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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Show off the power of your machine!

Show off the power of your machine!
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Scotttheking
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Dec 19, 2003, 03:15 AM
 
Do you have a mac? Do you want to show it's power? Do you want to kick PC ass? Do you want to contribute to scientific research? If you answered yes to any of these questions, Team MacNN is for you.
With the release of the new 1.53 gromacs core, Macs participating in folding@home have received approximately a 4X speed boost. With this improvement, Macs are extremely competitive at the project. We want you to join us, to help push us to the top of the rankings.

All that you need to do is run a client on your machine which will use your unused processing power to further scientific research being conducted by Stanford University. While you are doing that, you are also helping Team MacNN advance in the overall team standings.
To participate, simply install the client, located here. You have the choice of a graphical client, a screensaver, or the most efficient text client, which, when installed and run twice will use both CPUs.
Simply run the client, choose a username, and enter '16' as the team, without the quotes.
Then, watch your stats here.

Don't want to participate in folding@home? We also have teams participating in seti@home, rc5-72, distributed folding, and d2ol.

For more information, visit our site at http://team.macnn.com. For assistance in setting up the client, or for any other questions you may have, head over to our forum.

I hope to see you all participate.

--Scott
( Last edited by Scotttheking; Feb 11, 2004 at 01:13 PM. )
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Axo1ot1
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Dec 19, 2003, 02:42 PM
 
How does this affect pro applications? I do a lot of intense FCP and Photoshop work on my dual 1.8. I've been hesitant to install SETI or folding because I'm worried about losing system speed.
     
Turias
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Dec 19, 2003, 02:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Axo1ot1:
How does this affect pro applications? I do a lot of intense FCP and Photoshop work on my dual 1.8. I've been hesitant to install SETI or folding because I'm worried about losing system speed.
It shouldn't really affect it at all. These distributed computing applications should only use unused processor power. They are all set to a low priority, so if you are doing something in FCP, Photoshop, or anything else, those applications will get the processor first.

I run F@H on my machine at work 24/7 and never notice any slowdowns because of it.
     
reader50
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Dec 19, 2003, 03:43 PM
 
Folding at Home definitely nices itself down to idle priority. Other projects should be checked, in case they need a preference set for minimal priority.
     
ul1984
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Dec 20, 2003, 11:06 AM
 
i started doing some folding on my PB, and i got a couple of questions

1. i set it to only use fetch F@H work units, and not G@H, do you recommend i do that, or should i set it to fetch both types of work units?

2. how long have i got to complete my unit, i think my work is of this type: "Project: 913 (Run 26, Clone 14, Gen 10)" can i find out how long i got to complete a unit based on that?

3. is there some benchmark site somewhere, where i can find out what processor is best for this kinda job, etc, how the G4 compares to a G5 and things like that?
     
reader50
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Dec 20, 2003, 01:44 PM
 
1. It does not matter on a Mac. They have yet to port the Genome crunch core to our platform, so you will get only Folding work regardless of how that preference is set.

2. Project list, including deadlines and credits.

3. There were some benchmark sites, but they are very outdated. The G4/5 is very competitive on Gromacs work units (FahCore_78.exe) but slower on Tinker work units (FahCore_65.exe), in which the P4 or Athlon64/Opteron is the fastest.

Welcome. You can watch the PC teams we are scheduled to run over here.
     
ul1984
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Dec 20, 2003, 03:11 PM
 
Originally posted by reader50:
1. It does not matter on a Mac. They have yet to port the Genome crunch core to our platform, so you will get only Folding work regardless of how that preference is set.

2. Project list, including deadlines and credits.

3. There were some benchmark sites, but they are very outdated. The G4/5 is very competitive on Gromacs work units (FahCore_78.exe) but slower on Tinker work units (FahCore_65.exe), in which the P4 or Athlon64/Opteron is the fastest.

Welcome. You can watch the PC teams we are scheduled to run over here.
thx that answered most of my questions, except Project 913 isnt in the Project List, but i guess its about the same as Project 914?
     
billybob128
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Dec 20, 2003, 03:40 PM
 
usually if the unit number you have is not on the list then it is a beta and so is not listed by some peoples reequest. dunno why this is but it is.
i get a lot of those but just let them run out and reap the glory of the points that i get from them.

