Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

OldManMac · Apr 19, 2007, 04:40 PM

It looks like Vista isn't selling so well after all, as I'd figured.

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/04/...ubts.on.vista/

Dell today revealed that it will restore the option to use Windows XP on some of its home systems, marking a potentially damaging blow to Microsoft's hopes for the newer Windows Vista. The Dimension E520 and E521 as well as virtually all of the company's Inspiron notebooks can immediately be custom-ordered with XP in Home or Professional editions, giving cautious buyers the opportunity to use the earlier OS. The change in policy was the result of user feedback, Dell claims.
While a popular request through the company's IdeaStorm website, the choice was substantially outnumbered by requests for pre-installed Linux, US-based technical support, and other features -- pointing to a larger general demand for the change. The turnaround may be a reflection of an overall backlash against Vista, observed IDC analyst Richard Shim. (more at link)

Jawbone54 · Apr 19, 2007, 04:45 PM

Is this the all-time worst OS release for Microsoft? It feels like the majority of people hate it so far, especially those that are "in the know."

osiris · Apr 19, 2007, 04:52 PM

Let the celebrations begin.

Rumor · Apr 19, 2007, 04:52 PM

I haven't heard anything but complaints so far with the exception of a couple of diehards.

I saw an article somewhere of a die hard PC guru that switched to OSX because of his extreme hatred of Vista.

Dakarʒ · Apr 19, 2007, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Is this the all-time worst OS release for Microsoft? It feels like the majority of people hate it so far,

Here's an interesting thought. What if people hate it because of its 'mac-like' features?

besson3c · Apr 19, 2007, 04:54 PM

I'd really like to see Linux in business/enterprise/education/government, and OS X everywhere else...

OldManMac · Apr 19, 2007, 04:54 PM

I'm not sure I'd rate it as the worst; I think ME holds that title. It does show how far off the mark Microsloth is, and that more people are realizing there are other options available, especially, as you state, those in the know. This could be a double edged sword for Microshaft. Those in the know don't like it, and the home user isn't eager to switch because it's different. A lot of people don't like change. I was working at CompUSA at the Vista launch; the store I was in sold four or five copies, despite a decent crowd at the midnight launch. I had two people come in to look into Vista machines, and I sold both of them new Macs, on Vista launch night!

Gossamer · Apr 19, 2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by KarlG

I think ME holds that title.

I think you meant to say "I," not "ME"

It does show how far off the mark Microsloth is, and that more people are realizing there are other options available, especially, as you state, those in the know. This could be a double edged sword for Microshaft.

Rumor · Apr 19, 2007, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Here's an interesting thought. What if people hate it because of its poorly implemented 'mac-like' features?

Fixed that for you.

Dakarʒ · Apr 19, 2007, 05:08 PM

Enhanced.

Rumor · Apr 19, 2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Enhanced.

Damn, you're fast.

I hope the women don't say that also.

Chuckit · Apr 19, 2007, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Here's an interesting thought. What if people hate it because of its 'mac-like' features?

I find that doubtful. I haven't heard anybody complain about that. Mainly they just seem to feel like it's underwhelming given how much more it taxes your system.

mduell · Apr 19, 2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I saw an article somewhere of a die hard PC guru that switched to OSX because of his extreme hatred of Vista.

I'm not a die hard, but the Vista beta (and Apple's Intel switch) convinced me to get my parents a Mac instead of another PC, and the final release of Vista convinced me that my next machine will be a Mac (as soon as they offer a 15" laptop with an HD screen).

Jawbone54 · Apr 19, 2007, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I find that doubtful. I haven't heard anybody complain about that. Mainly they just seem to feel like it's underwhelming given how much more it taxes your system.

Yeah, exactly. Most people are amazed that their new or fairly-new systems can't run it. At least not at a level they deem acceptable.

Jawbone54 · Apr 19, 2007, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

I'm not a die hard, but the Vista beta (and Apple's Intel switch) convinced me to get my parents a Mac instead of another PC, and the final release of Vista convinced me that my next machine will be a Mac (as soon as they offer a 15" laptop with an HD screen).

Ummmm...?

scottiB · Apr 19, 2007, 05:45 PM

The 15 inch MBP is 1440 x 900, not HD1 specs. Not even the 17 inch model is HD1 (1680x1050).

Gossamer · Apr 19, 2007, 05:51 PM

I want text so small that I can't read it.

Dakarʒ · Apr 19, 2007, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I want text so small that I can't read it.

But you know its there, and that's what counts.

Jawbone54 · Apr 19, 2007, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

But you know its there, and that's what counts.

Actually, my computer feels REALLY awesome whenever there's no way to prove that the text is even there.

My computer rawks that way, you see.

Chuckit · Apr 19, 2007, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I want text so small that I can't read it.

That's the whole idea behind resolution independence: You can have huge-DPI screens and it will just make your text look prettier.

