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brachiator · Jun 18, 2004, 10:29 PM

Anyone hear of an OSX (or even other *NIX) way to POP a Gmail account?

There's a Windows app called POP goes the Gmail... just wondering if anyone's heard of work on our side of the house.

Thanks!

[APi]TheMan · Jun 18, 2004, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by brachiator:
Anyone hear of an OSX (or even other *NIX) way to POP a Gmail account?

There's a Windows app called POP goes the Gmail... just wondering if anyone's heard of work on our side of the house.

From here on Gmail's help page:

Does Gmail support automatic forwarding and POP3 access?
Not at the moment, but Google believes in helping people access information whenever and however they want to do so. In the future you will be able to access Gmail messages from non-Gmail accounts for free or at a nominal fee.

So I don't know how those Windows kids are doing it, but I haven't heard of any solutions for POP access to gmail on Mac OS X yet.

brachiator · Jun 19, 2004, 12:31 AM

Yeah, I am hoping that Gmail offers something POPpy once it goes public...

Sounds from the forum on the PGTGM site that it is using the .NET protocols (although I don't know enough about .NET (okay, nothing about it) to know what the ramifications of that are).

But there is talk of release of the source code and a port to Linux and perhaps Mac...

Stradlater · Jun 19, 2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
So I don't know how those Windows kids are doing it, but I haven't heard of any solutions for POP access to gmail on Mac OS X yet.

Maybe in a way similar to the httpmail.plugin for Mail.app (that retrieves Hotmail emails, I think).

Millennium · Jun 20, 2004, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Maybe in a way similar to the httpmail.plugin for Mail.app (that retrieves Hotmail emails, I think).

This is my guess. Most likely it's a POP proxy that gets messages by scraping the GMail screen.

Synotic · Jun 20, 2004, 04:24 PM

Pop Goes the Gmail is a program that sits between the http://gmail.com web server and your email client, converting messages from web format into POP3 format that a program such as Outlook Express or Thunderbird can understand.

natan · Jun 20, 2004, 11:34 PM

Check out an OSX app I just finished today, gCount. It puts a menubar count of your unread messages of a new popular email service

Grab it at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~natan/gCount01.dmg.gz

Keep in mind it's a 0.1 release, a lot more polish is coming in the next few days/weeks.

brachiator · Jun 21, 2004, 02:09 AM

That is great, Natan -- thanks! Keychain, yes, definitely. Now, do you see this app as growing into a way to POP the account, or just remain as a flag service?

Mike

brachiator · Jun 21, 2004, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
This is my guess. Most likely it's a POP proxy that gets messages by scraping the GMail screen.

Millenium, what do you mean by "scraping" the screen?

Also, I know nothing about the httpmail.plugin, but if it is already built for Hotmail, how difficult would it be to rejigger that plugin for Gmail? (I mean, not rejiggerd by a schmendrick like me, but someone who knew how to code...

)

natan · Jun 21, 2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by brachiator:
That is great, Natan -- thanks! Keychain, yes, definitely. Now, do you see this app as growing into a way to POP the account, or just remain as a flag service?

Mike

At least for the next few weeks, gCount will remain a flag service. If someone wants to work with me on POP'ing the account, I might be willing to give it a try, but keep in mind that Google has already mentioned that it will be a feature in the future.

gorickey · Jun 21, 2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by natan:
At least for the next few weeks, gCount will remain a flag service. If someone wants to work with me on POP'ing the account, I might be willing to give it a try, but keep in mind that Google has already mentioned that it will be a feature in the future.

Good start/work natan, hopefully somebody can help you "POP" the account...

frates · Jun 21, 2004, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by natan:
Check out an OSX app I just finished today, gCount.

thanks a lot !

waffffffle · Jun 21, 2004, 06:59 PM

Can any current Gmail user invite other users? If so, can someone invite me? I really want to try Gmail.

MacGorilla · Jun 21, 2004, 10:00 PM

Awesome work! I tried this when it first appeared on Version Tracker.