MacbookPro dual 2Ghz 1GB Ram 128 Graphics
     
ul1984
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Dec 20, 2003, 04:48 PM
 
k cool
     
Turias
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Dec 22, 2003, 12:53 PM
 
Alright, so now that people have had a few days to test out the power of their machines, let's hear it!

What is your fastest machine?
On average, how many points per day is that computer getting for Folding@Home?
If you have more than 1 machine, then how many points per day are you seeing, overall?

Who's got the most power?
     
jjjjjj
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Dec 24, 2003, 10:21 PM
 
how do we know you're not using our machines to send spam? it's happened before...
     
reader50
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Dec 24, 2003, 10:41 PM
 
I'd been wondering where all my spam was coming from!

Seriously, distributed computing projects are generally run by universities or hospitals. They have no motivation to screw you over. Download a client from the project you prefer and do not worry too much.
     
Scotttheking  (op)
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Dec 27, 2003, 02:37 AM
 
For some more fun, all those who have joined are invited and encouraged to participate in our upcoming race.
More info can be found here. Feel free to join in the planning.
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fabz
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Dec 28, 2003, 06:34 AM
 
i don't know...
     
supernovamac
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Dec 28, 2003, 04:05 PM
 
If you want my computers processor time. Pay me for it. I payed for my computer.

They earn lot of moeny on this. Should�nt i get some of the profit. If you use my computer?
     
Axo1ot1
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Dec 28, 2003, 11:46 PM
 
I know nothing at all about unix so here are three questions I have:

How do i do a second install and run the folding program on another processor, and

Can I close the terminal shell I'm running it in, or does that kill the process, and

How do I make this automatically start on bootup?
     
reader50
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Dec 29, 2003, 01:10 AM
 
supernovamac: None of us get paid for this. Pay-projects have been tried, so far they have bombed. Projects are mostly run by non-profit organizations like universities and hospitals. We're doing this to save the world, and to crush various rival teams.

Axo1ot1:
Install 2nd client, I'll assume on the same box. 2nd or more clients can only be done with the CLI version, I don't know if your first install was CLI or GUI. Download the CLI as needed, expand the archive. Give the resulting folder a different name from the first client folder. In the Terminal, 'cd' into the 2nd folder, and launch the 2nd instance with the " -local" flag to force it to use it's local folder for data and config files instead of the default location in ~Library/Folding@home/. It would look something like this:
Welcome to Darwin!
[Yes Master:~] root# cd desktop/fold2
[Yes Master:~/desktop/fold2] root# ./fold -local

Enter your info again, same as before except: go into the 'advanced options' when it offers them, and change the 'Machine ID' to '2'.

Closing the Terminal window is not the best idea, unless you have launched folding in 'nohup' (non-interruptable) mode. Do this by adding '&' to the end of the command string:
[Yes Master:~/desktop/fold2] root# ./fold -local -forceasm &
You can close the Terminal window now, and even log out. Folding will keep running. Stopping it afterwards will require rebooting or issuing a kill command to the folding process. The optional '-forceasm' flag should be added in this case to force Altivec to be used - Folding assumes that if it didn't shut down properly last time, it must have locked up the box... so it turns off it's Altivec code so as to go easier on your box. The -forceasm flag overrides this shutdown check.

Automatic start on bootup: use cron.
"cron" is the unix scheduling utility. A "crontab" or "cron table" is the user schedule that cron uses. You don't need to know all that in order to use it.

Launch Terminal. It's usually in Applications/Utilities/

type crontab -e followed by Return. This opens/creates your crontab file for editing.

type i to begin insertion mode.

type:
@reboot cd "/Applications/fold/"; ./folding -local -advmethods -forceasm -verbosity 9 &
This is a cron table entry to launch folding on reboot. The cd blah/blah/blah/; part specifies where the folding CLI is located. If it's not in a folder called "fold" within the Applications folder, then adjust the filepath until it's correct. The second part launches folding with the following control flags:
-local (use local folder for storing data and prefs)
-advmethods (use latest software that Stanford offers, which is usually the fastest)
-forceasm (force optimized code to be used, in case it got turned off last time)
-verbosity 9 (log all the details - useful if something gets messed up)
& (continue executing even if the user logs out)

Hit Esc to exit insertion mode.

