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brassplayersrock² · Jun 27, 2009, 07:27 AM

What I really want to know is this:

when paramedics gave him cpr, did his nose come off?

RIP MJ

Kerrigan · Jun 28, 2009, 02:17 AM

I'm somewhat surprised that his death has not started a discussion about his homosexuality. The public has been so obsessed with the false allegations of pedophilia that they overlooked one of the defining features of his life: the way he was forced to stay in the closet by his family, his religion, the (black) entertainment industry, and society in general.

OldManMac · Jun 28, 2009, 09:23 AM

A more realistic, and IMO, proper perspective.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009062...+we+view+Jacko

Mrjinglesusa · Jun 28, 2009, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

A more realistic, and IMO, proper perspective.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009062...+we+view+Jacko

Amen.

The media coverage of his death is nothing short of disgusting. Did he have a major impact on music, perhaps the greatest impact of any other person in history? Of course he did.

But he was also a deeply disturbed person, who thought it was OK for him to sleep with other people's children in his bed and give them alcohol, or "Jesus Juice" as he called it (whether he molested them is I guess subject to debate), who had so much plastic surgery he looked nothing like the person who became a global Pop Icon, who was up to his ears in debt, who dangled his child over a balcony, and who hadn't been significant in the entertainment industry in over 20 years.

It's one thing to recognize the influence and impact he had on the music and entertainment industry, it's quite another to hold him as a God-like figure who could do no wrong because he was "Michael Jackson".

There will never be another Michael Jackson, and in my opinion, that's a GOOD thing.

Phileas · Jun 28, 2009, 10:33 AM

A friend of mine said it really well. He told me how he was watching MJ on a talk show when all the child abuse allegations first hit and how the presenter went out of his way to make him look a freak. And then Jackson sat down on the piano and played a snippet of a song he was working on and my buddy said his jaw just dropped and he thought, yep, here's the king on pop music.

ghporter · Jun 28, 2009, 11:42 AM

Once again, The Free Press comes up with a very good take on a very controversial subject. Michael was indeed controversial, and a lot of that comes from the isolation from "our world" that Albom describes in his column. But what Albom doesn't really touch on is how Michael was never prepared to be part of "our world." Controlling, manipulative parents, amazing artistic success and the accompanying monetary success, a life lived in the spotlight as a child, all conspired to keep Michael from growing up.

Is a person who never really becomes a functional adult in social situations "disturbed" or merely dysfunctional? Among pre-adolescent children, "sleepovers" are both common and condoned-and what age was Michael when he became a "phenomenon?" When did he stop progressing in a typical person's timeline of social development? Giving children alcohol? What pre-adolescent child with access to his parent's liquor cabinet hasn't at least been temped to try that stuff, or share it with a friend? Painting Michael as if he started out as a full-fledged adult and then changed ignores the fact that he never had a chance to become an adult.

I see Michael as a social "idiot-savant." He was enormously gifted artistically, with a command of music, lyrics, his voice, and his body in dance. But with all that focus on his performing, he suffered from a complete lack of socialization. Look at the children imprisoned in Eastern European "orphanages" and only discovered after the collapse of their Communist regimes-they are incredibly disabled because they did not get crucial socialization exposure at an incredibly vulnerable time; they may never be able to catch up. Michael got stuck at about 9 or 10 "socialized years of age." That he didn't fit into our adult world should never be a wonder, just a shame.

Phileas · Jun 28, 2009, 12:16 PM

Well said, Glenn.

Spheric Harlot · Jun 28, 2009, 03:26 PM

At the risk of sounding just like those fakes so accurately described in the Free Press article above…

I've said it elsewhere: I was rather more deeply riled up by his death than I expected to be - and that was on the initial radio news snippet I heard before breakfast. I completely avoided all TV coverage.

I think I've found out why his death moves me:

I've not liked *everything* he's done, but he's been one of the most impressive artists for me - his aptitude, his talent; simply amazing.

For the past twenty years, I've really had this deep-down hope that he would be able to crawl out of his shell and give us so much more out of his incredible talent. A sense that he wasn't done yet. Sort of like how you have to wonder what Hendrix would have done, had he lived - would he have ended a washed-up ex-superstar, or would he have put out sublime masterpieces after a twenty-year leave of absence?

