copies on the other 12 PBook or the office 500 AGP. I called Quark. They said I would have to buy 2 more copies, another $2,000 worth of Quark.

Does this make sense to anybody? One user and 4 computers at 2 different locations needing $4,000 worth of Quark to function?

It gets worse. If I understood them correctly when I get a 17 inch powerbook I would have to but a 5th copy of Quark. I suppose that if my house burned down I would have to buy even more copies as each copy of Quark is sold for only one computer, period.

Smart people learn from their mistakes, really smart people learn from the other persons mistakes.

aehaas

Helvetica Neue · Jul 18, 2003, 08:22 PM

Hi aehaas

Could've told you this weeks ago and saved you some cash. In return for the cash saved, you could've made my face a bit more bearable to look at, being a plastic surgeon

voodoo · Jul 19, 2003, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by aehaas:
Here is the best information I can give you. Do not buy QuarkXPress 6.0.

I have been a Quark user since about 1988 and have had 2 copies - I always upgraded both. I think that is fair for them as I use 2 computers side by side. At home I have a dual 800 desktop and a 15 TiBook. I frequently work with both at the same time then copy to the portable then go to the office. I am a plastic surgeon. I do my own brochures and office forms on Quark. My office desktop is an old 500 AGP G4. When I travel I need a smaller 12 PBook. That is all, 4 computers, one user.

I had one copy of Quark on the 2 portables and the other copy of Quark on the 2 desktops. I just put 6.0 on the 15 Ti and another copy on the dp 800. I cannot put any copies on the other 12 PBook or the office 500 AGP. I called Quark. They said I would have to buy 2 more copies, another $2,000 worth of Quark.

Does this make sense to anybody? One user and 4 computers at 2 different locations needing $4,000 worth of Quark to function?

It gets worse. If I understood them correctly when I get a 17 inch powerbook I would have to but a 5th copy of Quark. I suppose that if my house burned down I would have to buy even more copies as each copy of Quark is sold for only one computer, period.

Smart people learn from their mistakes, really smart people learn from the other persons mistakes.

aehaas

wow thou art stupid.

this is so simple and yet you choose to understand it in the most inceredibly bafflingly obnoxiously idiodic way possible.

XPress 6 is 100% OK. That is the beginning and the end of it.

You can spread FUD about the licencing scheme as you like. <idiot>

Helvetica Neue · 07:09 AM

Adobe licensing allows you to install your software on a desktop and laptop as long as you don't use them at the same time.

Quark 6 licensing allows installation on 1 computer - the activation is linked to the machine itself. This means that you require 2 copies of the software to use on your desktop and laptop.

FACT, not FUD

Please read http://www.quark.com/products/xpress...tivation.html:
" single-user license of QuarkXPress allows you to install and use the software on one computer at a time. If you install a single-user copy of QuarkXPress on more than one computer, an error message will display, and all but one copy of the software will be disabled. If you require a QuarkXPress license for more than one computer, you must purchase a copy for each computer on which you want to run QuarkXPress. "

Helvetica Neue · Jul 19, 2003, 07:07 AM

XPress 6 is 100% OK. That is the beginning and the end of it.

If XPress 6 is 100% ok, how come:
-there are people reporting not being able to launch the application at all, a problem acknowledged by Quark itself;
-there are people being unable to open their version 4 and 5 files;
-there are people losing their indexes from previous book files when opened in 6;
-there are problems running Xpress 6 under a multi-user environment due to privileges issues;
-people complain about losing the edit image functionality;
etc etc

And people wonder why their forums are down, at $15 per techsupport call...

aehaas · 08:37 AM

On a positive note they - Quark - are working on a fix for my problem. The big problem is that I need working copies right now!

Some initial work impressions:

I can open Quark 3.0, 3.3, 4 and 5 document versions no problem at all. The program can only save back to ver 5. This makes sense as there are some features that 4 and earlier do not have that cannot be compatible.

In some ways the program is faster, but dialog boxes appear slower.

My big problem is all my PS fonts in the OS 9 system folder. How do I get them global into OSX? Only the fonts in OSX are seem by ver. 6.0. All my documents open and ask to convert fonts into those available in X.

aehaas

Goodbye OS9

almaink · Jul 19, 2003, 09:48 AM

I put an alias of my os9 fonts folders in Library/fonts and all my os9 fonts are seen in OS10.2.6.

My big problem is all my PS fonts in the OS 9 system folder. How do I get them global into OSX? Only the fonts in OSX are seem by ver. 6.0. All my documents open and ask to convert fonts into those available in X.

aehaas

Goodbye OS9 [/B][/QUOTE]

JLL · Jul 19, 2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
wow thou art stupid.

this is so simple and yet you choose to understand it in the most inceredibly bafflingly obnoxiously idiodic way possible.

XPress 6 is 100% OK. That is the beginning and the end of it.

You can spread FUD about the licencing scheme as you like. <idiot>

Care to explain what was wrong in his post?

I find it funny that you call some people Adobe zealots - you are the biggest Quark zealot on this planet.

voodoo · Jul 19, 2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
Care to explain what was wrong in his post?

I find it funny that you call some people Adobe zealots - you are the biggest Quark zealot on this planet.

uh while your comment is not worth replying to it certainly shows your character.

Let me make one thing absolutely clear here jll - I don't give a rats shait about Quark or Adobe. Get a life. I just use the best tool at a given time - be it from Microsoft or Adobe.

voodoo · Jul 19, 2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Helvetica Neue:
If XPress 6 is 100% ok, how come:
-there are people reporting not being able to launch the application at all, a problem acknowledged by Quark itself;
-there are people being unable to open their version 4 and 5 files;
-there are people losing their indexes from previous book files when opened in 6;
-there are problems running Xpress 6 under a multi-user environment due to privileges issues;
-people complain about losing the edit image functionality;
etc etc

And people wonder why their forums are down, at $15 per techsupport call...

and how come there are people that are using XPress 6 without any problems? There is always someone who has problems. Isolated incidents prove nothing. Is OS X damn good? Yep, but why then have some people had serious problems with it. Maybe you should reserve judgment until the dust has settled and people have used XPress6 for a few months.

