[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

You're confused about the meaning of the word "empire." No one in Egypt or Greece or Judah thought of themselves as Romans, but they knew they were subjects of the Roman Empire.

And the US doesn't need to collect tax, as their economic interests are meet by buying cheap oil and selling military hardware, which is much more lucrative.

This post is so incorrect on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Just FYI - I think the US should cut defense spending by 50% and withdraw from all foreign soil.

I know this is not the normal conservative position, but we simply can't afford this stuff anymore, regardless of its merits.

It is the normal conservative position. (Limited engagement overseas, I mean.) We just haven't had normal conservatives lately.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

It is the normal conservative position. (Limited engagement overseas, I mean.) We just haven't had normal conservatives lately.

Not since 9/11. When George W Bush was running in 2000, one of his campaign promises was to bring the US back to pre-WWI isolation.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Not since 9/11. When George W Bush was running in 2000, one of his campaign promises was to bring the US back to pre-WWI isolation.

Exactly.

[Athens]

My bet is the Republicans will force Obama to make use of the 14th amendment then use that as a excuse to attempt to impeach him.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Yes, I've put screamer on ignore a long time ago. That drivel is a waste of bits.

-t

Normally I just use self control and not get caught up in the trolling, but his posts are so off the wall that the forums just look better having him on ignore. He is literally the only person I have on my ignore list.

[besson3c]

I guess I'll have to find new ways to be off-the-wall then!

I accept your challenge.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

You could try non-stop attention-whoring and thread-crapping...

No, wait. That's already your thing.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

This post is so incorrect on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

Don't strain yourself by pointing them out.

[Daddylonglegs2011]

The last U.S. default caused an interest rate hike that added $6 BILLION to U.S. debt, PER YEAR | Movement for the People

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Welcome to capitalism. Though I would argue that America has never been an empire.

You're a cultural empire.
‪Rammstein - Amerika‬‏ - YouTube
I think you're just on the edge of the fade.

[Doc HM]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Oil is cheap. By volume, it's cheaper than any other household product you buy. Even after it's refined into a product you buy, like gasoline, it's still cheaper than any other household product you buy.

I'm just waiting for the first country the US "invades" for their printer ink. Man that stuff makes oil look as cheap as, well, oil.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

You could try non-stop attention-whoring and thread-crapping...

No, wait. That's already your thing.

Hello sunshine!

[turtle777]

...brought to you straight from the place where the sun DOES NOT shine

-t

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Though I would argue that America has never been an empire.

Are you out of your mind? We have a military presence in more than 150 nations...

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Are you out of your mind? We have a military presence in more than 150 nations...

Do I really need to explain the basic premises of an empire? The US doesn't even get the first major sign of an empire correct, and never has: A monarch who rules through exclusive power. Also, sorry to point this out, every first world country has a military presence in hundreds of countries, and most second and third world countries do too.

I could agree more with the idea of a cultural empire, but I would suggest that America has had a huge sphere of influence around the world, especially post-WWI that has been fading rapidly.

[Big Mac]

An empire isn't predicated on the existence of an absolute monarch, mitchell.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Also, sorry to point this out, every first world country has a military presence in hundreds of countries, and most second and third world countries do too.

British Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bundeswehr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Deployments of the French military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Athens]

Even Canada has troops all over the place. Some places just a few observers while other places major military forces.

Afghanistan
Cyprus
Sierra Leone
Sudan
Arabian Sea
Horn of Africa
Persian Gulf
Jerusalem
Libya
Kosovo
Syria
Lebanon
Israel
Haiti
United States
Congo
Egypt

[imitchellg5]

I wasn't referring to military deployments. If you have an embassy, you have foreign troops or agents on your soil.

[Lateralus]

Please just stop.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Please just stop.

That's what she said.

[Lateralus]

[turtle777]

Another day passed, and still nothing remotely close to a solution.
I'm beginning to think that Aug 2nd will come without a solution in place.