OptimusG4 · Jun 21, 2004, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by waffffffle:
Can any current Gmail user invite other users? If so, can someone invite me? I really want to try Gmail.

there's a huge topic in the lounge for this...

brachiator · Jun 22, 2004, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by natan:
At least for the next few weeks, gCount will remain a flag service. If someone wants to work with me on POP'ing the account, I might be willing to give it a try, but keep in mind that Google has already mentioned that it will be a feature in the future.

Either way, it's a cool app. Thanks. Go Bears!

natan · 05:42 AM

Originally posted by brachiator:
Either way, it's a cool app. Thanks. Go Bears!

Thanks!

On a related note, I just released version 0.2, with a number of features, including fixing a large memory leak. Check it out at http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/15238

frates · Jun 23, 2004, 09:37 AM

that is great ! great pace for updates

Mediaman_12 · Jun 23, 2004, 11:12 AM

I don't see the benifit of Gmail over my regular POP mail account anyway, most of the 'innovative' features of Gmail seam to be covered by a combination of a broardband connection and Apples mail.app with it's fast 'filter' search and auto message threading.

Turias · 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
I don't see the benifit of Gmail over my regular POP mail account anyway, most of the 'innovative' features of Gmail seam to be covered by a combination of a broardband connection and Apples mail.app with it's fast 'filter' search and auto message threading.

My problems with Mail.app:

1) Bad threading. It often places messages in threads that have nothing to do with one another. Bad Mail.app!
2) I've really grown to love "labels" and the Google search feature. I used to create a folder for each person I know and place them all on my hard drive to archive. This created some problems. For one, it doesn't seem to be easy to search cross folders. I have to pick one folder and search inside of it. Also, message threads would often get trashed since more than one person would participate in any given thread. I never found a good way of archiving these discussions since I would either have to place them in a catch-all folder or break up the discussion into pieces depending on who wrote which e-mail.

I used to hate them, but after using them for a week, labels are great!

Also, the speed at which I can label/archive messages is so much faster than what I used to do to get the same functionality on Mail.app.

Once Gmail allows POP/IMAP, it'll be great!

Millennium · Jun 23, 2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by brachiator:
Millenium, what do you mean by "scraping" the screen?

"Screen-scraping" is actually a misnomer (since it implies using the actual screen) but it's the common term for it. Anyway, screen-scraping in this case involves running out to the GMail server, getting the HTML which contains the list of messages, and extracting each message from that list. Then, when the user goes for a particular message, the screen-scraper has to go get the HTML and extract the message from it.

It's a really dirty hack, and any changes the site owner makes to their HTML code stands a chance of breaking screen-scrapers. However, it can get the job done. The httpmail plugin for mail.app does this already for Hotmail; GMail should theoretically be able to do somethign similar.

itai195 · Jun 23, 2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Turias:
I used to hate them, but after using them for a week, labels are great!

Also, the speed at which I can label/archive messages is so much faster than what I used to do to get the same functionality on Mail.app.

Once Gmail allows POP/IMAP, it'll be great!

Mwahaha, I knew you'd come around on labels

I agree with your comments. Mail.app will often thread unrelated messages into a conversation. And what's worse, IMO, is that it's just plain SLOW for accessing different messages within a thread. GMail's interface is better. Additionally, GMail is FAST, which I really appreciate. For webmail, it's faster than any mail client I've used on a Mac or PC, let alone faster than any other webmail service I've used.

I'd love to see Google provide POP access, but I wonder if they'll have to develop their own client so they can still display ads.

Turias · Jun 23, 2004, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
Mwahaha, I knew you'd come around on labels

Damn you for being right!

natan · Jun 23, 2004, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
I'd love to see Google provide POP access, but I wonder if they'll have to develop their own client so they can still display ads.

I imagine that they will provide POP or IMAP access, they've already alluded to the fact that they will provide it (either for free or a small charge). I could see them sticking the ad text below the signature when the mail is accessed through POP or IMAP.

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 23, 2004, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
Additionally, GMail is FAST, which I really appreciate. For webmail, it's faster than any mail client I've used on a Mac or PC, let alone faster than any other webmail service I've used.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, GMail is fast because there are very few people using it right now since it's in beta testing? And that once a huge amount of people sign up and start using it, it'll get slower?