Now to save the new crontab, type:
:wq followed by Return. ":" escapes editing mode, "w" writes out the edited crontab, and "q" quits the editor program.

You're done, you can even quit Terminal. The next time you reboot, folding will launch by itself. Don't launch it manually, you will probably end up with duplicate copies of folding working on the same work unit. Which will presently screw up.

Further info on the command flags you can use on the Folding CLI can be found here. More info on how to use cron can be found here.
     
Turias
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Dec 29, 2003, 09:45 AM
 
Originally posted by reader50:
Closing the Terminal window is not the best idea, unless you have launched folding in 'nohup' (non-interruptable) mode. Do this by adding '&' to the end of the command string:
That's not exactly correct. Adding '&' to the end of a terminal command runs that command in the background. Thus, you can still do other things inside that terminal window. Killing that window may or may not kill the process, as it depends on how the program handles certain interrupt calls. Logging out will definitly kill that process.

If you truly want to run the process in non-interruptable mode, you must run it through the nohup program wrapper. So, the final command should be:

/usr/bin/nohup /path/to/folding/fold -advmethods -forceasm -verbosity 9 &
     
Turias
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Dec 29, 2003, 09:52 AM
 
Originally posted by supernovamac:
If you want my computers processor time. Pay me for it. I payed for my computer.

They earn lot of moeny on this. Should�nt i get some of the profit. If you use my computer?
Reader's right. Both SETI and Folding@Home are run through Stanford, and Stanford makes absolutely no money on these projects. It is merely done for scientific research. They get all of their funding through grants, and don't make any profit from you running these prorgams on your computer.


Originally posted by jjjjjj:
how do we know you're not using our machines to send spam? it's happened before...
Well, the only way you can convince yourself would be to run the program and to check your outgoing internet traffic. Or you could download one of the countless programs that does this for you.

But, if my word means anything to you, many people have already checked these things for you, and have found that none of the distributed clients that Team MacNN endorses contain spyware. I wouldn't use random clients that are not well known, but Folding@Home, SETI, Distributed Folding, RC5, and D2OL are all definitely safe.
     
supernovamac
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Dec 29, 2003, 02:05 PM
 
But the big question is. Is it helping?

I would gladly run these programs if it meant that I am helping to create a cure for some diseases. But in the end a big pharmaceutical company profits from it. How does this then help the people that relay need help? If they cant pay for it?

Searching for life out there. If we did find anything, what then? Say hello to your new neighbour. Lets have a party?

Maybe we should first get along with the neighbours that we have, before we try finding new ones.

In the end, it is all just a game anyway. But what game should I support
     
Scotttheking  (op)
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Dec 29, 2003, 02:25 PM
 
Originally posted by supernovamac:
But the big question is. Is it helping?

I would gladly run these programs if it meant that I am helping to create a cure for some diseases. But in the end a big pharmaceutical company profits from it. How does this then help the people that relay need help? If they cant pay for it?
from the fah faq
Folding@home is run by an academic institution (specifically the Pande Group, at Stanford University's Chemistry Department), which is a nonprofit institution dedicated to science research and education. We will not sell the data or make any money off of it.



Moreover, we will make the data available for others to use. In particular, the results from Folding@home will be made available on several levels. Most importantly, analysis of the simulations will be submitted to scientific journals for publication, and these journal articles will be posted on the web page after publication. Next, after publication of these scientific articles which analyze the data, the raw data of the folding runs will be available for everyone, including other researchers, here on this web site.
from the distributed folding faq
Yes. The results from this project will be made available on several levels. First, the best overall structure generated as well as the true protein structure are placed on the web for all participants to see. These are updated continuously and include information about which users contributed them. Second, analysis of the runs will be submitted to scientific journals for publication and these journal articles will be linked on the web page after publication. Due to storage requirements, the raw data (which is expected to comprise many Terabytes when all is said and done) will most likely be destroyed after analysis. Key information in the form of histograms and correlation plots will be retained, together with the best structures.
and

