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shifuimam · Apr 27, 2009, 03:40 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...27-709022.html

That's too bad...the only American car I've owned was a 2000 Grand Prix GT...I loved that thing.

sek929 · Apr 27, 2009, 03:52 PM

Ugly cars, good engines, terrible interior build quality.

Dakar V · Apr 27, 2009, 03:56 PM

Other than K.I.T.T. I don't think there was ever a car of theirs I wanted.

I also found their names terrible... Firebird, Sunbird, Sunfire...

Laminar · Apr 27, 2009, 04:03 PM

Goodnight, sweet prince.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 27, 2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

I also found their names terrible... Firebird, Sunbird, Sunfire...

At least they were consistent.

Dakar V · Apr 27, 2009, 04:11 PM

That's what was so pathetic

WE LIKE NAMING CARS HOT THINGS

shifuimam · Apr 27, 2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Ugly cars, good engines, terrible interior build quality.

I will grant that the interior of my GP left a lot to be desired.

I liked the look of the car. It handled amazingly well, had a kickass engine, and was so fun to drive.

I miss my Grand Prix. I sold it because it was starting to have enough mechanical problems (at 151k miles) that it wasn't worth keeping. I like my '06 Tuscon, but it's just not the same.

I can't wait to get a sports car again.

sek929 · Apr 27, 2009, 04:17 PM

It was the best looking of that era of Pontiacs, I'll certainly give you that. Especially when it went up against the ghastly Grand Am. To this day I think the 3.8 is one of the smoothest-running, longest lasting V6s ever created...and it had balls too.

Dakar V · Apr 27, 2009, 04:19 PM

And we know how much you love balls.

sek929 · Apr 27, 2009, 04:21 PM

I have truck nutz hanging from my iMac as we speak.

Laminar · Apr 27, 2009, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I can't wait to get a sports car again.

Again?

Dakar V · Apr 27, 2009, 04:22 PM

*giggle*

Oisín · Apr 27, 2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

And we know how much you love balls.

Huh, I didn’t even know I’d already posted in this thread …

Originally Posted by Laminar

WTF is that?

*vomit*

Dakar V · Apr 27, 2009, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Oisín

Huh, I didn’t even know I’d already posted in this thread …

I posted twice before that.

But your joke is still lame.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 27, 2009, 04:29 PM

All the Aztek needs is a little imagination:

Laminar · Apr 27, 2009, 04:31 PM

[/bad apostrophe]

Gavin · Apr 27, 2009, 04:33 PM

I always thought they were ugly. Every single model.

With the notable exception of the Solstice, which is cool.

Laminar · Apr 27, 2009, 05:27 PM

And even then, I like the Saturn Sky better.

Besides the G8, Pontiac doesn't really have any unique cars in the US - you can get any Pontiac as a Chevy or Saturn. And even the G8 is just an Australian model with a facelift.

Kind of like Ford and Mercury. And with the 2010 Taurus, I don't believe there will be a Sable. Mercury really doesn't have any reason to exist.

Laminar · 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

It handled amazingly well

Compared to what? The '99 GTP only pulled 0.77g on the skidpad. That's absolutely laughable. On stock tires, an SVT Contour pulls 0.90g. 0.77g is Buick Century territory. You're closer in handling to a Ford Explorer than you are to my car.

had a kickass engine

Compared to what?

and was so fun to drive.

Compared to what?

scottiB · Apr 27, 2009, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Compared to what?

Compared to what?

Compared to what?

What she's driven up to that point, I would assume.

starman · Apr 27, 2009, 06:01 PM

John DeLorean's rolling in his grave.

shifuimam · Apr 27, 2009, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gavin

I always thought they were ugly. Every single model.

With the notable exception of the Solstice, which is cool.

The Solstice is possibly my favorite roadster, in terms of body styling. It's damn sexy.

shifuimam · Apr 27, 2009, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Compared to what?

Compared to your mom - that woman does NOT know how to work a vibrator!