Railroader · Apr 19, 2007, 06:15 PM

I like pretty text.

Gossamer · Apr 19, 2007, 06:26 PM

RI hasn't been confirmed for Leopard yet has it?

Chuckit · Apr 19, 2007, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

RI hasn't been confirmed for Leopard yet has it?

It has.

Gossamer · Apr 19, 2007, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It has.

Well that's cool.

::maroma:: · Apr 19, 2007, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

My computer rawks that way, you see.

Actually no, we can't see. The damn text is too small!

Dakarʒ · Apr 19, 2007, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That's the whole idea behind resolution independence: You can have huge-DPI screens and it will just make your text look prettier.

Didn't your mother teach you its what's on the inside that counts?

Chuckit · Apr 19, 2007, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Didn't your mother teach you its what's on the inside that counts?

Nah, my mom only taught me true stuff.

Dakarʒ · Apr 19, 2007, 07:18 PM

Oh thank god.

osiris · Apr 19, 2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I'd really like to see Linux in business/enterprise/education/government, and OS X everywhere else...

I think it's going that way. Where I work 1500+ employees use some variant of Unix for web hosting, serving, and soon mail.
However, almost all 'business' users are on Dells (begging for Vista, no less).
Macs make up about 15%.

What makes me laugh is the complete lack of foresight on Microsoft's part.
I mean, didn't anyone there test it first? The mind reels.

faragbre967 · Apr 19, 2007, 08:50 PM

I bought the Vista upgrade on a whim while I was at Costco sometime around the day it came out. It uses more memory than XP but overall I don't see any difference in usability. I like Aero, the sidebar, the new task bar.

The worst part about it is the fact that Solitaire seems to be actively keeping me from winning. I mean, I really think it cheats.

torsoboy · Apr 19, 2007, 10:54 PM

I got a free upgrade to Vista because I bought a PC in November, and ever since upgrading (about a month ago) my wife has not liked using the computer much at all. It has TONS of "you don't have permission to delete x" bugs even though we have turned off the stupid user access crap and we are logged in as the administrator. She uses photoshop a lot and it is constantly not letting her save her work because "the file is in use by another program"... she has like 10 copies of everything because when she works on it she has to save it as a new file since it wont let her save it as the same one she has open. And it really really bugs me when I can't access a folder on my machine when I am logged in as the administrator and it give me a "you don't have permission to view this folder" message. Arrrg. I would switch back to XP if it wasn't such a huge pain to do. We are not happy Vista users.

Oh, and the constant hard drive grinding with Vista is really annoying also. I am not sure who beta tested this thing but I'm pretty sure they would have found most of these bugs if the beta testers actually tried to use the OS at all.

torsoboy · Apr 19, 2007, 10:58 PM

haha... just found this on Microsoft's web site. I guess a lot of people were asking how to "uninstall" windows vista:

You cannot uninstall Windows Vista by using the "Uninstall a program" option of the Programs and Features Control Panel tool

Jumbonium2007 · Apr 19, 2007, 11:03 PM

I installed vista on my mac mini with bootcamp.. I didnt like all the security features like using the ipconfig /renew.. it says this action requires elevation.. i mean come on after 2 hours of researching elevation it requires you to run the command prompt as administrator to renew the IP.. I dont like aero.. its just too weird for me.. I like my OS X.. Buggy too... the hard drive activity is always going even with a gig of ram

Kerrigan · Apr 20, 2007, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Oh thank god.

Just thought I'd let everyone know I'm still GAY! omg!

As for Vista... allow me to conjecture. I think that since XP is relatively stable and meets most peoples' needs, Windows software has actually turned into something a durable good, to use an economics term.

In other words, since the software does its job well enough, the user doesn't feel the need to replace it very often. Like a washing machine, if it works well, then why spend the $500 or whatever to replace it with a newer model, whose benefits aren't quite clear?

I certainly behave this way vis-à-vis Windows. I've been using XP for around 6 years now, and frankly I could see myself using it for several more years.

OSX is totally different: all of us Mac fans buy/steal every latest release, just because it's such a cool OS.

Gossamer · Apr 20, 2007, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Just thought I'd let everyone know I'm still GAY! omg!

Did you forget to log back in under your Salty name?

Kerrigan · Apr 20, 2007, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Did you forget to log back in under your Salty name?

Where is Salty anyways? And SWG? Haven't seen the gays around here lately.

butterfly0fdoom · Apr 20, 2007, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

In other words, since the software does its job well enough, the user doesn't feel the need to replace it very often. Like a washing machine, if it works well, then why spend the $500 or whatever to replace it with a newer model, whose benefits aren't quite clear?

I certainly behave this way vis-à-vis Windows. I've been using XP for around 6 years now, and frankly I could see myself using it for several more years.

There actually is a learning curve to Vista (which got me really frustrated, Mac OS X was easier to learn), too, as a lot of things have been re-organized. Which was a reason I've heard from salespeople to switch to a Mac (I've been eavesdropping sometimes in stores as I try out Vista laptops at Micro Center).