I would welcome it. Yes, it would have disastrous consequences. But it would clearly show what a financial cluster**** the US has become. An extension of the debt ceiling would be just kicking the can down the road.

Let's wake up from this nightmare, face reality, and clean up this mess.

-t

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Please just stop.

What is your problem?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Another day passed, and still nothing remotely close to a solution.
I'm beginning to think that Aug 2nd will come without a solution in place.

I would welcome it. Yes, it would have disastrous consequences. But it would clearly show what a financial cluster**** the US has become. An extension of the debt ceiling would be just kicking the can down the road.

Let's wake up from this nightmare, face reality, and clean up this mess.

-t

That kind of thinking just amazes me. Currently at this moment the mess is fixable. And I don't see any problems with Obama's plans which is some cut backs on spending and some tax breaks being removed. Its a balanced approach. Instead you would rather sink the US economy, create billions of additional costs in interest which will require future and higher debt ceilings and higher interest rates on borrowing for all levels, from the person to the business to the city to the State governments. Something that could cause another round of bankruptcies, lost jobs, more housing defaults. For what? Its like saying lets fix the crack in the wind shield by smashing the entire thing just to have to put it all back together again. Your thinking is flawed on many levels.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I would welcome it. Yes, it would have disastrous consequences. But it would clearly show what a financial cluster**** the US has become. An extension of the debt ceiling would be just kicking the can down the road.

I agree. Hopefully defaulting will finally kick people awake to the fact that our current path is untenable.

[Athens]

There wont be a default on any debts. What will happen is a lot of people and businesses wont get paid. Many of them the most vulnerably in society. And Stock markets will crash, and interest will go up even though the debts will still be paid. The republicans will take the full blame for this.

[Kerrigan]

So, back on track here...the US is not 6 days away from default. This is purely a scare tactic designed to force Republicans to raise taxes.

The problem is that Republicans aren't buying it. And neither are the bond markets, apparently.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

So, back on track here...the US is not 6 days away from default. This is purely a scare tactic designed to force Republicans to raise taxes.

The problem is that Republicans aren't buying it. And neither are the bond markets, apparently.

A scare tactic that apparently every major financial institution happens to be in on, then.

[Kerrigan]

But, in case I'm wrong--get your Armageddon gear ready, and find the nearest bomb shelter to hide in!

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What is your problem?

Currently, the inability to admit he is wrong here.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What is your problem?

I don't know... Something about watching you, for years on end, post without actually ever backing up your thoughts with even a tiny bit of research gets a bit... tiring.

*shrugs*

[imitchellg5]

Uh. What kind of research needs to be done to know that nations have embassies in other nations? And if you'd take the time to look up the definition of an empire, you'd note that the United States is not indeed an empire.

[Lateralus]

The kind that allows you to distinguish the difference between ambassadors and active military personnel.

Just stop, really. I can't stand arguing with another rich white kid who's convinced himself that American military presence abroad over the past half century doesn't constitute imperialism. Phrases like 'policing the world' were created with the sole intent of conning people of your social class into thinking we're doing something other than attempting to further our own interests.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

So, back on track here...the US is not 6 days away from default. This is purely a scare tactic designed to force Republicans to raise taxes.

The problem is that Republicans aren't buying it. And neither are the bond markets, apparently.

The debt limit is the game Republicans are playing, not the Democrats.

The Republicans want to play the debt limit game again in about 6 months.

Do you seriously think there are no consequences to not raising the debt limit?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

The kind that allows you to distinguish the difference between ambassadors and active military personnel.

Just stop, really. I can't stand arguing with another rich white kid who's convinced himself that American military presence abroad over the past half century doesn't constitute imperialism. Phrases like 'policing the world' were created solely with the intent of conning people of your social class into thinking we're doing something other than attempting to further our own interests.