I *really* wanted to see him shine again.

I still think "Scream" off the "HIStory" album is in a class of its own.

I was hoping his string of live concerts would mark the end of his performing career, but kick off his studio work again.

Alas.

Shine on, Michael.

Face Ache · Jun 28, 2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

For the past twenty years, I've really had this deep-down hope that he would be able to crawl out of his shell and give us so much more out of his incredible talent. A sense that he wasn't done yet.

Or maybe he was just done. Pulp culture has a habit of moving on.

Jackson was a physical wreck who died broke, alone, on drugs in a rented house. Bloody tragic. At least Elvis owned the toilet he died on. There was never going to be a happy ending for Jackson after what he'd done to his face, his health and his reputation, let alone letting that whole sanity thing slide.

Gary Glitter won't be back either.

"It's good to be back! Oh... wait..."

I'm guessing Jackson's death wasn't accidental. If he feared going out like Elvis it's probably because he could see the writing on the wall. Could you imagine Wacko Jacko at 70? He'd make Phil Spector look damn sexy by comparison.

“because if you go through the pearly gates backwards, in a fireball, that's a cool way to die”
-Jeremy Clarkson

Spheric Harlot · Jun 28, 2009, 06:02 PM

I know.

It really makes me sad.

Andrew88088 · Jun 29, 2009, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Once again, The Free Press comes up with a very good take on a very controversial subject. Michael was indeed controversial, and a lot of that comes from the isolation from "our world" that Albom describes in his column. But what Albom doesn't really touch on is how Michael was never prepared to be part of "our world." Controlling, manipulative parents, amazing artistic success and the accompanying monetary success, a life lived in the spotlight as a child, all conspired to keep Michael from growing up.

Is a person who never really becomes a functional adult in social situations "disturbed" or merely dysfunctional? Among pre-adolescent children, "sleepovers" are both common and condoned-and what age was Michael when he became a "phenomenon?" When did he stop progressing in a typical person's timeline of social development? Giving children alcohol? What pre-adolescent child with access to his parent's liquor cabinet hasn't at least been temped to try that stuff, or share it with a friend? Painting Michael as if he started out as a full-fledged adult and then changed ignores the fact that he never had a chance to become an adult.

I see Michael as a social "idiot-savant." He was enormously gifted artistically, with a command of music, lyrics, his voice, and his body in dance. But with all that focus on his performing, he suffered from a complete lack of socialization. Look at the children imprisoned in Eastern European "orphanages" and only discovered after the collapse of their Communist regimes-they are incredibly disabled because they did not get crucial socialization exposure at an incredibly vulnerable time; they may never be able to catch up. Michael got stuck at about 9 or 10 "socialized years of age." That he didn't fit into our adult world should never be a wonder, just a shame.

I really loved what you wrote and I hope you don't mind, but I posted this as a note on Facebook. Not taking credit, of course. I just think you really hit the nail on the head and I wanted to share it with people.

ebuddy · Jun 29, 2009, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

At the risk of sounding just like those fakes so accurately described in the Free Press article above…

I've said it elsewhere: I was rather more deeply riled up by his death than I expected to be - and that was on the initial radio news snippet I heard before breakfast. I completely avoided all TV coverage.

I think I've found out why his death moves me:

I've not liked *everything* he's done, but he's been one of the most impressive artists for me - his aptitude, his talent; simply amazing.

For the past twenty years, I've really had this deep-down hope that he would be able to crawl out of his shell and give us so much more out of his incredible talent. A sense that he wasn't done yet. Sort of like how you have to wonder what Hendrix would have done, had he lived - would he have ended a washed-up ex-superstar, or would he have put out sublime masterpieces after a twenty-year leave of absence?

I *really* wanted to see him shine again.

I still think "Scream" off the "HIStory" album is in a class of its own.

I was hoping his string of live concerts would mark the end of his performing career, but kick off his studio work again.

Alas.

Shine on, Michael.

Interesting he would go at 50. I would've thought someone like Michael would go either much earlier or much later.