Also: settle down, Laminar. Nobody is challenging your car-penis.

Oisín · Apr 27, 2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

I posted twice before that.

But your joke is still lame.

Not yours, the one you were replying to.

OldManMac · Apr 27, 2009, 07:08 PM

All of GM is next.

ghporter · Apr 27, 2009, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Gavin

With the notable exception of the Solstice, which is cool.

Originally Posted by Laminar

And even then, I like the Saturn Sky better.

"Toe MAY toe - Toe Mah toe". I like 'em both, but the nose and tail of the Solstice look better to me. And at least they built a roadster. What other US companies have done that?

Andy8 · Apr 27, 2009, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

All of GM is next.

Exactly.

dzp111 · Apr 27, 2009, 08:20 PM

In the last 15 years or so I've owned a Grand Prix, a Sunfire and a Cavalier. Not that I was a Pontiac freak, it's just that each time, the price was right. I drove those cars like dune-buggies, I mean I was really rough on them (here in the north, jumping snowbanks is a quasi sport and I've jumped many many). As far as my experience, they (my Pontiacs), were pretty tough and handled abuse well.

Last year (again because the price was right), my wife bought a 2003 Aztec. It was so cheap that she could afford an extended warranty. Sure enough, it's in the garage for the second time now for engine work. We figure that by the time the warranty's over (3 more years), she'll probably end up with a brand new engine. And yes folks -it's an ugly thing the Aztec is, but she loves it. To each his/her own I guess. Maybe I'm ugly too.

: )

turtle777 · Apr 27, 2009, 08:23 PM

Pff, I'm already NOT missing them.

-t

dzp111 · Apr 27, 2009, 08:25 PM

What I don't get is why GM is keeping the high end costly cars like Cadillac, Buick, Silverado's, etc.?

SSharon · Apr 27, 2009, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

And at least they built a roadster. What other US companies have done that?

Does this one count?
http://www.teslamotors.com

turtle777 · Apr 27, 2009, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by dzp111

What I don't get is why GM is keeping the high end costly cars like Cadillac, Buick, Silverado's, etc.?

Better profit margins.

-t

Andy8 · Apr 27, 2009, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Better profit margins.

-t

Assuming they actually make a profit one day

sek929 · Apr 27, 2009, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by dzp111

In the last 15 years or so I've owned a Grand Prix, a Sunfire and a Cavalier. Not that I was a Pontiac freak, it's just that each time, the price was right. I drove those cars like dune-buggies, I mean I was really rough on them (here in the north, jumping snowbanks is a quasi sport and I've jumped many many). As far as my experience, they (my Pontiacs), were pretty tough and handled abuse well.

Technically the Sunfire and Cavalier are the exact same car but yeah, they're cheap reliable people movers. Here's the hook, most any car on the road today is by nature incredibly reliable, there's no reason any new vehicle won't last 200K+ miles. I've seen Sunfires with 200K miles, I've also seen a Cavalier with 40K miles break down about a dozen times. Both cars (Sunfire, Cavalier) are horrible to drive though, they feel very lightweight and chintzy at highway speeds.

Originally Posted by dzp111

What I don't get is why GM is keeping the high end costly cars like Cadillac, Buick, Silverado's, etc.?

Cadillac is the only GM spin-off worth keeping. GMC is another story, correct me if I'm wrong, but certain heavy-duty truck models aren't available as Chevys, like the 6000 and up.

Laminar · Apr 28, 2009, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Also: settle down, Laminar. Nobody is challenging your car-penis.

BETTER not be.

Originally Posted by ghporter

"Toe MAY toe - Toe Mah toe". I like 'em both, but the nose and tail of the Solstice look better to me. And at least they built a roadster. What other US companies have done that?

Does the Chrysler Crossfire count? And Ford did hold a 30% stake in Mazda, so the Miata should kind of count.

