[loki74]

Okay heres my situation:

1) I am making a short film.
2) This short film will have guns. And guns being fired.
3) I dont know jack sh!t about guns.
4) I don't have enough money to pay $100 a pop for blank-firing guns

As such, I've decided that Airsofts may be a good idea. But it raises some questions. Now I've emailed ShortyUSA with these questions, and have recieved no reponse. I really don't personally know anyone who knows this stuff for sure, so I figured I'd ask my good friends here at the NN. These are my questions:

1) I know there are some laws about taking off those orange caps. If the guns are not loaded and not being transported, can the orange caps be legally removed? It will look too rediculous if our guys are weilding guns being all serious and stuff...and the weapons have orange tips.

2) Based on the browsing I've done, spring guns are the cheapest. Is it possible for the trigger on a spring gun to be repetitively pulled while there is no ammo in the magazine, AND without cocking the gun after each shot?

Any knowledge on this matter would be much appreciated.

tanks in advance,
-loki

[itistoday]

Pick a gun that doesn't shoot anything at all and take off the orange cap. That's all you need, special fx will take care of the rest.

[moonmonkey]

Airsoft guns operate the same when unloaded and loaded (except it doesn't fire anything).

[loki74]

a gun that doesnt shoot anything at all? I didnt know there was such a thing... (that is, a gun that looks real but doesnt fire anything) Where would I acquire such an item?

The only categories at ShortyUSA are gas, spring, and electric, and all the searches ive done for prop guns, etc turn up either expensive blank-firing guns or cheap toys that are prohibitively fake-looking...am I missing something here?

[ghporter]

Some of them fire plastic pellets-quite forcefully. That's a big issue, and gun safety applies to everything that even MIGHT LOOK LIKE a gun, so you NEED someone on your crew who actually does know quite a lot of crap about guns for everyone's safety.

And you need (and I mean NEED) to be in touch with the local police BEFORE you get started filming. There are a number of actual cases where people with non-guns were mistaken by police for having REAL guns and lost their lives for it. And the cops were RIGHT! Most of these shootings involved the idiot pointing something that looked very much like a real gun at a police officer. Get with the police long before you start so they know what you're doing, how you're doing it, and where you're doing it. If they have someone you can visit to talk to about your film GREAT! Do that. You'll be a lot safer because of it.

I worked on a student film once. I got shot doing it, both on film and in real life. Let's just say that pea gravel and a revolver can be a bad combination, particularly if you haven't sealed the open end of the revolver's cylinder, or the open end of the barrel BEFORE the pistol gets rolled around in said pea gravel. After that incident (and the very minor but scary injury I sustained), I got to be the armorer for the film, and nothing bad happened after that because I have a vivid imagination and recent, painful experience to base it on.

[jebjeb]

I play Airsoft every two weeks. Fantastic sport and much better than paintball.

In answer to your questions,

1) not sure about your laws in the states but I am damn sure that the orange ends can be removed as that is what they do when playing the game on a official site.

2) It all depends on the weapon you have. Spring Airsoft weapons (normally referred to as "springers") have to be cocked for each shot. If it wasn't cocked, you could pull the trigger over and over and it would do nothing.

Again, it depends on what type of weapon you want to use in your film. The most realistic will be pistols. There are four types of pistols;

- Springers which I have explained (and they suck)
- Gas non-blowback - these are semi auto (occasionly full auto) which means they will fire a shot for each time you pull the trigger without you having to do anything in between shots. Filled with a can of special gas.
- Gas blowback - the best for your cause as these do the same as above but the slide (top part of the pistol) kicks back every time you shoot, just liek a real pistol. These look great on camera.
- Electric blowback - same as gas blowback but, you guessed it, runs on batteries.

If you are after rifles, there are only a few (and very expensive ones) that show any moving parts (such as the cocking handle flying back with each shot) so these may not be so useful for you.

I will make a video on my Glock pistol firing for you today and post it.

As Glenn and other said, be careful and make sure everything you are doing is safe and legal.