Rumor · Jun 29, 2009, 01:53 AM

Still the best music video of all time: YouTube - Michael Jackson - Thriller

Also, Glenn, you rock. Seriously. A lot of people just don't seem to understand that he never had a childhood. They cannot begin to comprehend the things he went through as a small child. Instead of playing with friends, he was touring. Instead of socializing in school, he saw the things his older brothers did with women and drugs.

More than anything, he was a victim of circumstance.

Before anyone ask, no. I do not believe he ever did anything lewd with children.

turtle777 · Jun 29, 2009, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Interesting he would go at 50. I would've thought someone like Michael would go either much earlier or much later.

Really ?

My take: he would not have survived the 50 concerts in London.
So one way or another: this seemed to be his year. *shrug*

-t

Kerrigan · Jun 29, 2009, 02:19 AM

I was just listening to 'Stranger in Moscow,' and that bit where he yells 'I'm getting lonely' is very chilling.

Spheric Harlot · Jun 29, 2009, 02:46 AM

What stands out about that particular song to me, unfortunately, is how they completely overdid the de-essing to give him that nasty lithp.

All that great buildup, and then

"th'DRANGER in MOth'COW…"

*sigh*

Face Ache · Jun 29, 2009, 03:13 AM

I love how he's had two autopsies. ENOUGH WITH THE SURGERY JACKSON!!!

I'd hate to be the mortician. "Can we do cheek implants and maybe a little work around the jawline?" Then, three weeks later, they'll be digging him up to get his nose tweaked.

Laminar · Jun 29, 2009, 05:09 PM

NSFW. Very NSFW.

Jon Lajoie - Michael Jackson is Dead is Today's BIG Thing in Music - JUN 29, 2009

ghporter · Jun 29, 2009, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

NSFW. Very NSFW.

Jon Lajoie - Michael Jackson is Dead is Today's BIG Thing in Music - JUN 29, 2009

Very apt, too.

Laminar · Jul 2, 2009, 12:45 PM

Michael Jordan plays basketball with some singer dude.

http://sports.todaysbigthing.com/2009/06/29

Jawbone54 · Jul 4, 2009, 10:21 PM

Since MJ's death, I've been doing a lot of reading and watched several interviews. I'm a little less convinced of the molestation charges than I previously was.

Whether or not there was truth to the rumors, I'm sure we'll never be 100% certain. One thing remains: the guy was friggin' good at what he did.

OldManMac · Jul 4, 2009, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Since MJ's death, I've been doing a lot of reading and watched several interviews. I'm a little less convinced of the molestation charges than I previously was.

Whether or not there was truth to the rumors, I'm sure we'll never be 100% certain. One thing remains: the guy was friggin' good at what he did.

I've never been convinced they were factual. MJ, as I've said many times before, was a little boy in a man's body, and, having never grown up in an adult world, saw nothing unusual in having kids around him.

Jawbone54 · Jul 4, 2009, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

I've never been convinced they were factual. MJ, as I've said many times before, was a little boy in a man's body, and, having never grown up in an adult world, saw nothing unusual in having kids around him.

Yeah...

I remember reading a bit where a psychologist around 2003 stated that Jackson didn't fit the mold of a pedophile in the slightest because he was basically a regressed 10-year-old.

Andrew88088 · Jul 4, 2009, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

I've never been convinced they were factual. MJ, as I've said many times before, was a little boy in a man's body, and, having never grown up in an adult world, saw nothing unusual in having kids around him.

That's always been my gut instinct regarding the entire molestation accusations.

Big Mac · 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

NSFW. Very NSFW.

Jon Lajoie - Michael Jackson is Dead is Today's BIG Thing in Music - JUN 29, 2009

Well done.

He's was a superb world-wide entertainer in the 1980s and a tragic figure most of the time since then. Yet, I don't think that any amount of parental abuse or growing up as a child star is enough to cast the blame on others for his poor choices. No one but he demanded all that destructive plastic surgery. No one but he chose to spend so much of his fortune to the point that he died hundreds of millions in debt. It also definitely seems like he wanted to be a suspected molester since he continued being associated with children in strange ways after the initial accusation made headlines.

ghporter · Jul 5, 2009, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Yeah...

I remember reading a bit where a psychologist around 2003 stated that Jackson didn't fit the mold of a pedophile in the slightest because he was basically a regressed 10-year-old.

