[TheMosco]

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...20040319XDG103

hopefully, its a lie...

[chabig]

I think it's too incredible to be true, and is a bluff. If all you have to do is go to the black market with $30 million, don't you think our intelligence services would have done it already? And even if they had one, it still takes a tremendous amount of expertise to maintain and operate it.

chris

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by TheMosco:
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...20040319XDG103

hopefully, its a lie...

well, even if true, you see the involvement of Pakistan, the Taliban, Asia...and Iraq? Iraq? Iraq? oh right.

[fizzlemynizzle]

They've made this claim before.

[coolmacdude]

Ayman al-Zawahri claimed that "smart briefcase bombs'' were available on the black market.

Of course they are, doesn't mean they are nuclear. Mr. Zawahri doesn't sound very scientifically literate.

Either this is a complete bluff, or someone scored a cool $30 mil by selling a fake nuke to them.

[James Christ]

And all topped off with an ad for The Sharon Osbourne Show.

Amazing world we live in. Consume, make money for people who live in bunkers, then watch your life get blown away by a terrorist angry at the guy in the bunker who made money off the people who got blown away and more money buying shares in companies that profit from the war against terror and then funded the next banana dictator who then becomes the next terrorist 20 years down the line.

[thunderous_funker]

I guess we'd better surrender.

Or repeal the Constitution.

Or declare Bush Caesar for Life.

Or all of the above.

[fizzlemynizzle]

If it were up to Democrats they'd try to outlaw briefcases.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by fizzlemynizzle:
If it were up to Democrats they'd try to outlaw briefcases.

Fact-based as usual. Allow me to retort.

Edwards, Dean, and Kerry on Non-Proliferation
by Joseph Cirincione and Marshall Breit
Thursday, December 18, 2003

On December 15, Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards presented a comprehensive plan to combat the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Edwards' policy establishes new standards and safeguards to stop the spread of unconventional weapons, gives the international community new tools to punish nations that violate these standards, and improves America's ability to become an international leader in this effort. Governor Howard Dean and Senator John Kerry also recently advanced strong, new proposals. Below, we summarize each of the three initiatives, and we will track all of the candidates' positions though the campaign.

Senator Edwards
Edwards' speech was the most comprehensive and far-reaching of three proposals. He offered a five-part strategy designed to bolster the Non-Proliferation Treaty. His plan includes:

1.) Creating A New Global Nuclear Compact
Within six months of assuming the presidency, Senator Edwards' would convene leading nations to develop a new compact that would reinforce the NPT. This compact would heighten security for existing nuclear facilities and materials; ensure more frequent verification that nuclear facilities are not being misused; authorize international inspectors to mount no-notice challenge inspections in countries that have a record of non-compliance; set specific limitations on the capability of nations to produce nuclear materials and increase the international community's role in providing nuclear fuels for peaceful programs; and authorize strong, immediate multilateral penalties aimed specifically at the military capabilities of any nation that quits the NPT. Edwards said:


"Right now it is too easy for a country to cheat or use a legal civilian power program as the jumping off point for an illegal military one; by withdrawing from the Treaty on short notice and having a weapons capability within months. We cannot accept the false choice between the administration's dangerous doctrine of preemption and a multilateral regime that isn't up to the current challenge. That is why I will create a Global Nuclear Compact to reinforce the NPT. The Compact will close the loophole that allows civilian nuclear programs to go military. We must reinforce the NPT by creating a Global Nuclear Compact to meet the needs of our times-keeping the capabilities and materials required to make the world's worst weapons out of the wrong hands."

2.) Triple Funding for Nunn-Lugar Programs
Edwards would secure and eliminate former Soviet weapons by the end of the decade by tripling funding for Cooperative Threat Reduction programs (CTR). Edwards plans to fund this increase by canceling the Bush Administration's plans for new nuclear weapons and cutting spending on the national missile defense program. He also intends to fully implement the G-8 Agreement reached last year and expand CTR programs beyond the former Soviet Union - to countries like India and Pakistan.

3.) Create International Norms Against Nations that Violate Non-Proliferation Agreements
Edwards proposes ending the North Korean nuclear program and preventing other states from developing or acquiring nuclear weapons, working through the United Nations Security Council and using other mechanisms to establish international norms that treat countries that violate non-proliferation treaties, as criminals.

4.) Improve Intelligence Capabilities to Understand and Respond to WMD
According to Edwards, the "intelligence failure" in Iraq and the September 11 attacks highlight the urgent need to improve domestic intelligence capabilities. He plans to create a new agency to combat terrorism and reform both technical and human intelligence related weapons of mass destruction.