Gossamer · Apr 20, 2007, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Where is Salty anyways? And SWG? Haven't seen the gays around here lately.

Salty stopped coming around when every time he posted he got attacked by the MacNN Anti-Gay League™. SWG is around as analogue SPRINKLES, he claims to have retired the star wars names.

Jawbone54 · Apr 20, 2007, 01:42 AM

analogue SPRINKLES is SWG???

I'm not joking. I had no idea.

Don't I feel sheepish...

Gossamer · Apr 20, 2007, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Don't I feel sheepish...

Play that game a little too much?

Chuckit · Apr 20, 2007, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

analogue SPRINKLES is SWG???

I'm not joking. I had no idea.

I didn't know either. His sig isn't linked to his site or anything like usual.

Jawbone54 · Apr 20, 2007, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Play that game a little too much?

anonymac · Apr 20, 2007, 03:24 AM

Vista is hardly what all of you are making it out to be.

In fact, it is much easier to use than XP ever was and has everything a computer users needs in its out of the box configuration (Ultimate is obviously the best). XP does not have that.

Vista has an easy to use calendar, a very nice widget system, flip3d, photo gallery software, easy configuration, a great file browser, complete disk image backup in Ultimate, vastly improved user interface, and easy networking. Not to mention that most software is now Vista compatible or can be run as is.

I just don't see what the hatred of Vista is about. After all a computer is only a tool to get work done. While OS X was very good with its user interface for awhile, Vista is now a worthy competitor.

PB2K · Apr 20, 2007, 04:00 AM

if you use your dominant position to sell third rate products it won't take a long time before customers get fed up with you. I'm surprised it took so long.

anonymac · Apr 20, 2007, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by PB2K

if you use your dominant position to sell third rate products it won't take a long time before customers get fed up with you. I'm surprised it took so long.

Third rate? As opposed to what? Linux? You've got to be kidding. Linux is UNUSABLE to anyone who isn't a computer geek. Even if you venture into it, you soon realize that software is a nightmare to deal with.

Third rate to Macintosh? Macintosh has a nice GUI, but it's slow on the average computer. Software is better than you would expect, but lacks the availability/support on windows.

Third rate to Unix? Maybe you ought to realize that the majority of people who use computers aren't telephone company technicians.

Windows is the only widely used/supported OS that there is. Saying it is "third rate" is really brainless.

PB2K · Apr 20, 2007, 04:33 AM

i belong to the brainless people

C.A.T.S. CEO · Apr 20, 2007, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by anonymac

Third rate? As opposed to what? Linux? You've got to be kidding. Linux is UNUSABLE to anyone who isn't a computer geek. Even if you venture into it, you soon realize that software is a nightmare to deal with.

dude, the only terminal command I have mastered in Linux is apt-get (Ubuntu). It depends on the distro. The new version of Ubuntu, which came out yesterday, is pretty damn slick. The installer rivals OS X's installer, it will import your docs from your old Linux system. With the package manager installing and uninstalling is a breeze. I haven't had a prob with anything yet.

Third rate to Macintosh? Macintosh has a nice GUI, but it's slow on the average computer. Software is better than you would expect, but lacks the availability/support on windows.

Well duh it won't run fast on a 'average computer', OS X Doesn't run on a average computer! Unless you hacked it and have it on a PC, it will still run slow from the hacking.

Windows is the only widely used/supported OS that there is. Saying it is "third rate" is really brainless.

Just because a OS is widely supported doesn't mean its not third rate.

mac128k-1984 · Apr 20, 2007, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Salty stopped coming around when every time he posted he got attacked by the MacNN Anti-Gay League™.

I wouldn't say every time he posted. He's partly to blame as he seemed intent on posting things of a controversial nature or a on a theme that would get a raise our of people regarldless of who the OP was (salty or any tom dick or harry).

mac128k-1984 · Apr 20, 2007, 08:27 AM

Back to the subject at hand;

I bought and use Vista on my MacPro and results have been mixed. I wouldn't call it third rate as some posters have.
Its not a bad attempt by M$, seems to be a tad faster with less memory, I have 4 gig but it only see 2 yet is as fast if not faster the OSX on a number of tasks. Security is no where near as robust as OSX (cancel/allow is a joke), the file explorer was changed and well I hate it. I liked the file explorer on XP now its nearly unusable. The graphical interface seems a little more snappy then OSX's but there's no denying that M$ ripped off OSX.

All in all, for windows, its not bad and in fact I think an improvement over xp.

I also can see why Dell has returned the option of XP, I use my windows environment to work and the vpn software as well as citrix does not work on vista. Additionally my company has taken a not supporting vista approach so I'm on my own to finding drivers.

starman · Apr 20, 2007, 09:29 AM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'll stick with XP until I HAVE to replace it.