32. Who will own the patent for this discovery and which commercial enterprise will profit?
The results from distributed computing by the Distributed Folding software will be compiled and reviewed at the SLRI for additional study. As Distributed Folding results test the ability of the software to recreate known protein folds, the initial results are unlikely to make any new discovery about the structure of these proteins. It will, however, validate the utility of the software. The authors of the software and their employer, the Samuel Lunenfeld Research Institute (SLRI) own the Distributed Folding software under the terms of the Intellectual Property Policy of Mt. Sinai Hospital and its agreements with the University of Toronto. In any event Mt. Sinai Hospital will own any new intellectual property associated with the resulting data, and will make any such discoveries available to the public, at no cost, sometime after their initial research is completed.
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Turias
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Dec 29, 2003, 02:32 PM
 
Originally posted by supernovamac:
But the big question is. Is it helping?
Well, you have to ask that question for each of the distributed computing projects. I know that the Stanford Folding group has a results page up (the group is in the process of juggling domains, so excuse the broken images). That page shows some of what they have been able to do with their software.

The dFold group has also had positive results. Currently, one of the main purposes of their projects is to refine the algorithms they have created that help determine the structure of proteins. Their forums contain some threads that display their progress, if you are interested.

I would gladly run these programs if it meant that I am helping to create a cure for some diseases. But in the end a big pharmaceutical company profits from it. How does this then help the people that relay need help? If they cant pay for it?
I don't think that either Folding@Home or Distributed Folding are far enough along that their results will directly contribute to cured diseases. Instead, they are helping the scientific community as a whole by gaining important information about proteins and their properties.

Yes, since this information is open, it could easily help pharmaceutical companies, but the information will just as easily help non-profit organizations, universites, and hospitals.

And as to your final point about this research only helping people that can afford it... I think that subject would more appropriate in the political forum.
     
saru boy
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Dec 31, 2003, 08:22 PM
 
Installed it last night - I got 18 points for 1 WU. Is tbat any good?
     
Scotttheking  (op)
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Jan 1, 2004, 08:45 AM
 
Originally posted by saru boy:
Installed it last night - I got 18 points for 1 WU. Is tbat any good?
For FAH, work units vary in size. In order to maintain consistency, they give each WU a point value. Some WU will take much longer, but will be worth more points. For instance, I have 114092 points, but have only completed 4380 work units.

Keep up the good crunching, and I encourage everyone to stop by the team forum in the next few days to join our upcoming folding at home race.
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saru boy
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Jan 2, 2004, 03:04 AM
 
TeamMacNN is ranked 42 now. - What happened? It was at 40 when I checked yesterday.
     
reader50
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Jan 2, 2004, 03:40 AM
 
Where did you check? The official project listing places a couple of bogus teams in a separate category above all the rest - teamless users, and the google team. Our own stats ignore those two, as do most 3rd party stats and some Stanford stats..

Ignoring those two, we are ranked at #40, soon to be higher.
     
saru boy
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Jan 2, 2004, 11:23 AM
 
I checked here .

Though as you said, this ranking seems to include the Google and anonynmous teams.
     
Scotttheking  (op)
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Jan 2, 2004, 02:37 PM
 
Originally posted by saru boy:
I checked here .

Though as you said, this ranking seems to include the Google and anonynmous teams.
We've got a slightly better source for stats
base URL
From the base URL you can use the drop down to get all the info you'd ever want.
Your personal stats page
ranks (inter team comparison)
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saru boy
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Jan 3, 2004, 12:59 AM
 
Thanks for the links!

Too bad my computer at work is a pathetic 533mhz Celeron...not even worth the hassle to run F@H on that.
     
druber
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Jan 5, 2004, 12:25 PM
 
<shrugs> Even a little Celeron will help. I remember back in the day, crunching SETI units at week per unit? Pathetic, but something better than nothing.

I've finally moved on to the D2OL project, which among other things is hunting for a cure for Malaria. Malaria kills around 3000 people a day in Africa, 1.2 million a year in the world. If I can help that fight at all, I will. I don't know about measurable results, though of course I'd love to see them. I just can't sit and do nothing, let someone else figure it out. Forget the stats. Only crunch when you aren't working, whatever you can do. So little effort needed, and it might really help.
Help find a cure for Malaria: crunch D2OL for Team Macnn.
     
saru boy
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Jan 6, 2004, 01:45 AM
 
Originally posted by druber:
<shrugs> Even a little Celeron will help. I remember back in the day, crunching SETI units at week per unit? Pathetic, but something better than nothing.