JLL · 03:23 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
uh while your comment is not worth replying to it certainly shows your character.

Quite a mood you're in these days. Instead of calling people stupid and idiots you could at least explain what you mean.

Don't talk about character!

Originally posted by voodoo:
Let me make one thing absolutely clear here jll - I don't give a rats shait about Quark or Adobe.

Haha, that made me laugh.

JLL · Jul 19, 2003, 03:19 PM

and how come there are people that are using Mac OS X without any problems? There is always someone who has problems. Isolated incidents prove nothing. Maybe you should reserve judgment until the dust has settled and people have used Mac OS X for a few months.

Had you written that you would've have been called an Apple apologist

voodoo · Jul 19, 2003, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
Quite a mood you're in these days. Instead of calling people stupid and idiots you could at least explain what you mean.

When people claim something without any explaination or reasoning, try and sensationalize things - I reply right back at them in the same manner. Sensationalism has no place in software dicussion. There is the matter of *taste* and *preference* but those are subjective and silly to discuss if the topic is the fundamental usability of an app. Random isolated occurrances of errors are silly too.

JLL · Jul 19, 2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
When people claim something without any explaination or reasoning, try and sensationalize things - I reply right back at them in the same manner.

wow thou art stupid. <idiot>

Originally posted by voodoo:
Random isolated occurrances of errors are silly too.

I guess you're too blind to see the many reports about QXP 6 on different sites

voodoo · Jul 19, 2003, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
wow thou art stupid. <idiot>

I guess you're too blind to see the many reports about QXP 6 on different sites

sorry jll, I have never been able to respect you. never will either. you just don't get the simplest things.

Helvetica Neue · 10:38 PM

JLL

It would seem that voodoo is away with the fairies, and his only way of responding is becoming personal.

He wants to claim that XPress 6 is 100% ok, but he also wants to wait for the dust to settle.

Which one is it gonna be?

Personally I find it rather offensive when he calls someone an idiot (!) for mentioning Quark's licensing policies. Note how he never refuted the quotes from the quark licensing site.

Of course, Voodoo is perfectly happy paying twice the price of InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat combined just to run this 100% ok application on his desktop and his wee ibook...

Or come to that, even more than twice the amount, because being a sophisticated european he will need passport, which retails at, how much exactly mr voodoo?

Helvetica Neue · Jul 19, 2003, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by almaink:
I put an alias of my os9 fonts folders in Library/fonts and all my os9 fonts are seen in OS10.2.6.

My big problem is all my PS fonts in the OS 9 system folder. How do I get them global into OSX? Only the fonts in OSX are seem by ver. 6.0. All my documents open and ask to convert fonts into those available in X.

aehaas

Goodbye OS9

[/B][/QUOTE]

Try something like Fontreserve to manage those fonts, or if you're on os x only now, just drop the fonts in your user:library:fonts folder...

voodoo · Jul 20, 2003, 10:06 AM

"Or come to that, even more than twice the amount, because being a sophisticated european he will need passport, which retails at, how much exactly mr voodoo?"

about as much as the low end G5 sells for here.

Price is not an obsticle - but other cheaper apps may appeal more to potential newcomomers to dtp I imagine.

(if you didn't understand why I claimed XPress6 was 100% ok then .. <sigh>)

seriously though, I look forward to hear more about XPress 6 - good or bad. Just keep the stories coming people.

Sven G · Jul 20, 2003, 10:21 AM

... Not quite at XPress' level (and definitely not at InDesign's), but unbeatable from the price ($/� 0.00) point of view - Scribus 1.0 has just been released:

There's also a Fink package (still "unstable", and not quite the latest version) - and very interesting reviews/threads on OSNews, KDE.News, and Slashdot...

Helvetica Neue · Jul 20, 2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
seriously though, I look forward to hear more about XPress 6 - good or bad. Just keep the stories coming people.

True. Look forward to stories. Don't you have a copy then Voodoo?

voodoo · Jul 20, 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Helvetica Neue:
True. Look forward to stories. Don't you have a copy then Voodoo?

nope, I will get my hands on version 6 this autumn.

I use version 4.03.

aehaas · Jul 20, 2003, 11:22 AM

I am keeping OS 9 to occasionally run Street-Atlas USA. I took the 5 or so OS 9 fonts and left them the original OS 9 system folder.

I put all the other fonts, mostly but not all PS ones and left them in a folder I labeled fonts. I then dropped this fonts folder into the Library/fonts folder and all is fine.

I noticed there were some duplicates and pitched those.

Now all is fine on that issue. Quark automatically groups them as Adobe Type Reunion did. Incidentally, prepositions are not good to end sentences with.

aehaas

JLL · Jul 20, 2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
nope, I will get my hands on version 6 this autumn.

I use version 4.03.

It's funny that you defend a piece of software that you haven't even tried - could the bug reports be true?? Oh the horror!!

(awaits a voodoo answer that I don't understand him)

Helvetica Neue · Jul 20, 2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
It's funny that you defend a piece of software that you haven't even tried - could the bug reports be true?? Oh the horror!!

A truly unbelievable approach from someone(voodoo) who said: "Maybe you should reserve judgment until the dust has settled and people have used XPress6 for a few months."

In other words, we cannot expect an informed judgment from voodoo on Quark 6 a few months after he gets it this autumn.

I look forward to his posts in November/December