Originally Posted by dzp111

What I don't get is why GM is keeping the high end costly cars like Cadillac, Buick, Silverado's, etc.?

This is like saying that Apple should drop the MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, and Mac Pro, and only sell the Mini.

CreepDogg · Apr 28, 2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

I also found their names terrible... Firebird, Sunbird, Sunfire...

Don't forget Fiero...

Gavin · Apr 28, 2009, 05:51 AM

Wasn't the Chrysler Crossfire really a mercedes?

They won't drop Buick - for some reason they sell well in Asia.

Goldfinger · Apr 28, 2009, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Gavin

Wasn't the Chrysler Crossfire really a mercedes?

Same platform as the previous gen Mercedes SLK.

thevelourfog · Apr 28, 2009, 07:26 AM

In China, the BUICK equates to LUXURY... there BUICK screams class. Go figure.?

Oisín · Apr 28, 2009, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by thevelourfog

In China, the BUICK equates to LUXURY... there BUICK screams class. Go figure.?

To be fair, the standard competition in China (except for the nouveau riche) is the Xiali, by whose standards a Buick is pure class and luxury.

Spheric Harlot · Apr 28, 2009, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Compared to what? The '99 GTP only pulled 0.77g on the skidpad. That's absolutely laughable. On stock tires, an SVT Contour pulls 0.90g. 0.77g is Buick Century territory. You're closer in handling to a Ford Explorer than you are to my car.

I thought straight-line speed was generally the OPPOSITE of handling.

I.e. the better a car is optimized for straight-line optimization, the worse it actually handles.

At least, U.S. cars generally seem to corner like shoeboxes on a pogo stick.

ghporter · Apr 28, 2009, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by SSharon

Does this one count?
http://www.teslamotors.com

Sort of. The Tesla is a great little roadster, but it's built with Lotus parts, and a regular Lotus is more affordable.

Just a moment while I bask in the glow of "the Lotus is more affordable..."

Ah. That was nice. Now, where was I? Oh yeah...

Comparatively speaking though, the Tesla isn't in the same league as the Solstice/Sky. The Solstice and Sky compete against the Miata (or whatever they're calling it now) and the S2000, NOT any Lotus or Lotus-like product.

Oisín · Apr 28, 2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

At least, U.S. cars generally seem to corner like shoeboxes on a pogo stick.

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a shoebox on a pogo stick cornering—how does it fare?

Dakar V · Apr 28, 2009, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by CreepDogg

Don't forget Fiero...

That contains neither the word fire nor bird.

But yeah, similar.

Laminar · Apr 28, 2009, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

I thought straight-line speed was generally the OPPOSITE of handling.

I.e. the better a car is optimized for straight-line optimization, the worse it actually handles.

At least, U.S. cars generally seem to corner like shoeboxes on a pogo stick.

Who said anything about straight line speed? Not me.

osiris · Apr 28, 2009, 09:48 AM

Sayonara, Pontiac. I never had a desire to own or drive anything recently made by you.

Dakar V · Apr 28, 2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by osiris

Sayonara, Pontiac. I never had a desire to own or drive anything recently made by you.

Conformist.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 28, 2009, 09:52 AM

osiris · Apr 28, 2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Conformist.

yeah, but I'm an independent conformist.

ghporter · Apr 28, 2009, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

At least, U.S. cars generally seem to corner like shoeboxes on a pogo stick.

That's a pretty broad generalization. The Mustang is considered an American car, right? The stock Mustang corners really well. So, for that matter, does the Corvette. My Dad's Taurus corners well too. Cornering is often messed up by drivers who don't understand how to do it; most overcontrol but many UNDER control. I really get a kick out of how very many drivers countersteer their 4-wheel vehicles because they just can't get the whole "get to the right speed for the turn you're going to make" thing. It's silly.

Originally Posted by Oisín

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a shoebox on a pogo stick cornering—how does it fare?

Shoeboxes do horribly on pogo sticks because they lack both hands to hold on with and feet to propel the stick.