I totally agree. As I said above, he never had a chance to really become an adult, and that kept him from becoming anything but a little kid socially and emotionally.

Big Mac · Jul 5, 2009, 11:27 AM

I don't know if I buy it, truthfully. I think that's the way he wanted to paint himself at times, especially when the molestation allegations were flying, but contrast that to how he wanted to be seen as a father. A boy who never grew up wouldn't want to have children and be a father to them.

ghporter · Jul 5, 2009, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

A boy who never grew up wouldn't want to have children and be a father to them.

No, but maybe he wanted playmates?

Doofy · Jul 5, 2009, 11:41 AM

I never bought into the Jacko being a perv thing. I reckon it's simply a case of him liking being around kids and the rest of the population projecting their "adult" issues onto him.

I've seen this kind of thing many, many times. Even here. I say I date a lot of girls, someone then accuses me of sleeping around (because in North American contemporary adult speak, "dating" ends with the canoodling rather than the gentlemanly goodnight kiss). Much projection going on with Jacko's kiddie interests - people who can't see purity assuming that nobody else can either.

For the record, I don't reckon Glitter is guilty of half the stuff he's been accused of either.

Big Mac · 12:23 PM

Interesting perspectives. I think it's more likely than not that he molested kids (if not, $20 million is a lot to pay in what can only be termed hush money), but it was never substantiated so objectively one does have to accord him the benefit of the doubt. Still, what terrible handlers he had who allowed him to continue holding sleepovers kids after the initial accuser came forward.

You know, they could have found him adults who were really juvenile in temperament to play with, or they could have at the very least video taped the sleepovers, or had parental supervision and waivers to sign, anything so that he would have had some protection against blackmail. The fact that no such precautions were taken really prove to be perplexing if one wishes to buy into his innocence.

Face Ache · Jul 5, 2009, 05:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO1v8t1FLOI

^Michael Jackson at 17, singing One Day in Your Life.

I wish we could remember him that way.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 5, 2009, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Interesting perspectives. I think it's more likely than not that he molested kids (if not, $20 million is a lot to pay in what can only be termed hush money), but it was never substantiated so objectively one does have to accord him the benefit of the doubt.

Frankly, I think that simply shutting up the allegations with 20 million dollars is an act of desperation that says absolutely nothing about whether they are true or not.

So many court cases in America are settled out of court even if unjustified simply because it's far cheaper and quicker than having to finance a drawn-out lawyer-fest.

KeyLimePi · Jul 6, 2009, 05:13 AM

I noticed FOX aired the 1991 Simpsons episode that featured Jackson last night. A good episode and, I think, a nice tribute.

::maroma:: · Jul 6, 2009, 12:07 PM

MJ's arcade room in panorama:

www.pinsane.com PINORAMA: - michael_jackson_arcade_entry.xml Panoramic Picture

Wow!

Laminar · Jul 8, 2009, 09:57 AM

Dakar V · Jul 8, 2009, 10:00 AM

Oh come on, no Billy Mays?

SpaceMonkey · Jul 8, 2009, 10:09 AM

Wait, Michael Jackson died?

Laminar · Jul 8, 2009, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Oh come on, no Billy Mays?

Hey, I don't create content, I just repost it or reply snarkily to it.

Dakar V · Jul 8, 2009, 10:16 AM

...and I don't care who creates it, I'm going to bitch at anyone who posts it without comment.

The Godfather · Jul 16, 2009, 12:09 AM

OMG
Sensational video of Michael Jackson's hair catching fire is revealed | The Sun |News

Eriamjh · Jul 16, 2009, 07:49 AM

Michael Jackson Death Hoax

Michael Jackson Faked his Death

Somewhere, are he and Elvis playing cards?

Eriamjh · Jul 16, 2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

OMG
Sensational video of Michael Jackson's hair catching fire is revealed | The Sun |News

This commercial was being filmed by multiple cameras at the time. Where is the rest of that footage? In 1984, it might have been too graphic to release, but this is the internet. There is nothing too graphic!

Dakar V · Jul 16, 2009, 05:05 PM

I just love that there had to be someone out there sitting on this (at Pepsi?) who was like "Well, MJs dead, time to dig this sucker up and release it."
Took, what, a week and a half?