[jebjeb]

Here we go. Firstly, I had only just woken up on Sunday morning so I look a bid bedraggled! Secondly, I was shooting my back fence and was aiming at different place so the pellets wouldn't deflect into my neighbors yard.

This one shows the Glock firing a few single shots and then (this is the Glock 26C which is one of the few-full auto pistols) switching to Automatic and doing a few 3-4 round bursts.

Glock firing on semi-auto and full-auto

This last movie shows what happens when the magazine is empty and the pistol is fired. Like the real-steel versions, the slide locks back to indicate it is empty. Then I hold down the slide lock so that the slide will return to normal even when the pistol is fired whilst empty. For your film, you would need to lock the slide lock down probably with a drop of super glue or changing the internals of the mechanism.

Glock firing whilst empty

Let me know if you need to know anything else.

[loki74]

jebjeb--WOW, thanks a LOT. I guess I'll be looking into some gas/electric blowback guns. Once again, thanks--the vids and explaination were a huge help, very nice of you to take the time to do that!

ghporter--yep, I have been planning on contacting local law enforcement. We will be shooting on a few acres (I think) of open desert. One of our people's parents own that land and its supposedly pretty out of the way, so hopefully we wont have any trouble with people seeing us and mistaking our guns as real ones. Nonetheless however, (as you said) it is something that should always be done, so I will be contacting them soon. (once we know exactly what date we are filming).

[jebjeb]

No probs, Loki.

Best thing to do is look at some of the Airsoft forums for sale section. I buy most of my stuff off forums here in the UK. Can generally get them for around 50-70% of retail price for used items.

Good luck and let me know if you need any more advice on what to get.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by jebjeb

I play Airsoft every two weeks. Fantastic sport and much better than paintball, IMHO

Fixed.

[jebjeb]

Very dangerous thing to do. By adding 'IMHO' to my someones post suggests that anything not mark as such is fact rather than opinion. We all know that isn't true!

I think it is obvious that anything I post is my opinion of what I believe to be true.

Geting back to the topic at hand, why do you prefer paintball to airsoft? I prefer Airsoft over paintball because;

- More realistic (weapons, magazine changes etc)
- cheaper (I get a bag of 5000 rounds for around £6.00 whereas paintballs at a site will cost you the same but for only 100 or so balls)
- hurts less
- more accurate and better range and consistancy of shot
- no expiry date on ammo
- no messy stopages from broken balls
- runs on batteries (rifles) rather than gas
- rate of fire

This very subjective but I also find the people who play Airsoft to be a bit... nicer. Many of the guys I have met playing paintball go mainly to just hurt people whereas the guys I have met playing Airsoft are after a bit more fun and strategy. Probably just the people I have run into.

I guess in both sports you will find wankers and geardos (guys with so much gear it isn't funny). I saw one bloke playing airsoft who took FIVE pistols plus a rifle out on a game. Di*khead!

Let me know why you like paintball and you may be able to persuade me to go and play it again .

Anyway, I think an Airsoft pistol will be the best solution for the OP.

[King Bob On The Cob]

I don't care to persuade you, I just hate airsoft's style of play. Way too slow. Plus At the fields I played at wiping in paintball was alot less problematic than people claiming they didn't get hit in Airsoft.

[jebjeb]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob

I don't care to persuade you, I just hate airsoft's style of play. Way too slow. Plus At the fields I played at wiping in paintball was alot less problematic than people claiming they didn't get hit in Airsoft.

Fair enough. I guess we like different things out of the two sports.

I'm sure that we could agree on one thing and that is it sure is fun shooting people! (in a non-harmful or fatal way before people think I am a pyscho).

[olePigeon]

The appealing thing about Airsoft are the guns and stuff. They look fun. But paintball is more hardcore.

Someone should recreate the Dust map from Counter-Strike in real life.

[ort888]

My friends and I made a film in high school and we spray painted neon orange toy guns black.

We did get the cops called on us. We were out on the street at about 8pm and our neighbor didn't know what the hell we were doing for hours and called the cops on us. We all had fake guns. We set them down on the ground and were completely honest. It could have been bad, but it wasn't. The cops were totally cool about it.