5.) Appoint a High-Level Non-Proliferation Director
This official would bring focus and energy to national non-proliferation efforts and consolidate the work that currently takes place under six different agencies.

Dean's Prescription
Governor Howard Dean unveiled several non-proliferation initiatives in his December 15 foreign policy speech. Dean plans to expand and globalize the Nunn-Lugar Program with the assistance of other countries. Under his proposal, the U.S. and our allies would triple current contributions to CTR programs, bringing the total to $60 billion over the next 10 years. Dean said:

"Our global alliance will place its strongest emphasis on this most lethal form of terror. We will advance a global effort to secure the weapons and technologies of mass destruction on a worldwide basis. To do so, we will build on the efforts of former Senator Sam Nunn and Senator Richard Lugar. The Nunn-Lugar program has been critical to securing the vast nuclear, chemical, and biological material inventory left over from the Soviet Union. Incredibly, despite the threat that the nexus of terrorism and technology of mass destruction poses, despite the heightened challenges posed by 9-11, the current administration has failed to increase funding for these efforts to secure dangerous weapons. I know that expanding and strengthening Nunn-Lugar is essential to defending America, and I will make that a priority from my first day as President.

Our new alliance will call upon all nations to work together to identify and control or eliminate unsafeguarded components -- or potential components -- of nuclear, chemical and biological arms around the world. These include the waste products and fuel of nuclear energy and research reactors, the pathogens developed for scientific purposes, and the chemical agents used for commercial ends. Such materials are present in dozens of countries -- and often stored with little if any security or oversight.

I will recruit every nation that can contribute and mobilize cooperation in every arena -- from compiling inventories to safeguarding transportation; from creating units specially-trained to handle terrorist situations involving lethal substances to ensuring global public health cooperation against biological terror."


Kerry Seals the Ports
Senator John Kerry's plan is designed to improve port security and prevent terrorists from obtaining weapons of mass destruction. In a speech on December 17, Kerry said:

"As President, I will tackle this issue head-on by removing potential bomb- making entirely from the world's most vulnerable sites with in four years. We will work with other countries to track down and secure existing nuclear weapons and stop the development of chemical and biological arsenals. And we will start a global effort to remove weapons-usable materials from the more than 100 insecure civilian plants around the world that still use this kind of material. And I will appoint a top-level coordinator whose job is to make sure this gets done."


Kerry's initiative to combat proliferation includes:

1.) Appoint A Presidential Coordinator to Secure Nuclear Weapons and Materials Around the World

2.) Establish A Global Security Standard for Nuclear Weapons
Through U.S. diplomacy and economic tools, Senator Kerry plans to create a global standard for the security of nuclear weapons and material. Under his plan, the U.S. with our allies, would offer assistance to other countries to meet this standard.

3.) Secure the World's Most Vulnerable Nuclear Sites in Four Years
Under this initiative, nuclear material would be removed from the world's most vulnerable sites within four years. An international protocol would be established to track and account for existing weapons.

4.) Create U.S.-Russian Commitment to Secure Russia Nuclear Weapons
Kerry's proposal calls for a U.S. and Russia to sign a bilateral agreement guaranteeing that all of Russia's nuclear weapons and materials are adequately secured within four years.

5.) End U.S. Efforts to Build New Nuclear Weapons
Kerry plans to immediately end the current administration's efforts to develop new nuclear weapons. He believes that these efforts run contrary to the international non-proliferation regime.

Senator Kerry has a seven-part plan to improve port security. Senator Kerry said:


"Even though there is a very real threat of nuclear and biological weapons in any one of the millions of containers which come into this country every year, there is no global system for tracking and security. We have affordable, existing technology that could allow sensors to be placed on containers which could track their position, signal when and where they were entered, and detect whether they contain radioactive or dangerous chemicals. As President, I would move immediately to protect American ports and the Americans who live near them by putting such a system in place."

[fizzlemynizzle]

you can't stuff a genie back into the bottle no matter how much money you spend.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by fizzlemynizzle:
you can't stuff a genie back into the bottle no matter how much money you spend.

Then we're doomed, DOOMED!

At least they are talking concrete steps instead of empty platitudes about "ending evil".

Its a complex problem so I'll forgive Bush for perhaps not having a clear strategy just yet. In the interest of cooperation, I'll give him the first step:

Stop pouring money into dicatorships in central asia that are at the forefront of WMD proliferation.