Uh, what? I know the difference between ambassadors and active military personnel, thank you very much. Further more, I'm not rich (I'm under the poverty line, actually), how do you know I'm even white, and I'm sorry that you apparently can't be bothered to head on over to wikipedia and read their article about empires, which even speaks about this very debate. You're being quite presumptuous.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Let's wake up from this nightmare, face reality, and clean up this mess.

You can't clean up this mess Turty. It's too big.

Suggest drop the "we" (i.e. people in the US) and look to your own (i.e. make sure you're going to ride it OK). Serious.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Uh, what? I know the difference between ambassadors and active military personnel, thank you very much. Further more, I'm not rich (I'm under the poverty line, actually), how do you know I'm even white, and I'm sorry that you apparently can't be bothered to head on over to wikipedia and read their article about empires, which even speaks about this very debate. You're being quite presumptuous.

Look... I'm in the middle of a 30 Rock-a-thon on Hulu, hitting through a case of PBR. So I don't care about you or the fact that everything I accuse you of has been validated over the years through your own postings. But if you happen to be of 'ethic' lineage and of a lower class household upbringing, please feel free to refute yourself now.

And, yeah, stop interrupting my evening's activities - this show is funny. Wish I'd paid attention to it before now.

[Doofy]

And I'm sorry Mitch but ask any foreigner in the know whether the US is engaged in imperialism or not and you'll get the same answer. You're just plain wrong on this one.

[Athens]

Corporate Imperialism to which the US government is its puppet.

[Lateralus]

Lateralus, knock it off. If mitchell has to report you again for saying what you want in the Pol Lounge, you're gonna get a slightly sterner talking to!

[Lateralus]

Sorry.

[imitchellg5]

Somebody is turning into Liz Lemon...

I feel like you didn't read what I wrote earlier:

I could agree more with the idea of a cultural empire, but I would suggest that America has had a huge sphere of influence around the world, especially post-WWI that has been fading rapidly.

Similar in concept to an empire no, but not technically an empire, because, well, America doesn't fit the definition of an empire.

[Lateralus]

When you take tests that have multiple choice questions, do you tend to only read the first option before deciding on an answer? Certainly looks that way.

[imitchellg5]

I wonder how you got made a moderator.

[Lateralus]

[Cold Warrior]

Really?

[ghporter]

Political agendas that focus on improving relations with other countries can be seen differently from differing points of view. For example, the US spends quite a lot of money on training foreign military forces-in things like maintaining hardware, building and managing logistics programs, etc., as well as in basic leadership and organization. This is what most of the "look at how the Americans are training torturers and coup leaders!!!111!" schools do - teach basic, professional skills, not combat skills. The point is to produce what are called "professional" military organizations, as opposed to "armed mobs in uniform," which is the default state of most underdeveloped nations' forces. The expectation is that such professionals will be more likely to behave in certain ways, making them less likely to participate in internal or external aggression. It actually works pretty well in most cases.

Is that imperialism? Was it imperialism to put bases in the Philippines, where the locals around the bases adopted American culture (or at least some of it) for the purposes of making tons of money (relatively speaking) off the GIs? Or was that a side effect of having forces close enough to where they might be needed to combat what was expected to be massive attacks from Communist countries?

I've been stationed in two very poor Central American countries, Panama and Honduras. Compared to Honduras, Panama is rich... But in both places the local people wanted to learn English from me, wanted to adopt US styles and customs, etc., because they wanted to have the options and opportunities we portray as "the American dream". I certainly didn't force anything on them. And I only managed to pick up a tiny bit of Spanish because most of the people I interacted with wanted to speak English with me, not teach me more Spanish.

From my perspective, whether someone was in the background, wringing his hands and cackling about "my plan is going perfectly" or not, it was a situation of the locals "pulling" our culture rather than one of us "pushing" it.

Is it imperialism if others make deals and adopt culture and customs for their own purposes?

[Doofy]

Tell me again how the US came to have a military base in Panama Glenn.