Forget the stats. Only crunch when you aren't working, whatever you can do. So little effort needed, and it might really help.
The only thing is that it's probably useless to run it on a low power machine, since there's a time limit on how long you have to finish each work unit.

From the F@H site:
Depending on the work unit, unfinished work units for most projects "expire" and are reassigned to new machines.
     
spathi
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Jan 6, 2004, 08:38 AM
 
Originally posted by saru boy:
The only thing is that it's probably useless to run it on a low power machine, since there's a time limit on how long you have to finish each work unit.

From the F@H site:
Depending on the work unit, unfinished work units for most projects "expire" and are reassigned to new machines.
True, although you do get quite a long time, if you look at the unitinfo.txt (located in ~/Library/Folding@home/) it tells you how long you have to complete the WU.

also from the FAQ:

How do you set the deadlines for the work units?

Each work unit is benchmarked on a dedicated 500 MHz Celeron machine without SSE/3DNow. We look at how many days it takes, and multiply this by 2.5. This corresponds to requiring such a machine to fold less than 10 hours a day in order to meet the deadline. From our experience, the majority of donor machines are faster than our benchmarking machine, and virtually none are slower, so this shouldn't be a problem (if a machine is slower, it may need to fold more hours a day). Occasionally, deadlines may be set longer than the above calculation indicates, but the reason for having deadlines at all is that the sooner we get back work units, the sooner we can put the results to good use. We are looking into, in the very near future, having the assignment server take machine speed into account in making assignments, thereby allowing slower machines to receive smaller work units.
17" PB /w 1 gig of ram
     
saru boy
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Jan 6, 2004, 10:18 AM
 
Yes, I know, I read the FAQ.

The machine in question is a 533mhz Celeron (running that bloated crap known as WinXP Pro). I can barely get it to run Outlook and Word at the same time, much less fold. I know the folding client is supposed to run in the background, but in practice it does slow the computer down, especially when there's not much juice to spare otherwise.

Bottom line is that I'm not gonna sacrifice work so I can engage in a hobby (albeit a very worthwhile one).
     
bimmerphile
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Jan 10, 2004, 01:45 PM
 
FYI, I'm in the process of adding 25 1.8 G5's, and about 20 eMac 800's...
-Kris Olson | 12" PBG4 1.5GHz
     
reader50
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Jan 10, 2004, 02:53 PM
 


This sounds dangerous. I trust the standard 5% are being added on my account?
     
Turias
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Jan 11, 2004, 02:20 PM
 
Originally posted by bimmerphile:
FYI, I'm in the process of adding 25 1.8 G5's, and about 20 eMac 800's...
Nice.
     
saru boy
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Jan 11, 2004, 09:35 PM
 
Originally posted by bimmerphile:
FYI, I'm in the process of adding 25 1.8 G5's, and about 20 eMac 800's...
Is it safe to assume that these aren't your own computers?
     
Link
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Jan 14, 2004, 07:48 PM
 
you got my attention -- g4's cranking em out
Aloha
     
Brien
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Jan 15, 2004, 11:11 AM
 
We need to take out Team Mac OS X and the Macrumors team...
     
Turias
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Jan 15, 2004, 11:33 AM
 
Originally posted by brien:
We need to take out Team Mac OS X and the Macrumors team...
We could totally do it. Just a little more power...

And if you guys are folding, now, you should join the race! The signup threads are all in the Team Forum.
     
bimmerphile
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Jan 21, 2004, 12:11 AM
 
I can add 35 1.8 G5's, and about 60 eMac 1GHz to the running, but I need to figure out how to get it to stick after reboot.

Whenever the comp gets rebooted, any saved files are lost (read: FAH client) and any cron settings are lost.

I can't stop by the lab and then jump around 95 computers...
-Kris Olson | 12" PBG4 1.5GHz
     
Scotttheking  (op)
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Jan 21, 2004, 01:29 AM
 
Do you have permission to run the client on the machines?
If so, and the admin has something setup to reimage the machines on boot you'll need to either get the client added to the images, or ask them for a way to work around it.
If you don't have permission, please do not run the client on the machines.