Turias · Jun 23, 2004, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, GMail is fast because there are very few people using it right now since it's in beta testing? And that once a huge amount of people sign up and start using it, it'll get slower?

Errr, look at how fast Google is...

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 23, 2004, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Turias:
Errr, look at how fast Google is...

Google and GMail may be from the same people...but Google is a search engine and GMail is a mail server. Not. The. Same. Thing.

Turias · Jun 23, 2004, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Google and GMail may be from the same people...but Google is a search engine and GMail is a mail server. Not. The. Same. Thing.

Of course not. But both are quite complex. Heck, a search engine is much more computationally expensive that an e-mail server. Because of this, we should be able to assume that computationally, with respect to Google Search, GMail will be fast. The people over at Google are not morons.

And as far as network time is concerned, do you even have a GMail account? If so, take a look at how it is architectured with respect to the amount of traffic sent back and forth before you make assumptions. There is an incredibly small footprint. It's very slick and quite impressive.

The one thing that could possibly make it slow would just be the sheer number of people checking their mail. But Google's traffic is through the roof. They know how to deal with high network load.

itai195 · Jun 23, 2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, GMail is fast because there are very few people using it right now since it's in beta testing? And that once a huge amount of people sign up and start using it, it'll get slower?

Yup, I have thought about that. But we won't know for sure until it goes public. I'd imagine they don't have much fewer users in beta than Apple has for .mac webmail.

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 23, 2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Turias:
Of course not. But both are quite complex. Heck, a search engine is much more computationally expensive that an e-mail server. Because of this, we should be able to assume that computationally, with respect to Google Search, GMail will be fast. The people over at Google are not morons.

And as far as network time is concerned, do you even have a GMail account? If so, take a look at how it is architectured with respect to the amount of traffic sent back and forth before you make assumptions. There is an incredibly small footprint. It's very slick and quite impressive.

The one thing that could possibly make it slow would just be the sheer number of people checking their mail. But Google's traffic is through the roof. They know how to deal with high network load.

I suppose...we'll know for sure when GMail gets a large amount of users. I'm for sure getting an account no matter what...just so I can retire my godforsaken Hotmail account (well...retire as in it'll become my spam and forced-newsletter account.)

KrazyEvilGoat · Jun 23, 2004, 10:44 PM

Natan, your app just caused me to be able to connect to the internet.. but nothing worked.

And yes, I am pretty sure it was your app.

natan · Jun 24, 2004, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by KrazyEvilGoat:
Natan, your app just caused me to be able to connect to the internet.. but nothing worked.

And yes, I am pretty sure it was your app.

Yeah, I forgot to add in code that checks whether or not you are online before it updates. This means that regardless of whether or not you are connected to the internet, it still attempts to update, which would initiate an internet connection. Unfortunately, until I fix this bug (in v0.3), the only option is to quit gCount while you are not connected to the internet. I'm sorry about that.

TimmyDee51 · Jun 24, 2004, 12:15 PM

This may be a bit off topic, but why doesn't Gmail or anyone else for that matter offer IMAP instead/in addition to POP? Gmail's awesome, but the 1 GB limit is great. Downloading those to your localhost is somewhat defeating in my mind. I used to be a POP person, but now I have the zeal of the reformed!

Timo · Jun 24, 2004, 01:11 PM

fastmail.fm offers IMAP, for example.

natan · Jun 24, 2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by TimmyDee51:
This may be a bit off topic, but why doesn't Gmail or anyone else for that matter offer IMAP instead/in addition to POP? Gmail's awesome, but the 1 GB limit is great. Downloading those to your localhost is somewhat defeating in my mind. I used to be a POP person, but now I have the zeal of the reformed!

They will:

Does Gmail support automatic forwarding and POP3 access?

Not at the moment, but Google believes in helping people access information whenever and however they want to do so. In the future you will be able to access Gmail messages from non-Gmail accounts for free or at a nominal fee.

TimmyDee51 · Jun 24, 2004, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by natan:
They will:

I guess I don't see where the IMAP part is stated. Does automatic forwarding mean something other than what it obviously appears?

natan · Jun 24, 2004, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by TimmyDee51:
I guess I don't see where the IMAP part is stated. Does automatic forwarding mean something other than what it obviously appears?

Oh, nobody knows for sure yet how they will offer access. I'd also rather have IMAP. *shrug*

philm · Jun 24, 2004, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Turias:
My problems with Mail.app:

2) ......For one, it doesn't seem to be easy to search cross folders. I have to pick one folder and search inside of it.

In Mail.app, you can select multiple folders from your list of folders and do one search within many folders.

Turias · Jun 24, 2004, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by philm:
In Mail.app, you can select multiple folders from your list of folders and do one search within many folders.

Right, but let's say I have a hierarchy of folders like the following:

Code:
            A
       B  C  D  E
      F G       H I

I want to be able to search in every folder under A. I can't, short of opening up A and highlighting every folder under it.

MrBS · Jun 24, 2004, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, GMail is fast because there are very few people using it right now since it's in beta testing? And that once a huge amount of people sign up and start using it, it'll get slower?

Well I'd be happy if mail.app (with one user) was as fast as gmail.
~BS

wataru · Jun 24, 2004, 07:01 PM

How about just searching in all mailboxes?

brachiator · Jun 24, 2004, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by TimmyDee51:
This may be a bit off topic, but why doesn't Gmail or anyone else for that matter offer IMAP instead/in addition to POP? Gmail's awesome, but the 1 GB limit is great. Downloading those to your localhost is somewhat defeating in my mind. I used to be a POP person, but now I have the zeal of the reformed!

My rationale for POP access is that I archive my e-mails. I've been doing this since 2001 and now have about half a Gig. So while the 1GB account is great (and my Yahoo! Mail Plus just got boosted to 2GB)it would at that pace nevertheless only last me for approx. 6 years unless I changed my archiving habits.

So, even though I like Gmail's interface better than Apple Mail's, I would like to be able to POP -- even for a small fee -- to keep up my archiving.

On a separate note, am I missing something about how to use the threaded view in Apple Mail, or does it truly only display in a thread only the thread's e-mails that are in the particular mailbox one has open? That is, if viewing threads in the Inbox, it doesn't include your replies on-thread, which are in the Sent Box...

Another separate note -- Thanks for the screen scraping explan., Millenium!

Mike

Turias · Jun 25, 2004, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
How about just searching in all mailboxes?

That works, but I have a lot of folders and a ton of mail. This makes searching in all mailboxes take a long time. There's no reason that selecting a single folder shouldn't allow you to search inside it and all subfolders.

natan · Jun 30, 2004, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by brachiator:
That is great, Natan -- thanks! Keychain, yes, definitely. Now, do you see this app as growing into a way to POP the account, or just remain as a flag service?

Mike

Among other features, Keychain supported was added with v0.3, released two nights ago. Check out the gCount site to download it.

brachiator · Jul 1, 2004, 10:54 PM

Dig it! Thanks, Natan.

dab007 · Jul 2, 2004, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by natan:
Among other features, Keychain supported was added with v0.3, released two nights ago. Check out the gCount site to download it.

I would like to start off by saying great job on gcount. One feature that I would like to see is multi-able account access.

Dex13 · Jul 21, 2004, 08:43 PM

any new news?

natan · Aug 8, 2004, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Dex13:
any new news?

Today I just pieced together a slow, working solution. I need to put a lot of work into it, optimize it, and roll it into gCount. Hopefully this won't take too long.

On a side note, look for gCount v0.4 later tonight.

gorickey · Aug 8, 2004, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by natan:
Today I just pieced together a slow, working solution.

Of what? A plugin for Mail.app to POP Gmail?

natan · Aug 8, 2004, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Of what? A plugin for Mail.app to POP Gmail?

No, at least not yet. A script that downloads all messages from Gmail and acts as a POP server for them. I'll look into how Mail.app bundles work, it would be cool if I could package it all into a plugin.