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bimmerphile
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Jan 21, 2004, 08:57 AM
 
Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Do you have permission to run the client on the machines?
If so, and the admin has something setup to reimage the machines on boot you'll need to either get the client added to the images, or ask them for a way to work around it.
If you don't have permission, please do not run the client on the machines.

--Scott
I do, but at the university, the guy who set up the macs worked for apple, and as such they have no resident mac guru, thus they have nobody that knows how to change/what the problem is.

I'm good friend's with the admin's son, and when I asked him about it, he was just glad they were going t be put to use.
-Kris Olson | 12" PBG4 1.5GHz
     
Turias
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Jan 21, 2004, 11:31 AM
 
Yeah, you'll have to figure out how to change the image that they are all built from.
     
Saddam H.
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Feb 1, 2004, 12:14 AM
 
Originally posted by bimmerphile:
I do, but at the university, the guy who set up the macs worked for apple, and as such they have no resident mac guru, thus they have nobody that knows how to change/what the problem is.

I'm good friend's with the admin's son, and when I asked him about it, he was just glad they were going t be put to use.
tread with care. Did you hear about the guy in GA who was arrested by some local dumbass cops b/c he allegedly broke some poorly-interpreted law by running these screensavers?
     
bimmerphile
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Feb 4, 2004, 01:50 AM
 
Originally posted by Saddam H.:
tread with care. Did you hear about the guy in GA who was arrested by some local dumbass cops b/c he allegedly broke some poorly-interpreted law by running these screensavers?
yeah i gave up on that. not enough time to figure it out.
-Kris Olson | 12" PBG4 1.5GHz
     
The Placid Casual
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Feb 10, 2004, 12:03 PM
 
Just saw the Team OS X recruitment drive over at AppleInsider...

Maybe we should branch outside of NN in our member recruiting?
     
Shaktai
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Feb 11, 2004, 06:24 AM
 
I previously ran Folding@home and D2OL (one of my favorites). Currently I am beta testing BOINC-SETI. BOINC (Berkely University) is a framework that while starting with SETI may also be used for other projects such as Folding@home and Climate Prediction. I am personally committed to helping to develop this leading edge framework/platform that will take distributed computing to the next level.

As to the profit issue. The reality is that sometime, somehow, somewhere, someone will profit from any effort. Even the most noble humanitarian projects will result in some profit somewhere. That is reality. The simple fact is that without our help, the end results will come at much higher cost, making them even more out of reach for the people who need them. What we are doing is ensuring that most of this work is in the public domain, enabling competion and keeping real world costs down.

Distributed Computing is very "leading edge" work. Folding@home, Distributed Folding, D2OL and yes even SETI are on the frontiers of Science. The work that we accomplish as volunteers, will ultimately form the foundation for future scientific efforts that will benefit all of humanity. In my fathers day, it was the amatuer radio operators who were driving the development of leading edge communications technologies that all people now benefit from. In our day it is distributed computing that is driving the development of new technologies in health, general science, ecology, mathematics and other areas. Even if we don't benefit directly, our children and grand children will.

More importantly for us now, we get to have fun doing it. It is a hobby that benefits humanity. Any of the projects that Team MacNN participates in are worthwhile, and there is something for everyone. My personal favorite is D2OL, but you can't go wrong with any of the active projects. (Ubero is in a kind of stasis right now due to no new work, but MacNN was once number one there).

If you don't mind being on the "bleeding edge" and can endure a bit of pain, suffering and frustration for the welfare of humanity, Beta testing things like BOINC can be fun too. You just have to accept that your losses, are someone elses eventual gain.

Of course it is fine to join Team MacNN, just to kick some Intel and AMD butt too. No harm done if we bruise Bill Gates ego a little. He is well paid for it.
     
Shaktai
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Feb 11, 2004, 06:31 AM
 
Originally posted by bimmerphile:
yeah i gave up on that. not enough time to figure it out.
Most likely, he was running them on someone else's computer(s) without permission.

Even a single old iMac can help, if that is all you have. Never know who will make the big discovery.
     
DrBoar
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Feb 16, 2004, 03:54 AM
 
Shaktai,
I run DC on any computer I can use, even low end things like a 7600/200 for DF But to take the low end lead so to speak I better dust of my 16 MHz LCII and install Net BSD and then run RC-72, I should be able to reach 2000keys per second or about 0.01% the speed of a G5
     
 
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